Proposed Cath plan for Beetle rush

[Banned]

Here's a quick Cath tickplan aimed at attacking at pt72 with Beetle/Mosquitos. Number is parentheses are how long it takes to finish something (so core1 takes 18 ticks).


eng: res/min/con
pt0: core1(18), reslab(11)
pt11: c-mine(11)
pt18: hct1(6)
pt22: c-mine2(11)
pt24: hct2(8)
pt32: ship1(14)
pt33: c-mine3(11)
pt44: lightfac(11)
pt46: hct3(13)
pt55: c-mine4(11)
pt59: tt1(8)
pt63: eng - res/min/prod | order ships(9)
ALT: pt65 eng - res/prod/min | order ships(7)
pt66: reslab2(12)
pt67: tt2(18)
pt72: launch!

Some notes: Stop initiating so you have as close to 300k Crystal as you can manage. You need ~150 Mosquitos to cap 50 roids, which should be your goal for your first raid. The core mine at the beginning should help you hit 200 roids before you need to stop iniating. Try to find galmates you can swap C for to init extra C roids, your slow construction means you'll have trouble getting a good ratio. Ideally you want your 200 roids by pt51, which should give you a nice sum for spending.

I've let one research (tt2) start with a less than optimal (16%) research lab ratio, I figured the extra 12k crystal are worth it. Make sure you init C roids before you land.

Remember that launching at pt72 isn't necessarily optimal, but this plan shouldn't be too hard to adapt for further initiating.

Edit: Fixed typoed pt for ordering ships, ta RB

[~RevictioN~]

pt 65 + 9 ticks = tick 74 launch

[arbondigo]

Originally Posted by ~RevictioN~

pt 65 + 9 ticks = tick 74 launch

It's 63+9, not 65.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by arbondigo

It's 63+9, not 65.

It was when he first posted it (been edited since)

[arbondigo]

My bad heh, didn't see the edit until afterwards.

[~RevictioN~]

What tick you plan on getting CR/BS Banned and any ghod's of PA going cath what would you recommend getting CR/BS by assuming ok gal good buddy pack good alliance

[Banned]

Originally Posted by ~RevictioN~

What tick you plan on getting CR/BS Banned

I have no idea. I'd take three things into consideration:

1. The only anti-FR available to Cath is CR/BS.
2. The general amount of anti-CO available to targets.
3. The success CR-rushing has had in the last few rounds.

[~RevictioN~]

Well banned what im really asking is what is your opinion on how late to get CR/BS is TO LATE ?
Based soley on the no anti frig problem

[Banned]

Originally Posted by ~RevictioN~

Well banned what im really asking is what is your opinion on how late to get CR/BS is TO LATE ?
Based soley on the no anti frig problem

Heh. If you haven't started Frigate Class Hulls and you're being attacked regularly by FR you may be a little late

Honestly, though, I'm not enirely sure. Ask your Zik/Xan friends when they plan on going heavily into FR.

[Ultimate Newbie]

I'd say that if a cath hasnt got CR byt tick 200, then they are prolly late. This allows for some (though not full) research into ETA and other areas as well.

Constructions (like factories) too .

[Ultimate Newbie]

mind you, i'm going Xan so my word isnt gospel . Though you'd want CR by the time the elite terrans (ie those who rushed) are on the verge of building battleships.

When terran BA are around, then you are prolly too late .

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

When terran BA are around, then you are prolly too late .

I don't see how this is relevant.

[~RevictioN~]

mehbe he means it as in if the terrans got BS you should have CR but I dont know if not since BLACKWIDOW shoots terran BS.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by Banned

I don't see how this is relevant.

Well, i thought that most Terrans would have rushed to their Battleships - thus representing the fastest possible completion of the ship tech path (not incl research bonus etc).

If they have started to build battleships, then this represents the end of the beginning of the round (imo) - and time for players to whip out their big guns (whether EMP or conventional :P) and start attacking with their strongest possible combination.

I have a feeling that i have forgotten the third reason, but that's what i was thinking at the time. Its true, tehy arent directly related ship stat wise, but the reference was for time.

i still reckon CR by tick 200 is on the late side of just about right...

[Gary]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

i still reckon CR by tick 200 is on the late side of just about right...

Probably playing as Cathaar, I have an interest here. It depends on what eta one has at tick 200. If all the jumpgate techs have not been completed, and your about to reach your resource handling limit (esp of your roiding well), then CR may have to wait for a while after that. In the mean time, Cathaars could always go roiding with Zikonians to make it easier to get through, and at the same time, helping Zikonian friends to steal the EMPed ships.

