Planetarion Forums - Round 34 Stats

Doffeh · 27 Oct 2009, 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gio2k

Are you serious? If every xan played like this, i would go zik. Hell, maybe i will if you tell me whenever you attack a cath.

Yes I am serious, for this was not in the context of the launched attack, but in the context of the values of the fleets and how well they matched.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Why do people care about cath? It's still completely unplayable.

I believe Cat is quite playable things were, with the ninja locust and everything, but seems it's gone now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gio2k

Talking about emp efficiencies, the ETD predator is even higher than the beetle.

I must admit I've not thought too much about Etd at all, but talking about efficiencies, the predator is a slower ship, the +1 to ETA should give it the right to be a little bit better in my mind.

JonnyBGood · 27 Oct 2009, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doffeh

I believe Cat is quite playable things were, with the ninja locust and everything, but seems it's gone now.

Do you mean you think cath are playable now or that they were playable before? Because anyone who thinks they're playable now clearly has no clue about how planetarion actually works.

Makhil · 27 Oct 2009, 15:06

do you mean Asc is going all cath ?

JonnyBGood · 27 Oct 2009, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makhil

do you mean Asc is going all cath ?

I wouldn't know, I'm not in ascendancy. I have no idea what you're saying really, are you trying to imply I'm hoping to convince people cath is terrible so only ascendancy would go cath?

Gate · 27 Oct 2009, 15:17

Are next round's stats the ones in the game.plane... manual?

First impressions are that xand are overpowered. Terran BS truly sucks because of the spirit. Xan A/C D/C is too high.

Gio2k · 27 Oct 2009, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doffeh

Yes I am serious, for this was not in the context of the launched attack, but in the context of the values of the fleets and how well they matched.

Since you are serious, no single xan will hit a cath, or any other target with "just anti-co". In order to break the cath's emp they will have to send all their fi, phantoms included. Also, you want to send your phantoms along to deal with cutlasses and avengers that might defend otherwise.

JDD · 27 Oct 2009, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gate

Are next round's stats the ones in the game.plane... manual?.

not yet, the stats that are currently being discussed are from beta.planet....manual

DrunkenViking · 27 Oct 2009, 15:49

stats done yet?

Doffeh · 27 Oct 2009, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Do you mean you think cath are playable now or that they were playable before? Because anyone who thinks they're playable now clearly has no clue about how planetarion actually works.

They WERE. Now it looks silly again...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gio2k

Since you are serious, no single xan will hit a cath, or any other target with "just anti-co". In order to break the cath's emp they will have to send all their fi, phantoms included. Also, you want to send your phantoms along to deal with cutlasses and avengers that might defend otherwise.

Yepp. The curse of being Xan, to break through the EMP you'll have to send all you got. No one said it was supposed to break through the EMP of an equal valued target and to me that just seems fair. EMP should be the bane of cloaked ships. Last round I often bcalc'd Cath's I wanted to hit, being Xan my self, only to find all my FI EMP'ed and my CO making it through for little use of the purpose of capping, and that's just how Xan is.

isildurx · 27 Oct 2009, 16:40

Cath is going to fine for capping roids i guess, the problem is that keeping them is going to be hard, so theyre probably not the most suited race for people going for t10.

edit: i just took another look at cath efficiencies and i have to agree with jbg, they look pretty fked vs non-xans

Tiamat101 · 27 Oct 2009, 20:03

but tba thats what they should be good against. Xan have really low ER and Cath almost always primary target their ships that can target them back, so it makes sense. Cath beat xan.

I do think that cath could use a little help vs non xan's.

Xan however need the phantom to target co' and change the banshee to target co T3 if at all. this way they can still pose a threat to the caths out there while still being able to keep a balanced fleet.

isildurx · 27 Oct 2009, 20:09

Why do they need to pose a threat to caths??

Caths(And Etd BS i guess) are the only race that really threatens Xan, and Xans can pretty much roid every other race.
On the same note, every other race(except Xan) poses a big threat to cath, so why should xan pose a threat aswell?

As it stands now; make cath a bit better, do NOT improve xan a single bit more.

Doffeh · 27 Oct 2009, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiamat101

Xan however need the phantom to target co' and change the banshee to target co T3 if at all. this way they can still pose a threat to the caths out there while still being able to keep a balanced fleet.

Xan however "need" ? That's like saying you need Xan to be flavour of the round and overpowered. Xan has a LOT of strenghts, being capable of fake-launching like no other race and scaring off defenders with multiple fleets, Xan already has a lot of strenghts. The only weakness being that difficulty to plow through CO really, making them target CO in the manner you suggest would make a 1m value Cat fleet suffer significant losses to a 1m Xan fleet, and what's the point of EMP if they suffer significant losses? Slight is fine, but do keep in mind, you can launch as much as you want on a Cat, and you'll most likely not lose any ships. He however, can only suffer.

