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6 Jun 2005, 18:24
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#1
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God of Fire and Mischief
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Eindhoven
Posts: 135
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[Discuss]A New Race Is Born
How about some innovation?
How about some more diversity in this game?
How about a new race?
Quote:
Terran
Construction: 2 ticks faster.
Production: 1 tick faster.
Cathaar
Construction: 1 tick slower.
Research: 10% faster.
Covert Ops: higher max-stealth and stealth growth.
Ships EMP enemies instead of destroying them.
Xandathrii
Construction: 1 tick faster.
Research: 10% slower.
Production: 1 tick faster.
Ships are cloaked from fleet scans, have extremely poor armour but more powerful weapons resource for resource.
Zikonian
Production: 2 ticks faster.
Covert Ops: higher max-stealth and stealth growth.
Can steal enemy ships and use them against others.
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How about a race, with extremely good defense, and extremely weak attack? Higher max alertness, higher standard alertness, we could give this race the ability to build pds - Planetarion Defense System - like turrets on a planet. (Not 10 sorts of them, 3 or perhaps 1 kind of turret that attacks all ship types would be great.) This would be a defensive race. It would be very good because of the turrets, but its attack would be weak in contrast to e.g. Leviathans: strong AND powerful.
Think of other ideas yourself .
Come on with those ideas! (Name and advantages.)
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6 Jun 2005, 18:58
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#2
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..comeback kid
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 41
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Re: A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Link
How about a race, with extremely good defense, and extremely weak attack? Higher max alertness, higher standard alertness, we could give this race the ability to build pds - Planetarion Defense System - like turrets on a planet. (Not 10 sorts of them, 3 or perhaps 1 kind of turret that attacks all ship types would be great.) This would be a defensive race. It would be very good because of the turrets, but its attack would be weak in contrast to e.g. Leviathans: strong AND powerful.
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It's called terran. Though landing on one is just calculated risk
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6 Jun 2005, 19:00
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#3
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uber pe0n
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 87
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Re: A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Link
How about a race, with extremely good defense, and extremely weak attack?
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sounds alot like terran with pds and pds will just stagnate the game if it is reintroduced
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Personally its not God I dislike, its his fan club I cant stand
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6 Jun 2005, 20:03
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#4
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The Original Terran
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Afghan atm
Posts: 1,633
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Re: A New Race Is Born
eeew PDS is all i can say.
p.s my ships arent week there just under nourished.
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The following is a list of problems found in various places throughout the manual and game. We love you Noah!
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Retired just for a bit....
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7 Jun 2005, 00:46
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#5
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Antagonist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 95
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Re: A New Race Is Born
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7 Jun 2005, 04:05
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#6
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The Nephilim
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 77
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Re: A New Race Is Born
Yea, it's already a nightmare trying to balance four...there's always a definitively strong race every round.
Melesse
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7 Jun 2005, 06:29
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: A New Race Is Born
I'd say yes to a 5th race if we could find one interesting to play, with a unique special ability... I keep searching but haven't found it yet...
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<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
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7 Jun 2005, 09:42
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 327
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Re: A New Race Is Born
PDS for one race wouldnt stagnate the game,.. but you would have to give them a class, because otherwize you have to introduce another ship for anti PDS
Also perhaps 1 PDS per ship type, thus you cant just keep building one up constantly, you have a wide range to deffend from.
Furthermore make them 14 tick construction time. This means you cant build quickly to an incomming, thus making you have to plan out your PDS more.
Terrens are kinda deffensive, high armour, expensive ships etc, and our attack does suck :P yes even leviathons because your dont have to kill many to make us recall, unless your fat as anything.
Terrens aint truly deffencsive anyway, could still higher the armour more. Give them the PDS (first init before anything) and then they would be able to rival the xans and the ziks
/me builds lots of anti fi PDS
If you dont want to make a fifth race, turn terren more deffencive, and give them PDS,..
