[football]

[Dace]

Bully's always pick on the little guy

[1-X]

it's funny 'cos it's true

[Deffeh]

Indeed

Can i just say that england were rank rotten today?

You know what i said about Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, and Beckham all trying to play the "big man" and start all the moves by themselves? Add that little runt Joe Cole into there too. England may very well have the best midfield in the world on paper. but they cant work together, they proved that pretty conclusively today

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Deffeh

Indeed

Can i just say that england were rank rotten today?

You know what i said about Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, and Beckham all trying to play the "big man" and start all the moves by themselves? Add that little runt Joe Cole into there too. England may very well have the best midfield in the world on paper. but they cant work together, they proved that pretty conclusively today

i really couldnt disagree more. beckham was on fine form - not the spritely winger he was five or six years ago, but hewas chasing the ball far more than in recent outings, and his crosses were plenty and his passing immaculate.

england looked disjointed because they were playing a team which certainly appeared to consist of four sweepers, four man-markers, and a couple of guys at the halfway line to pick up the long balls. owen was poor, nay diabolical, in converting them, but the team was creating chances, and a lot of chances, where most teams would be locked out.

[JonnyBGood]

Most teams? Most teams in the world (including sanga sanga bura, third division of the bolivian u12 girls league) yes. Most international teams no. Most international teams with pretensions towards the next world cup most certainly not.

[Cannon_Fodder]

beckham put in an average performance and because all his others are shit everyone claims he should be given a f*cking medal or something, i say kick another shoe at his head and knock some sense into him so he stops coming inside trying to be a central midfielder and try to outshine the others while neville is further up the wing than he is. f*cking media hungry tosser, why is he captain, why is he playing? we need someone who will run at the defenders and attempt to get close the the by-line once in a while.

[ceres]

Owen appears too comfortable in his position, no matter how bad he plays he never seems to get dropped. We need to make the England players fight for their positions more. Drop Owen, replace him with Defoe and see what happens.

An additional note, i think it would be good for team morale to see Emile Heskey hung drawn and quartered during the opening ceremony of the new wembley stadium, just to make sure Sven doesnt think of picking him again.
________
California Medical Marijuana

[KoeN]

british football is the most overrated thing in the world, tbh.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Most teams? Most teams in the world (including sanga sanga bura, third division of the bolivian u12 girls league) yes. Most international teams no. Most international teams with pretensions towards the next world cup most certainly not.

were we watching different games? in the match i saw azerbaijan kept half the team in the box and the other half were man-marking. Creating chances when so drastically outnumbered is 'difficult', regardless of the quality of the opponent, and the only way to have lots of shots on goal is pretty much to shoot from the halfway line. it wasn't a vintage england performance to be sure, but i felt the team did pretty well to create a great deal of genuine chances.


and koen, you don't get to say 'to be honest' at the end of a point that is contentious and, insofar as one can draw objective conlusions from something as subjective as how 'good' a league is, completely and utterly wrong.

[cheekybru]

If we win all our games 2-0 twill be fine with me

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Most teams? Most teams in the world (including sanga sanga bura, third division of the bolivian u12 girls league) yes. Most international teams no. Most international teams with pretensions towards the next world cup most certainly not.

France drew 1-1 with Bosnia last year. So did Spain. Spain also managed to thump Northern Ireland 0-0 in the Euro 2004 qualifiers. The Dutch drew with Macedonia recently, and only managed to beat them by the odd goal two years ago. Portugal drew 2-2 with Liechtenstein at the end of last year, and managed to beat Kazakhstan (the 3rd worst team in europe) by only a single goal. Brazil drew with the mighty Peru in world cup qualifiers. Argentina have done a bit better, beating peru three times recently, although only once by more than a single goal. Mexico put an entire 1 goal past St. Vincent and the Grenadines, who are so tiny I've never even heard of them. They also lost to those masters of the sport Peru. Italy DID manage to beat Macedonia by 1 goal, but then they also lost to Slovenia recently, and had 3 put past them by Belarus in Italy and in a world cup qualifying match.

The Czech Republic had a pretty good record, they seem to be winning lots of games 2-0. Like the England team you're talking about.

So that's your world cup final bet is it?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by KoeN

british football is the most overrated thing in the world, tbh.

Nobody rates british football. People rate English football.

