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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 08:02   #351
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
Blocks here, blocks there, who cares, it's a goddamn war game after all Wanna come, bring it, don't wanna come, then don't. Such serious business.
There won't be a block, alliances 2-8 have an 'anyone but ult' mentality so they don't care if BF strolls it, as long as Ult doesn't win
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 09:13   #352
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
There won't be a block, alliances 2-8 have an 'anyone but ult' mentality so they don't care if BF strolls it, as long as Ult doesn't win
HR & Rainbows are usually more pro ult than anyone but ult, but ok!
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 09:37   #353
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Re: R66 who will win

DATA

Score since tick 500 and score gain since tick 500. Looks like CT and BF have both been growing faster than Ult recently.

Looked into BF stocking too, but couldn't find a way to show it happening. Doesn't mean they aren't doing it, but still. Attempts: value gain and expected vs. actual value gain (where expected value gain = (roids * 250 + 3 * 25000) * 1.55 / 92, ie tot with 60 FCs and 0 refs). The gap in both graphs is BF adding their 60th member, which skewed the graphs. Slight increase in both graphs can be explained by people still working on FCs and refs.
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Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 14 Apr 2016 at 10:08.
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 10:15   #354
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
There won't be a block, alliances 2-8 have an 'anyone but ult' mentality so they don't care if BF strolls it, as long as Ult doesn't win
Alliances 4 and 8 have historically been on ult's side so this seems a rather over the top statement. And the blocking mentality that applies to ult applies to everyone else too, it is just less strong because other allies think it is easier to beat Bf (or in this case simply slow them down which makes a big difference) than it usually is for Ult.

Pro tip; don't make sweeping generalisations as they are almost always wrong.
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 12:36   #355
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Re: R66 who will win

This entire thread is the reason PA is dying.
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 12:51   #356
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Re: R66 who will win

Another massive overstatement.

What is your reasoning for this? How can it be the cause of pa dying when probably at most 10% of the players have read any of the thread?
Or do you actually mean that the problems highlighted in this thread (whatever you consider those to be, it has covered a fair bit of ground) are the cause of pa dying?
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 12:56   #357
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Re: R66 who will win

Quite obviously the problems contained within the thread.

I'm surprised that needed clarifying.
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 13:04   #358
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by Bobzy View Post
Quite obviously the problems contained within the thread.

I'm surprised that needed clarifying.
Some people are speshul....heheh.
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 13:17   #359
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by Bobzy View Post
Quite obviously the problems contained within the thread.

I'm surprised that needed clarifying.
And I am surprised it needs clarifying that I am asking what particular problems rather than just a clarification about whether you just mean the forums are the problem - read between the lines, if I don't know what you mean to the extent of thinking it possible that you mean the forum thread itself it should be clear that I can't infer what specifically you are referring to. This thread has contained a huge amount of ground. Do you mean the lack of blocking, or the fact that some are worried about it? The way that politics is carried out in public here on the forums, or the fact that we are reliant on rumours here? Do you mean that xp is too strong or that value always wins out? You could mean accusations of cheating. Or you could mean out of tag planets. And probably other things I have forgotten about. If you mean all of these things then there really is no hope for PA!
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 13:17   #360
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Re: R66 who will win

and since when did people not give abuse for a rickroll???
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 13:39   #361
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by [DDK]gm View Post
and since when did people not give abuse for a rickroll???
It was my favorite post.
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 13:43   #362
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by [DDK]gm View Post
and since when did people not give abuse for a rickroll???
Since everyone stopped giving a shit about it. Probably around 2008
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 13:51   #363
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
And I am surprised it needs clarifying that I am asking what particular problems rather than just a clarification about whether you just mean the forums are the problem - read between the lines, if I don't know what you mean to the extent of thinking it possible that you mean the forum thread itself it should be clear that I can't infer what specifically you are referring to. This thread has contained a huge amount of ground. Do you mean the lack of blocking, or the fact that some are worried about it? The way that politics is carried out in public here on the forums, or the fact that we are reliant on rumours here? Do you mean that xp is too strong or that value always wins out? You could mean accusations of cheating. Or you could mean out of tag planets. And probably other things I have forgotten about. If you mean all of these things then there really is no hope for PA!
In essence (and probable chronological order);
- The game being almost solely based around personal feuds (rather than round-on-round play)
- Blocking against Ult
- The creation of Ult support tags
- The usage of OOT planets

