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24 Aug 2007, 07:29
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#101
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Good Son
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veil05
Killmark.
I wish he'd come back
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He was back at one point. For one round, he was a pretty good DC. The next round, he was given his own group of mongs with a responsibility over, and a while into that round he was insisting on engaging a "test war" with Howling Rain (who expanded three times the numbers in his attack group), while the rest of the alliance was bickering with ND. Made me go mental.
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24 Aug 2007, 09:41
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#102
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NE
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 828
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
He was back at one point. For one round, he was a pretty good DC. The next round, he was given his own group of mongs with a responsibility over, and a while into that round he was insisting on engaging a "test war" with Howling Rain (who expanded three times the numbers in his attack group), while the rest of the alliance was bickering with ND. Made me go mental.
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He was in my BP r21, but he was ubber inactive. If hes coming back though ill gladly take him back in :P
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PEACE.
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24 Aug 2007, 22:09
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#103
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LDK
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,220
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
He was back at one point. For one round, he was a pretty good DC. The next round, he was given his own group of mongs with a responsibility over, and a while into that round he was insisting on engaging a "test war" with Howling Rain (who expanded three times the numbers in his attack group), while the rest of the alliance was bickering with ND. Made me go mental.
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hehe, what a fun night
The logs from #instinct ( omen hc chan ) from that round got to be full of quality / whining and fighting.
but yeah, I ll sign the fact that u went mental there - also
Best HCs I ve had are almost all .lt I think. zerocore, lrytas, kaifux.
And Silverbullet
__________________
[Omen]
Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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25 Aug 2007, 00:54
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#104
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Miles Teg
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,192
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Re: Favorite HC
Sid was a good HC, Tesla too ofcourse, Rampage should get a mention, but why is noone mentioning
butter
__________________
Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
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25 Aug 2007, 01:38
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#105
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Sir peon to you
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 275
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Re: Favorite HC
Jurgen and lizardking for being people you could admire and damn good fun at the same time. Oh, and for having the stamina to go a whole round that I never had!
My complete lack of any dealings with Sid make it impossible to comment on him. My experiences with Zhil/Cayl left a very positive mark though. Yes even Zhil!!! (anyone that good at risk must be great at PA)
__________________
Šragon to the Death!
"The only easy day was yesterday."
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25 Aug 2007, 05:03
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#106
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Holland is GVD het HARDST
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Holland!
Posts: 39
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Re: Favorite HC
Mactanzu (if i wont name him i m probably not welcome in finland next year), AD and Nitina where good hc but there can only be 1 #1 and thats Kaifux..
__________________
WHEN THEY THINK WE ARE HISTORY, WE WILL SHOW THEM THE FUTURE -=i am youre alpha and youre omega=-
WP SiN eXilition 1up CT SubH Ascendancy Apprime
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25 Aug 2007, 05:30
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#107
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Holland is GVD het HARDST
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Holland!
Posts: 39
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
Sid for me was THE best hc. I don't think anyone could be close.
I don't think I have ever worked under Kaifux, but I hear great things about him. However, I guess thats one thing I will never know from personal experience as I doubt he would ever take me even if I wanted to.
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heh.. that was what i was also wondering.. did every1 who mentioned sid played also with kaifux?
ive played with both and sid was good but kaifux was far better
__________________
WHEN THEY THINK WE ARE HISTORY, WE WILL SHOW THEM THE FUTURE -=i am youre alpha and youre omega=-
WP SiN eXilition 1up CT SubH Ascendancy Apprime
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25 Aug 2007, 11:17
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#108
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1up on you
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 4,007
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inforza
heh.. that was what i was also wondering.. did every1 who mentioned sid played also with kaifux?
ive played with both and sid was good but kaifux was far better
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How many rounds, and which ones did you play under sid?
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pig
[ 1u p]
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25 Aug 2007, 15:21
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#109
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Stealth & Shadows
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 192
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Re: Favorite HC
How quickly you all forget.
