Planetarion Forums - Abortions illegal in the USA?

Bunga · 23 Oct 2003, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

OMG, you got it.

Which is why the rubber will stop the virus and the water.

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

So its ok to victimize someone else because you where a victim?

'let's argue about something i know nothing about'

sinnamon xie · 23 Oct 2003, 19:07

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Originally Posted by Intrepid00

So its ok to victimize someone else because you where a victim?

So it's okay to further victimize a victim?

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 19:08

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Originally Posted by sinnamon xie

So it's okay to further victimize a victim?

how DARE those girls let themselves be raped!
even more.. how DARE they not be on birth control before hand :\

sinnamon xie · 23 Oct 2003, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aryn

'let's argue about something i know nothing about'

Hehe. I should have known better than to get involved with this argument. Rational points without namecalling or with actually valid points, hardly ever happen here.

Bunga · 23 Oct 2003, 19:09

I haven't namecalled, have I?

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 19:11

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Originally Posted by Bunga

Which is why the rubber will stop the virus and the water.

Damit he lost it.

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 19:12

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Originally Posted by Aryn

how DARE those girls let themselves be raped!
even more.. how DARE they not be on birth control before hand :\

Sorry, your parents still where not thinking about you when they decided to ****. They where thinking about how great it is to ****. Clearly you should have been aborted.

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

Sorry, your parents still where not thinking about you when they decided to ****. They where thinking about how great it is to ****. Clearly you should have been aborted.

you really have no clue do you
first you're arguing that people CHOOSE to have babies
and now you're saying it's impossible that my parents did

hmmm

Bunga · 23 Oct 2003, 19:14

No... I think you lost it. Just because the semiconductor will stop the water even though it "shouldn't" in no way means that the rubber will let the virus through even though it shouldn't.

Even a "water clump" is smaller than an HIV virus, so if no water comes thorugh the rubber, no HIV can either.

acropolis · 23 Oct 2003, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aryn

how DARE those girls let themselves be raped!
even more.. how DARE they not be on birth control before hand :\

it's not against the women.

the day after she gets raped, if she knows who raped her, can she go out and kill him?

if, the day after the rape, it's illegal to kill the rapist, then why should it be legal to kill the baby? the baby didn't do anything. and don't get me started on incest.

remember that so far i've made clear that i favor abortion. i just think the rape argument is particularly crap.

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 19:17

how would you like to grow up knowing that your mother resents you.. hates your father (possibly doesn't know who he is) and that you were a result of rape

that because of you your mother's life was turned upside down, mentally scarred her, and possibly wrecked the quality of life you both could have had if she was prepared and had a child by choice?

Bunga · 23 Oct 2003, 19:18

The day after she was raped the "baby" isn't more than a few hundred cells. At most. It is in no way a "baby". One biological defenition it does comply with, however, is "parasite".

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunga

The day after she was raped the "baby" isn't more than a few hundred cells. At most. It is in no way a "baby". One biological defenition it does comply with, however, is "parasite".

which the body automatically tries to kill anyway

Uberhamster · 23 Oct 2003, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

Sorry, your parents still where not thinking about you when they decided to ****. They where thinking about how great it is to ****. Clearly you should have been aborted.

Once again, another "pro-life" hyocrite shows his true colors: your political stance is a flimsy disguise for your hatred of women.

cnaw · 23 Oct 2003, 19:23

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Originally Posted by Intrepid00

Yet you just did.

naaa. If i had bit, i would ranted and screamed at him and slapped him silly, then i would of procceded to have abused him in PM. but i didn't.

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uberhamster

Once again, another "pro-life" hyocrite shows his true colors: your political stance is a flimsy disguise for your hatred of women.

Trust me, your parents where not thinking about making an Uberhamster either. They where thinking how great is to **** eachother.

They just tell you where planned so you feel good or validiate their views on abortaion.

Bunga · 23 Oct 2003, 19:27

Possibly during the act itself, but I'm sure they started the act with the clear purpose of making a baby, though maybe not specifically an Uberhamster.