All of it needs to be culled - likely, none of it will be. Game continues to die.
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 14:56   #364
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by Bobzy View Post
In essence (and probable chronological order);
- The game being almost solely based around personal feuds (rather than round-on-round play)
- Blocking against Ult
- The creation of Ult support tags
- The usage of OOT planets

All of it needs to be culled - likely, none of it will be. Game continues to die.
I think all four are inter related. When an alliance starts a round with 90+ planets working in conjunction of course that's going to tick off other allies. Add in the comments made here on the forum and clearly an animosity has formed. I do agree it's a negative for the game but clearly the admin don't care so we will stay in the same negative feedback loop.
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 15:57   #365
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Re: R66 who will win

It's basically a matter of who blinks first.

I've been back in the PA game/community since... r53 I think, and spent the majority of my time in CT with a brief stint in BF too. This, currently, is the worst it's been since I've come back. I've discussed the issue at fair length with CT and Ult HCs and the appreciation seems to be that one side needs to let it go first - but neither will.

I left CT at the end of last round because of this ongoing feud (and I'm not saying they're the only alliances involved, it's just my experience) and will likely leave the game entirely in the near future.

There's just no enjoyment in knowing exactly what is coming. Similarly, there's also no enjoyment in the terrible set of stats this round
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 17:46   #366
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by ReaperSix View Post
I think all four are inter related. When an alliance starts a round with 90+ planets working in conjunction of course that's going to tick off other allies. Add in the comments made here on the forum and clearly an animosity has formed. I do agree it's a negative for the game but clearly the admin don't care so we will stay in the same negative feedback loop.
It's the players' fault.
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 18:18   #367
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Re: R66 who will win

The players are doing whatever helps them win. That's their job. If that behaviour is harmful to the long-term health of the game, then that at least is a problem the developers alone can solve. I'm not sure arguing about guilt is productive.
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 19:41   #368
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
The players are doing whatever helps them win. That's their job. If that behaviour is harmful to the long-term health of the game, then that at least is a problem the developers alone can solve. I'm not sure arguing about guilt is productive.
Incentives in game as they are don't absolve players of culpability when they consistently play to the exclusion of others (often regardless of the outcome for themselves), for instance. So maybe it's not about allocating blame but it is about not just going 'not me it was the game engine guv' and not recognising that the behaviour of players can be damaging. Obviously the admins need to act but players can cease making decisions that have verged into the category of spiteful, as bobzy has pointed out. That choice is down to them entirely.
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Unread 14 Apr 2016, 21:12   #369
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Re: R66 who will win

I don't think many people are playing in a way that is harmful to themselves. Their goals may not be Bobzy's, your or my goals, but they make sense to them.

To make the problem a little more concrete, let's look at galaxy exiling. Veteran players have always ruthlessly farmed and then exiled newbies landing in their galaxies, because the odds of that newbie becoming useful to such a single-round semi-random collection of planets are slim. Better to get rid of them and bet on an experienced player, especially since you can influence the outcome of that bet by coordinating with such players exiling around.

This is clearly harmful to the long-term viability of the game, because if newbies have a hard time penetrating the community, they are unlikely to stick around.

You could say, well, veterans shouldn't do that then, but if I decide to keep newbies in my galaxy, then I am less likely to do as well as people who get rid of them. The Nash equilibrium is exiling. There are clear parallels with the tragedy of the commons and prisoner's dilemma, though I don't know if it's quite either.

