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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:15   #101
Almeida
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniborp
My condolences and respect go to eXiltion HC if you are anything to go by as an eX member.

Back to the topic. Congratulations on a good decision.

And would someone like to give a ratio on number of def fleets sent to alliance/gal members : number of def fleets sent to non alliance/ non galaxy members?
now u little smartass, same question i asked phil goes to u; feel free to elighten me
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:18   #102
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeida
really? which scan does give u the info if a planet is in a specific tag ingame? u know i can defend for example ToF without beeing in their tag and noone will ever find out if i am in their tag or not. so pls enlighten me how those established alliances do find that out
are you REALLY that thick as to require it spelling out to you. very well

Planet gets attacked, reports the incoming to his alliance.
over time , the cumulated def calls get matched up so you can work out who attacks with who, and from there piece it together into what you think is an alliance.
add into this gal status pastes, jgps, and known information about planets - say from their def channel names, their gal forums and so on.

its not hard to piece together, its how your own alliance had the bulk of 1ups coords early on and were able to target them effectively

now, for your own good, get a clue and dont post here again until you have one.
you're an embarassment, seriously
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:20   #103
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Re: New Rule

You dont even have to do that:| DO people even know how to play nowadays:O
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:25   #104
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Re: New Rule

this is pd not ad :P
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:27   #105
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incredible


I must say i totally agree. I wonder who control the PA team
Obviously not eXi




Too funny not to post.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:30   #106
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Re: New Rule

very nice pa team. i'm impressed you finally handle things like this. it's been going on for FAR too long. Besides that if you play fair you won't have any problems with this rule being implemented tbh. seeing as it won't affect you then.
As said if a planet is really a scanplanet it will show. simple as that really. about time something like this is implemented as to be quite honest it is VERY necessary.

it would be nice if pa team made an announcement on clusters tho. but i guess that should be banned aswell for people in top 10 alliances at least aswell as people can simply exile their support accounts or share in groups of friends or alliances.

also i would hope pa team check so people who use support accounts don't suddenly defend other alliances constantly and get them closed for it....but i suppose you'll check into that

anyways good job pa team. don't mind the moaning... heh
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:30   #107
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storebo
Uhm.... they are SCANNERS ffs.. the focus on building amps and be able to save their alliance from landing on loads of defence. Sid said scanners where left outside the tag.. yes.... and they don't do defence.. they speciallise on scans. They can continue helping the alliance with scans.
And so now, I have all the scans needed for the alliance, a nice number of amps that i can continue to build on. Let's say i wish to start attacking, I must attack solo? After all if i join an alliance attack I must just be there to soak up defence! I see a defence call that i can cover, noone else is around, the person i have supported with scans for the last 3-4 weeks must be left to die? Should I join some other tag so that they may defend me, I can defend them and help me attack? Isn't this known as ship jumping?
There are many ways to play this game, some attack, they go for roids and score. Some defend, they like the satisfaction of saving a friends roids. Some scan, they help the alliance to grow, support attacks and defence.
Anyway, suffice to say, I disagree with this new ruling, if planets are being closed for being secondary planets used for defence then great, the mh team is catching the multi's. Closing people for helping old friends or supporting an alliance (or two), is imho wrong.
That's all I feel I have to say on the matter.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:30   #108
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
Have you guys totally lost it? Have you no brains at all anymore?

You decide to change the rules midgame, and that's like removing the offside rule in the middle of a football game.

You just DONT do IT!

I will definitly leave PA after this round ...snip
No, they have not lost it. And actually, this shows that some people in support still have brains.

I wonder what the hell is it you do when you start something and realize it's not working as it should. Maybe you say, "oh it's f*cked, but i can't make any changes right now so let's keep it like that and let the shit grow bigger". Most people with brains take appropriate corrective actions when they realize things are not working as they should. And yes, imo, stat changes also fall under that category.
By changing the rules, they change them for all players, so i see no harm, except for those who found a way to exploit potential holes in the former rules. All in all, i wonder why so many people complain about something that makes the most sense among all PA team decissions so far.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:33   #109
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
How can you justify doing this, how the HELL can you justify doing this? Radical changes mid game is what is killing PA. You see everyone complain about the uberness of the TZEN and you do nothing.

You see someone complain about people getting defence and you react?

Have you guys totally lost it? Have you no brains at all anymore?

You decide to change the rules midgame, and that's like removing the offside rule in the middle of a football game.

You just DONT do IT!