I might be wrong about this, but thats the way Im very tempted to play, initially rushing with Beetles/Mosqs, and delay CR for as long as possible: either until all jumpie techs have been done, or if one is forced to if there is too much anti CO about.

An added advantage of a lack of Cathaars not CR rushing, is ofc to leave Scarabs aside as anti CR defence and focus on Black Widows to keep away BS rushing Terrans. For me, its tempting not to build many Scarabs once the Frigate tech has been done, up until Cathaars catch up on CR, and instead to avoid Terran incomming, by focusing on Vipers and Black Widows.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by GJN

An added advantage of a lack of Cathaars not CR rushing, is ofc to leave Scarabs aside as anti CR defence and focus on Black Widows to keep away BS rushing Terrans. For me, its tempting not to build many Scarabs once the Frigate tech has been done, up until Cathaars catch up on CR, and instead to avoid Terran incomming, by focusing on Vipers and Black Widows.

Hoping that people will play cathaar just like you, so you needed bother with scarabs as early is a pretty dangerous philosophy . Having said that, you do make valid points, and i'm sure that (properly executed) this strategy will succeed.

However, the point of rushing for a class is to get the longest amount of time with the smallest amount of defence of that class to maximise the amount of roids you can get early - and perhaps more importantly - cheaply. By only building CR when others are already using to success (news of which will spread quickly), you miss out (at least to a larger extent) on the bountiful times of using CR - when defence against it is minimal.

Its for this reason that many Cathaar players will just automatically assume to rush for CR, which kind of makes it more important that your get CR before them too . its a strange world .

[Gerbie]

I think as a Cathaar you have to realize that defending yourself will be very hard as you cannot kill many classes. That said it seems wise to make choices on what to defend against and what not. A cathaar has to make sure he has good allies to defend his weak points.

That said I can see myself doing a beetle rush and then go for eta advantage asap. No other race can keep up on research and therefore for a while defence from out of the galaxy will be impossible.
This tactic will become less effective when more people get to their lowest eta. And targets will get more scarce when more people will get their bigger anti-co ships (Cath: Scorpion (Cr), Xan: Lancer (De), Zik Buccaneer (Fr)).
When you run out of easy targets either go for Cr as well or try to find a Xan (or Zik with a nice Xan fleet) to team up with.

This tactic should give you lots of roids. But would make you an easy target (as you can only defend yourself against fi and co). Make sure you stay friendly with your galmates. You will need them.

[Squishy]

Just outta intrest how many poeple will be beetle rushing ?

[Ultimate Newbie]

I wont be, being a xan and all

[reconverse]

For the first couple of ticks Im following Banned his Tick-Plan, but now (tick 17) I currently miss out on
1500 Metal, 1750 Crystal and 1500 Eonium per tick.
Next tick I will start HCT1 wich takes 6 ticks, so i miss out on some more resources...

I initiated roids almost every tick now, but when doing this I get 'stuck' with the 'miss-out-on-resource-thing'
You allready found that out Banned? Or is it part of the plan looking at:

The core mine at the beginning should help you hit 200 roids before you need to stop iniating

yeah im following this plan and have noticed im falling behind (after being ranked 50 something, im now 1100) but it doesnt matter, when HCT1 is done im gonna shoot up again (maybe not back too much, but enough).

Its a good plan i think, hence why im still pursuing it.

[reconverse]

Im rank 500-something now... with 70-something roids

But don't forget Caths have slow construction time, and that is also a score-factor...

[Rinoa]

caths shouldt really care about rank atm, by time protection ends they will have upper hand slighly if u done everything rite

[Shev]

Heh, I'm actually following that plan almost exactly - and thats without reading this thread until just now. I intend to beetle rush, then mass them while I bring the eta down for CR. Seems like the safest bet to me, especially given the weakness Cath and Zik have to the early CO attacks.

[pig]

Originally Posted by reconverse

For the first couple of ticks Im following Banned his Tick-Plan, but now (tick 17) I currently miss out on
1500 Metal, 1750 Crystal and 1500 Eonium per tick.
Next tick I will start HCT1 wich takes 6 ticks, so i miss out on some more resources...

I initiated roids almost every tick now, but when doing this I get 'stuck' with the 'miss-out-on-resource-thing'
You allready found that out Banned? Or is it part of the plan looking at:

for future reference the core mining gives u more res, than going for HCT 2, and thus u get roids quicker before protection ends and so longer to save up for beetles etc.

[Goatsemaster]

Originally Posted by pig

for future reference the core mining gives u more res, than going for HCT 2, and thus u get roids quicker before protection ends and so longer to save up for beetles etc.

For future reference, min/con/res, HCT1, Core, HCT2 is the right way to go (for cath).