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Rocko
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7 Jun 2005, 09:44
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#9
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PA Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
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Re: A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Link
How about a race, with extremely good defense, and extremely weak attack? Higher max alertness, higher standard alertness, we could give this race the ability to build pds - Planetarion Defense System - like turrets on a planet. (Not 10 sorts of them, 3 or perhaps 1 kind of turret that attacks all ship types would be great.) This would be a defensive race. It would be very good because of the turrets, but its attack would be weak in contrast to e.g. Leviathans: strong AND powerful.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANdrode
It's called terran. Though landing on one is just calculated risk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero
sounds alot like terran with pds and pds will just stagnate the game if it is reintroduced
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Actually, it depends. You have to differentiate between armour + damage, and attack/defence.
In fact, the best defensive race is obviously Xan. Terran is the best attacking race, as they're the hardest to stop (arguably) because of their high armour. Do you mean that this new race should be the most able to defend - low inits and armour and high firepower, or the one with the highest damage. Either way, we have it (in Terran / Xan)
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r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
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7 Jun 2005, 11:03
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#10
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God of Fire and Mischief
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Eindhoven
Posts: 135
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Re: A New Race Is Born
A new race is not a bad idea. Perhaps MY race is a bad idea. As for the pds, we could have every race build pds and the defensive races' pds would be very powerful. Then anti structures would hit pds and other structures except factories. Think factories should be immume .
I thought i clearly stated you should come up with some ideas too. There must be something we haven't got yet
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7 Jun 2005, 14:33
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: A New Race Is Born
the subverting ships was a good idea for a new race (but not as a substitute for zik). It would be fun to see subverters coming back as a 5th race. Subverting zik stealing ships would be great
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
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7 Jun 2005, 16:51
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#12
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God of Fire and Mischief
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Eindhoven
Posts: 135
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Re: A New Race Is Born
Hadn't thought of that... what was subverting again? I believe it was that Ziks turned your own ships on against you but they were still yours?
Good idea. We'd have a stealing and a subverting race. Subverting is good for battles themselves and Stealing for afterwards.
Last edited by Lοki; 7 Jun 2005 at 17:34.
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7 Jun 2005, 17:26
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#13
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zenguard
Join Date: May 2005
Location:
Posts: 58
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Re: A New Race Is Born
subverting was when you turned the enemy's ships against their own fleet, and after the battle, the enemy got his ships back
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7 Jun 2005, 19:07
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#14
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PA Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
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Re: A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Link
A new race is not a bad idea. Perhaps MY race is a bad idea. As for the pds, we could have every race build pds and the defensive races' pds would be very powerful. Then anti structures would hit pds and other structures except factories. Think factories should be immume .
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PDS is bad, that's why it was got rid of it . It's in the list of FAF as "not coming back", as it leads to stagnation and hording of PDS to be "defensive" which meant you got bashed to smitherines
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
the subverting ships was a good idea for a new race (but not as a substitute for zik). It would be fun to see subverters coming back as a 5th race. Subverting zik stealing ships would be great
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I don't really like the idea of subverting ships back, although I can't quite place a finger on why. The only things I can think of are that it's impossible to defend against in big enough numbers, and that it causes the structure "fun" via the unkillable ships.
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r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
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7 Jun 2005, 20:24
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#15
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Antagonist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 95
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Re: A New Race Is Born
hmmm maybe subverting might be ok if you can kill the ships being subverted or find a way to stop the green hostiles scenario happening again...but i dont really see a need for a new race
edit: but killing your own ships would suck..hmmm yeah subvertion sucks :P
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Every dark cloud has a silver lining, But Lightning kills hundreds of people each year who are trying to find it.
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7 Jun 2005, 20:34
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#16
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the Jinsomniac
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bergen
Posts: 49
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Re: A New Race Is Born
why would you want to be a race that is only decent to attack with? where is the fun in that? tbh, we dont need a new race unless someone comes up with a great idea that would be different than all other races.