I will definitly leave PA after this round because i've had it with an incompetent PA crew who never listens when someone raises questions and issues but react while others do it. This favourism i've been seeing from the PA crew this last round clearly indicates that they are "bought" and corrupted.
I totally 200% agree. Why? Because I've been posting the exact same stuff every time PA team made a dumb midround change.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:35   #110
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBerk
And so now, I have all the scans needed for the alliance, a nice number of amps that i can continue to build on. Let's say i wish to start attacking, I must attack solo? After all if i join an alliance attack I must just be there to soak up defence! I see a defence call that i can cover, noone else is around, the person i have supported with scans for the last 3-4 weeks must be left to die? Should I join some other tag so that they may defend me, I can defend them and help me attack? Isn't this known as ship jumping?
There are many ways to play this game, some attack, they go for roids and score. Some defend, they like the satisfaction of saving a friends roids. Some scan, they help the alliance to grow, support attacks and defence.
Anyway, suffice to say, I disagree with this new ruling, if planets are being closed for being secondary planets used for defence then great, the mh team is catching the multi's. Closing people for helping old friends or supporting an alliance (or two), is imho wrong.
That's all I feel I have to say on the matter.
If you play to defend your alliance join the fcking tag. Why do you think an alliance limit has been set? Regarding scan planets you shouldnt have to join the tag of course but as soon as you function as a def whore as well you should. I say it again, good call pa.

And Almeida: Sending ships inside the alliance is -1 eta remember? so scanning the target planets every tick you see if the def fleets are alliance or not...
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:40   #111
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storebo
Also... scan planets are scan planets.. If they are outside the tag.. can't they just stick to just scanning and leave defending to the ones inside the tag? They limit the size in order to make large factions harder and to make the round more fluid as the memberbase keeps shrinking and to large alliances will destroy the round way to early. If an alliance have 50 extra planets.. real life friends or multies whatever... it is still and unfair advantage.
Pretty dumb comment coming from a 1up player since 1up has been using scanners with 1 or 2 major def fleets.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:41   #112
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Re: New Rule

eXi in huge roidless *shocker* tonight? LOL
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:43   #113
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by cypher
very nice pa team. i'm impressed you finally handle things like this. it's been going on for FAR too long. Besides that if you play fair you won't have any problems with this rule being implemented tbh. seeing as it won't affect you then.
Sure cypher, like your midround race change in round 13, without the admins removing your ships, which they did for ANYONE ELSE who asked about a race change, was fair? rofl, don't be a hypocrite.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:45   #114
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Re: New Rule

Best solution in my opinion is raise the alliance limit so that a number of scanners can enter an alliance, and then hardcode defense missions to be sent only to ingame alliance members. Bit of a shame that PA has come to this but alas.

An alternative could be that alliances can add like 10 scanners to their ingame tag, so these scanners are ingame, but do not get a bonus of -1 on ETA while defending, but can be defended themselves by bigger players with the ETA -1 bonus. (exploitable if not implented correctly btw).
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:46   #115
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Re: New Rule

I must say I am 100% behind this rule.

And to all of you who wish to "contribute and repay my friends" -> THE TAG IS THERE FOR A REASON. IF YOU ARE A DEFWHORE, YOU ARE A PART OF AN ALLIANCE. JOIN THE ALLIANCE TAG.

As for scanners, a scanner should specialize in scans, as soon as she/he starts roiding and/or defwhoring, I don't see why they shouldn't be a part of the tag. The reason why there is a 80 person limit is to make sure no ally exceeds 80 person. With defwhores you go around this, and that is clearly not intended by the pa team. They have all the right in the world to change this, even midround.

Just my 2 cents.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:51   #116
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal2112
Best solution in my opinion is raise the alliance limit so that a number of scanners can enter an alliance, and then hardcode defense missions to be sent only to ingame alliance members. Bit of a shame that PA has come to this but alas.

An alternative could be that alliances can add like 10 scanners to their ingame tag, so these scanners are ingame, but do not get a bonus of -1 on ETA while defending, but can be defended themselves by bigger players with the ETA -1 bonus. (exploitable if not implented correctly btw).
Indeed, if it has come to this, the limit should be changed. Or the alliance should stay within the limit already given!

