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Unread 18 Mar 2006, 01:12   #51
Kjeldoran
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
A major factor in this is that most large angels planets are planet-napped to the bigger alliances. Hardly something to be proud of.
I'm a large Angels planet, I don't have a single planetary nap with anyone nor did I ever had any, yet I'm top100 in value.
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Unread 18 Mar 2006, 01:42   #52
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
I'm a large Angels planet, I don't have a single planetary nap with anyone nor did I ever had any, yet I'm top100 in value.
He said "most" not all.

Is every Angels player going to come here and tell whether he/she has a nap or not ?
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Unread 18 Mar 2006, 11:54   #53
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I think I know better what we decide then you don't you ?
I'm more saying that you remeber wrong. You did hit us cause we had hit you, but after that we naped, and I sure as hell know that ND weren't hitting you after that cause we were busy with Angels first, and then eXi. Then you hit us, and that's the time The_Fish is talking about. (correct me if I'm wrong cider boy )
Besides, from what I heard, it was like you hit us a few times those first nights, Angels start faultering and we get some of our fleets heading towards your planets, and the next day LCH want an end to this. So then a NAP was made, which you broke.
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Unread 18 Mar 2006, 12:20   #54
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

you seen my planet name this round Buly?

Anyways, this has been gone over many many times. fact is we hit eXi first (with plenty of help) and then eXi/LCH/VGN/HR/Subh etc hit us hard back, LCH had a nap with us and didnt tell us it was ending.
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Unread 18 Mar 2006, 12:44   #55
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desse
He said "most" not all.

Is every Angels player going to come here and tell whether he/she has a nap or not ?
If not I'm more than up for speculating ;-)
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Unread 18 Mar 2006, 14:49   #56
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
you seen my planet name this round Buly?

Anyways, this has been gone over many many times. fact is we hit eXi first (with plenty of help) and then eXi/LCH/VGN/HR/Subh etc hit us hard back, LCH had a nap with us and didnt tell us it was ending.
Think I just found it

And yes, that's also my picture of how it happened.

Ace, you're partly right but also wrong. Yes, you did hit us saying it was because we hit you, but this was during our Angels war, and not after you had broken the nap. Ask AkMaster, I recon he remembers and give him my regards while you're at it.
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Unread 18 Mar 2006, 16:21   #57
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
I'm a large Angels planet, I don't have a single planetary nap with anyone nor did I ever had any, yet I'm top100 in value.
no you are not :P
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Unread 18 Mar 2006, 18:59   #58
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Actually, a lot of people got roided and quit (so didnt attack at all).

Nice of them to be so gutless whilst the command/officers had worked damn hard to get them into a good position with a chance of winning.

True that Fish
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 07:00   #59
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas
I dont think it was, hence why I wrote it. eXilition can go on forever about who were and were not their allies, HR and LCH definatley were at some point, and im most certain xVx took targets for eXilition aswell...

However that wasnt the point, was pointing out that most of the eXi allies are doing crap now(there are more than the ones I mentioned) which in a way is just saying eXilition made em good.

moooo
lol i think you'll find LCH was around BEFORE eX, and finished 2nd on numerous occasions So saying that eX made us good is kinda silly? I think stating that LCH rely on eX is abit far fetched, but i think its fair to say that LCH and similar allies do have a easier time when eX is around mainly because eX take alot of the heat from 1up.
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 07:01   #60
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I'm quite disappointed with Ely - I thought they'd be bigger contenders this round
Agreed, when i heard them playing i thought they'd have alot more support and play a larger part than they did. Specially considering i know how fun their forums are
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 08:47   #61
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buly
errr....I remember this quite well since I had an LCH HC in my gal. And I didn't want ND and LCH fighting since we had our hands full.

You hit us first before eXi did, this was while we were fighting Angels, saying it was because we hit you, so we hit you back back. After hitting eachother a few nights (or was it just one), we had a nap so the hostilities ended. Then you guys broke it without warning, and when I remember Grog telling me you guys had told him later it was because you wanted a more even war. You thought it was wrong that people ganged up on eXi like that. Personally, I think that's not the whole reason but I won't go into that.

