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Unread 4 May 2014, 15:19   #1
SantaCruz
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R57 Stats sets

I've talked to Appoco. He asked me to make this post.
I finished these two stats of stats over the last year or more. Opening them back up at the end of every round and tweaking them. They don't have eff's balanced yet. They are far from finished. But they could easily be finished before round start
Set one is ST. - I picked ST. because it's simply my favourite kind.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Hc&usp=sharing
Set two is MT, 3 pod - I picked 3 pods to open the attacking. With there being 12 alliances playing last round. There is alot more choice. However they are seeming to be very hard to balance.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Wc&usp=sharing

Btw I ask you not to say something is overpowered yet. If you believe these stats can be balanced and would make for a fun round. Pick them. Then we will work on the balancing. Right now they are only balanced in my mind because I have a an idea of them. Until we can see EFF's they are just names and Targeting

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=200309 <-- link to stats marker post. He also asked me to link that but, i dunno how to besides this
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Unread 4 May 2014, 16:01   #2
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Re: R57 Stats sets

I like set one the most, the main reason being that set 2 Cat has so many more ships with t2 than the other races. For example, 3 emp ships all target co, and there's 2 emp and 1 killship who have Fi as t1, whereas Terran has only 1 ship targeting FR at all, and it's a battleship - although it does look to be good in personal def or attack. I do very much like having 3 pod classes in general. Lots of options.
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Unread 4 May 2014, 16:20   #3
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Re: R57 Stats sets

I never played a ST round. What to expect from it?
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Unread 4 May 2014, 16:30   #4
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Re: R57 Stats sets

In my second set i've not finished my t2's. Since it's a 3 pod set. I've left them open for when eff's can be looked at. Problem is it will get confusing very fast if i just add them randomly. I will take a bit more time now to look into them
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Unread 4 May 2014, 16:47   #5
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Both are playable, I would like a MT set better by personal preference. ST set plays more in the hands of the 'ruiner' alliances planned for next round.

Guess we'll see
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Unread 4 May 2014, 16:59   #6
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Re: R57 Stats sets

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Originally Posted by fortran View Post
I never played a ST round. What to expect from it?
Usually easier to fake meta classes

I would ask santacruz if he could keep defence ships from quick firing v roiding classes where possible and not to have lots of "1 fleet stoppers" defence type fleets.
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Unread 4 May 2014, 17:03   #7
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Only thing is too add from a quick glance at the ST stat is that DE is way too OP even without emp effs and there is a real lack of teamups, all races could probably do with an extra ship....

Ruiners alliances massing De (as they don't care for defence much are pretty unstoppable on attack looking now.

If I was being picky I would say the idea of xan cr feels wrong, it always does when someone puts it in a stat set.
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Unread 4 May 2014, 17:15   #8
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Re: R57 Stats sets

I was in the middle of doing a stats summary of the roiding fleet then I was seeing changes being made to them so I will wait for Santacruz to finish his "first Draft" before commenting.

Edit - when looking at each roiding fleet consider what will be defending against it and also how much of a "defence tolerance" each roiding fleet would have / what is the easiest way to DC it etc.
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Unread 4 May 2014, 17:31   #9
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Re: R57 Stats sets

i just finished. i liked Kai's idea of the extra ship etc. Also my costs were to high for the main resource. It was 35% i think i was drunk. It's now at 20%.

I wont touch anymore
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Unread 4 May 2014, 17:33   #10
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Re: R57 Stats sets

I imagine these ST stats on your average 5 planets galaxy.
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Unread 4 May 2014, 17:39   #11
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Re: R57 Stats sets

BTW others can still hand in their stats. these are just ideas. so feel free to do your own etc.
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Unread 4 May 2014, 17:54   #12
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Re: R57 Stats sets

I think the ST set is good but would work better with an increase in galaxies size.
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Unread 4 May 2014, 18:03   #13
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Re: R57 Stats sets

I'll comment properly Santa in 2 hrs when I have my laptop back, my phone is so laggy to type with.
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Unread 4 May 2014, 19:00   #14
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Re: R57 Stats sets

ST for a change again, simply to have some diversity

and its looks ok on first sight
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Unread 4 May 2014, 19:17   #15
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Re: R57 Stats sets

id say ST, iam not sure i like ur targeting tho. but thats for later i quess ;-) anyway iam not playing.
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Unread 4 May 2014, 20:54   #16
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Re: R57 Stats sets

ST with some MT ships has seemed to work out the best the last couple of rounds IMO

Set 2 pending the revision
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Unread 5 May 2014, 00:36   #17
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Dislike some SK classes I'm looking at...
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Unread 8 May 2014, 16:33   #18
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Any developments on this? are next rounds stats gonna be one of these stats or simply reused earlier round stats?

Personally think the Single Target stats could be fun, tho not sure how balanced they are.