One way the community could discourage selfishly optimal behaviour that is harmful in the long term is by punishing those who engage in it. Unfortunately, if dishing out such punishment were selfishly optimal, we would all already do it. Since we don't, it must be non-optimal for the persons engaging in it, thereby creating another gap: between people who selflessly punish and those who selfishly don't.

Ultimately, the only people who can improve the situation across the board are the ones who made the rules that gave us the incentives to behave destructively in the first place: the developers. If every time you exiled someone, everyone in the galaxy lost 10% of their value, people would stop exiling real ****ing quick.

This is just an example. Some others, off the top of my head: cheating (the offside rule is not enforced by the opposing team), blocking, OOT support, escorting, defwhoring.

We're all still dicks, of course.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 09:36   #370
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
This is just an example. Some others, off the top of my head: cheating (the offside rule is not enforced by the opposing team), blocking, OOT support, escorting, defwhoring.

We're all still dicks, of course.
As for cheating, there is not much to do about this issue.
We can see BF has again a full tag, and their HCs has been caught cheating numerous times, still people seem to not care.

Blocking is a part of the game, and is not a issue for as long as there is a goal behind it beside "make sure allie X dont win".

Out of tag planets is due to the extremly low alliance tags. The goal for the small allie tags was for other alliances to be able to "compete" with the top "tags", but PaX/PaN has always been a game where only a small fraction of the univers is/should be in the race for tag win.

Escort/defwhoring is also a part of the game that has always ben here, and never been a big issue as long as its done within the rules of the game.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 10:31   #371
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Re: R66 who will win

You're missing the point. My post was not about specific behaviours or strategies, and whether they are harmful to the game or not. It was about where the power to improve the situation lies.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 12:20   #372
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
As for cheating, there is not much to do about this issue.
We can see BF has again a full tag, and their HCs has been caught cheating numerous times, still people seem to not care.
Now pls Farmer-Bob... You can throw all the accusations you want, so could I, but apparently I am that much bigger person. I can admit that I was closed once during a havoc ages ago, as apparently landing someone 3 podwaves while owning the biggest FI fleet in the universe was possibly farming, I was later opened after sorting the issue with the MH team. And that's the end of that. IF you wish to continue talking from your behind, pls do that on a toilet. If you also weren't such a sad person, I'd invite you to visit our slack so you could see yourself how full of bots and cousins we are.

What comes to Mzyxptlk and Bobzys posts, I must concur with pretty much all they said. Being out for almost a full round last round due to major changes RL and coming back this round for a re-union round, everything I see and hear going on just saddens me. And yes, majority of the blame must fall on the community, we made the game as it's now, surely it wasn't designed to be a goddamn blockfest where you need 120 pals to have a chance to win anything.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 13:10   #373
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Re: R66 who will win

Blocking isn't a problem in itself.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 14:51   #374
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Re: R66 who will win

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Now pls Farmer-Bob... You can throw all the accusations you want, so could I, but apparently I am that much bigger person. I can admit that I was closed once during a havoc ages ago, as apparently landing someone 3 podwaves while owning the biggest FI fleet in the universe was possibly farming, I was later opened after sorting the issue with the MH team. And that's the end of that. IF you wish to continue talking from your behind, pls do that on a toilet. If you also weren't such a sad person, I'd invite you to visit our slack so you could see yourself how full of bots and cousins we are.

What comes to Mzyxptlk and Bobzys posts, I must concur with pretty much all they said. Being out for almost a full round last round due to major changes RL and coming back this round for a re-union round, everything I see and hear going on just saddens me. And yes, majority of the blame must fall on the community, we made the game as it's now, surely it wasn't designed to be a goddamn blockfest where you need 120 pals to have a chance to win anything.
I have no intention to continue trying to hunt down cheaters, as im not even playing this round myself. Im not saying BF currently are cheating, but that youve been caught numerous times before.