Wipeout (Anoubis years), Grendal (Vts years), Sid (Fury years), Bigdogg (Wolfpack years), Storebo (Adelante years), Morden (Kralizec,Stealth&Shadows years).
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25 Aug 2007, 15:47
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#110
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I see you!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin
Storebo (Adelante years)
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No offense bo, but Adelante was a big, big, big failure.
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25 Aug 2007, 15:52
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#111
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Stealth & Shadows
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 192
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Re: Favorite HC
Adelante was a success as both a galaxy and an alliance, it had the very best of the Kralizec BG, Orignal elysium adelante BG, and the former VtS memberbase that had chosen to not go to fury or quit, its only failure was to ally to idiots in Fang and LCH who for the whole round did nothing but sit and die.
This left us with very few options and we decided to spend the rest of the round with Fury for their final bidding.
As a galaxy, you know it was one of the best that ever did it.
The records are their for anyone to see that.
You sir, are a fool, and in the immortal words of Mr.T " I pitty the fool "
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25 Aug 2007, 16:02
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#112
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I see you!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
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Re: Favorite HC
I was speaking about Adelante the alliance, not the BG and certainly not the galaxy (should be obvious as this is about HC's (hint: galaxies have no HC)) As an alliance it went to hell, but apparently you live in denial if you think the alliance was a success.
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25 Aug 2007, 16:04
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#113
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Stealth & Shadows
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 192
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Re: Favorite HC
Its worth pointing out to you we had most of the top 20 at the time you claim we "went to hell" :P
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25 Aug 2007, 16:06
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#114
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I see you!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
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Re: Favorite HC
Adelante disbanded only few weeks into the round, a great success right there!
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25 Aug 2007, 16:10
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#115
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Stealth & Shadows
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 192
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Re: Favorite HC
As i said we joined Fury, due to the fact our allys were useless and the blocks were allready formed, we had achived as much success as we could have solo, and soon the attention of the larger more active blocks would have turned to us, the choice to take the larger planets to Fury was one of the finest command choices in the history of the game.
When taken in context, it improved and saw to maintain the playing expirance of the adelante member base, and when looking at what makes a HC great, isnt providing the best possible gaming expirance to your members exacly what its about?
I can see our relationship hasnt changed in some 5 years nadar, i expect many fun threads out of you (-;
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25 Aug 2007, 16:16
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#116
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I see you!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
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Re: Favorite HC
You all didn't join Fury, only a small core did. Most people/wings spread to many different alliances. You can't put the blame on your allies. Picking allies is a part of being successful as an alliance. Adelante started the round with the intention to win, but they fell flat on their arse and failed miserably - that's as far away from success as you can possible get.
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28 Aug 2007, 14:10
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#117
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Inquisitor
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: England
Posts: 2,207
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inforza
heh.. that was what i was also wondering.. did every1 who mentioned sid played also with kaifux?
ive played with both and sid was good but kaifux was far better
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Yes, it's a relatively obscure fact that portions of eXilition had 1up roots from the previous rounds.
Even from what I've heard I'd still rate Sid above Kaifux. Sid has been the nexus of the political scene in Planetarion for a very long time. During Fury and 1up days he was central to decisions for every alliance (as noone competeting could ignore what Sid decided to do)
I'd say Sid was ruthless, but in the latter days he wasn't willing to compromise a few things to win. (For example, like building a block with 1up to defeat eXilition from the get go) Kaifux on the other hand seemed to be very much like Sid's early days.
Sid was a key component in the creation of the power/superblocks and in their ending to the degree we saw in previous rounds.
__________________
----------
That uniform you're wearing
So hot I cant stop staring.