Also, I wouldnt have the Predator as FR stealing FR,I think that gives some funky battle reports when its Predators defending vs Predators.
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Unread 10 May 2014, 09:17   #19
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
Also, I wouldnt have the Predator as FR stealing FR,I think that gives some funky battle reports when its Predators defending vs Predators.
Ships stealing their own class at T1 are almost never a good idea. See also Xan Fi killing Fi at T1 and init 19 steal Fi/Co or Fr/De firing at (respectively) init 20 Fr/De or Cr/Bs.
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Unread 10 May 2014, 10:00   #20
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Are we any closer to deciding on which set of stats to use?
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Unread 11 May 2014, 00:31   #21
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Re: R57 Stats sets

No, i'm not going to def my ST stats. They need to be finished. The 3 pod class is the closest to being finished. But, i'm not sure what i can do. I can't work on both stats at the same time. I would just screw them up.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 00:40   #22
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Are we any closer to deciding on which set of stats to use?
No...

These stats aren't finished. They need work 100%. The point of this post was to find stats people wanted to play. If not these then we have to find ones to play.

If we believe one of these stats can be worked on and playable then I need access to take this to the next step. Beta.

Honestly I've spent like 5x longer on the MT stats. The ST stats are just an idea that needs shaping. I believe the MT stats would make for a much more open round. We have 12 alliances playing pa right now. For as long as I can remember, we've only had 3 true choices for an alliance setup. My MT stats are built for alliances to pick an attack class. Fi OR Co Or FR etc. Not, fi/co or cr/bs. This would give us 6 options for attack. between 12 alliances.

If people help be balance them we could have a very fun round. ST. stats are taking the easy route. I believe in these mt stats.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 09:27   #23
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Looking at the MT set, are you sure about the Xans?

Their attacking Fi only needs to worry about Co from ally defense fleets and it has the init advantage over all kill ships.
Ofcourse the same is true in our current round stats, but there they do have some weaknesses in other area's. Here their FR is also the best way to stop Xan Fi and with the Spectre and the Wraith they're not really weak to CR/BS also.

Atm for me it looks like Xan's are the easy choice, even if their ships werent cloaked.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 09:43   #24
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Re: R57 Stats sets

The conundrum is that the my set is more finished but the st set is the better set .

Completely honestly I would go for the third option, get another set.

Where's Tia?
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Unread 11 May 2014, 20:21   #25
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Any stats ready 10 days prior to round will be good. As Santa said, the MT one got already a good share of his work so we should give a chance to it.
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Unread 11 May 2014, 21:39   #26
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
Looking at the MT set, are you sure about the Xans?

Their attacking Fi only needs to worry about Co from ally defense fleets and it has the init advantage over all kill ships.
Ofcourse the same is true in our current round stats
War Frigate?
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Unread 12 May 2014, 06:08   #27
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Re: R57 Stats sets

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
I was talking about ally defense that can make the eta.
But thank you for contributing.
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Unread 12 May 2014, 06:26   #28
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Because Thief, not being able to make ally eta, in r55 was a non-factor, right?


Of course in this case it's a Xan Frigate that stops Xan Fi (along with Clipper on defense), but it's not like Xan Fi is invincible.
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Unread 12 May 2014, 06:43   #29
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Not saying Xan fi is invincible, but Xan is too strong compared to other races..
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Unread 12 May 2014, 09:09   #30
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Just like with every round Cutlass+ beetles will ALWAYS beat xan fi. Emp is why xan isnt 100% picked. Not to mention Smuggler free steal at t2? How you think xan is too strong when its beaten the same way it has EVERY round of the past 15 rounds. Emp+ steal, Faster fr/de ship(ingal). And as Santa has said the stats aren't finished there are still things that are going to be fixed, ships that will be changed and atleast one major overhaul to be.

As for your snarky remark Kai. I am not gonna do stats for a while in the hopes that other people will bring some new ideas to the table.
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Unread 12 May 2014, 11:54   #31
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Re: R57 Stats sets

So we arent re-using a set?
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Unread 12 May 2014, 12:18   #32
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Re: R57 Stats sets

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So we arent re-using a set?
Il sure appoco will decide the day before tick start
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Unread 12 May 2014, 15:22   #33
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Re: R57 Stats sets

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Il sure appoco will decide the day before tick start
I'm sure he's just having a really hard time deciding between the hundreds of sets he was given.
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Unread 12 May 2014, 16:41   #34
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Problem with ST is that most often, it leaves you very little middle ground.
Either they are very offensive, or they can be very defensive.
Id like someone to rework R51 stat sets, they are one of most entertaining sets thats been around in quite a while IIRC.
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Unread 12 May 2014, 16:42   #35
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Re: R57 Stats sets

why not pick a finished old set, like e.g. r20
no one has to tweak (and **** it up) and probably not too many remember the flaws they had.
though flaws come with politics (seen last round) and racial distribution (seen also last round) anyhow
and 3 rounds played with the same set are probably going totally diffrent

http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=20

as a side-mark, it would be really nice to look at one set at this time now, not on a dozen

Your move appoco!
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Unread 12 May 2014, 17:59   #36
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Completely agree with m0.

Less tinkering more reusing
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Unread 12 May 2014, 18:54   #37
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Re: R57 Stats sets

R37 set was already proposed, I vote for that one.
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Unread 12 May 2014, 19:52   #38
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Re: R57 Stats sets

I veto isildurxs vote!
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Unread 12 May 2014, 20:22   #39
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Re: R57 Stats sets

Yeah please just pick 1 set, so we can start preparing for the round, even if theres still tiny changes comming.