But yes, you broke the nap, and you hit us.
If your gonna brake a nap why would you tell about?
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 11:07   #62
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spetzer
If your gonna brake a nap why would you tell about?
Because you have the slightest prediliction of honouring agreements and not being a set of backstabbing twats? It's common courtesy to inform a NAP partner, in advance, about the cancellation of the NAP. This, therefore, shows you can be a trusted party and any future working together will be based upon trust and both parties are more likely to unite to achieve a common goal.

Breaking NAPs without notification just breeds bad blood and limits political options in later times.
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mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 11:50   #63
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

I'm failing to see why any alliance should care about being backstabbed. Yes it's inconvenient and doesn't help an inch but all it does is ruin someone else's credibility and that was their choice and thus beyond your control.

Considering we are all in alliances that purport to act in their own best interests, it's hardly surprising, is it?
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 12:44   #64
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Considering we are all in alliances that purport to act in their own best interests, it's hardly surprising, is it?
An alliances best interest go beyond the immediate future. An act of any kind will carry on over into subsequent rounds and could well come back to bite you in the ass.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 12:55   #65
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
An alliances best interest go beyond the immediate future. An act of any kind will carry on over into subsequent rounds and could well come back to bite you in the ass.
Building back credibility is easier than building back a chance to win for some people.
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 13:04   #66
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Building back credibility is easier than building back a chance to win for some people.
Credibility often is part of your chance to win. Doesn't matter how you try and spin in, screwing an alliance over is the far harder/politically unsound option than a simple pm or mail outlining your desire to end the status of NAP. The clever bit is the timing of such things.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
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mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 17:26   #67
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Because you have the slightest prediliction of honouring agreements and not being a set of backstabbing twats? It's common courtesy to inform a NAP partner, in advance, about the cancellation of the NAP. This, therefore, shows you can be a trusted party and any future working together will be based upon trust and both parties are more likely to unite to achieve a common goal.

Breaking NAPs without notification just breeds bad blood and limits political options in later times.
Still dont c the point of it. If you are going to break nap with some1 why should you do it peacefull way? because breaking the nap means you probably need to take some action´s on them.Why wouldnt you take all benefit from it? You probably wont get naps with them later on , but thats the risk you migth need to take?
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 18:01   #68
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Credibility often is part of your chance to win. Doesn't matter how you try and spin in, screwing an alliance over is the far harder/politically unsound option than a simple pm or mail outlining your desire to end the status of NAP. The clever bit is the timing of such things.
If you need to hit them, politeness isn't an issue. Might as well just get on with it.
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 18:05   #69
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
If you need to hit them, politeness isn't an issue. Might as well just get on with it.
100% agree.
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 18:20   #70
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spetzer
Still dont c the point of it. If you are going to break nap with some1 why should you do it peacefull way? because breaking the nap means you probably need to take some action´s on them.Why wouldnt you take all benefit from it? You probably wont get naps with them later on , but thats the risk you migth need to take?
Then thats a stupid risk to take just for the sake of PM. You think ND are hungry to be working with LCH following on from whatever happened before? Do you think if some cooperation had arisen at some point there would be a trust there? How about if they decided, because of past events, to backstab you this time effective stopping you winning something?

If you're happy to shoot yourself in the foot then so be it.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
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mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 18:25   #71
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
If you need to hit them, politeness isn't an issue. Might as well just get on with it.
Stop being deliberately obtuse.

It's got nothing to do with politeness and everything do with potentially creating a difficult political situation for yourself when there is absolutely no need. Whats to say events won't transpire requiring a need to work together again in some form for mutual benefit at some other point in a round? I'd tell you to shove it up your arse if you had that attitude with 1up.
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 19 Mar 2006, 19:10   #72
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Stop being deliberately obtuse.