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7 Jun 2005, 23:35
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 327
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Re: A New Race Is Born
On the PDS front, if it is lumbered in with the other constructions, and given a high building time, i dont think u'd get the same stagnation,.. people would either build some or none, in favour of getting other constrcutions, (research lab, amps, distorters, securit centres etc,..) or they wud focus on PDS, and then suffer loosing out on other benefits,...
The trouble in round 3 was that you had a section JUST for building PDS, and i think the construction time was quick to,...
A fifth race,... how about a race or "gypsie" types or somthing,..
Another stealing race to a degree,... 1 ship of each type, that steals its own,..
Poor armour, poor fire power,
Very good Cov-op (better then ziks and caths are atm)
give them 1 pod type of their own,
1 Strcture killing ship (same ship type)
Leaves 4 more ship types in the current sytem,... perhaps they could be run down versions of cath EMP ships,..
Constructiones cost less and is quicker (less armour as well if possible) (poorly built)
Research is quicker
Ship building slower
Perhaps, once they've stolen a ship, they can then make it, but a poorer quality of it
e.g Steal a phoenix, and then they can build Phoenix2 (so people can see it's not a normall version)
This Phoe will still target Co but have a bit less armour, and firepower, and cost the same.
Those are just some thoughts for you to try out,.. i think it's different enough,..
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Rocko
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7 Jun 2005, 23:56
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#18
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The Nephilim
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 77
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Re: A New Race Is Born
I liked Subverting...I actually liked it a little better then stealing...but not much. And def better then EMP. Or why don't we just specialize the races a little more? Maybe give Ziks the option of Subverting or Stealing, via a research. It would be nice to have an actual choice once again. Now it's pretty straightforward per race. There are a few choices...ie Drakes are better against attacking Xan, Syrens are better against attacking Zik, but those are few and far between. Some races really don't have much of a choice cause some of their ships are so terrible.
Melesse
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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.
Sun Tzu
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10 Jun 2005, 10:52
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#19
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Angels for life !
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,269
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Re: A New Race Is Born
How about a race that could 'hire' mercenaries of other races? Kinda like being able to "buy" ships from any other race (at a higher price) for a certain period (like 72 ticks) and then their contract ends (and maybe you get abit of the resources back).
That race would be an advanced race to play with, kinda like Zik, but with the HUGE advantage that the enemy doesn't know yuor strategy and the fact that you could change your tactic at any given point (e.g. switching from cath to xan fleet for example).
Ofcourse it needs to be well balanced. You have the huge advantage of creating a customized fleet with all ships available of the 4 races. so the race should have a high risk factor built in. Because mercenaries are never to be trusted.
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FAnG Founder | CEO/HC | Ex Gaming Community Senate
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10 Jun 2005, 13:55
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#20
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PA Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
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Re: A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
How about a race that could 'hire' mercenaries of other races? Kinda like being able to "buy" ships from any other race (at a higher price) for a certain period (like 72 ticks) and then their contract ends (and maybe you get abit of the resources back).
That race would be an advanced race to play with, kinda like Zik, but with the HUGE advantage that the enemy doesn't know yuor strategy and the fact that you could change your tactic at any given point (e.g. switching from cath to xan fleet for example).
Ofcourse it needs to be well balanced. You have the huge advantage of creating a customized fleet with all ships available of the 4 races. so the race should have a high risk factor built in. Because mercenaries are never to be trusted.
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You mean like, them disappearing randomly half way through a mission? a 1 in 10 chance that they go AWOL on any given mission, with a 50% chance you loose the ships forever and a 50% chance they launch, and after 2 ticks end up back at base?
I think this would be too hard to balance
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r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
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10 Jun 2005, 14:05
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#21
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PA Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
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Re: A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko
On the PDS front, if it is lumbered in with the other constructions, and given a high building time, i dont think u'd get the same stagnation,.. people would either build some or none, in favour of getting other constrcutions, (research lab, amps, distorters, securit centres etc,..) or they wud focus on PDS, and then suffer loosing out on other benefits,...