I'd say Santa's MT set is good to use, if he can get the efficiencies right fast. Seems a bit bad to have someone spend a ton of time making a set, then just reuse another set.

Tho the r37 ST one seems interesting also.
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Unread 12 May 2014, 22:04   #40
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Re: R57 Stats sets

I'm happy to endorse Santa's MT stats, pending any changes he is comfortable making, with the 3 pod classes.

Santa, over to you
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Unread 12 May 2014, 22:47   #41
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Re: R57 Stats sets

ST is more fun y0.. roids changing owner! MT Stats only favour the big organized alliances.. and leads to big blocks being made in able to land anything at all.. No medium sized alliance can warr a full tag with MT stats.. with ST its much more interesting
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Unread 12 May 2014, 23:25   #42
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Re: R57 Stats sets

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ST is more fun y0.. roids changing owner! MT Stats only favour the big organized alliances.. and leads to big blocks being made in able to land anything at all.. No medium sized alliance can warr a full tag with MT stats.. with ST its much more interesting
More interesting for smaller alliance, and more annoying for big alliance ST is yes.
Id say rather make a set with loop holes that does not require too much thinking.
A 3 pod class set can be realy fun for organized alliances, not so fun for smaller none organized alliances.
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Unread 13 May 2014, 03:34   #43
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Re: R57 Stats sets

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Originally Posted by SDN View Post
ST is more fun y0.. roids changing owner! MT Stats only favour the big organized alliances.. and leads to big blocks being made in able to land anything at all.. No medium sized alliance can warr a full tag with MT stats.. with ST its much more interesting
The point to having 3 pod classes. Is that no alliance can stop all classes. St and 3 pod classes are a lot alike. They are offensive. So even small alliances could go pure "Co" def well but, be able to attack another alliance weak to their setup. They will have weakness because they are stats. Balance means losing roids and gaining them equally (hopefully)

Anyways thanks Appoco. I will start back to work on them again tomorrow night. I've already got a list of things I would like to change.
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Unread 13 May 2014, 03:42   #44
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Re: R57 Stats sets

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Looking at the MT set, are you sure about the Xans?

Their attacking Fi only needs to worry about Co from ally defense fleets and it has the init advantage over all kill ships.
Ofcourse the same is true in our current round stats, but there they do have some weaknesses in other area's. Here their FR is also the best way to stop Xan Fi and with the Spectre and the Wraith they're not really weak to CR/BS also.

Atm for me it looks like Xan's are the easy choice, even if their ships werent cloaked.
Ofc it's going to only have to worry about Co. If I had Fi hitting Fi people would emo. There is only 2 eta 7 ships. Fi and Co.
Another note. Stats aren't just T1 and T2. With eff's balance firing first doesn't mean it wins vs all ships. It could lose to a ship init 7. Say if Xan init 4 has lower firepower due to firing first. Ter init 7 has high armor, med firepower. It's not going to kill enough Ter. This is why i keep saying I wanted to be able to see eff's. I have a plan with these stats. Ships aren't going to have the same eff just because they are the same race. They will have the eff required for balance. Or at least the best that can be done.
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Unread 13 May 2014, 06:28   #45
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Re: R57 Stats sets

If the MT stats are being Used ill try and look em over tonight
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Unread 13 May 2014, 06:28   #46
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Re: R57 Stats sets

You could have Fi and Co hitting themselves at T2, which means Init matters less since they fire with lower efficiency.

However, since theres the Smuggler, Xan arent too strong after all.

Also since theres no eff's yet, we can only assume it will be around the same as each round and then each ship will kill over 50% of its T1 target, making init matter quite a bit. But it will be interesting to see what eff's you come up with, hopefully you can get the shipstats close to final soon
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Unread 13 May 2014, 07:21   #47
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Re: R57 Stats sets

SantaCruz will you give terran salvage back?
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Unread 13 May 2014, 07:32   #48
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Re: R57 Stats sets

I'm interested by your attempts to fiddle effs within each race but ultimately giving everyone fr/de pods is just going to make lots of active and unroidable fr/de forts.

Currently you get your shuffle at tick 12 and you are lumbered with races that maybe dont match your bp start. 3 pod classes makes that no longer the case. Anyone not going fr/de with these stats and wanting to do well has to be a mental.
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Unread 13 May 2014, 09:13   #49
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Re: R57 Stats sets

With FR/DE not targetting FR/DE, I am not sure how you want to make a FR/DE Fortress?

The way it's set up now, Each of the different combo's (eta 7 ships, eta 8 ships, eta 9 ships) can protect vs 2 others but not all 3. And gets hit by 2 others but not 3.
So you can make eta 7 ships (fi/co) and cover fi/co/fr/de, can make eta 8 (fr/de) and cover fi/co/ cr/bs etc

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Unread 13 May 2014, 10:02   #50
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Re: R57 Stats sets

How is it that the Smuggler is the only ship to target it's own class? I take it that's an error? General consensus is that free-fire defships are bad, let alone a free-fire steal ships?
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