[Discuss] Fleet Scan and Minister of War

[Nahoj]

Ok this round I am minister of war in my gal and have had a thought. Perhaps the minister of war could be given the special privledge of being to F scan any fleet incoming on the gal. Other ministers get other special privledges and I just thought it might be a good thing. I've heard about lots of people wanting a specific Gal Defence fleet and have heard all of the reasons why that will not work. But if we allowed the MoW to F scan incoming fleets he could better arrange defense for offline gal mates. I am certain someone will say that this would be unfair, but everything is unfair to some one . Any well thought out reply is appreciate any short 'no' is not.

-Nahoj

[Banned]

This idea is interesting, but would probably reduce the amount of tactics possible.

In my opinion the MoW should be able to launch fleet scans if and only if both the MoW and the planet have fleet scan technology. That way you don't get people without fleet scan getting fleet scan information.

The number of amps used would have to be the planet with incoming (as opposed to the MoW's), otherwise we get amp-bank.

[mist]

if you're going to do this, you really need to impliment something wherby it takes time to change ministers, so that the mow isn't changed to whoever happens to be online.

-mist

[Doorsdown]

Originally Posted by mist

if you're going to do this, you really need to impliment something wherby it takes time to change ministers, so that the mow isn't changed to whoever happens to be online.

-mist

either 1/2 the gal or the GC would have to be on to do that and the GC can't change it to himself but yes like a once eveyr 48 to 72 hours thing would be needed to prevent abuse

[Eol]

It's an interesting idea. Finally, since r4, the MoW could get an actual function hehe.

I agree with Banned and mist on their points about whose amp count counts, tech requirements and a time delay for switching ministers, all of which are measures needed to prevent abuse.

[LordBrem]

How about simply allowing the MoW access to any fleet scans (or perhaps even unit scans of attackers) done by people who actually have inc? You could give this to the GC too perhaps.

[Banned]

I agree with mist, a 12-48 hour delay on changing ministers would be good.

Originally Posted by LordBrem

How about simply allowing the MoW access to any fleet scans (or perhaps even unit scans of attackers) done by people who actually have inc?

But that sort of defeats the point of the suggestion. We already have the feature you suggest, it's called IRC, galaxy forum, PAmail, MSN, ICQ, email, SMS, etc.

You could give this to the GC too perhaps.

Nah, the MoW needs some actual functionality. Giving the GC the power to do all the Minister functions would be silly, imo.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Banned

I agree with mist, a 12-48 hour delay on changing ministers would be good.
But that sort of defeats the point of the suggestion. We already have the feature you suggest, it's called IRC, galaxy forum, PAmail, MSN, ICQ, email, SMS, etc.


Nah, the MoW needs some actual functionality. Giving the GC the power to do all the Minister functions would be silly, imo.

it is how the in game allaince attack system works though - any scans done by any memebrs on an attack set up get added to it i believe.

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Banned

This idea is interesting, but would probably reduce the amount of tactics possible.

In my opinion the MoW should be able to launch fleet scans if and only if both the MoW and the planet have fleet scan technology. That way you don't get people without fleet scan getting fleet scan information.

The number of amps used would have to be the planet with incoming (as opposed to the MoW's), otherwise we get amp-bank.

I disagree in a way, it would be interesting to basically have each gal having a scan planet, it would remove the advantage that a large alliance has in terms of resources and would help balence the game out if all gals had a scanner.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Kal

I disagree in a way, it would be interesting to basically have each gal having a scan planet, it would remove the advantage that a large alliance has in terms of resources and would help balence the game out if all gals had a scanner.

Except no big alliances have advantages when it comes to fleetscans. Quite the contrary, big planets are usually busy getting HCT researches to be able to mine their roids. What you suggest would be a work-around for such planets.

[MAdnRisKy]

I really like the idea. BUT I agree with the componants suggested with regards amps it should be the targets amps used in the calc not the MoWs HOWEVER i don't think the target should have to be online.

Also funds for scanning should come directly from the gal fund.... not from either the target or the MoW (which solves that little problem, and makes the MoD more useful indirectly by making him attempt to regulate the resources held in it to an equal proportion, managing what can be traded nd what can't to maintain a balance).