Appocomaster · 27 Oct 2009, 22:25

Added Spider (Cath)

Scorpion Guns 22->24
Scorpion Armour 72->76
Gnat Damage 6->7
Tarantula Armour 44->47

Final unless anyone picks big holes

M0RPH3US · 27 Oct 2009, 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by isildurx

Why do they need to pose a threat to caths??

Caths(And Etd BS i guess) are the only race that really threatens Xan, and Xans can pretty much roid every other race.
On the same note, every other race(except Xan) poses a big threat to cath, so why should xan pose a threat aswell?

As it stands now; make cath a bit better, do NOT improve xan a single bit more.

well said

JonnyBGood · 27 Oct 2009, 23:30

Cath have moved up from totally unplayable to just really shit so that's something I guess!

Patrikc · 28 Oct 2009, 00:33

I vote for removing some dead weight ships like the Spider!

Doffeh · 28 Oct 2009, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrikc

I vote for removing some dead weight ships like the Spider!

Or rename it to ladybug. I'll build it, if it's called Ladybug..

Pommeh · 28 Oct 2009, 00:53

How about just removing dead weight races?.. like cath? :P

Gerbie2 · 28 Oct 2009, 09:56

Some SKs are only about half as effective as last rnd. Perhaps they were not done yet. I propose the following values for Armor+Damage:

Behemoth 14 13
Termiet 22 21
Apparition 8 9
Galleon - no change
Basilisk 15 14

Ow and a minor detail: plz get rid of all those fortresses.

edit: another detail: Vindicator is a cloaked ship, so cost shouldn't be 50/40/40, but 43/43/43.

lince · 28 Oct 2009, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerbie2

Ow and a minor detail: plz get rid of all those fortresses.

What fortresses? You mean Ter FR/Xan FR/Etd DE/Zik DE?
As seen last round, the only way FR or DE can be effective is being fortresses, since they get targetted by all races.

Other subject: remove the Spider: totally useless, since you have viper as same init and on attack fleet. Also, spider get targetted T1 by bettle init 1.

Makhil · 28 Oct 2009, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by lince

Other subject: remove the Spider: totally useless, since you have viper as same init and on attack fleet. Also, spider get targetted T1 by bettle init 1.

i disagree, the spider can be a good ship if used with xan fi team ups. who cares if the beetle freezes it, you don't fight cath co with emp, you flod them with FI, and steal them with thieves. Spider is useful then.

Gerbie2 · 28 Oct 2009, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by lince

What fortresses? You mean Ter FR/Xan FR/Etd DE/Zik DE?
As seen last round, the only way FR or DE can be effective is being fortresses, since they get targetted by all races.

Last round I played Xan. I had some Fr (mostly Ghosts) and could attack with it fine. Early round I didn't have Cr to to close the Fr gap and it still went fine. You don't need Fr/De fortresses to be able to play with them. Open up some holes so they can get attacked and defended against. A gap for Cr or Bs could work well. Gaps can be made in 2 varieties: 1 for Emp (low ERes) and 1 for Kill ships (bad initiative+low armor), so you can make 1 Cr/Bs fleet able to hit each type of Fortress.

Gio2k · 28 Oct 2009, 13:58

So what is the point of the spiders? I can't figure why would you need to add such a ship. And no, teamups are not an option, unless the support planet rule has gone away.

Patrikc · 28 Oct 2009, 14:55

The spider adds virtually nothing to Cath, you're better off buying more Vipers and let Xans deal with De.

isildurx · 28 Oct 2009, 14:58

It does help emping Xan SKs if they sent FR + SK

Patrikc · 28 Oct 2009, 15:31

Point taken!

lince · 29 Oct 2009, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerbie2

Gaps can be made in 2 varieties: 1 for Emp (low ERes) and 1 for Kill ships (bad initiative+low armor), so you can make 1 Cr/Bs fleet able to hit each type of Fortress.

Roach/Scorpion/Tycoon aren't enough?
You need even more?
Or you want Ter to own all races with BS?
Because Cath already owning all with Scorpion/Roach.
126-199% efficiency for Scorpion on FR, 138-190% efficiency for Roach on DE.
and if you look at Tarantula efficiency, Cath CR is more effective than Cath CO; problem is the +2 eta ticks

Cowmando · 29 Oct 2009, 15:43

Why did Zik Co get it's EMP resistance dropped? It turned the thief from what could be a useful def ship (or even part of an attack fleet if you can score some pods) if built in large numbers as it had low effectiveness due to firing on CO T2. So after you have flaked through the emp the damage you actually did to the cath CO was small. Now it is a ships that will only be useful if you spend ALL your resources on it. Combine that with the totaly useless cutlass which has the lowest emp res of all ships. The tricky but viable route of zik flying Co has now been removed.

isildurx · 29 Oct 2009, 16:57

I dont see it getting its emp res dropped anywhere.

Onim · 29 Oct 2009, 22:34

plus, you can always decide on going etd and choose the Fi/Co fleet. Its super strong and i find it weird that nobody has talked about going for that yet..

do some calcing with same values and spread out the % in ships of xan vs etd, and etd will always be the winning hand, either with good steals or with the avenger killings (plus the t3 of vindicator).