It's got nothing to do with politeness and everything do with potentially creating a difficult political situation for yourself when there is absolutely no need. Whats to say events won't transpire requiring a need to work together again in some form for mutual benefit at some other point in a round? I'd tell you to shove it up your arse if you had that attitude with 1up.
you're hitting them already, do you think effectively saying "sorry, I hope you don't mind if we twat you now but hey come help us later" is going to help by any stretch, considering you've probably ended their winning prospects? Don't you see such an approach as somewhat taking the piss?

If ND are forced to work with LCH, both parties won't have much of a choice. Quite frankly, LCH made a canny decision and got their rank. Alliances like ND and LCH aren't in a position to be choosy they have to put their differences aside, or they know they'll both get owned. As for 1up, I wouldn't expect your help and neither exiliton's - if you can't win, you're a pair who will cut off their nose to spite their face, you aren't in the business of getting the best ranking possible. Other alliances are in a position where they have to get the best achievement they can, so unlike you, there is freedom to manoevre and a lot more mutual necessity. The other thing is that if a middling alliance and 1up had a nap, the likely situation is that the middling alliance would have to destroy 1up.

Even so, such a scenario rarely happens. Being ND that round and on the receiving end of LCH, I have no problem with it - they made the best decision for their alliance and got a good ranking as a result.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 08:34   #73
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
you're hitting them already, do you think effectively saying "sorry, I hope you don't mind if we twat you now but hey come help us later" is going to help by any stretch, considering you've probably ended their winning prospects? Don't you see such an approach as somewhat taking the piss?
How am I already htiting them? This whole discussion is about cancelling a NAP "properly" prior to commencing hostilities?
How is it taking the piss? Finishing an agreement properly and under agreed terms shows you as an honourable party and that you're willing to act correctly before getting on with business. This would cause me no hesitation to work with said party again if there was a benefit to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
If ND are forced to work with LCH, both parties won't have much of a choice. Quite frankly, LCH made a canny decision and got their rank. Alliances like ND and LCH aren't in a position to be choosy they have to put their differences aside, or they know they'll both get owned. As for 1up, I wouldn't expect your help and neither exiliton's - if you can't win, you're a pair who will cut off their nose to spite their face, you aren't in the business of getting the best ranking possible. Other alliances are in a position where they have to get the best achievement they can, so unlike you, there is freedom to manoevre and a lot more mutual necessity. The other thing is that if a middling alliance and 1up had a nap, the likely situation is that the middling alliance would have to destroy 1up.
It's about how you work together. Mistrust breeds contempt and if you can't work properly together then you've scuppered your own chances anyway. The kind of act LCH pulled would probably mean in a situation where LCH entirely relied on ND to win the round they're probably going to get short shrift.

You're also right, we're not in the business of getting the best ranking possible but we've already shown if we have a preferred winner then we're more than willing to help out. In your scenario you've just allowed your alliance to be left to hang out to dry as far as 1up is concerned. No doubt it doesn't matter though because we couldn't possibly make a difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
Even so, such a scenario rarely happens. Being ND that round and on the receiving end of LCH, I have no problem with it - they made the best decision for their alliance and got a good ranking as a result.
And the bad blood between the two is a perfect example of why it was a dumb thing to do. LCH could've hit the same targets after a proper end to the NAP as ND were busy with eXilition and still achieved that rank.
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mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 09:43   #74
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

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no you are not :P
Ohh do shut up !!
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 13:13   #75
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

eeerrrr it's funny so many ppl here talk about a LCH/ND thing that happened last round and both ND and us say the same thing. the other broke the NAP.

It's all fine and dandy you guys talk about stuff but without the facts you got nothing but rumours to go on.

And for the "bad blood" part, it's old news old round we don't hold grudges.
Wish more ppl would
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 14:16   #76
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
And for the "bad blood" part, it's old news old round we don't hold grudges.
Wish more ppl would
I never said LCH were holding a grudge but it seems you fairly pissed off ND
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mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 14:44   #77
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

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Originally Posted by mazzelaar
I never said LCH were holding a grudge but it seems you fairly pissed off ND
Looks like it
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 15:21   #78
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Then thats a stupid risk to take just for the sake of PM. You think ND are hungry to be working with LCH following on from whatever happened before? Do you think if some cooperation had arisen at some point there would be a trust there? How about if they decided, because of past events, to backstab you this time effective stopping you winning something?