Also Research must be conducted by both parties, but for sake of clarity, i think this should include all scans. IE the MoW could do a JGP as well as a fleet scan again under the same limitations, and again using the planet who has the fleet launched for amp numbers rather than the MoW. Why would you want this second feature..? MoW in shifts with sms to bring online incase target has defence ( LIE IN!!!! \o/)... more open about who is what alliance if you have inteligent MoWs. A two phase notion leading to more transparancy about who is who, hence quicker lines of warfare drawn and also an opportunity for recruitment for new switched on players (I'm an MoW I have access to intel)

However ALL spending of gal funds is clearly visable by MoD so a level of accountablity is being impossed (JGP cost different to fleet scans etc).

By having it like this you also allow the MoW to prepare unit scans and other such scans so he can ACTUALLY CO-ORDINATE GAL ATTACKS, omg a minister that does exactly what he says on the tin!


(although what you use as the amp gauge for this i'm unsure.... perhaps in this case the MoWs, but he could fund the scans from the gal fund and if he starts dipping in for personal use then the MoD can spot this and alert the gal...)

Actually I quite like the idea

[Banned]

I agree with everything MAd says. Perhaps the MoC could build a seperate bank of galactic amps for non-JGP/Fleet scans.

[mist]

not sure about the moc building a seperate bank of amps, which are used by the mod - seems maybe a little involved

other than that, what they said

-mist

[Nahoj]

I see good discussion I agree with all of the things mentioned about abuse. 48 ticks to change ministers sounds fair, except in the case of an exile if you exile a minister perhaps then you should be allowed to replace him. MoC amp bank I think is an interesting idea. Kind of gives everyone a job MoD gets res for amps and scans MoC builds amps for scans MoW actually doea the scans. Gives everyone some sort of job anyway. I dont know what other ministers of war do but I find myself not arranging attacks as often as galaxy defense. Which is of course why I brought up this whole topic to begin with. Thanks all for the great feedback I look forward to reading more,.

-Nahoj

[Hellcat]

Seems a very fair idea to myself.

Giving the MoW some power sounds good.
Using resources from Gal Fund under regulation by MoD - good.
Access to all scans that both planet+MoW have researched sounds good as long as its controlled through the politics page so personal and Gal scans are apart.

Maybe have the Gal scans cost a little more than individual planets scans after all they are a premium service.

Gives the idea of if any other powers could be given to the MoC. Maybe not.

[Eol]

I think MAd's refinements to the idea are worth considering. Especially since this is probably most useful for the "nightmare" galaxies. Though ofc, next rounds galaxy setup may lessen that problem.

[MAdnRisKy]

no scans HAVE to cost the same, or the feature isn't used. That is really vital, this way it promotes the MoW to do something... and obviously if he's doing all the work, it makes sense for him to get the perks which come from doing lots of scans, (good target picks for instance or when he's online he knows he'll always be able to get a scan for his incs).. By making it cost more, people won't use the feature.... so it becomes like the old fashioned jumpgate. Nice in principle, shite in actualisation

[mist]

i disagree, making it cost slightly more would still see it get used

your justification for getting the best targets worries me, but that's a side issue

-mist

[MAdnRisKy]

clearly you rotate the position.... and yes it's a side issue

[Hellcat]

If your MoW is not willing to do fleet scans because they cost a bit more than the target planet doing it - even though its the Gal Fund that pays - then its time to get a new MoW.

They should cost more to help prevent abuse plus this would be a genuine advanced feature. The incentive for the MoW is to help protect his Gal thus grow. Just like the GC, MoC and MoD dont really get anything for doing their work. The cost of a Gal fleet scan could be based on the score of the Gal - a big gal should be active enough to fleet scan themselves, where as small gals would benefit most from being able to defend their less active players.

One more suggestion could be that instead of basing the number of amps used on either the MoW or under attack planet - it could be the average number of amps in the Gal - making it a Gal effort. This would prevent one planet becoming a amp farm.

if in a 10 planet gal - 9 planets had 8 amps and 1 had 20 - the average would be 9.2 - round up or down to your own preference!

Any constructive suggestions?

[MAdnRisKy]

not a bad suggestion about the amps. About the cost though.