This game has always been about working together, blocking is a part of the game, and in itself is not a problem in many situations.
In norwegian i would say that there is too many "nessekonger" in this game due to the amount of small tags/group within the game.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 14:52   #375
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Re: R66 who will win

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You're missing the point. My post was not about specific behaviours or strategies, and whether they are harmful to the game or not. It was about where the power to improve the situation lies.
Where does the power to improve the situation lay then?
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 16:20   #376
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Re: R66 who will win

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Where does the power to improve the situation lay then?
The giant OFF switch that they should have flicked about 4 years ago
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 16:47   #377
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Where does the power to improve the situation lay then?
If you're not going to bother reading my posts, I'm not going to bother answering stupid questions.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 18:53   #378
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
If you're not going to bother reading my posts, I'm not going to bother answering stupid questions.
I did read your post.
The game IS somewhat community controlled.
Tag limit shrinkage? Blame Krypton
Ingame "war" button? Blame me & others
Change to BP "size"/setup - go read the latest thread.
Allowimg unallied players advertise themself? Also one of my suggestions iirc

A lot is being tweeked/redone/implented. Exile has been quite recently tweaked aswell?
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 19:04   #379
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Re: R66 who will win

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Tag limit shrinkage? Blame Krypton
Looking at the changes page tag limits, with an exception for round 56, have been at 60 since round 48, Krypton can have little to do with this when he returned to the game with p3n in round 57. The only new change is the counting change from 50 to 40.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 21:10   #380
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
Looking at the changes page tag limits, with an exception for round 56, have been at 60 since round 48, Krypton can have little to do with this when he returned to the game with p3n in round 57. The only new change is the counting change from 50 to 40.
Then who has?
Its been Rogues as far as i have been paying attention, the only ones whining for it.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 21:59   #381
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Re: R66 who will win

So BF has closed a 13 mil gap to an 8 mil gap earlier today in just a few days gaining like 1 mil a day to whoever was first.

Ult attacked really late so they overtook CT now and the gap from 1st to BF is 9 mil now and shrinking.

Its been a while since an alliance so fat compared to everyone else has gone unchecked for this long into a round and seeing how all the other contenders are so keen on NOT working together this could very well last the entire round.

Or maybe not... who knows!
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 22:35   #382
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Re: R66 who will win

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Its been a while since an alliance so fat compared to everyone else has gone unchecked for this long into a round.
Norse managed, when they are perhaps the worst alliance ever in terms of defence capabilities in the PA history, manage to go 45/49 days basicly without incs what-so-ever, while being the fattest targets in the univers?


Congrats to BF, realy, to manage to get close to what Norse did last round.

Im sure we can blame Raptored and ND, Munkee and Rogues again?
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 22:50   #383
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Norse managed, when they are perhaps the worst alliance ever in terms of defence capabilities in the PA history, manage to go 45/49 days basicly without incs what-so-ever, while being the fattest targets in the univers?


Congrats to BF, realy, to manage to get close to what Norse did last round.

Im sure we can blame Raptored and ND, Munkee and Rogues again?
Your such a clueless see you next Tuesday. Peng has stayed out of all politics and has hit everyone including BF. Rogues doesn't exist. Can't speak for ND.

On behalf of almost everyone please go away.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 23:00   #384
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Norse managed, when they are perhaps the worst alliance ever in terms of defence capabilities in the PA history, manage to go 45/49 days basicly without incs what-so-ever, while being the fattest targets in the univers?
Norsemen defense is only bad in the strictest sense of the word. If you can play the universe such that you don't get incs, you don't need to defend. Norsemen are the king of NAPs, both official and unofficial. They're playing to their strenghts, and they've been doing it almost since they started playing. If you looked at their member list, you wouldn't be surprised.

