HTML - Framesets

[Obliterate]

I am using framesets in HTML. Currently, my page looks as it is supposed to on all the browsers i've tested it on (IE 5.2, Safari 1.0, Mozilla 1.5 and Opera 6.03). Here is the code:

<frameset rows="141,*" cols="*" frameborder="NO" border="0" framespacing="0">
  <frameset rows="*,35" cols="*" framespacing="0" frameborder="NO" border="0">
    <frame src="topframe.html" name="topFrame" scrolling="NO" noresize >
    <frame src="linksframe.html" name="bottomFrame" scrolling="NO" noresize>
  </frameset>
  <frameset rows="*" cols="163,*" framespacing="0" frameborder="no" border="0">
    <frame src="leftframe.html" name="leftFrame" scrolling="NO" noresize>
    <frame src="mainframe.html" name="mainFrame">
  </frameset>
</frameset>

However, when I put the code through a validator I get the following errors:

Line 6, column 44: there is no attribute "FRAMEBORDER" (explain...).
Line 6, column 56: there is no attribute "BORDER" (explain...).
Line 6, column 73: there is no attribute "FRAMESPACING" (explain...).

So, I remove the offending code and it validates fine, but when I test the page it only looks like it's supposed to in IE. In Mozilla, Opera and Safari - the edges of the frames could be seen on the page. (As can be seen in these screenshots).

So, basically what I'm asking is what is the correct code to make the page appear like it does in IE - or should I not worry too much about perfect code, and leave the "offending attributes" in there?

[pablissimo]

Are you validating it as HTML 4.01 Frameset, or just Transitional or Strict or what?

[Obliterate]

Originally Posted by pablissimo

Are you validating it as HTML 4.01 Frameset, or just Transitional or Strict or what?

Sorry, yeah I'm validating it as HTML 4.01 Frameset

[pablissimo]

Well for a start the HTML4.01 specs say that you can't have a FRAMEBORDER attribute in anything but a FRAME tag, whereas you've got it in a FRAMESET tag.

Also, the HTML4.01 Frameset specs make no mention at all of attributes called BORDER or FRAMESPACING.

[Obliterate]

Originally Posted by pablissimo

Well for a start the HTML4.01 specs say that you can't have a FRAMEBORDER attribute in anything but a FRAME tag, whereas you've got it in a FRAMESET tag.

Also, the HTML4.01 Frameset specs make no mention at all of attributes called BORDER or FRAMESPACING.

Yeah I'm aware it's not valid HTML

What I'm asking is how can I make my page look the same as when I use the invalid HTML, but by using valid HTML

[pablissimo]

I should have read the whole post =((
Edit: try

body {
border: 0px;
}

in the CSS file of 'something' if you're allowed it

[Obliterate]

Originally Posted by pablissimo

I should have read the whole post =((
Edit: try

body {
border: 0px;
}

in the CSS file of 'something' if you're allowed it

nope, that didn't work

I'm using CSS for the dotted line border in the left frame anyway, and the frame border appears slightly to the right of that.

[pablissimo]

Move the FRAMEBORDER attributes into the FRAME tags?

Though tbh if it renders in all the major browsers I'd leave it.

[Obliterate]

Originally Posted by pablissimo

Move the FRAMEBORDER attributes into the FRAME tags?

Though tbh if it renders in all the major browsers I'd leave it.

Just tried that - the frameborders changed to white lines

I think i'll just leave it now, don't think any browser will have trouble rendering it tbh.

[Leshy]

Frames are crappy for a variety of reasons (inability to link to specific pages, people arriving on a sub-page and being unable to navigate, etc.) If you can in any way switch to a frameless layout, do so. If you do have a specific need for frames whatsoever that you simply can't get around, use <iframe> instead.

Edit: Decided to have a looksie anyway. It appears that all attributes other than 'rows' and 'cols' are deprecated for <frameset>, so there is no way to get a frameset without any border using valid (X)HTML. So if you do want to use frames without borders in between, you're going to have to be naughty and do this (also, there's no need for nesting in two framesets).

<frameset rows='141,35,*' border='0'>
  <frame src='topframe.html' name='topFrame' scrolling='no' noresize='noresize'>
  <frame src='linksframe.html' name='bottomFrame' scrolling='no'>
  <frameset cols='163,*'>
    <frame src='leftframe.html' name='leftFrame' scrolling='no' noresize='noresize'>
    <frame src='mainframe.html' name='mainFrame'>
  </frameset>
</frameset>

[mbushell]

Originally Posted by Leshy

<frameset rows="141,35,*" border="0">
  <frame src="topframe.html" name="topFrame" scrolling="no" noresize="noresize">
  <frame src="linksframe.html" name="bottomFrame" scrolling="no">
  <frameset cols="163,*">
    <frame src="leftframe.html" name="leftFrame" scrolling="no" noresize="noresize">
    <frame src="mainframe.html" name="mainFrame">
  </frameset>
</frameset>

fixed

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by mbushell

fixed

Both " and ' are allowed and work equally well. I prefer '.

[mbushell]

single quotes look ugly in html i reckon

[Gayle29uk]

Frames are evil and should be banned. Not as banned as <blink> though!

[Leshy]

Originally Posted by mbushell

single quotes look ugly in html i reckon

Personally, I feel single quotes look less intrusive. Especially when working with PHP it's more convenient to use single quote for HTML and double quotes for PHP values.

Originally Posted by Gayle29uk

Frames are evil and should be banned. Not as banned as <blink> though!

Both <blink> and <marquee>. For some reason they've been added to Opera as well now