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aryn

how would you like to grow up knowing that your mother resents you.. hates your father (possibly doesn't know who he is) and that you were a result of rape

that because of you your mother's life was turned upside down, mentally scarred her, and possibly wrecked the quality of life you both could have had if she was prepared and had a child by choice?

Let me ask you this, how many famous people where adopted.

Here is a list. Now how many of them where unwanted and put up for adobtion. Clearly they should have been murdered instead. Hell, most abortistints believe those that are genetically inferer should be put to death as well. What if Stephen Hawkings parents aborted him because gentic test showed he would be gentically defective.

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunga

Possibly during the act itself, but I'm sure they started the act with the clear purpose of making a baby, though maybe not specifically an Uberhamster.

BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, don't kid your self. They ****ed cause they liked it. Everyone likes. Its in your DNA that you like it.

Bunga · 23 Oct 2003, 19:31

Where do you get the statistic that "most abortionsist want genetically inferior to bo put to death"? I can tell you its a mistaken belief.

Tactitus · 23 Oct 2003, 19:36

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Originally Posted by Intrepid00

2nd Every child deserves to be wanted. Very rich man lives around the Philly area. His mother didn't want him and put him up for adoption. He never was. He has given much back to the church because it was a Catholic Orphanage that raised him. Hell, he bought our school its network. Under you system this man that went on to do great things would have been killed before birth.

That choice would have been his mother's--not mine. She may have chosen to have him even if abortion were legal at the time. I don't know what her choice would have been; and neither do you. I only wish her to have the choice. Unlike you, I do not want to make that choice for her.

The fact that one person, who might have been aborted, did many good deeds is not a compelling argument against abortion. Perhaps others would have stepped in to fill his place? We can not predict the future nor extrapolate a world from a past that never existed. If you want to play the what-if game, what if Hitler's mother had had an abortion?

Quote:

Is that a crime, yes. Do children sometimes go unwanted, yes. Still even wanted childrend are negatled and abused.

And unwanted children are more likely to be neglected and abused.

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 19:37

i am choosing (and have for a while) to NOT have a baby.
this is my choice. i'm choosing to not have a life before it even has the potential to exist.
now if i get raped, are you saying that i am not allowed to have the choice, and that i HAVE to keep it?

acropolis · 23 Oct 2003, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aryn

how would you like to grow up knowing that your mother resents you.. hates your father (possibly doesn't know who he is) and that you were a result of rape

that because of you your mother's life was turned upside down, mentally scarred her, and possibly wrecked the quality of life you both could have had if she was prepared and had a child by choice?

the whole topic is uber emotionally charged.

but strip everything down to the actual argument you are presenting here:

It makes sense to kill me if my mom resents me and hates my father.

In addition, my quality of life would be greater had I been aborted (this is all assuming me mom was raped to conceive me).

Anyway, the obvious answer is for the child to be put up for adoption if the problem is the mother's resentment of the child.

acropolis · 23 Oct 2003, 19:42

Oh hey. Under one circumstance I can see an argument that rape makes a difference.

If the mother wasn't raped, to what extent do you think the father should have influence? It's just as much his kid etc.

And what if the woman raped the man? Should she have any influence? If he wants it aborted? If he wants it carried to term?

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 19:42

ok then
you wouldn't have existed in the first place.

this is going iwth the senario that your mother didn't want a baby (at this moment in time) and she was raped.
you simply wouldn't ahve existed if she wasn't raped.
'murdering' (as you like to call it) you when you're just a few hundred cells puts her life back on track to where it should have been.

i'm talking in the extreme case of rape i seriously believe the woman should have the choice.

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by acropolis

Oh hey. Under one circumstance I can see an argument that rape makes a difference.

If the mother wasn't raped, to what extent do you think the father should have influence? It's just as much his kid etc.

And what if the woman raped the man? Should she have any influence? If he wants it aborted? If he wants it carried to term?

i agree with you here
i've seen cases where a woman has become pregnant and hte father is overjoyed.. he WANTS the child. the woman does not and goes to get it aborted. i think that's wrong. the father in this case should have a choice as well. it takes two etc etc

if the woman rapes a man, becomes pregnant, and demands child support then she should be shot :\ (but that's just my opinion)
that one is a harder case because it's not as common and explored as the other way around.