There are not 3000 planets in this game. Is there really a need for any alliance to be bigger than 80 members? It is not up to me to decide, but I don't see that reason. Just stay within the limit, including defwhores, or just don't use defwhores at all. I know I don't, and I can't see why anyone else would need to defend their longtime friends if the ally of their friend is already full. Sure, I would defend a friend against a incs, so long as the inc is not my own ally, but I would do it if he asked me, and I wouldn't play for the sole reason of doing it.
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:52   #117
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
Indeed, if it has come to this, the limit should be changed. Or the alliance should stay within the limit already given!

There are not 3000 planets in this game. Is there really a need for any alliance to be bigger than 80 members? It is not up to me to decide, but I don't see that reason. Just stay within the limit, including defwhores, or just don't use defwhores at all. I know I don't, and I can't see why anyone else would need to defend their longtime friends if the ally of their friend is already full. Sure, I would defend a friend against a incs, so long as the inc is not my own ally, but I would do it if he asked me, and I wouldn't play for the sole reason of doing it.

OMG Qebab u gimp! Thats what I said earlier and u agree with him.. Right I aint doing your def calls again!

Does noone read what I have to say?
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Unread 23 Nov 2005, 23:55   #118
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeida
really? which scan does give u the info if a planet is in a specific tag ingame? u know i can defend for example ToF without beeing in their tag and noone will ever find out if i am in their tag or not. so pls enlighten me how those established alliances do find that out
It's called news scan
If you still have trouble figuring how it works, you need to stop playing this kind of game. Incluster defence is trickier, but then again, incluster defence is allowed, so
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:04   #119
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Re: New Rule

you cant have scan whores now and ban def planets. thats just silly. since they both have the main point of providing for an alliance out of tag.

so; http://pirate.planetarion.com/showth...66#post2963066
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:05   #120
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBerk
And so now, I have all the scans needed for the alliance, a nice number of amps that i can continue to build on. Let's say i wish to start attacking, I must attack solo? After all if i join an alliance attack I must just be there to soak up defence! I see a defence call that i can cover, noone else is around, the person i have supported with scans for the last 3-4 weeks must be left to die? Should I join some other tag so that they may defend me, I can defend them and help me attack? Isn't this known as ship jumping?
There are many ways to play this game, some attack, they go for roids and score. Some defend, they like the satisfaction of saving a friends roids. Some scan, they help the alliance to grow, support attacks and defence.
Anyway, suffice to say, I disagree with this new ruling, if planets are being closed for being secondary planets used for defence then great, the mh team is catching the multi's. Closing people for helping old friends or supporting an alliance (or two), is imho wrong.
That's all I feel I have to say on the matter.
Is about leveling the playing fields... If pa crew wished for alliances to recive unlimited defence.. the alliance size limit wouldn't be there. Saving a friend is something u wanna do.. but it's not what u signed up for. U started the game as a scanner and not in the tag...
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:18   #121
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by [Unknown]
OMG Qebab u gimp! Thats what I said earlier and u agree with him.. Right I aint doing your def calls again!

Does noone read what I have to say?
I literally didn't see that.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:19   #122
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storebo
Is about leveling the playing fields... If pa crew wished for alliances to recive unlimited defence.. the alliance size limit wouldn't be there. Saving a friend is something u wanna do.. but it's not what u signed up for. U started the game as a scanner and not in the tag...
My understanding was the alliance size limit is there so only 80 people recieve the -1 eta for def, not to say who you can and cannot defend.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:19   #123
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Re: New Rule

By the way, the only time you did my def call so far, was when I had 80k inc and told you to not defend it
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:24   #124
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Re: New Rule

It's not unlimited. No alliance has unlimited numbers of idiots to build pure defense fleets without cheating. The limit is there to stop alliances getting insanely powerful WITH the ETA bonus, surely? If people want to defend their friends, why shouldn't they? What about someone who plays solo who defends a friend every now and then? They are now cheating. This is wrong.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:33   #125
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neferti
It's not unlimited. No alliance has unlimited numbers of idiots to build pure defense fleets without cheating. The limit is there to stop alliances getting insanely powerful WITH the ETA bonus, surely? If people want to defend their friends, why shouldn't they? What about someone who plays solo who defends a friend every now and then? They are now cheating. This is wrong.
Yes Nerferti and THEREFORE it should become a VERY case by case issue, whereby closings are very specific to particular suspicious behaviour.