WHY make it cost more? all that means it it becomes cheaper to do your own scans, as you have to pay for them from the gal fund, if a scan costs even 10% more that's an extra 10% of resources that could have been spent on ships... I mean how do you think the money got into the fund in the first place. It's not that i think the MoW is not prepared to pay a premium, it's that I don't see WHY he should have to, it makes no sense AND it would make more sense thus for the MoD to DONATE to the MoW and him by them personally, which removes most of the point about letting the MoW do scans for the gal (except the fleet scans and jgp of course) as you could keep it as it is.

[Hellcat]

My arguement for making it cost more is to promote being more active.

Doing it yourself is cheaper - but if your not online your MoW can do the scan for the Gal to co-ordinate a defence.

This is a premium service. Its something thats VERY useful. Therefore it should cost more, paid by contributions from all the Gal.

Could do with a PA Team member back in here. See if were still on track with an achieveable system.

[Banned]

MoW 'special' scans would obviously be paid directly from the galfund. Otherwise, what's the point of requiring that the MoW be under half the average gal value?

Also, averaging galaxy number of amps would be a bad idea. It should be fairly obviously as to why.

They should cost more for an obvious reason as well: You're getting access to fleetscans on a planet you wouldn't normally get access to.

[noah02]

whoever wants the scan is gonna have to pay for it no matter what
I aint paying for someone elses scans.
In gal fund is still funded by the ppl in the gal and not everyone well no one is gonna fund someone elses scans when they could use the moneh for something more useful.
I like the idea of all this just would be hard to get a useful way of doing it.

[Hellcat]

Originally Posted by Banned

MoW 'special' scans would obviously be paid directly from the galfund. Otherwise, what's the point of requiring that the MoW be under half the average gal value?

That confused me for a while - I assume you mean that the funds should go direct from the gal fund as opposed to having the MoD have to donate to cover the MoW's expences

Originally Posted by Banned

Also, averaging galaxy number of amps would be a bad idea. It should be fairly obviously as to why.

Whats wrong with averaging the number of amps? If everyone is expected to donate resources to fund the scans - they should also be expected to keep their number of amps up to avoid damaging the gal amp number. But as its an average a low amp count from one planet shouldn't adversly effect the number of amps available for Gal scans.

Vice-versa for someone trying to form an amp-bank. Your huge number of amps will only increase the Gal amps number a bit.

Originally Posted by Banned

They should cost more for an obvious reason as well: You're getting access to fleetscans on a planet you wouldn't normally get access to

What he said

[Hellcat]

Originally Posted by noah02

whoever wants the scan is gonna have to pay for it no matter what
I aint paying for someone elses scans.
In gal fund is still funded by the ppl in the gal and not everyone well no one is gonna fund someone elses scans when they could use the moneh for something more useful.
I like the idea of all this just would be hard to get a useful way of doing it.

its not the same as people using your resources to scan for their own gain. Its for you or others to scan incoming in order to help defend. As defending your Gal keeps it big - less chance of opertunistic roiding parties!

As my gal's MoD i'm always in politics. donating to the smaller planets or ones that get hit - leveling the resources when the terrans get a bit excited etc. Using a few thousand resourses to get a fleet planned to cover incoming, will cost a lot less than having to donate to get someones fleet built back up.

[Mek]

Originally Posted by noah02

whoever wants the scan is gonna have to pay for it no matter what
I aint paying for someone elses scans.
In gal fund is still funded by the ppl in the gal and not everyone well no one is gonna fund someone elses scans when they could use the moneh for something more useful.
I like the idea of all this just would be hard to get a useful way of doing it.

if theres a chance that sum1 else can do fleet scans while iam asleep..pass to the DC in my alliance, get me effective ships based on a battle calc, then im gonna donate...

[mist]

the problem with averaging amps is that the inactive 0 roid planets will then drag the amps down, further punishing the gal that ends up with them, which would be pants. averaging the top 50% or something would avoid this, but i still don't like it particularly much

-mist

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Hellcat

Whats wrong with averaging the number of amps? If everyone is expected to donate resources to fund the scans - they should also be expected to keep their number of amps up to avoid damaging the gal amp number. But as its an average a low amp count from one planet shouldn't adversly effect the number of amps available for Gal scans.

The feature will change the balance of amplifiers and other structures immensely. This is a bad thing, because it means that a small change has a big impact with consequences that are difficult to predict.

For example, you could get amp banks. Active galaxies with planets that don't build any amplifiers, but instead rely on the MoW and their galaxy average count wouldn't exactly be requiring people to keep high amp counts.

Edit: Also, what mist said.