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 19:53

here's another twist
cat and dog breeders drown/kiill kittens and puppies all the time
are you against this as well? or is it ok cause they're JUST ANIMALS?
(i think it should be illegal)

and before you jump on me.. why choose human life and not be allowed to choose dog/cat life?

because these breeders wait until tehy are already born. they are already living and breathing. at least with humans we can stop the life before it truly begins

Uberhamster · 23 Oct 2003, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

Trust me, your parents where not thinking about making an Uberhamster either. They where thinking how great is to **** eachother.

They just tell you where planned so you feel good or validiate their views on abortaion.

Those statements are unsupportable, because you obviously don't know anything about me or my parents. Your morbid interest in the sex lives of other people's parents is amusing though.

acropolis · 23 Oct 2003, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aryn

here's another twist
cat and dog breeders drown/kiill kittens and puppies all the time
are you against this as well? or is it ok cause they're JUST ANIMALS?
(i think it should be illegal)

and before you jump on me.. why choose human life and not be allowed to choose dog/cat life?

because these breeders wait until tehy are already born. they are already living and breathing. at least with humans we can stop the life before it truly begins

would it be okay to you to drown kittens and puppies if the breeders were going to then commence eating them, or are you a vegetarian?

and it's okay to kill animals cuz they are animals. it's not okay to kill people because (along with the commandment) they are people.

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 20:00

but we're all animals

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uberhamster

Those statements are unsupportable, because you obviously don't know anything about me or my parents. Your morbid interest in the sex lives of other people's parents is amusing though.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, your so full of shit. No one that is normal has 'robot sex'

Do you honestly think it happened like this

Hey Honey, I think its time we had a child.

I agree, hold on let me get my undies off.

1 minute later

Ok done, let me go get the pregancy test so we can check in 36 hours to see if our task was a sucess.

Or do you think its was like this.

Hot passionate sticky love.

I am betting on the second.

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 20:02

intrepid
i know you're not as daft as you're portraying yourself
think about what we've said about parents choosing before sex
just think about it
actualy
ask your parents
ask them if they wanted to have a child before they had you.. or are you the result of an 'accident' and are just happy they decided to keep you?

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 20:05

Sorry Johnny, the condom ripped. We could put you up for adoption but we would rather murder you and rob society of a potentially great person.

Oh Aryn, do you think your parents would admit your mistake? Good thing they didn't abort you if you where huh?

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 20:05

some of us weren't accidents intrepid
that's what you've got to get through your head

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aryn

some of us weren't accidents intrepid
that's what you've got to get through your head

Oh please, like your parents are going to say out right you where planned 100%, but instead an accident. In other words, just like I don't know what was really going throught their hormone filled minds neither do you, but I am willing to bet I have the better chance of being right.

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 20:09

they told me i was
they told my sister they weren't sure whether they wanted another child, and then decided that yes they did.
they told us both that after my sister they decided not to have any more kids
and SHOCK HORROR they haven't.

Aryn · 23 Oct 2003, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

Oh please, like your parents are going to say out right you where planned 100%, but instead an accident. In other words, just like I don't know what was really going throught their hormone filled minds neither do you, but I am willing to bet I have the better chance of being right.

you're only right because you're talking about what they're thinking DURING the act
i'm talking about what they thought out and planned BEFORE the act.

a lot of people don't plan to have children, and end up having them, yes you're right
a lot of people PLAN ahead to have children, and have them, so i'm right too

you see.. we're both right.

in fact one of my teachers planned their child to the week that it would be born (if all went right) it ended up being born a week earlier than they thought.

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 20:11

So, you where not born into this word with love. You born of robot sex? I don't think so. What if your parents decided to abort your sister since she was an accedent. I bet if they could change history they wouldn't have aborted her.

Phang · 23 Oct 2003, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

Sorry Johnny, the condom ripped. We could put you up for adoption but we would rather murder you and rob society of a potentially great person.