The trouble in round 3 was that you had a section JUST for building PDS, and i think the construction time was quick to,...
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er so how would you destroy them? with structure killers? I think this idea or something like it is on the declined forums, but I'd have to check. What would it target? how many of them? 6? fire first/last? (I'm assuming just before pods cap..)
Quote:
A fifth race,... how about a race or "gypsie" types or somthing,..
Another stealing race to a degree,... 1 ship of each type, that steals its own,..
Poor armour, poor fire power,
Very good Cov-op (better then ziks and caths are atm)
give them 1 pod type of their own,
1 Strcture killing ship (same ship type)
Leaves 4 more ship types in the current sytem,... perhaps they could be run down versions of cath EMP ships,..
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Ships targetting themselves are bad, as mentioned here. It makes it far easier to attack and add to your own fleet, and as most normal ships don't target their own classes also makes it easier to defend with them and grow (see no steal ship should be off class).
It'd be even worse than zik to either make very unplayable, or easily able to win.
Quote:
Constructiones cost less and is quicker (less armour as well if possible) (poorly built)
Research is quicker
Ship building slower
Perhaps, once they've stolen a ship, they can then make it, but a poorer quality of it
e.g Steal a phoenix, and then they can build Phoenix2 (so people can see it's not a normall version)
This Phoe will still target Co but have a bit less armour, and firepower, and cost the same.
Those are just some thoughts for you to try out,.. i think it's different enough,..
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The last bit (unless everything is decreased by a certain amount) would double the ship stats page, and has been declined here.
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r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
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10 Jun 2005, 15:40
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#22
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Angels for life !
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,269
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Re: A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster
You mean like, them disappearing randomly half way through a mission? a 1 in 10 chance that they go AWOL on any given mission, with a 50% chance you loose the ships forever and a 50% chance they launch, and after 2 ticks end up back at base?
I think this would be too hard to balance
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Yes it would be damn hard to ballance. But it's maybe a suggestion for the far future. I'd also suggest that the race is VERY strong but has a VERY HIGH risk rate, it can win you the round but it can easily ruin it completely.
your examples are nice scenario's that could happen. The attacker can have a too powerfull fleet, but he can risk to never see them again.
Another suggestion would be that the more different race ship they build, the more chance on a high risk since the races hate eachother and don't wanna work together (and even kill eachother rather then your real enemy) ...
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10 Jun 2005, 16:48
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#23
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PA Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
hehe: "what? my attack got owned? oh... Terrans and Caths killed each other again "
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r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
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20 Jun 2005, 19:07
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#24
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God of Fire and Mischief
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Eindhoven
Posts: 135
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
A self destruct race
Devasting ships once they hit, but will always die: either killed or not killed. They can be stopped, of cource. Only roiders will survive after an attack: the roids can't just teleport. This would make the race pretty hard to play. You'd really have to adjust the ships to your attack. As you wouldn't want to blow up your own planet or your allies', they would also have pretty weak normal attack for defense. Not all ships should have this, just like not all Cat ships have EMP or not all Zik ships have stealing. Because the self destruct will only happen once they come through, they would have the highest init of all. Though they could (cross)fire with the weak weapons they also have for defense.
Could be another of my bad ideas. You tell me
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21 Jun 2005, 05:54
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#25
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Commodore
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 3,176
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Link
Could be another of my bad ideas. You tell me
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Players tend to attack for two reasons: roids and XP (yes, i know there are variations, but generally speaking).
When attacking for roids, players are looking to minimise their losses and maximise their roid gain, typically using a large fleet and scaring away their enemies ('lo Xans) and sending these fleets against equal or smaller planets. This leads to a positive score gain by increase the net value of your planet.
The other, XP (wh0ring), is where small planets send fleets that are likely to die (or worse - get stolen) but capture roids from a much larger planet. This means there is a net positive score gain, whilst a value loss.