Zhil
[Spore] Executive
[1up]
[Fury]
Inquisitorial Lord Protector of His Emperor's Glorius Empire
[20:19:04] <mazzelaar> I have to say a big up to Zhil - without those 8 def calls you covered we would've been screwed. | r12 End Ceremony
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28 Aug 2007, 14:13
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#118
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.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,382
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin
Bigdogg (Wolfpack years)
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lol
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28 Aug 2007, 14:19
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#119
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Good Son
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inforza
heh.. that was what i was also wondering.. did every1 who mentioned sid played also with kaifux?
ive played with both and sid was good but kaifux was far better
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I've played with one (although for this case you can't say he'd been "my high commander"), and I've worked (as a high commander of my own alliance, on terms of alliance cooperation and politics) with both, and I can't say either, even though they're both great at what they do, would've had a major impact. That's not denying they're both brilliant, that's saying perhaps the time has made my memories regarding the early days more precious.
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29 Aug 2007, 22:02
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#120
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The Face Of Evil
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: #t&p
Posts: 684
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veil05
Commanding and earning are 2 diffrent things i guess.
1 - elviz (never actually in his alliance, but his BG ran like a classic timepiece)
2 - Morden
3 - Killmark
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;-) ello m8, hows you?
__________________
"The enemy to be feared, is the one that wears the face of a friend"
Hasimir Fenring
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30 Aug 2007, 01:43
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#121
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Filtheh
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 186
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Re: Favorite HC
Legator, AndroX, Kaifux, Sid - all great in different ways!
__________________
[G-II] [VsN] []LCH[] [Reunion] [eXilition] [Subh] [1up] [Angels] [Jenova] [p3nguins]
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22 Sep 2007, 07:40
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#122
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 138
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Re: Favorite HC
1. Kaifux - Organizing
2. BaSSe - Politics
3. Cartman - Intel
4. bwmtc - Politics
5. NitinA - Head DC
These are probably the best HC's I've had the honor to play with, there are things left out in this thread. You can't just judge a HC from his own actions - the eXil HC over time are probably the best cooperating HC we have seen atleast after PaX (I'd say of all times), the effort some put in to making eXil a 24/7 driving wheel in the rounds I played (r13/15) is to say the least impressive and the way it all worked out together is nothing but superb, which is something I really admire Kaifux for, he was the one that gave speeches and always held the ally together aswell as keeping the command strong, cooperative and more or less perfectly organized which made eXil as strong as it really is and was.
You wouldn't really know how great eXil was without being in it r13/15 (tho I didn't play the other rounds, so I can't judge) but constant talking in the rooms while numerous defcalls each night kept rolling in, sure as hell kept our spirits through the round - and made eXil a great place to be a part of.
I'd also like to mention MacTanzu and ricka, although I do not know them aswell and their area of expertize I do know Mac did a great job the other rounds, and ricka is playing every now and then - not quite sure how many rounds he played now. R13 > *
Also MacTanzu and elviz did an ace job in pinkRabbits bg which joined Angels, it had its obvious reasons to fail and some things went wrong, but overall a great team effort from the pinkRabbit command and to Asssasin for showing some of the same dedication and pace almost all the commanders I listed have, and should truely be noted if you play with any of them.
Remember HC'ing etc is an team effort (which ofc rest of ally is aswell), Sid and Kaifux are great organizers, but I'd say Kaifux on his top days are slightly better, but I can't really tell as I never played under Sid.
And Zh|l honestly, we'd beat you 1on1 any day. Just give it up already, R13 eXil > R11 1up
In R15 Kaifux made sure he could take a more laid back attitude as to what was going on, he truely dedicated himself to R13 and got burnt out, the way he played it out again in R15 I'd say proves Inforza's point about Kaifux being a better leader then Sid is.
__________________
[ VtS \ RaH \ Phraktos (Protected) \ eXil \ Ins (dS) \ Subh \ Omen ] [ Šragons ]
"Veni, Vidi, Dormivi" - I came, I saw, I slept.
Last edited by SkyHead; 22 Sep 2007 at 07:46.
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22 Sep 2007, 07:48
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#123
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 138
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin
How quickly you all forget.
