Documentation on Government Change?

[Zaejii]

because support obviously won't help me on this issue (well, the multihunters in support say its none of my business).

regarding the government changes that happened today (that have been posted a few times already), my main concern is only a portion of it:

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

As there was confusion on the issue, we are clarifying it and adjusting it accordingly.

does anyone have documentation of any of these complaints or confusion? i know its futile to ask for resets / rollbacks / compensation, but if there was enough confusion it seems as if it would be out in public and documented instead of in some private chat log unavailable to everyone. especially considering that the same government system was in effect last round, and no reset was needed.

[torstein.gran@g]

At tick 36, the feudualism bonuses will be adjusted as follows:
Production Cost: -15% (from -20%)
Production Time: +35% (from +15%)

This is to counter the fact that production times are based on spent resources, not the value of the ships, which makes a difference for feudualism as they automatically get a bonus for production time inherent in the fact they pay less for ships.

As there was confusion on the issue, we are clarifying it and adjusting it accordingly.


ahhhhhhh they got their ships to fast so we adjusted the Production Time: +35% (from +15%) but thats not all,it looks like they will pay less for ships also???? big suprice??? u had to fix that to???

All the information you need on Governments is found on the page before you set your Government. Each government has different bonus' and hinderances which can affect Mining levels, Research/Construction/Production Times, Product Costs, Stealth Level and Alert Level. Again all this is detailed on this page before you make your final decision for a type of government.

Please note that your decision needs to be made properly because you can only set your Government once each round, just like your race. You will not get a chance to change your Government nor will the Game Administration change it upon request. You stick with your choice.

or have someone actualy seen that people whit Dictatorship gets:
20% FASTER construction.
5% HIGHER production cost
25% HIGHER stealth
20% HIGHER alert

i didddent know that,please change it

x3

[Zaejii]

well, since no confusions are appearing, i guess i'll ask the other stupid question.

instead of resetting governments, which, in the manual states:

Please note that your decision needs to be made properly because you can only set your Government once each round, just like your race. You will not get a chance to change your Government nor will the Game Administration change it upon request. You stick with your choice.

why not allow the people that made "incorrect" choices due to "confusion" to reset their accounts or delete and make a new one, instead of giving those that chose one government in the beginning, and now will change to another one after the reset, an advantage? (Demo from tick 0 -> Feud at tick 52 seems to be the popular).

yes, it is beating a dead horse, but why accommodate someone that was "confused" (which seems to be a non-existent crowd) while at the same time benefiting another group of players by helping them get a research / resource head start, then changing to cheaper production / slower research? clearly, the manual says, "You stick with your choice." why even have a manual?

[Makhil]

Why was this problem not found during the "professional" beta ? Is it possible that some people were aware of it but decided to hut up to take advantage of it during the real game ?

[Almeida]

ok, there is one thing that i don't understand: why was the bonus of cheaper ships tweaked from 20% down to 15%

wtf does that have to do with the production time? wouldn't increasing the production slowing from 15% to 35% be enough?

[paolo]

PA Team might want to edit the Population page.. It still displays the old situation

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by torstein.gran@g

or have someone actualy seen that people whit Dictatorship gets:
5% HIGHER production cost

That means your ships are 5% more expensive, not 5% cheaper .

Originally Posted by Almeida

ok, there is one thing that i don't understand: why was the bonus of cheaper ships tweaked from 20% down to 15%

wtf does that have to do with the production time? wouldn't increasing the production slowing from 15% to 35% be enough?

Because when you go to production and place a new order, the resource cost of the order is used to determine how big the order is, thus if the order cost is reduced by 20% because of the feudalism "bonus", then the production time is reduced by some amount as well.

What i suppose Appoco has done, is some calcs to see how much the feudalism bonus was altering the ETA on the production of ships, and then attempted to neutralise it - ie, -15%/+35% would be negating any alteration in the expected time for a production order to complete, thus making it "fair" to all the other governments.