With the race you are proposing, where the attacking fleet dies outright (pods can still die - eg, being stolen after capping roids), means that attacking for score it out of the question - and attacking for XP is the only possible outcome. This is not neccessarily a bad thing, but it would make half of the stategy of this game pointless (ie, minimising losses).
I think there would have to be a race-specific bonus with XP for that race as well, as when you think about it, their ships would always be dying - they would never accumulate any value and be next to useless for alliance defence or personal defence after the beginning period of the round.
Also, it raises the question of what to do about lemming attacks - say you have a 5th race planet, it gets attacked by 1 Interceptor. 5th race's planet ships have been engaged in battle, and thus die. I see this as a problem.
At least they dont have to worry about being fleetcaught .
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21 Jun 2005, 14:11
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#26
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God of Fire and Mischief
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Eindhoven
Posts: 135
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Not all ships should have this, just like not all Cat ships have EMP or not all Zik ships have stealing.
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Perhaps like half of them? One class (including roider) that does not destroy itself and one that does
***think I placed some things in the wrong order***
Quote:
As you wouldn't want to blow up your own planet or your allies', they would also have pretty weak normal attack for defense.
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Perhaps this is hard to code, but in this example my race wouldn't die defending. They'd need lots and lots of ships if they are using self-destructing ships for defense (as they are weak).
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21 Jun 2005, 19:19
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#27
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Rage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 26
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
What about some sort of pirate race. A race that uses stolen ship types. Say their largest ship is a frigate since they can't take anything larger. Give them a selection of ships from all the other 4 races and thats what they can build but also they have several pod class ships, say 4 maybe 5. This would leave them 8 ships slots left, say 2 frigates 3 co's and 3 fi type picked from the other races. They can't have any zik stealers (the nanobots dont allow themselves to be stolen etc)
Their ships would obvioulsy be extremely weak(much weaker then the original races counterpart) since they are little more then scrap but they would also be extremely cheap for them to produce. Unit and fleet scans would not work on this race. They would be very difficult to effectively defend against but then quite easy to attack.
The design needs a lot of ironing but this could add a bit of extra spice to the game if it is truly needed.
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Hope Is The First Step On The Road To Disapointment
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21 Jun 2005, 19:28
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#28
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The beertender
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 73
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
nice idea seen as then the stat's will be a bit more fair but takes a long time before the race is fully implemented
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21 Jun 2005, 19:53
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#29
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PA Team
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dovai
What about some sort of pirate race. A race that uses stolen ship types. Say their largest ship is a frigate since they can't take anything larger. Give them a selection of ships from all the other 4 races and thats what they can build but also they have several pod class ships, say 4 maybe 5. This would leave them 8 ships slots left, say 2 frigates 3 co's and 3 fi type picked from the other races. They can't have any zik stealers (the nanobots dont allow themselves to be stolen etc)
Their ships would obvioulsy be extremely weak(much weaker then the original races counterpart) since they are little more then scrap but they would also be extremely cheap for them to produce. Unit and fleet scans would not work on this race. They would be very difficult to effectively defend against but then quite easy to attack.
The design needs a lot of ironing but this could add a bit of extra spice to the game if it is truly needed.
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If it only has Fi, Co and Fr, why does it need more than 3 pod ships?
What makes this suggestion a bit confusing is the fact you're using this race is "stealing" ships - but it's not the same stealing as Zik. What you mean is that they have managed to assemble / buy / "borrow" ships from the races, and from them made cheaper, worse copies.
It seems to be a mix between Xan and Zik, really. Obviously it'll be popular for defence - so many low class ships.
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r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
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21 Jun 2005, 19:55
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#30
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Avenger of Calamari
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 939
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
At least they dont have to worry about being fleetcaught .