[MAdnRisKy]

ok how's this for a compromise.

in the case of fleet scans and jgp it's the target's amps used, not the MoW or the gal average.

In the case of normal planet sector unit etc, it's the gal average (and for those worried about this meaning big players getting to rely on others to build amps..... well this isn't a new phenomemon)

[mist]

how about this for a compromise.

in the case of all scans, it's the amps of the person who the scan's being done for that're used... it seems to do the job and also seems to have less problems.

-mist

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Mek

if theres a chance that sum1 else can do fleet scans while iam asleep..pass to the DC in my alliance, get me effective ships based on a battle calc, then im gonna donate...

Just to make the game harder for attacking than it already is
I think by the time planetarion has reached its peak only players in 1up and such will be able to attack in wave upon wave because of ideas that everyone's putting in just makes the game harder and harder to do.
If you see 400 Ziks incoming on a planet eta 9 would you really not know at all what it was?
Takes 2 seconds and not a lot of resource to scan the defender and see what ships hes got to work out what is the best fleet for the zik to send to actually get roids.
I find that a fun part of the game. Soon it will just be automatic PA.

SO PLEASE STOP MAKING THE GAME MASSIVLY EASIER TO DEFEND.
My 2 pence.

[MAdnRisKy]

Noah, it would make nightmare gals, full of new players, who are keen as mustard but totally clueless, learn stuff. They'd learn stats, instead of asking the few (or 1) person in thew gal who knows how to work stuff out, what the answer is, they'd start to work it out themselves.... it would breed inter gal co-opperation, maybe not for the bigger gals, where alliances feature, but for the smaller gals, and making life easier for those guys, keeps them in the game, at least it does make them feel like they can do SOMETHING and they have SOME hope that if they go offline, something will be done.

Mist, in the case of a unit scan say, how do you plan to define who the scan is used for, in order to work out the correct amp number used?

[Banned]

noah has two valid points.

Yes, it would make defending easier. And yes, it would take a bit of the 'what did he send?' fun out of defending. However, it's possible to adjust other factors to make defending more difficult (this round's fleet stats are a bit more defensive than I'd like). There are also other failsafes in place to prevent the partial information game from dying.

I'm not entirely sure it would be a good feature, but I think it sounds cool enough to give my support.

[OrionIII]

OK, Ive been an Avid player for 5 full rounds, and ive played parts of 3 other rounds. Ive been with PA since round 3. I have seen many opportunities where an idea like this would help. Back in round 3/4 everyone wanted alliance information in PA. and we got it eventually and it has made PA better. Now the People have seen feature that they would like added. so you have to look as it from a game mechanics poitn of view.

1. The MoC is incharge and basically 'linked' to all the galaxies planets communications systems and can mass email them. They have a special Function.

2. The MoD also has a function, the gal fund.

3. The MoW has no real in game/game mechanic function.

So i agree that this shoudl be a power granted to the MoW. But as with all game mechanics, the powers must be balanced with a draw back or two.

1. Allow the MoW to use any scan he has on any incoming our outgoing fleets of his galaxy. Fleets are for war, and that is his job. PERIOD. This represents his being linked to military systems on all planets.
2. If the Planet who the scan is for DOES NOT have the technology to make the scan, the cost of the scan is TRIPLED. The scan is then posted to the galaxy status screen the way scans by alliance members are posted to the alliance attack screen.
3. Do not restrict the changing of MoW. Instead restrict the MoW from using his powers for 18 hours. Call this a "Familiarization" period. Having a new job takes some learning, and getting a job back takes some updating of the stuff that you have to do. Im in the military, we call this idea a "Turnover". That will eliminate the GC frpm changing the MoW just to have him make a scan. After All the MoD does not change instantly, there is a similar restriction on the MoD. I discovered this last round when trying to change MoD's so an online person could emergency donate to a low ranked guy with lots of incoming.
4. The funds for the scans will come from the Gal Fund. and that will be a reason for everyone to donate. not enough donations means no scans for you. This would be something that was handled in galaxy, but thats my assumption on how most galaxies would handle it.

I have a small addition to the list of items that a MoW should be able to do, since ive got this going, ill post it here. Allow each planet to designate ONE and only ONE, of his fleets to be used for galaxy defense.

Drawbacks and restrictions to this would be:

1. The ships would be required to stay in the fleet they were donated in. no moving the ships between temporarily donated fleets.