Although, that does allow for a very subjective approach.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:38   #126
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Re: New Rule

Just so people have my opinions

This rules sucks its a disgrace to the game. But we were left with no choice with the rampant abuse that was happening. We tryed hard to stop it. Me in perticular worked none stop for a week trying to work with what we had to prevent this rule from taking shape. It was not possible the abuse continued unabated even after closing more than 30 planets accross the top alliances(all out of tag) It didnt even make a dent so we were forced into making a rule that may not be nice but is very very nesecery

I know many people will be upset about this and will find it restrictive but belevae me if it stops the abuse that was happening its a very usful tool in our arsenal.

The game will be a better place for all now that we can finaly act ware before our hands were tied.

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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:39   #127
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Re: New Rule

Sometimes Planetarion can be a little too hardcore new players have it bad when as soon as they join they are greeted with threats of exile!!!

How about next time the game just randomly draws people into about 10 separate alliances and share them out equally.

Oh and alliance Eta bonus of -5 would be good

Last edited by zokka; 24 Nov 2005 at 00:44.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:40   #128
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Re: New Rule

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Squishy again.

Edit: I think lokken said not to post about that - I can't remember.

Anyhow, that's explains the situation a lot better than other text about the rule.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:44   #129
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
I must say I am 100% behind this rule.

And to all of you who wish to "contribute and repay my friends" -> THE TAG IS THERE FOR A REASON. IF YOU ARE A DEFWHORE, YOU ARE A PART OF AN ALLIANCE. JOIN THE ALLIANCE TAG.
I find this especially funny coming from a Ministry player, we both know that not all the Ministry are in the same tag.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:47   #130
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumo
I find this especially funny coming from a Ministry player, we both know that not all the Ministry are in the same tag.
I haven't seen a Ministry alliance playing.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:48   #131
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
I haven't seen a Ministry alliance playing.
No, some are in Angels, others tagless, yet all work together. EXPLOITZ ABUSE ETC ETC!
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:50   #132
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumo
No, some are in Angels, others tagless, yet all work together. EXPLOITZ ABUSE ETC ETC!
Looking at your signature reading the alliance name inside ... I don't feel the last bit of pity. It's because of people inside your alliance which exploit around the 80 member limit by having those out-of-alliance-tag defense friends that we now have such a rule.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:51   #133
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumo
No, some are in Angels, others tagless, yet all work together. EXPLOITZ ABUSE ETC ETC!
then they'll be getting closed wont they. and i doubt they'll be the only ones...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
It's because of people inside your alliance which exploit around the 80 member limit by having those out-of-alliance-tag defense friends that we now have such a rule.
Quoted for truth.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:54   #134
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumo
No, some are in Angels, others tagless, yet all work together. EXPLOITZ ABUSE ETC ETC!
Some Dragons players are in <insert alliance here>, some of them could be other alliances, yet all work together. EXPLOITZ ABUSE etc.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:55   #135
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
then they'll be getting closed wont they. and i doubt they'll be the only ones...
I certainly hope so.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:56   #136
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Re: New Rule

Ehm...

Imo this new rule is horsepiss. I joined this round for 1 reason and 1 reason only, which is to play for my alliance. wether that equals to cov.opping hostiles, scanning planets, sending defence etc etc I want to be useful in every possible way. Playing as scanner itself is already abit boring, but there r ppl who do that solely to help their tribe/friends whoever. Restricting that freedom is noway making it more fun for us who decide not to play for ourselves but to help our friends and fight the shared cause in different methods. Also I think as the round goes on those so called support planets will slowly lose their value as the "real" planets grow off range.

Well I suppose in case of hostilities and if no in glx defence around i guess im doomed to roll over and die if sum1 comes after me with structure killers as I rather c my own planet goto waste than my alliance m8 getting deleted for defending lil me.

Those saying scanners etc should join in game tag ehm... There's a limit set by PA admins to 80 members per alliance, and ie my alliance has already reached that limit, so i wonder how am i going to join the tag when it's already full. The old rule kinda nullifies the possibility unless they decide to actually implement a new feature to back up this "GRAND" invention.

Whoever chose to play scanner this round just got wtfpwned by PA crew.
Thx for making it less fun for us, the minority. Sad u forgot we r customers as much as the rest of them.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:57   #137
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
then they'll be getting closed wont they. and i doubt they'll be the only ones...


Quoted for truth.
Except for the fact that ex-pia Ministry players didn't actually break the rules. Be them new or existing before the round began.

Irony of Jumo complaining like that though.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:59   #138
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorinn
Except for the fact that ex-pia Ministry players didn't actually break the rules. Be them new or existing before the round began.