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Death by harpy. What a bad way to go
That pirate idea looks interesting tbh... The cheap and flimsy sounds like xan atm =p but... hrm, definitely potential. When you say "weaker" versions... are you implying a decrease in armor? damage? or both? and how about the cost..... how much will they be decreasing?
/me keeps an eyeball on this thread
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21 Jun 2005, 20:07
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#31
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[APA]
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England
Posts: 23
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
Not quite sure what your suggesting but maybe somehting along the lines of you collect the "wreckage" of a battle and have the ability to reassemble the wreckage for a small price but this cost is very small. Obviously the reassembled wreckage is weaker in armour but has the special ability of the wreckage eg: cloak , EMP. But the race has its own version of the ship, like all EMP wreckage goes into the races shiptype etc.
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21 Jun 2005, 22:34
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#32
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Rage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 26
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
OK, Appoco first. My mistake, 3 pod types would probably do anyway although maybe give them a(just 1) destroyer kill type and then 4 pod types.
Squidly. That would be up to the PA team to decide. However my indeed was to make them weaker in every sense, armour damage and then decrease the costs accordingly.
Spur. No No No
The pirate race would have a mix of ships from all races as its buildable ships. It would still have 12 ships like the other races. The stealing part is just part of their story. They would have no steal capabilities. They would however have a couple ships with cloaks stolen from the Xan and the odd emp ship stolen from Caths. They would be a full mixed race, just as if they had picked up ships from all over the universe and used them for their own purposes.
I've continued to think about this idea. All races have advantages/disadvantage depending on the race, ie building a tick faster or researching a tick slower etc. The pirates could have a -3 tick research (pirates are not scientists) but a 3 tick increase on production since they are basically just modifying ships for their own use. Also a small mining disadvantage might be reasonable since they wouldn't have the high tech equipment of other races.
This could be the twist that separates this race from Xans and Ziks or maybe this race needs somthing else to separate it from all the others, let me know what you think.
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21 Jun 2005, 22:51
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#33
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[APA]
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England
Posts: 23
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
Ahh understand now, i agree it would be a good idea would solve the problem of people saying other type of ships in a race would spoil and and make it ununique. The question is however, how to make this race unique. Maybe if bring back the idea of differnt ships have differnt production times and all the cloak ships, emp ships etc have a longer production time than the pirates own ship. obviously with only having stolen technology there should be technology they are unable to achive e.g: battleships, scanning etc. and because they are pirates they have a ship Which steals res. from the defender.
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21 Jun 2005, 23:06
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#34
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Rage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 26
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
Yes! A resource stealing ship would be perfect. Depending on the number you have would effect how much you steal. Also to combat the idea of simply spending your res before pirates land the pirates would be able to take as much res from the planet as their res-stealers can possibly take, wether it's at the planet or not.
Also pirates should get a larger amount of salvage then normal races.
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Hope Is The First Step On The Road To Disapointment
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21 Jun 2005, 23:11
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#35
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home wrecker
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The other side of the galaxy ;)
Posts: 1,041
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
will people please stop thinking in the "I want super ships/ fleet!!!" mode?
It's the same school of thought that brings you game mods which try to be top heavy balancing, but really end up being all the best bits from lots of different teams in one team so you can have everything you wanted.
(ever played the Generals Zero Hour mods?)
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21 Jun 2005, 23:18
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#36
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Rage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 26
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
This is hardly the best bits now is it? The ships this race would have are weak as piss. They take forever to research these crappy ships. This would be a race (if done right) that would be very hard to play but very rewarding if you learn how to play them well.
I'm not suggesting we just take all the best ships from each race, put them together and call it a 5th race so dont be a jerk...
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Hope Is The First Step On The Road To Disapointment
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21 Jun 2005, 23:27
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#37
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[APA]
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England
Posts: 23
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
To make it harder you could make the stolen tech ships 1) more expensive 2) longer time to build 3) weaker armour then the tech it was stolen from. its not like you hve to choose the best ships from ech race to make a super fleet its just selected ships which allow you to use the technology but re not really the races best ships. And i dont see anyone suggesting every races best ships should be thrown into one rce coz that is pointless. I dont see how it can do anything but add more tactics to the game if theres another race to deal with.
