Planetarion Forums

Wandows · 11 Oct 2006, 14:34

Just when i thought PA was going in the right direction i find myself in a new interesting position (i have to admit i never encountered this before).

Today was the day i decided to launch my first attack of the round, i picked my target and everything seemed to go well. The target had a nice amount of roids, my fleet got closer and closer to the target planet. But then, after a reasonably long flight i decided to check my target planet its size and value to notice it was reduced to none (from +200 roids to <20, from +60k value to <10k value). First i though i might have been unlucky and the target crashed + got roided. But being waved that heavily early in the round is just impossible.

Then i realised there is this feature called a planet reset. Which means a planet can choose to reset and have a fresh start, after waiting 24 ticks they will be reset and lose all roids/ships/researches/constructions (why they keep XP.. i have no idea). A fine feature for ppl who are stuck with choices they made that they don't like, a bitch for unknowing ppl like me who just wanted to attack a nice target. Basicly i wasted an entire fleet attacking a planet i wouldn't even had attacked if i had known it would reset anyway (and i doubt many would have).

My logical assumption on this feature would be that once planet choses to reset itself it can't get any new incoming and is reset after 24 ticks. This would save alot of frustrated attackers as they won't find their target being tiny and useless once they are about to land.

Currently a planet marked for reset can cancel this within 24 hours. The defence from the PaTeam/support side is that blocking incoming from a planet marked for reset would be open to abuse. However, this can "easily" be fixed by allowing any (visible) fleets already incoming to continue their flight, and at the same time freezing all planet features (no income, no research, no construction and no production process) and perhaps recall all fleets aswell if they are out (or they all have to be home in order to set the reset option in the first place). As a result making it pointless to 'abuse' the feature as you simply block ur own growth apart from not getting new incoming for a few ticks.

In either case i think it should be made clear to other players a certain planet is in the process of a reset, as i'd certainly not like to waste my time (and fleets) on something like this again (as i can imagine no one else would like to either).

Shyne · 12 Oct 2006, 00:40

The worry is that earmarking these planets means you can also attack with a possibility of less defence (he's resetting, he doesnt care about his planet !)

A careful balance is required.

I'd say dont make any notification, but if they receive incs then they cannot be reset until they have recalled / 24 ticks has passed, whichever occurs later.

Error · 12 Oct 2006, 00:56

Im strugelling to think of a valid reason why you would reset your planet, maybe if you hate your race buts that your fault for not readng the descriptions.

Why allow people to reset anyway, please can someone tell me a reason why anyone would reset.

coffee- · 12 Oct 2006, 02:56

So rather then feeling as though they had wasted a credit due to not having fun, they could reset as a race they want and have fun.

Kargool · 12 Oct 2006, 05:07

The reset planet option was suggested because of what coffee said, that people should be allowed to do whatever they want with their planet however they would want it.

However, planet reset should prolly be under the same rules as vacation mode. How about it being a delay for the reset and that nothing gets changed till for example 24 ticks. Your fleet gotta be home for it to be able to initiate and any attacking incoming fleets will be allowed to land. After 24 hours your planet gets reset and everyone is happy.

jerome · 12 Oct 2006, 06:18

the reset option is a good thing but wandows makes strong valid points, i like this idea from his post: "However, this can "easily" be fixed by allowing any (visible) fleets already incoming to continue their flight, and at the same time freezing all planet features (no income, no research, no construction and no production process) and perhaps recall all fleets aswell if they are out (or they all have to be home in order to set the reset option in the first place). As a result making it pointless to 'abuse' the feature as you simply block ur own growth apart from not getting new incoming for a few ticks."

Appocomaster · 12 Oct 2006, 10:03

Will fix it this evening - I think something along the lines of jerome's solution is the best option?

Judge · 12 Oct 2006, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

Will fix it this evening - I think something along the lines of jerome's solution is the best option?

erm, he was quoting Wandows

talk about getting your thunder stolen

Synthetic_Sid · 12 Oct 2006, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerome

the reset option is a good thing but wandows makes strong valid points, i like this idea from his post: "However, this can "easily" be fixed by allowing any (visible) fleets already incoming to continue their flight, and at the same time freezing all planet features (no income, no research, no construction and no production process) and perhaps recall all fleets aswell if they are out (or they all have to be home in order to set the reset option in the first place). As a result making it pointless to 'abuse' the feature as you simply block ur own growth apart from not getting new incoming for a few ticks."

Doesnt this mean that you can you use it as a short vacation mode? Can certainly see the attraction in doing this rather than vac-moding if i'm only away for one night.