As they say, good offense is the best defense. In PA, good politics is the best defense.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 23:29   #385
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Then who has?
Its been Rogues as far as i have been paying attention, the only ones whining for it.
You seem to have something of an obsession about an alliance that lasted all of two rounds and barely made much of an impact even in the rounds it did play. Krypton is clearly a big supporter of tag limits, but he was before rogues, and has continued to be after rogues. I too have in the past stated a preference for lower tag limits but similarly this has nothing to do with me having spent ONE round in rogues. So two people from an alliance of fortysomething are in favour of it how does this make it a rogues issue?
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Im sure we can blame Raptored and ND, Munkee and Rogues again?
Please explain why alliances ranked 5 and 7 should be responsible for creating a block against BF. Both may well join a block if it is created but neither has a good reason to be the one making the first move. Why should either want get a BF block gunning for them?
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 23:29   #386
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Norsemen defense is only bad in the strictest sense of the word. If you can play the universe such that you don't get incs, you don't need to defend. Norsemen are the king of NAPs, both official and unofficial. They're playing to their strenghts, and they've been doing it almost since they started playing. If you looked at their member list, you wouldn't be surprised.

As they say, good offense is the best defense. In PA, good politics is the best defense.
Abusing a fatwa from p3nguins/ND/CT/FL/whatever, is not playing to your strength, its a situation wich aint suppose to happend in the first place.

Their defence is worse than ND/HR/patsa, only because they actauly never were trying.

Playing to their strenghts? fck off seriously.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 23:38   #387
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Re: R66 who will win

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You seem to have something of an obsession about an alliance that lasted all of two rounds and barely made much of an impact even in the rounds it did play. Krypton is clearly a big supporter of tag limits, but he was before rogues, and has continued to be after rogues. I too have in the past stated a preference for lower tag limits but similarly this has nothing to do with me having spent ONE round in rogues. So two people from an alliance of fortysomething are in favour of it how does this make it a rogues issue?
Ive been in this game enough to be able to make up a determined opinion on what the diffrent group of people are trying to achieve.
Rogues is just a example of a bunch of alliances ive seen bump up the past 15 years, claiming to be the new big shot on the block.

Opinioated people just come around once in a while, just mz, he kept rotting as newb in a PA clone before after many years of hard trials became a pirate. troll
Krypton/P3nguins/Rogues has been one of the main voices of smaller tags through the last 20 rounds, sorry.
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 23:40   #388
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
Please explain why alliances ranked 5 and 7 should be responsible for creating a block against BF. Both may well join a block if it is created but neither has a good reason to be the one making the first move. Why should either want get a BF block gunning for them?
They arnt.
Please tell me why ND/FL/what-the-****-not is responsibole to join a block vs Ult when P3ng/CT has been NAPed with Ult for 500 ticks(last round)?
I know P3nguins/FL just discovered they are/have fallen into the 2nd tier, and they cant do much about their situation without any hard labour, so who are to blame?
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Unread 15 Apr 2016, 23:56   #389
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Re: R66 who will win

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Rogues is just a example of a bunch of alliances ive seen bump up the past 15 years, claiming to be the new big shot on the block.
I dont think rogues ever claimed to be the new big shot on the block, we simply hoped to stir up moribund politics a little. I dont think anyone in their right mind would claim an alliance of around 40 non elite members is a big shot alliance.

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Opinioated people just come around once in a while... Krypton
So because Krypton is opinionated you blame everything he says on rogues? Why dont you simply aim your comments at him? Or perhaps (radical idea) you could provide reasoned arguments for why he is wrong rather than constantly launching ad hominem attacks? Or is your blaming rogues just a tactic to enable you to make such attacks at one remove?