Wipeout (Anoubis years), Grendal (Vts years), Sid (Fury years), Bigdogg (Wolfpack years), Storebo (Adelante years), Morden (Kralizec,Stealth&Shadows years).
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Agreed, I played under Biggdogg and Grendal.
But game mechanics are way different now, I wouldn't compare this game to the old game. (6hrs def ftw )
From 3ticks vs 6ticks in big battles to 1tick vs 1tick, see a certain twist of dynamics?
Learn, adapt, change.
Sid rocks tho
__________________
[ VtS \ RaH \ Phraktos (Protected) \ eXil \ Ins (dS) \ Subh \ Omen ] [ Šragons ]
"Veni, Vidi, Dormivi" - I came, I saw, I slept.
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22 Sep 2007, 10:22
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#124
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NE
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 828
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
;-) ello m8, hows you?
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Hi Morden!! come back im sure i had you on my MSN and uve seem to have vanished u best not have blocked me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakin
Bigdogg (Wolfpack years)
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How exactly would you know? Its your favorite HC. Not HC in which you have heard is best via word of mouth.
__________________
PEACE.
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22 Sep 2007, 12:04
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#125
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHead
Remember HC'ing etc is an team effort (which ofc rest of ally is aswell), Sid and Kaifux are great organizers, but I'd say Kaifux on his top days are slightly better, but I can't really tell as I never played under Sid.
And Zh|l honestly, we'd beat you 1on1 any day. Just give it up already, R13 eXil > R11 1up
In R15 Kaifux made sure he could take a more laid back attitude as to what was going on, he truely dedicated himself to R13 and got burnt out, the way he played it out again in R15 I'd say proves Inforza's point about Kaifux being a better leader then Sid is.
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I'm just going to have to take issue with some of this. You admit that you never played under Sid (and we all know about you keeping your anti-1up spirit strong), but still feel able to place Kaifux above him on the organising side - yet organising is something that you can never truly evaluate without having been in an alliance with someone.
As for claiming that R13 eXil would beat R11 1up, it's impossible to know that and it's ludicrous to take a stand either way. It's generally accepted that 1up's strongest round was in Round 11, and that they just didn't bring it to the table in Round 13 (pre-round preparation, etc).
Finally, your point on burnout: eXilition cunningly avoided true burnout by never playing consecutive rounds while 1up were at their peak. 1up played Rounds 11-18 straight, and although eXilition's players might have still had planets every round, they didn't play at eXilition-level most of the time.
__________________
Finally free!
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22 Sep 2007, 12:28
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#126
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Don't make me declare war
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,913
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Re: Favorite HC
Also, quite a few Exi planets used to be 1up, so how exactly could you compare?
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22 Sep 2007, 13:41
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#127
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30
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Re: Favorite HC
Quite hard to compare alliances in different rounds, if not impossible. But fact is that eXilition always had huge respect for 1up. Being a worthy enemy that made a lot of our members put into extra effort in beating.
Regarding politics, this has always been a part of PA, and perhaps what makes it most interesting. I seem to remember 1up being quite active on that part time in r13, the only round I played against it. The Sid name has built up quite a reputation in PA world, and a lot of HCs etc feel flattered to be contacted by such powers.
Flaming your enemies will never get you anywhere. Something which most 1up shown aswell. An alliance has a lot higher chance of sucesss if the general PA player and HC has positive thoughts about your alliance and see its crew has skills, but still able to be modest and kind towards their peers.
When we created eXilition. A lot of our hcs/memberbase had at some time either been fighting the 1up/Fury command, been under their command or both. We saw it as a well run alliance and based much of our initial structure on their ideas of leadership and quality memberbase. In my opinion Kaifux, Bwtmc and the next generation of eXi hcs evolved these ideas further. But that`s just my biased opinion.
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eXilition
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22 Sep 2007, 14:51
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#128
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Ministry
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Norway
Posts: 48
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Re: Favorite HC
I was very impressed of Kaifux when i was in eX r13, so it has to be him along with my hc for many, many rounds, Tesla.