Sorry Johnny, the condom ripped. Well, you weren't supposed to be born; unfortunately, we have to go have an abortion to stop it now. we'd put you up for abortion, but that would screw with our lives for 9 months and cause immense pain as well as relationship traumas. Oh well, I guess you'll be deprived of life with an abusive foster family ended abruptly by a suicide when you learn you were adopted and learn that, in point of fact, nobody wants you. Oh well, shame we aren't religious

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 20:13

Why kill though when adopation is free to giveaway the child and has no strings attached. While abortaion kills a child that could go onto do great things like the man I mentioned before.

Phang · 23 Oct 2003, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

So, you where not born into this word with love. You born of robot sex? I don't think so. What if your parents decided to abort your sister since she was an accedent. I bet if they could change history they wouldn't have aborted her.

what the **** are you actually talking about. I mean, seriously here.

LHC · 23 Oct 2003, 20:17

A fetus isn't a child and a fetus can't do big things.

Phang · 23 Oct 2003, 20:17

ps, skewed metaphor time:

if you drop a glass and spill wine on a carpet, are you allowed to mop it up, or do you have to leave it as you knew the risks of drinking wine out of a glass?

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 20:19

Did you know the more Chruches a city has, the higher the crime rate?

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phang

what the **** are you actually talking about. I mean, seriously here.

What I am saying is, Aryn is full of shit. If you don't want to have the child there is a adoption where no one dies and the child, like so many famous adoptes, can grow up to be somebody famous and further advance society.

Aboration not only kills a human life, it kills a piece of future society.

Basically, what Aryn just told me is she claims she had more of a right to life then her accident sister.

LHC · 23 Oct 2003, 20:27

abortion doesn't kill human life

sinnamon xie · 23 Oct 2003, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

Let me ask you this, how many famous people where adopted.

Here is a list. Now how many of them where unwanted and put up for adobtion. Clearly they should have been murdered instead. Hell, most abortistints believe those that are genetically inferer should be put to death as well. What if Stephen Hawkings parents aborted him because gentic test showed he would be gentically defective.

Hmm let's see if we can find a list of all the people who were put up for adoption and never adopted, and contrast and compare?

I know someone who spent her entire life as a ward of the state, transferred to foster home after foster home, orphanage to orphanage.

She is an absolute emotional mess who could never deal with why her parents gave her up in the first place and never having any parents that really "loved" her.

Her common comment on her life: "I should have been aborted"

You stop abortion you will only increase the numbers of people like her.

Intrepid00 · 23 Oct 2003, 20:41

And there where plenty of people planned and not adopted that still lead ****ed up lifes? Whats your point? No one knows what the future brings and like you said she is a ****ed up mess. How do you know for sure she means it if she is not stable like you claim.

G_frog · 23 Oct 2003, 20:42

Let's do a thought experiment.

What if i get a fully concious human brain hooked up to a completely artifical support system, with inputs and outputs provided via electronic means. Is it morally wrong to turn off the support system? If yes, clearly there is something fundamental to humanity and the morality of killing in that entity.

Now, suppose I reverse the example and take a fully functional human body without a brain, with the neccesary control functions that the brain provides supplied by another entirely artificial system. The head can even be filled with neurons hooked up in a random configuration if you like. Is there a moral objection to killing this organism? if not, then there cannot be anything fundamental to the morality of killing in the entity.

Finally, suppose I take the human genome data and give it to a computer, along with data on the initial configuration of human germ cells, the relevant raw materials, a molecular chemistry kit, and a program telling it to use all this to create embryos, which will then be artificially incubated until "birth". If I do nothing, the computer will pump out an endless line of clones. Is there a moral objection to deactivating the computer? If not, then there can be no moral objection to preventing births. If the DNA was that of Einstein, and it was the case that einstein's fantastic abilities resulted from his genes, would this create an objection? Should I be allowed to leave the machine running without prospective adoptive parents?

In any of these cases should the proposed action be illegal if it is regarded as wrong?

I hope you all see my point.