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They arnt.
Please tell me why ND/FL/what-the-****-not is responsibole to join a block vs Ult when P3ng/CT has been NAPed with Ult for 500 ticks(last round)?
I know P3nguins/FL just discovered they are/have fallen into the 2nd tier, and they cant do much about their situation without any hard labour, so who are to blame?
We have been through this! P3n was a 2nd tier alliance when we made our nap with ult. We had around 40 members. Moreover tick 500 is not particularly late for starting a war, why should we have assumed that we would need to start it earlier? And where did I say ND fl etc are responsible for joining a block with p3n/ct? As you may remember p3n launched its war with Ult initially on its own with just some help from FL. Others were slowly brought in as things expanded. This was hardly p3n holding ND or other alliances 'responsible' for the situation p3n was in. It was in each case up to the other alliance to join us or not as they wished.
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Unread 16 Apr 2016, 00:04   #390
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Re: R66 who will win

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I

We have been through this! P3n was a 2nd tier alliance when we made our nap with ult. We had around 40 members. Moreover tick 500 is not particularly late for starting a war, why should we have assumed that we would need to start it earlier? And where did I say ND fl etc are responsible for joining a block with p3n/ct? As you may remember p3n launched its war with Ult initially on its own with just some help from FL. Others were slowly brought in as things expanded. This was hardly p3n holding ND or other alliances 'responsible' for the situation p3n was in. It was in each case up to the other alliance to join us or not as they wished.
My point indeed, p3nguins going from a 2/3rd tier allie, and to a alliance "GOING FOR THE WIN" due to napping Ult for half the round, and joining the "BIGGEST BLOCK EVER" the rest of teh round.

Surely you gotta see what is wrong here, and leave your Rogues/P3nguins mate to aim for what best for the community?
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Unread 16 Apr 2016, 00:29   #391
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Re: R66 who will win

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My point indeed, p3nguins going from a 2/3rd tier allie, and to a alliance "GOING FOR THE WIN" due to napping Ult for half the round, and joining the "BIGGEST BLOCK EVER" the rest of teh round.
If an alliance gains another 10 members unexpectedly how would you not expect it's situation to change? Gaining a dedicated group as we did makes a big difference. In this case it also meant gaining a dedicated BC and ppl in good time zones (something p3n has always had problems with) so yes it did change us from an also ran to having a possibility of competing for the win. As for the biggest block ever I am certain this is not the case, biggest block to last for half the round maybe. And just joining? Surely we have a claim on the making of it?
I however don't understand why a big block last would be a bad thing while a big block this round would be good which seems to be your implication.

finally discussion of last round is a little by the by, the situation is so different it is difficult to see that bringing up last round as a parallel is really informative. Instead please find a similar case of a value alliance in an xp round and what happened to it.
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Unread 16 Apr 2016, 05:36   #392
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Re: R66 who will win

Guys ive figured it out

butcher = trump
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Unread 16 Apr 2016, 08:23   #393
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Re: R66 who will win

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Opinioated people just come around once in a while, just mz, he kept rotting as newb in a PA clone before after many years of hard trials became a pirate. troll
You are really hurting my feelings here.
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Unread 16 Apr 2016, 08:56   #394
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Norse managed, when they are perhaps the worst alliance ever in terms of defence capabilities in the PA history, manage to go 45/49 days basicly without incs what-so-ever, while being the fattest targets in the univers?
Do not even compare Norse from last round to BF this round as its a very different case.

Norse was a 30 man mass waving, barely defending, heroes type of play troll alliance that wasnt even that fat until the block formed. It was Ultores that was running away with the round, a block formed to stop them but the block was so blinded by their goals(Ultores not winning no matter what) that they didnt care about a 30 odd man troll alliance. So the trolls did what they do best, attack! If war were to stop even as late as tick 1100, Norse would 100% not win. No one in the block cared if Norse wins as long as Ultores doesnt win.

BF is a different case, they are a serious alliance more organized than Norse ever was and an alliance that won before too. They had the roid and value lead since tick 100, yet 600 ticks later no one seems interested to hit them except the few skirmishes they had with nd/bows/ult which lasted 1-2 days each.
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Unread 16 Apr 2016, 17:15   #395
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Re: R66 who will win

I think everyone loses site of the true issue, rule changes.