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-Hugin
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22 Sep 2007, 20:33
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#129
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 138
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
I'm just going to have to take issue with some of this. You admit that you never played under Sid (and we all know about you keeping your anti-1up spirit strong), but still feel able to place Kaifux above him on the organising side - yet organising is something that you can never truly evaluate without having been in an alliance with someone.
As for claiming that R13 eXil would beat R11 1up, it's impossible to know that and it's ludicrous to take a stand either way. It's generally accepted that 1up's strongest round was in Round 11, and that they just didn't bring it to the table in Round 13 (pre-round preparation, etc).
Finally, your point on burnout: eXilition cunningly avoided true burnout by never playing consecutive rounds while 1up were at their peak. 1up played Rounds 11-18 straight, and although eXilition's players might have still had planets every round, they didn't play at eXilition-level most of the time.
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1up grew to dependant of Sid, eXil didn't in R15, we had nights and weekends where Kaifux was gone and he'd come back worried because we did so great without him.
Ofcourse its impossible to know, but I think some 3 or 4 rounds proves my point even though they never brought the same players to the table, eXil never were dependant on those players, but I must agree it takes away an edge of 1up and adds it to eXil, I'm not exactly sure which players you are talking about, either way it sure was nice to have you aboard. As I had better overview in R15 and we had maybe 60-70 applicants with an playerbase of already 50 players I'll only ask myself why didn't 1up have that? (and whatever happened to the eXil is Ð/LDK bandwagon) Which round are you talking about Forest? R13 eXil > R11 1up might have been a bold statement, but I stand by it.
Not playing consecutive rounds was a command decision for R13>14 and then back again in R15, it never was "part of the plan". I can't remember what happened in R15>16 but R17 and 18 was played consecutive and I don't think that was to prove anything but to ourselves. Also R15 clearly wasn't the easiest round for us, still remember Tesla grinning and was just waiting for our downfall. But our stamina showed them otherwise.
As for this round I have no idea as to whats going on, but it seems very nicely played and although most say the victory might have been handed out to eXil I don't think it could've been done in a much better way then it has already played out. Job well done, once again.
As for my anti 1up spirit, it was all in good sport, and I think the people who were in my BG and knew me would know that, and I might aswell add that alot was taken out of context. My only failure was trying to run it by myself and not quite reaching Jonas as he was to insistent to not being run as eX he'd decline an obvious good idea when it came along. Jonas is alot like Sid for Insomnia, whilst imo other HC's (under his command) should've been granted more power like for example Mek. If Mek had greater influence, and I got a bigger opportunity along with Bee to run military aswell as adding 1 or 2 to run dS with me things might have been different for Ins that round. I never saw it before it was to late, so in a way I did the same mistake as Jonas did, but mostly I'd listen to my members. Which is one of the reasons I'd rather see Mek with more power, as he listens within his command, Jonas didn't. Don't get me wrong, Jonas is still a good HC, but he is one stubborn ******.
__________________
[ VtS \ RaH \ Phraktos (Protected) \ eXil \ Ins (dS) \ Subh \ Omen ] [ Šragons ]
"Veni, Vidi, Dormivi" - I came, I saw, I slept.
Last edited by SkyHead; 22 Sep 2007 at 20:54.
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22 Sep 2007, 22:59
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#130
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Drunken Boozer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 298
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Re: Favorite HC
[ToT]Marduk .o/
__________________
Geilheit ist KEINE Schande !!!!
! [ToT]-KC !
Äscendäncy, we got Penis inside!
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22 Sep 2007, 23:02
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#131
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Sleepless n00b
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 30
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Re: Favorite HC
Now I haven't been around many rounds.
But during my time in the PA community I must say the HC's I have had best experience with gotta be.
*Kaifux (fantastic leader and easy to chat with and handles any problem very well)
*Sid (haven't seen as much from him as from Kai, but from what i experienced in r17 when we cooperated with 1up, he seemed like a good leader)
There are also alot other HC's that nead mentioning, Pathogen for his way of handling Internal Affiers the rounds I've HC'ed with him.