Irony of Jumo complaining like that though.
You seriously mean to tell me the Ministry members inside Angels not once recieved def from the Ministry outside?
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 00:59   #139
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by lizardking
Ehm...
Whoever chose to play scanner this round just got wtfpwned by PA crew.
Thx for making it less fun for us, the minority. Sad u forgot we r customers as much as the rest of them.
Except that scanning is allowed.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 01:02   #140
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal2112
Pretty dumb comment coming from a 1up player since 1up has been using scanners with 1 or 2 major def fleets.
Read what i've said before u call anyone dumb u moron.

Scanners outside tag shouldn't need to defend. They are basically outside the tag because they are low priority on defence since they aren't really playing. Now.. people inside tag can have as much amps and ships and defend as much as they like. Their choice what research and constructions they wanna do. Someone outside the alliance or gal shouldn't defend basically just cause this option has been misused. In a perfect world there would be no rules.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 01:02   #141
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumo
You seriously mean to tell me the Ministry members inside Angels not once recieved def from the Ministry outside?
Not that I'm aware of, and if it had happened on a certain scale then my graph on sandmans wouldn't have me shown getting roided near as much. My co-ords are public, go check if you don't believe me.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 01:07   #142
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorinn
Not that I'm aware of, and if it had happened on a certain scale then my graph on sandmans wouldn't have me shown getting roided near as much. My co-ords are public, go check if you don't believe me.
And I've been roided a bunch too, in fact not once recieving def, yet I'm in eX. What is your point?

edit - My coords are public too
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 01:08   #143
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumo
My understanding was the alliance size limit is there so only 80 people recieve the -1 eta for def, not to say who you can and cannot defend.
Well.. then u should think it over. They reduce the limit cause they wish for alliances to be smaller. It's not to make an A and B division in alliances. Like half of em get -1 the rest get no bonus
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 01:09   #144
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Re: New Rule

Scan-planets are a slightly different matter. There's an effective limit to the usefulness of them, once you have five or six scan-planets active enough you don't really need any more than that. However you can always use more "defence-planets" and their overall effect can render the alliance limit relatively useless.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 01:13   #145
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Re: New Rule

Maybe raise alliance limit now? like +10, and those 10 places only for scanners, and no -1 eta to those who are under "scanner" tag ingame. Or something
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 01:18   #146
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gateway
Maybe raise alliance limit now? like +10, and those 10 places only for scanners, and no -1 eta to those who are under "scanner" tag ingame. Or something
Nah.. That's not fair. Alliances was gonna be 80 this round.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 01:20   #147
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Re: New Rule

HAHA.

Good move. Seriously. Thx alot for making it easy to stay away from future rounds.

Removing the aspect that has been one of the main reasons people won rounds. Removing the importance of establishing contacts and friends. Believe it or not, but most #1 players knew ALOT of people outside their alliance willing to help them.
People willing to help you out even if not in your alliance. People helping you when your alliance is dry.
--

And, as Jerome stated, whats the difference in scanning for your alliance than deffing your alliance?

If u go for scans, you will use most of your res for -scans- and will have less res for def ships.
If u want to help your alliance with mainly sending def, WHATS the difference? You aint allowed to spend res on ships rather than on scans?

-Thx to all my m8s in FWWD, signing up and spending cash to now do something illegal. Sry I got ya to play.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 01:28   #148
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumo
And I've been roided a bunch too, in fact not once recieving def, yet I'm in eX. What is your point?

edit - My coords are public too
You argued that ex-Ministry members within Angels received def from ex-Ministry outside of Angels, I was refuting that point to the best of my knowledge.
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 01:31   #149
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorinn
You argued that ex-Ministry members within Angels received def from ex-Ministry outside of Angels, I was refuting that point to the best of my knowledge.
And I'm arguing that you cannot prove anything from your single case. But let's stop this as we're going nowhere, I'm sure the MHs will fairly investigate all the alliances
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Unread 24 Nov 2005, 01:32   #150
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Re: New Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storebo
Nah.. That's not fair. Alliances was gonna be 80 this round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Round 15 Details
-Alliance limit now changed. It's a base rate of 80 members, and after a week anyone not in the top 5 alliances can accept a new member every (14 - $alliance_rank) ticks. No alliance can exceed 100 members.
Not quite Storebo, you see, the alliances outside of the top 5 get a chance to add more members, this could include the scanners and defenders that weren't considered as important earlier in the round.
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