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22 Jun 2005, 11:07
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#38
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God of Fire and Mischief
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Eindhoven
Posts: 135
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
Quote:
The pirates could have a -3 tick research (pirates are not scientists) but a 3 tick increase on production since they are basically just modifying ships for their own use.
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You mean +3 research... takes longer and a 3 DEcrease on production time... FASTER. Btw, i'd make this +2 and -1. Imagine -3... you'd be able to build ships in like 3 ticks...
And a race NOT getting fleetcaught OR unit scanned? idd feels like a super race to me. Since all ships are cheap you won't be able to guess anything about the content of your attacker's fleet. I'd take this advantage out.
Perhaps my self-destruct idea could be added... a terrorist/hijacker/pirate race!
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22 Jun 2005, 11:54
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#39
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[APA]
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England
Posts: 23
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
it wouldnt have to be cheap the stolen technology ships could be worth more thn the pirates own ships.
e.g a xan fighter costs 550 of each res for a xan. then for the pirates it could have an increse in production time and be worth 650 of ech res.
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22 Jun 2005, 12:19
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#40
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Tilting at windmills
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 579
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
I realise the temptation for more races is strong for the more stuff = better crowd; but hold fire on that one, there is no logical reason why we need to introduce a new race. It wont add balance to the stats, and there is no way to make such a race unique given the current game mechanics.
I would rather put forward a more controversial opinion, rather than increasing the race count; what if we Decreased the number of races.
Logically the premise is of the same order as increasing the race count, except it has a number of spinoff 'benefits'. Terran seem a rather dull and boring race in terms of 'uniquenes', and Cath are continually lumped with useless normal firing shiptypes. Why not combine the two races? Have decent normal and EMP shiptypes in for the smaller classes, then perhaps if you want, have people choose between EMP crusiers and Terran BS for the latter shiptypes, ala R3.
You get rid of the Cathaar problem in one sweep, they cant be underpowered. And to make up the shortfall in ships you add a couple of extra shiptypes to each race (perhaps). There, its much easier to balance, you have three distinctly unique and interesting races and the podclasses are split 2/2/2.
I realise "Less is more" is not a particularly popular view for those frothing at the mouth "bigger superduper capitalships and a superrace with thousandsofgunsbutmakeitreallyexpensive" folks.
But why not?
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22 Jun 2005, 12:33
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#41
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[APA]
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England
Posts: 23
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
I dont see why every 1 is going on about a super race? i dont think any one is suggesting this they are meerly trying to suggest a new approach. I just see how a race which for example: destroys all its ships at the target is "super" it may be effective but u will have to rebuild the destroyed ships every time. And alot of people want the ability to use other ship types in a race without losing what makes it the race what it is. A pirate race of source would allow this and there are several posts from people saying they want differnt ship types to play with. Its not like people are asking Terrans Battleships, Xan Fighters and Cat Cruisers all to be in the same race because who in their right mind would chose that race. But a new race which has "stolen" ships technology already could have select ships not a super duper mega race which cant be beaten. A new race may not balence the races completly but it cant harm the game to have a new race on the scene
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22 Jun 2005, 12:51
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#42
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Tilting at windmills
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 579
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
Whether its a super race or whether its a normal race is really irrelevant.
An extra race CAN and WILL hurt the game, it will make an already impossibly difficult set of mechanics near impossible to effectivly balance.
Its pointless and simply an addition for an additions sake. The game isnt going to be any more fun if you bolt on another ad hoc attachment like another race.
Removing one of the races gives you a lot more benefits than adding one in, and I am of the opinion that this point should be debated before we start talking of extra races.
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22 Jun 2005, 13:09
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#43
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Rage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 26
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
Cooling, why dont you go back and read the whole post?