The whole eXi HC team. And ofc, R17 InS HC team.
__________________
[VEN] - [InS] - [ToF] - [eX] - [DeS] - [SPQR] - [NoX] - [VsN] - [Aud] - [ND] - [p3n] - [App]
Ruining Varok's short moments of fame since r16
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23 Sep 2007, 10:42
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#132
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Favorite HC
Sid is a clear number one for me.
Not only is he a excelent leader when it comes to military and internal stuff, but he also got a lot of respect from his peons and co HC it seems. You can argue with him on certain stuff, but if you get out of line he will spank you. If you break the rules you will be punished, and not forgiven easily.
Fellah is also a very good HC if he would be active.
SnowSeal
other that could be mentioned mazz,zhil,androx,basse
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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23 Sep 2007, 13:54
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#133
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PornStar
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 96
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Re: Favorite HC
Barrow - His Lemmingruns are famous, best landings ever! - Legendary
Wakey - For having a long stamina for so many rounds - Respect
__________________
'Oops i did it again..'
Soaring where Angels fear to Fly
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23 Sep 2007, 14:16
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#134
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 846
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Re: Favorite HC
a hc is nothing without decent members
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23 Sep 2007, 15:32
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#135
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
a hc is nothing without decent members
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Disagree, a 'good' HC is good no matter how decent their members are.
__________________
Finally free!
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23 Sep 2007, 15:55
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#136
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Disagree, a 'good' HC is good no matter how decent their members are.
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More the opposite.
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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23 Sep 2007, 16:01
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#137
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NE
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 828
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
More the opposite.
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Wrong, Lets use football as an example.
If Jose Mourinho went to another club now, would he any less of a manger just because he doesnt have Romans Billions? No.
He would still more than likely make a success of his team.
__________________
PEACE.
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23 Sep 2007, 16:56
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#138
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 295
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Re: Favorite HC
SethMace from HR. Reason is: In r5 he were sick for awhile, and activity went below par (even for hr at that time). When he came back, then the other members magically appeared on irc again. Strange how much a person can do by only chatting a bit when onine, and saying hi m8, nn m8 etc
Personally i think most of'em were in love, but i still cant prove it
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23 Sep 2007, 17:28
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#139
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Hired Thug
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Central Illinois USA
Posts: 894
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Re: Favorite HC
A good HC makes their members better, and the reverse is also true. Good players can only carry mediocre HC so far, sooner or later the diaper starts to smell
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Anatidaephobia is the fear that somewhere in the world, there is a duck watching you......
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24 Sep 2007, 02:23
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#140
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Evil inside
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,631
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Re: Favorite HC
SethMace a good hc?
ROFLMAO
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<Germania>but you called Fury a bully, and that is terribly unfair
<Hicks>Occassionally individuals do things without Executive consent
<Dreadnought>You cant whois on Eclipse server without a registered nic, which mr ****stirrer doesnt have.
<Almeida> well i like to grow fat myself too, and when i have enough ships then i can engage in big battles
<Nantoz> Zhukov for Lord Protector!
<Jakiri> (Windows)XP was fine on release
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24 Sep 2007, 15:31
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#141
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veil05
Wrong, Lets use football as an example.
If Jose Mourinho went to another club now, would he any less of a manger just because he doesnt have Romans Billions? No.
He would still more than likely make a success of his team.
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In opposite i ment what duckster just said.
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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25 Sep 2007, 13:29
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#142
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Rebellion Rebelleader
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Apeldoorn / Amsterdam
Posts: 330
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veil05
Wrong, Lets use football as an example.
If Jose Mourinho went to another club now, would he any less of a manger just because he doesnt have Romans Billions? No.
He would still more than likely make a success of his team.
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It is interesting you should use the football coach analogy as i think it is a very good one.