The PA many of us knew and loved when we played early rounds (round 3 for me) is not the PA of today. Many would agree that certain bug, glitches, and cheats were right to be fixed, but many changes being talked about or done are not fixes, but behavior altering. Some, like pre-launching, were done to try and save PA. Some, however, like the tag limits, restrictions on defense, bp size, and even alliance def fleets, have seemed to come about, not as a method of preserving the game, but as a means of trying to help smaller and smaller groups.

In doing those changes, however, the more experienced players simply alter strategy, play differently, cuasing either more changes to be made, or rules to be created. What doesn't happen, however, is the group supposedly benefitted by the changes, actually benefitting. And so more changes get made.

In the end, Ult will be Ult, CT will be CT, blocks will be blocks, and the only thing really effecting whether or not this game is even playable, let alone winable, is who your friend is in the current round. Even cheaters havent left the game, apparently.

Ok, back now to your regularly scheduled shenanigans.
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Unread 16 Apr 2016, 17:24   #396
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
Some, however, like the tag limits, restrictions on defense, bp size, and even alliance def fleets, have seemed to come about, not as a method of preserving the game, but as a means of trying to help smaller and smaller groups.
We very rarely seem to actually get much of the reasoning that the pa crew has behind a particular change. Tag limits have existed for a long time - indeed I presume that they have ever since alliances were built ingame so I think we can take it as read that a limit was considered a necessary thing to do when making ingame alliances. The others we may be able to guess at from forum suggestions but do we really know? Even if something does mirror a suggestion from the suggestions forum we don't know whose reasoning persuaded the team. So are they meant to help smaller groups? Or to make things easier for everyone? Or to make things more equal and competitive? Or to add flavour to the game? Maybe, but we dont really know. The PA crew may simply be making changes for the sake of changes.
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Unread 16 Apr 2016, 18:25   #397
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Re: R66 who will win

Changes that "help" the smaller groups consistently help the bigger groups as well (and in many cases even more). Consider the Alliance Fleet for example, HR (or any other smaller group) might get ~20-30 people set those fleets, BF has ~50 people setting those fleets, who benefits more?

40 people counting to alliance score? Again, tags like ULT/BF/CT can have 20 more defwhores or escorts or whatnot who don't have to care much about their own score, how does that help the smaller groups at all? Good, you got it, it doesn't help.

Buddypack size? Doesn't matter what it is, the usual suspects will end up in their usual galaxies anyway, few exiles more or less doesn't matter much, but "normal" people who would work better when they're in the same galaxy together get rekt more. (Considering my time in HR for example, having any allymates in gal compared to random gal was a huge benefit [1-2 just doesn't cut it]).
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Unread 16 Apr 2016, 20:35   #398
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
Changes that "help" the smaller groups consistently help the bigger groups as well (and in many cases even more). Consider the Alliance Fleet for example, HR (or any other smaller group) might get ~20-30 people set those fleets, BF has ~50 people setting those fleets, who benefits more?
BF or ULT response rate probably didnt increase with this feature, only life quality was affected. While other alliances probably had an upgrade.

Those feature to 'help' small or lower quality groups won't make them able to compete with the contenders, it will only improve their gameplay and turn the game more enjoyable.
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Unread 16 Apr 2016, 21:05   #399
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
Changes that "help" the smaller groups consistently help the bigger groups as well (and in many cases even more).
It certainly doesn't help that most of the feedback (and that's giving a lot of credit) does not come from the people the changes purport to help.
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Unread 16 Apr 2016, 21:24   #400
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Re: R66 who will win

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
It certainly doesn't help that most of the feedback (and that's giving a lot of credit) does not come from the people the changes purport to help.
One of the few thats been whining for smaller tags is TheoDD, and he won last round(?).

Krypton/ReaperSix/Rogues cant be helped what ever you do
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