Dark Link, the whole point of this race is that you don't know whats coming at you or what is defending agsint you but you will always know that whatever fleet this race has, its ramshakle. People playing this race would have to pick their targets very carefully to have much chance of getting through defense. Most people should have ships to counter all pod types, this race would have no new pod type. Just fighters, corvettes, frigates, and destroyers. If you can defend against a terrans DE fleet then you should be able to mop the floor with a pirate DE fleet etc.
As for the research and Production, yes thats what i meant. Production in 3 ticks might be possible but this is just part of the random nature of the pirates. Remember that the ships will cost more and be less effective then the original. For instance if onee of this races fighters was Harpy it would be slightly more expensive then a normal Terran Harpy and do less damage. That makes for a pretty crumby fighter right?
This race woud relie a lot on the player to make wise choices on which targets to hit. It may even be that pirate planets would need to join other races for their attacks or depend on other races to soften targets first which would fit with the scavenger background.
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Hope Is The First Step On The Road To Disapointment
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22 Jun 2005, 15:45
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 17
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Logically the premise is of the same order as increasing the race count, except it has a number of spinoff 'benefits'. Terran seem a rather dull and boring race in terms of 'uniquenes', and Cath are continually lumped with useless normal firing shiptypes. Why not combine the two races? Have decent normal and EMP shiptypes in for the smaller classes, then perhaps if you want, have people choose between EMP crusiers and Terran BS for the latter shiptypes, ala R3.
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I agree with Cooling however I also like the idea of the Pirate race so what I propose is to combine the two ideas. To make everything smoothe and conform with PA history we could say the terran finally conquered the cathaar and began to utilize their technology. The gap created by this new combined race leaves room for the Pirate race to enter from the dark depths of the galaxy (or something like that). That way the following rounds will be more interestign and not a mess with 5 races
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22 Jun 2005, 17:15
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#45
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Rage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 26
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
That is a possiblitie although what you have to remember is that if the terrans conquer the caths and take their technology then a new idea would be needed for the pirates. We couldn't ahve 2 races with a high mix of kill and emp ships, they might aswell just be the same race then.
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Hope Is The First Step On The Road To Disapointment
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22 Jun 2005, 20:20
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#46
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God of Fire and Mischief
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Eindhoven
Posts: 135
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
The potential is there, we just need to work things out a bit more...
This topic is ofc also usable to purpose merging races. In fact you'd create a new race
Though I don't know if the current new-race ideas, including mine (which have double fire, seems really hard to code) are really good. Balance is the most important of all, as Cooling said. But this round was far away from balancing. Therefor, when we design a new race, don't be too enthusiastic in terms of stats. Better one weak race than one that is overpowered, like zik.
Don't get me wrong. I'm still in full favour of a new race
Think... we can't have had everything yet.
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22 Jun 2005, 20:23
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#47
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 17
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
We just have to think of something crazy and never heard of before like maybe the new race can research and build a workshop where they could purchase attack and defensive modifications for their ships. That way they could modify their fleets in how they see fit. There are a couple problems with that idea including battle calc and coding problems but it would be crazy
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22 Jun 2005, 21:10
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#48
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Registered Awesome Person
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,676
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs
i duno a new race would be good. Maybe something along the line a race which a special breed of ships which is targetted by everything and acts as flak/cannon fodder when defending, therefore it draws some of the fire away from the attacking ships.
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So anyone going this race has to sacrifice themselves for other people?
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22 Jun 2005, 21:26
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#49
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[APA]
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: England
Posts: 23
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
no i'm saying the race has a special breed of ship just like , Emp, Steal etc. That it draws fire doesnt have to be loads of ships just one ship amongst normal ships of the race.
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23 Jun 2005, 03:18
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#50
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 17
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Re: [Discuss]A New Race Is Born
I'm sorry but I find what you are saying pointless and stupid. No one would chose that race unless they were cheating and used it for defense as a multi
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