Originally Posted by Makhil

Why was this problem not found during the "professional" beta ? Is it possible that some people were aware of it but decided to hut up to take advantage of it during the real game ?

Its hard to tell what is accidental, and what is a feature. I think i might have been at fault when i pointed it out yesterday on the forums, but i noticed it earlier (when the production time formula was announced, which clearly used resource cost instead of fleet score which is used in most other things like salvage calculations) - i just thought that it was deliberately done like this.

Sorry

[robban1]

why on earth do pa ppl run beta as nothing comes from it?? waste of time and dudes who applies to only wants to gain info about stats and getting an advantage etc.

think its about time the pa team tries to think rational about stuff, stats didnt get balanced during beta, all the new coding crap is flawed, hard to get = boring, nerf goverment after tick started..

well its free so aparently its ok to noob around, good job team

now we just have to wait for the usual tickstop around tick 72 then the ticker crash hehe

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by Zaejii

why not allow the people that made "incorrect" choices due to "confusion" to reset their accounts or delete and make a new one, instead of giving those that chose one government in the beginning, and now will change to another one after the reset, an advantage? (Demo from tick 0 -> Feud at tick 52 seems to be the popular).

Three things come immediately to mind;
1) Manually changing hundreds of people is time consuming, and only a select few people can actually do it, thus there might be time when they are offline and people are "missing ticks" and then demand to be "compensated" as they're "missing out" due to "no fault of their own".

2) In order to have taken full advantage of this, you'd need to have known in advance that this was going to a) be "discovered" (ie, the issue wasnt actually intentional) and b) that PA team was actually going to do something about it (which tends to be unlikely, as mid-round changes are generally bad).

3) By penalising anyone who did just pick democracy (like i did, i couldnt decide between the two), you punish people who now have had their perspective on which government is best actually altered, given that the change in relative strength of the governments has altered. So, that isnt a good way to go about it either.

yes, it is beating a dead horse, but why accommodate someone that was "confused" (which seems to be a non-existent crowd) while at the same time benefiting another group of players by helping them get a research / resource head start, then changing to cheaper production / slower research? clearly, the manual says, "You stick with your choice." why even have a manual?

Ultimately, its the lesser of (many) evils. Sometimes, every choice you make is bad, just some are worse than others. I think this is one of those times .

[Rinoa]

I could comment here and answer the question asked in the original post but my brown envelop is far too big :P

Any way the problem wasnt found out till after tickstart and was missed in the beta, so what is happening 2moro with people able to reset their goverments seems a fair and neeeded compromise. I respect the way the pa team have handled it instead of letting 50 or so people suffer for a choice they made based on information supplied by pa team that was wrong.

So enough talk about it just need to know u can change ur race again and tis time think abut it !

[Zaejii]

Originally Posted by Rinoa

I respect the way the pa team have handled it instead of letting 50 or so people suffer for a choice they made based on information supplied by pa team that was wrong.

50 people out of ~2,000 accounts warranted this change? go go vocal minority.

[Mzyxptlk]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

In order to have taken full advantage of this, you'd need to have known in advance that this was going to a) be "discovered" (ie, the issue wasnt actually intentional)

You do realise this makes you a prime suspect?

[AV.]

But you have to admit that really none of this helps those of us who blindly clicked on dictatorship because governments never used to be in PA and you didn't really have time to read into the details. Does it?

Or does it, maybe I can jump ship now. Or maybe this is an OK ship to be on now? Am I going to have to read the notes on this or will somebody just analayse in great detail the effectiveness of every possible change now they've announced this? That would be great.

[Achilles]

You want to be Feudalism. Stay Dictatorship till PT 52 for the faster cons times and then cancel. Don't choose Feudalism until later on when you have more research done though.

As regards the changes: I don't really see how PATeam had much of a choice. At least they caught the problem in time and fixed it, what more do people want? Now we just have to hope that was the only problem