[roadrunner_0]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

France drew 1-1 with Bosnia last year. So did Spain. Spain also managed to thump Northern Ireland 0-0 in the Euro 2004 qualifiers. The Dutch drew with Macedonia recently, and only managed to beat them by the odd goal two years ago. Portugal drew 2-2 with Liechtenstein at the end of last year, and managed to beat Kazakhstan (the 3rd worst team in europe) by only a single goal. Brazil drew with the mighty Peru in world cup qualifiers. Argentina have done a bit better, beating peru three times recently, although only once by more than a single goal. Mexico put an entire 1 goal past St. Vincent and the Grenadines, who are so tiny I've never even heard of them. They also lost to those masters of the sport Peru. Italy DID manage to beat Macedonia by 1 goal, but then they also lost to Slovenia recently, and had 3 put past them by Belarus in Italy and in a world cup qualifying match.

The Czech Republic had a pretty good record, they seem to be winning lots of games 2-0. Like the England team you're talking about.

So that's your world cup final bet is it?

don't forget the mighty israel holding france 1-1 last night

[KoeN]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Nobody rates british football. People rate English football.

overrated, i said!

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

don't forget the mighty israel holding france 1-1 last night

Unlike most of the teams I mentioned, Israel have a place in the top 100. (52nd, as it happens)

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by KoeN

overrated, i said!

What the hell are you on about, you bizarre little man.

[Ste]

Jakiri said everything I wanted to.

All that will be remembered from tonight is the result. 2-0.
It's not a thrashing but it's a win.

[Deffeh]

You're all getting confident after playing two teams that were so unbelievably dire it made my head hurt.

Today was a training day. England, to give them their due, didnt play at full tempo. On Owen :

Originally Posted by Deffeh

Rooneys header was good, but if it had bounced into the net it would have been out of the blue. I didnt forget about owen being through on goal. I just dont think thats a scoring chance because it was more than 2 yards out and michael owen had the ball. Zing.

Originally Posted by Deffeh

I know it was a chance, i was being "comically harsh". But can you honestly tell me, that after his form, performances over the last 2 years or so, when you saw Michael Owen one-on-one you thought "goal"? Rooney, Lampard, Cole, Gerrard, you wouldnt have had a doubt. Owen? Not as sure.

Sup JC At least with him getting a suspension (Two ****ing stupid but well deserved yellow cards today for the real madrid boys) providing theres no injuries, we get to see either Heskey or Defoe in and see what a full strength england line up is really like.

Honestly, i just have to laugh when i see Wayne Rooney dropping back into his own penalty area, pretty much tackling Ferdinand or Terry and then looking up for that "long, inspirational ball" - seriously, not only is that not his skill, ITS NOT HIS JOB. It leaves England playing with one striker. I say striker, i mean Michael Owen. Beckham does it as well. He comes inside with or without the ball just to be "where its at", and quite often you have 3 or 4 players all standing around the ball in center midfield, nobody moving, making runs, going wide or anything, which make your options less than limited. Joe cole did it today as well. How impressed i was with his skillful turns, right into a defender, taking an extra greedy touch, brilliantly ignoring team mates and going into dead ends - but to be fair everyone can have a bad game, its just the idiocy of 5 people trying to play center midfield which really gets me. Thats gerrard's job to pick the ball up in midfield and distribute it - lampard's to a lesser extent because he needs to get further forward. THe amount of attacks you had today that broke down because of lack of men in the box - say what you want about how many azerbaijani defenders there were there, its not as if you didnt expect that (and ive seen teams defend in more numbers than that, dont kid yourselves).

Everyone can have bad results, this wasnt a great result either. But if england play a good team, playing like this, your going to come unstuck and i wont be suprised.

[lokken]

Dave was OK and effectively did all the ground work for the first goal.

He wasn't bad, but is no where near as lethal as he once was, because he doesn't run to the byline/penalty area to cross it. This is all because he thought he could play central midfield, which fooked up his game bigtime. However, credit to Dave for starting to sort himself out.

Don't really give a shit about how many goals we scored, they were shit and didn't really get a proper sniff. Funnily enough this Joe Cole/Beckham out wide thing might work (yes, I'm giving Sven some credit here) - we need wide players who will drift infield (and using our fullbacks to cover as outlets) and get their foot in as there have been numerous times in international football when England have been outnumbered in the middle of the park.

Joe Cole still needs work on doing the out wide stuff a bit better but at least he's sticking to his left wing task better than anyone has previously attempted.

[Phang]

the person who impressed me least was ashley cole. as a fullback he failed to do his job whenever he was called upon, and going forward he was ineffectual and generally looked lost. i hope that won't happen against better opposition

[arbondigo]

Originally Posted by Deffeh

Everyone can have bad results, this wasnt a great result either. But if england play a good team, playing like this, your going to come unstuck and i wont be suprised.