As with football coaches a HC depends largely on the playerbase that he has, but he will have to make his playing squad better in order to succeed. A HC also has some but limited control over what kind of players he can attract to the alliance. Therefor we judge HC like we judge football coaches.
When looking at how we judge football coaches we do take playersquad in account, but more then that we take in account prices. A coach has to get prices before he is considered top class. A coach that gets the utmost out of his players but never won a price is merely good, not top class. A coach that doesnt get everything out of his team but still wins prices is really a bad coach, but he is still considered to be decent. In other words without a price you will never be considered top class.
For examples i want to refer to the (slightly biased) Times top 10 coaches of all time
1. Rinus Michels
2. Matt Busby
3. Ernst Happel
4. Alex Ferguson
5. Bill Shankley
6. Bob Paisley
7. Brian Clough
8. Bela Guttman
9. Miguel Munoz
10. Arsene Wenger
Of these 10 coaches only 3 didnt win the CL and all of them won multiple Domestic Championships. You could even say that Bob Praisley wasn't a very good coach at all. He just finished what Shankley started. Appearently prices are very very important when judging who is a good coach. But another interesting issue is the fact there is not a single coach who won the WC, so prices arent everything.
Basically the dull and expected outcome of this post then is that yes HC can be good when they dont have decent members, but they need wins if they want to be considered top class.
Which is why Kaifux and Sid are mentioned so often.
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NiNEONE
we look a lot tougher then we are
<zhil|reportwrit> Rikard - I dont know you
<zhil|reportwrit> so you're insignificant
eXilition - LCH - Destiny - Conspiracy - Night Witches - eXcessum
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25 Sep 2007, 13:37
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#143
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikard
Basically the dull and expected outcome of this post then is that yes HC can be good when they dont have decent members, but they need wins if they want to be considered top class.
Which is why Kaifux and Sid are mentioned so often.
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That doesn't detract from his (and my) point that you can be a good HC without winning rounds. What you tend to find is that good managers demonstrate their skills at lesser clubs, and then move to bigger clubs that have more of a chance of winning the title. The same is true for HCs: a HC of a 'softcore' successful alliance is more likely to be accepted to a bigger 'hardcore' alliance and given an officer position sooner rather than later, which can then lead to a HC promotion.
Alternatively, the HC can set up a new alliance, which is something you don't see in football
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Finally free!
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25 Sep 2007, 17:54
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#144
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Rebellion Rebelleader
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Apeldoorn / Amsterdam
Posts: 330
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Re: Favorite HC
indeed it doesnt detract from your point, but that was never the aim of the post. The aim was to show that to make that step from good to topclass you need to have preformed at a top alliance and won.
So i think we kind of agree with eachother on this?
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NiNEONE
we look a lot tougher then we are
<zhil|reportwrit> Rikard - I dont know you
<zhil|reportwrit> so you're insignificant
eXilition - LCH - Destiny - Conspiracy - Night Witches - eXcessum
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25 Sep 2007, 19:43
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#145
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Hired Thug
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Central Illinois USA
Posts: 894
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Re: Favorite HC
using Football coaches as a reference (I'll use American Football) is a decent way to illustrate the point, but you have to take into account that there are different kinds of coaches, just like there are different kinds of HC.