Remy · 12 Oct 2006, 17:32

Sid, youre right, so this also has to be addressed :/
Maybe, like, if you cancel the rest, your planet will be not reset, BUT you will have to wait till 72 ticks inactivity, just like vacation. It will be harder for ppl to decide to rest, but it will also prevent abuse

Heartless · 12 Oct 2006, 18:06

Remy, is there anything wrong with the side-effect Sid mentioned? Doesn't it somewhat fit into Kal's vision from what he posted?

Just wondering before you guys at pa team start acting without considering the consequences again...

jerome · 12 Oct 2006, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid

Doesnt this mean that you can you use it as a short vacation mode? Can certainly see the attraction in doing this rather than vac-moding if i'm only away for one night.

fair point

Judge · 12 Oct 2006, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid

Doesnt this mean that you can you use it as a short vacation mode? Can certainly see the attraction in doing this rather than vac-moding if i'm only away for one night.

perhaps as a consequence of chosing this option all Research and construction is cancelled not just frozen, meaning that if a particullarly long research was underway you would lose that research time and have to start over. Same with Cons, but not such a dramatic effect.

Appocomaster · 12 Oct 2006, 22:29

Ok.
It's impossible to launch any mission at anyone who has started a reset or planet deletion (it doesn't cancel prelaunches). You get 0 resources if you're in this state, you can't launch any fleets, and you have to have all your fleets at home to start it.
I'm tempted to change "cannot be attacked at all" to "cannot be attacked when you're in the last 16 ticks".

Cancelling research + construction to try and stop "loopholes" would just mean that someone would just miss a research.

Also, I'm assuming everyone would, if they were trying to use it as a loophole, use the planet reset, and if they cut it fine or got delayed, they would end up exiled and with a new planet. I'm not sure how many people are willing to take this risk - I don't think there's any way we can really give their old planet back.

Synthetic_Sid · 13 Oct 2006, 03:32

Hmm, think I might try it out next time attackers start coming on my galaxy. Losing a few ticks of income to totally get left alone in a gal raid seems like a fair trade off. Knee-jerk changes like this which "seem" a good idea but haven't been properly thought through have always been one of PA's biggest weaknesses.

Now, if I like attacking in mornings then I can start a reset at 01:00 or so - and cancel it and attack at 07:00. Sure, I lose 25% of my income - but i avoid 90%+ of my incs AND my fleets aren't tied at base defending a lot of the time meaning i can attack much more often.

Synthetic_Sid · 13 Oct 2006, 03:35

Maybe best bet to block abuse is:

1. Dont block attacks till last 16 ticks (as already mentioned)
2. Only allow poeple a VERY small number of uses of this feature. 2 or 3 i'd think.

Worst case then it allows people a few small vac modes - if they plan it right. Not the end of the world. It would no longer allow regular daily use or use every time yoru galaxy got attacked. Nor would it allow non-stop use of it near end of round to protect roids.

Judge · 13 Oct 2006, 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthetic_Sid

Maybe best bet to block abuse is:

1. Dont block attacks till last 16 ticks (as already mentioned)
2. Only allow poeple a VERY small number of uses of this feature. 2 or 3 i'd think.

Worst case then it allows people a few small vac modes - if they plan it right. Not the end of the world. It would no longer allow regular daily use or use every time yoru galaxy got attacked. Nor would it allow non-stop use of it near end of round to protect roids.

I find myself agreeing with these options

Wandows · 13 Oct 2006, 13:11

Thanks for the quick reply Appoc! But i agree to what you and Sid said that the best thing to do would be using the last 16 ticks for no new inc instead of the entire 24 hours, and a limited use of the reset feature.

Appocomaster · 13 Oct 2006, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wandows

Thanks for the quick reply Appoc! But i agree to what you and Sid said that the best thing to do would be using the last 16 ticks for no new inc instead of the entire 24 hours, and a limited use of the reset feature.

You are now:
-only protected from incoming for the last 16 ticks of your planet being reset / deleted
-logged each time you attempt this to look for abuse
-notified of these things on the preferences screen above said options :-)

Appocomaster · 13 Oct 2006, 22:04

and I just fixed the bug from testing it, fixing the mistake (I'm a mathematician and I still can't get < the right way around), and forgetting to retest.

Appocomaster · 13 Oct 2006, 22:39

Oh, *also* waves warn when planets are undergoing the process AT ANY STAGE - so it's not blindingly obvious, but if you're scanning and then 6 hours later reach the 16 hour mark, you'll still be informed.