If you're happy to shoot yourself in the foot then so be it.
Well if i decide to back stab some1. I probably wont turn my back on them after that.
And dont have a clue how the alliance´s will cooperate after that. But its just my opinion that i´f i would be canceling some nap i´d take all benefit from it.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 15:31   #79
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
And the bad blood between the two is a perfect example of why it was a dumb thing to do. LCH could've hit the same targets after a proper end to the NAP as ND were busy with eXilition and still achieved that rank.
As im aware we hit ND in the end of round. So why in the earth would you break the nap nicely and give ND a "warning" that something isnt rigth.
Think the benefit from attacking them is at least 25% bigger if they dont have a clue that an alliance is gonna hit them with full force.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 15:37   #80
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spetzer
As im aware we hit ND in the end of round. So why in the earth would you break the nap nicely and give ND a "warning" that something isnt rigth.
Think the benefit from attacking them is at least 25% bigger if they dont have a clue that an alliance is gonna hit them with full force.
Spetzer your a nice guy but this part of the discussion is the part you have no info on
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 15:38   #81
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
Spetzer your a nice guy but this part of the discussion is the part you have no info on
The organ grinder speaketh
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

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mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 15:39   #82
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
Spetzer your a nice guy but this part of the discussion is the part you have no info on
its Bretty mutch all same is the Info about ND/LCH fact or not. The main conversation is about breaking a NaP.
LCH/ND is just and example as far as i c.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 19:57   #83
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
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The organ grinder speaketh


aarrggg I thought you liked me
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 20:42   #84
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
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aarrggg I thought you liked me
I do

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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

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mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 21:02   #85
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

I've never been in an HC position (god help the alliance that had me there) but I always thought there should be a 24/48 hour agreement before breaking any NAPs (agreed when the NAP was formed).

Of course if an alliance wants to break this, they can - but in the interest of honorable play and wanting to treat others as you wish to be treated, you'd hope most alliances wouldn't.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 21:28   #86
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I've never been in an HC position (god help the alliance that had me there) but I always thought there should be a 24/48 hour agreement before breaking any NAPs (agreed when the NAP was formed).

Of course if an alliance wants to break this, they can - but in the interest of honorable play and wanting to treat others as you wish to be treated, you'd hope most alliances wouldn't.
The problem is that the 24/48 hr nonsense is unenforceable and quite frankly a waste of bloody time. Why you should trust a future enemy (who's almost certainly about to launch stacks at you) because you both decide to be "honourable" I don't know. Cut the crap and get on with it, I say.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:12   #87
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I've never been in an HC position (god help the alliance that had me there) but I always thought there should be a 24/48 hour agreement before breaking any NAPs (agreed when the NAP was formed).

Of course if an alliance wants to break this, they can - but in the interest of honorable play and wanting to treat others as you wish to be treated, you'd hope most alliances wouldn't.
The problem is that this is a layover from blockism. If breaking an agreement is a big deal, then the agreement is a big deal. They shouldn't be. HC should keep on cordial relations, and discussing the breakings of agreements on good terms is a good way to keep agreements as small things, mallable, useful and made to be broken.
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Unread 20 Mar 2006, 22:12   #88
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

I love how this game causes people to hate each other for no apparent reason.

E.g. 1up trippin' over Ascendancy's win, - pld. Banning all Ascendancy members from their #public channel. Real mature, guys. Real mature.

But I guess its really what keeps us playing

Anyway, back on topic. This round hasn't really, from what I've seen or heard, been all that political. We've had no major noticeable wars, and if there has been, it's completely gone beyond my attention. The only real political issues as such that I've noticed is everybody complaining about something thats not really well-worth anyones time complaining about. E.g.Ascendancy. But thats not really politics. Thats just whining.

This round was a game of warmongering on small scale rather than politics.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 00:14   #89
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illmaticks
I love how this game causes people to hate each other for no apparent reason.
Sadly true.