But when we play a good team we don't come up against 10 men defending inside their own penalty box. You don't have as much ball against a France, Spain Italy etc, and is probably an easier game for the players, in that they don't have to force play and don't have to break down a 10 man defence. The better teams play a more "orthodox" style, one which the players are used to playing against week in week out for their clubs.

[Ste]

Originally Posted by Deffeh

You're all getting confident after playing two teams that were so unbelievably dire it made my head hurt.

Ahem. Who's confident? Please reread the thread and find one person who's said we're confident.
We're just saying that we did the job that was required of us.

[Apothos]

Originally Posted by 1-X

it's funny 'cos it's true

And well said, tbh.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Apothos

And well said, tbh.

Not really. It's not Michael Owen's fault if he's not doing what people are expecting. Furthermore, lambasting someone for something they didn't, nay, actively avoided saying is a bit off.

[1-X]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

It's not Michael Owen's fault if he's not doing what people are expecting.

How is Owen missing chances not Owen's fault? When did it become unreasonable to expect a striker to score a goal? Damn the unrealistic supporters, they should be happy that Owen got some exercise.

(Fair point about being misquoted though)

[MrL_JaKiri]

I was referring more to Carlos Alberto's "who is Michael Owen?" line. Could have worded it better, I admit.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

France drew 1-1 with Bosnia last year. So did Spain. Spain also managed to thump Northern Ireland 0-0 in the Euro 2004 qualifiers. The Dutch drew with Macedonia recently, and only managed to beat them by the odd goal two years ago. Portugal drew 2-2 with Liechtenstein at the end of last year, and managed to beat Kazakhstan (the 3rd worst team in europe) by only a single goal. Brazil drew with the mighty Peru in world cup qualifiers. Argentina have done a bit better, beating peru three times recently, although only once by more than a single goal. Mexico put an entire 1 goal past St. Vincent and the Grenadines, who are so tiny I've never even heard of them. They also lost to those masters of the sport Peru. Italy DID manage to beat Macedonia by 1 goal, but then they also lost to Slovenia recently, and had 3 put past them by Belarus in Italy and in a world cup qualifying match.

The Czech Republic had a pretty good record, they seem to be winning lots of games 2-0. Like the England team you're talking about.

So that's your world cup final bet is it?

Bar liechenstein and kazhakstan every single one of those teams is better than azerbaijan. Most of them are even in the top 100 so I don't know what you're talking about there. I don't think portugal are going to win the world cup either to be honest. Most of their best players are either past it or racing there as fast as their geriatric legs can carry them. I don't see anyone with a functioning braincell saying mexico are up there either. I also started checking where those results occurred and in what competition but after finding out three of the first four were away games for the bigger team I lost the will to live and now I'm going off to hack my own legs off and bleed to death.

[Deffeh]

well, last i checked the pinnacle of his achievements was the uefa cup with liverpool? Hardly a stand out career, no?

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

don't forget the mighty israel holding france 1-1 last night

Israel have also drawn with switzerland and ireland. Azerbaijan were beaten 8-0 by Poland. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE CONCEPT OF FORM?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I don't see anyone with a functioning braincell saying mexico are up there either.

That's the FIFA top 10 you ninny.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Deffeh

well, last i checked the pinnacle of his achievements was the uefa cup with liverpool? Hardly a stand out career, no?

Better than most footballers. It reminded me of Souness's "I've won more trophies so I'm RIGHT" arguments.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

That's the FIFA top 10 you ninny.

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

functioning braincell

[MrL_JaKiri]

We're a great team

[JonnyBGood]

And which position do you play in then?

[Dead_Meat]

Originally Posted by lokken

Dave was OK and effectively did all the ground work for the first goal.

...However, credit to Dave for starting to sort himself out...

Dave? DAVE?

What kind of uber-faggot are you?

[lokken]

I refer to him as 'Dave' for personal amusement.

[Dead_Meat]

The less I know about your 'personal amusement' where David Beckham is involved, the happier I'll be.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

And which position do you play in then?

I like to sit on my arse all day and do nothing, so right side of midfield olololololo

[Apothos]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Furthermore, lambasting someone for something they didn't, nay, actively avoided saying is a bit off.

I wasn't referring to that. I couldn't give two shits if he said it or not. I was referring to the"Who is Michael Owen? What has he won? The World Cup? OK, he plays for Real Madrid but he is on the bench every game" part, which happens to be similar to my opinion of him.

[LHC]

To be fair he probably has the best minutes-to-goals ratio in La Liga, but he's still not given a chance.