Don Shula won more Professional Football games than any coach in NFL History. This would not have been possible if a number of things weren't in place, and as he did have a lot to do with drafting the players he coached over his 30+ years of coaching (so much as he had a great deal fo influence, and also served as the Miami Dolphins General Manager over the years) hisd success wouldn't have been possible without drafting the players, for example Larry Csonka, Mercury Morris, Bob Griese, Jake Scott, Dick Anderson, Paul Warfield, Larry Little, Bob Kuechenberg, Manny Fernandez, Nick Buonticonti, Jim Mandich...Then later of course Dan Marino, Mark Duper, Mark Clayton, Richmond Webb, Kieth Sims...He put these players together and created teams of players that won consistantly for a number of years, and still today are ther only team in NFL history to complete a season undefeated. A HC can also, put his star players in place, to create a base for success. Don Shula was a strict tactician, expected mistake free football, no penalties, good execution, and ruled with an iron thumb over his teams. We have HC that run their alliance in much the same way. Sid for example. (as I've never worked with kaifux and don't know him personally, I won't use him as an example). We have HC's who are strict tacticians, ands generally in PA, much like in football, they tend to be your most successful HC's where winning is concerned. You could use Paul "Bear" Bryant from Alabama, Bo Schembechler from Michigan in much the same light, and in those examples you could even make a closer comparison because they got new players on 4 year rotations so they had to work in new people to a winning tradition. These types of coaches, just like HC, have a playbook, and the player conforms almost immediatly to "get with the program" or the don't last.
The next kind is the true leader. This is a HC or coach who has the ability to motivate people, to exceed their abilities and go the extra mile, and put in the extra effort to success. Generally the Strict tactician achieves this by confidence from his players and his tradition of success, tbh the "true leader" doesn't always have the guns but those teams generally over achieve because they want to do well for that HC/coach. The true leader isn't neccesarily a strong tactician, and may not even be strong in the "execution" but has players that would generally follow them through fire simply because those players know that HC/coach will kill themselves for each and every one of them no matter the circumstances. You can see this type of HC all over PA's history, as there have been a good few of them. They may not have always won, but their alliances generally over achieved, and players follow them no matter what.
Every so often you have an HC that possesses both the above qualities, and generally, you can probably count these HC's on one hand.
Then you have your HC's that are good in certain areas, and make a quality HC team strong. They may be a great politician, a great defense organizer, a great attack organizer etc. They may not possess the abilities to do all well, but they stay with 1 strength and excel at it. A strong HC team needs this type of HC, as they make sure the day to day operations of PA are taken care of. This is a different level HC as the above mentioned and without these workhorses an alliance will have a tough time.
Finally, you have the HC that is so in love with themself and the idea of "being in command" but just doesn't possess the qualities neccesary to deliver on a day to day basis. They are also frequent in PA's history. They are power hungry, talk a great game, but when the time comes to deliver they simply fall short. They jump at every command position they can get their hands on, usually move around a lot, and never leave a history of success in their wake, moreso they leave distruction and failure.
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Anatidaephobia is the fear that somewhere in the world, there is a duck watching you......
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26 Sep 2007, 08:57
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#146
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The Face Of Evil
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: #t&p
Posts: 684
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
a hc is nothing without decent members
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I always saw it as the "hc" attracts members of similar strengths and abilities.
Good HC attracts good members, because the members know they can trust in the abilities of the command team. without that trust, no matter how good the members are, or how good the command is, the alliance will not function.
They're one and the same, its how alliance core's are formed.
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"The enemy to be feared, is the one that wears the face of a friend"
Hasimir Fenring
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14 Apr 2008, 21:21
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#147
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that one dude
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 200
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Re: Favorite HC
dory
kargool
VGN command team
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14 Apr 2008, 22:27
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#148
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I see you!
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In any girl
Posts: 2,825
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Re: Favorite HC
How much did Kargool pay you to say that?
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14 Apr 2008, 23:05
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#149
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BlueTuba
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
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Re: Favorite HC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
I always saw it as the "hc" attracts members of similar strengths and abilities.
Good HC attracts good members, because the members know they can trust in the abilities of the command team. without that trust, no matter how good the members are, or how good the command is, the alliance will not function.
They're one and the same, its how alliance core's are formed.
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That depends entirely on whether they start the alliance, or ascend within it. Because actually, they are two very different situations. Although you would say starting your own alliance is the true yardstick of how good someone is, as that alliance initially rests on their reputation - no one elses.
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"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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15 Apr 2008, 11:55
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#150
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ND
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Amazingstoke
Posts: 2,235
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Re: Favorite HC
Grog.
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[ND]
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