Quote:
E.g. 1up trippin' over Ascendancy's win, - pld. Banning all Ascendancy members from their #public channel. Real mature, guys. Real mature.
The problem is when a couple of us go in there acting like dicks, what do you expect. We've been pretty cheeky as it is.

Quote:
But I guess its really what keeps us playing
It is nice to see people aghast at our strategy - I don't see what's especially wrong with it, the main difference is that we seem to be more committed to it than other alliances. My main motivation however, is quite simply, finishing off the job because that's what competent PA players are there for.

Quote:
Anyway, back on topic. This round hasn't really, from what I've seen or heard, been all that political. We've had no major noticeable wars, and if there has been, it's completely gone beyond my attention. The only real political issues as such that I've noticed is everybody complaining about something thats not really well-worth anyones time complaining about. E.g.Ascendancy. But thats not really politics. Thats just whining.

This round was a game of warmongering on small scale rather than politics.
There are sleep deprived members of ND and 1up who disagree with you in spadeloads. As wars go it was pretty knackering on the pair, and to get that much thrown at 1up doesn't happen by itself. The tiredness on ND has started to show a bit if you look at the ranking (although they did drop a member) but 1up have shown they are pretty tough. Had we not popped up out of nowhere, it might have been different. Early in the round we've had all kinds of posturing and skirmishing to get into a position in which to grab #1 and pull away, but no one was able to and that's partly why Asc has such a lead right now. ND surprised everyone with their move and it adds an extra unpredictable edge to their politics in future.

Even so in spite of this, that doesn't stop Ascendancy being a very good bunch of players, doing in what my opinion is a fantastic job, simply because our energy levels have been constant throughout the round and well, we've got a lead to show for it.

As for what Banned said - as long as HC are polite when they do pm me, I wouldn't be particularly fussed. I'm well aware that alliances do things for their own reasons and if it works for them, great because my opposition is there to make it difficult.
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 04:39   #90
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned

The EX-friendly alliances were never that strong. Subh sucks (and yet at least tried to dethrone 1up ), and got ****ed by 1up (plus lost members due to mismanagement).
A particular HC/BC/DC decided to have a round off. Shame with a bit of "magic Mushy" picking would have been fun.

As for the EX friendly thing...
not as if we kid ourselves on that we didnt get fked over from a superior ally
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 15:44   #91
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
The EX-friendly alliances were never that strong. Subh sucks (and yet at least tried to dethrone 1up ), and got ****ed by 1up (plus lost members due to mismanagement).
I really don't see where you're coming from with the "Subh sucks". For an alliance playing their 2nd round and being consistently in the top 5 you can hardly say we're sucking. Yes maybe we have lost a few members due to ship jumping but thats something we can learn from for future rounds.

In regards to the topic we did hit 1up at the start, not too successfully but at least we tried
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 17:43   #92
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
As for the EX friendly thing...
not as if we kid ourselves on that we didnt get fked over from a superior ally
How exactly?
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 20:12   #93
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

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Originally Posted by bwtmc
How exactly?
did you play the last round
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Unread 21 Mar 2006, 20:38   #94
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

totally mis-read it nevermind me!

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Unread 22 Mar 2006, 00:37   #95
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Re: Whats the political status? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illmaticks
E.g. 1up trippin' over Ascendancy's win, - pld. Banning all Ascendancy members from their #public channel. Real mature, guys. Real mature.

The #public channel is not really an important point of communication for 1up, infact, you'll probably find that very few HC really bother with the channel fullstop as it's a waste.

-I- was the person to ban Ascendancy members from the channel as frankly, I wanted to nip you all in the bud early on. I know full well what 'you lot' are 'like' and figured it was in -my- best interests to do so.

After the initial fad (and jerkoff sessions) were over, I didn't enforce the ban anylonger as it had already served it's purpose.

Although I did get a measure of pleasure from doing it.
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Inquisitorial Lord Protector of His Emperor's Glorius Empire
[20:19:04] <mazzelaar> I have to say a big up to Zhil - without those 8 def calls you covered we would've been screwed. | r12 End Ceremony
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