The pillager is not so high on d/c, but its a/c is what counts when it comes to efficient stealing , esp in beginning when searching for pods.

Only downside of Etd is that is has shit anti cr/bs. the only real good ship would be the guardian, and thats emp and bad eta. the fireblade gets shot at first by almost all cr/bs..but luckily there wont be that many cr/bs this round so i take my chances there

Patrikc · 29 Oct 2009, 22:39

Probably because, IF you're going to score some fi(/co) pods, there's really not much you can hit. Maybe bash some <60% value Caths, but other than that you'll have to rely on teamups.

Onim · 29 Oct 2009, 22:51

not to hard to bash xans with it tbh.

plus, what zik or etd would solo for a whole round anyway? only cath and xan cloacked can get away with that. And yet, i still feel i could even land some good solo attacks as well

Patrikc · 29 Oct 2009, 23:21

I'll have to admit, the Pillager has improved quite a bit since I last compared it with Thief...

*back to calcs*

Gate · 1 Nov 2009, 19:14

Wait, are these the real stats?

If so, first impressions:
Terran BS are unplayable thanks to the spirit.

Cath are shit. CR suck (because of the spirit), CO is alright at attacking like normal, but awful vulnerable to CR/BS. Etd and ziks will probably pick on caths.

Xan are overpowered. FI/CO/Spirit does the job.

Zik pretty much always work out ok.

Etd BS is ok.

If I had to pick for an alliance, I would probably go 80-90% xan, 10-20% cath (in fortress gals) and FI/CO with widow/spirit.

isildurx · 1 Nov 2009, 21:57

Isn't that what everyone is doing?

isildurx · 11 Dec 2009, 21:56

So, what did everyone think of the stats this round?

And what's happening statswise for next round, seeing as its right after christmas maybe one should just tweak a old set?

BaasB · 11 Dec 2009, 23:35

xan fi sucked :P

suppose beetles were too good?!

isildurx · 12 Dec 2009, 07:03

I dont think Xan FI really was underpowered. Perhaps the Beetle efficiency was a tad high vs xan fi and a tad low vs co but it didnt seem like a problem to have a good planet as xan.

t3k · 12 Dec 2009, 07:05

my gal has the top 3 ranked xans, and we all concurr they suck.

Wishmaster · 12 Dec 2009, 07:31

I think the problem is that "all" fire at fi t1. Also you have the option to just sent 1 phant fleet to cover a xan fi with...
To me, it seemed harder to stop teamups with just co ( beet / pill / thief ) than to cover one which had xans in it, cause ziks get value steals from xan fi.
Imo xan fi this round was rather shit, but then again xan fi got to be a bit shit. -cloaked-

Gerbie2 · 12 Dec 2009, 08:37

I was really amazed to see all these Xan fi's. I really expected the Xans to go for Fr.
Stats were more balanced than I thought, although Terran is weak as I expected. Zik was slightly stronger than I expected. Cathaar did better than I expected.
I wonder if everybody would go fi/co again if we used the same stats (or with minor modifications). I think these stats are too defensive. We could use a more offensive set.

isildurx · 12 Dec 2009, 09:32

I have to agree with pretty much everything wish says here. I still don't think Xan is underpowered though, surely it shouldnt be a problem to cap roids with xan fi fleet? I am also, like Gerbie, surprised 'no' xans went the FR route.

If i had to play this round again I would probably try out some sort of fr\de fleet, possibly the xan FR fleet, or maybe the etd BS fleet. Zik CO was excellent for defence but it's, as usual, very hard to cap roids, especially if you dont cap any cath co till 2\3rds of the round is over

DragonKing · 12 Dec 2009, 13:28

Tycoon was over powered, it would need its int raised and damnaged droped a bit, gaurdian would need to be impoved slightly, thief and beetle nerfed abit and i would say swap targeting on pred to co fi so xan have a chance if more people go fr de

Machado · 12 Dec 2009, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by isildurx

I have to agree with pretty much everything wish says here. I still don't think Xan is underpowered though, surely it shouldnt be a problem to cap roids with xan fi fleet? I am also, like Gerbie, surprised 'no' xans went the FR route.

If i had to play this round again I would probably try out some sort of fr\de fleet, possibly the xan FR fleet, or maybe the etd BS fleet. Zik CO was excellent for defence but it's, as usual, very hard to cap roids, especially if you dont cap any cath co till 2\3rds of the round is over

In my experience (we have a lot of fr/de fleets) the true lacking of fr/de is a lack of EMP, which you do have with fi/co and cr/bs. I mean, you only really have the predator.

We've turned to co+fr attacks on occasion, the co being beetles.

Especially Revenants can screw up large team-ups with relatively low value def fleets. Pain in the ass. I think to make fr/de more viable, you'd really need an emp fleet along. Or well, more destroyer etds. (and it sucks that they're de and not fr for team-up)