2. When you donate a fleet, it is for a mandatory time length, say 72 hours minimum, then you can leave them for longer or request them back AS LONG AS THEY ARENT INVOLVED IN ANY DEFENSE!

3. THEY CAN ONLY BE USED FOR DEFENSE!

4. This item will be up for debate but... allow a planet to donate his ships to the galaxy defense if he is going into vacation mode, i.e. enter vac mode doesnt bring ur ships back to ur planet.

5. The benefit of having gal fleets is they are mobile and moving around the central part of the galaxy and therefore have only a 4 tick arrival time alowing 1 extra tick for def to be gotten.

6. Any fleet sent to the gal defense force, CANNOT be used for the first 5 ticks, this is to discourage people who missed the eta 5 tick from donating the ships to the MoW and having them send them and stil being able to defend, that is cheating the system, so lets prevent that.

7. At the time of donation the ships you donate to the gal defense, NO LONGER COUNT TO YOUR VALUE. And no longer show up on unit scans as they are not orbiting your planet.

8. As when you donate the ships to the galaxy, the MoW cannot give them back immediately they also have to wait 5 ticks. In both instances this represents moving back to thier orignal planet, and recieveing new orders, and being reintegrated into the fleets that are still at home along with moving the donated ships off the galaxy defensive networks, and onto your planets defensive networks.

If ive missed any important drawbacks or bonuses that are approriate, please reply with them in a reasonable manner, and also YES I KNOW there seem to be a few more drawbacks than bonuses, but something like this usually does.

Edited to fix grammer and spelling.

[arbondigo]

Originally Posted by OrionIII

So i agree that this shoudl be a power granted to the MoW. But as with all game mechanics, the powers must be balanced with a draw back or two.

1. Allow the MoW to use any scan he has on any incoming our outgoing fleets of his galaxy. Fleets are for war, and that is his job. PERIOD. This represents his being linked to military systems on all planets.

I know a lot of people who wouldn't want any outgoing fleet scanned by someone in their gal. With the gal set-ups the way they currently are there are too many risks of spies and if the MoW is a spy then this is a big bonus for him to have.

Originally Posted by OrionIII

2. If the Planet who the scan is for DOES NOT have the technology to make the scan, the cost of the scan is TRIPLED. The scan is then posted to the galaxy status screen the way scans by alliance members are posted to the alliance attack screen.

And what if the MoW doesn't have the scan needed either? Does he magically have the power to produce scans he hasn't researched?

Originally Posted by OrionIII

4. The funds for the scans will come from the Gal Fund. and that will be a reason for everyone to donate. not enough donations means no scans for you. This would be something that was handled in galaxy, but thats my assumption on how most galaxies would handle it.

I'd rather donate resources to an alliance to do the scans on my behalf. I say this because spying in random gals, or semi-random, is always a big risk. Just get someone from your gal to report that you have incomings to the alliance and then they can do the scans for you. I think this would be a much more reliable way than hoping that the MoW is online and that your gal will actually cover you. If all of the gal has incoming then how will they manage to cover you effectively when an alliance will have a better chance of doing so?

Originally Posted by OrionIII

I have a small addition to the list of items that a MoW should be able to do, since ive got this going, ill post it here. Allow each planet to designate ONE and only ONE, of his fleets to be used for galaxy defense.


Drawbacks and restrictions to this would be:

1. The ships would be required to stay in the fleet they were donated in. no moving the ships between temporarily donated fleets.

I don't understand that point at all.

Originally Posted by OrionIII

2. When you donate a fleet, it is for a mandatory time length, say 72 hours minimum, then you can leave them for longer or request them back AS LONG AS THEY ARENT INVOLVED IN ANY DEFENSE!

What do you mean by donate? Does sending defence ingal class as donating? If that's the case then i think that will be the end of ingal defence.

Originally Posted by OrionIII

3. THEY CAN ONLY BE USED FOR DEFENSE!

Don't think you can attack ingal anyway

Originally Posted by OrionIII

4. This item will be up for debate but... allow a planet to donate his ships to the galaxy defense if he is going into vacation mode, i.e. enter vac mode doesnt bring ur ships back to ur planet.

A gal defence fleet has been debated before and got rejected. I don't know where the thread is but have a little search and you'll find it i'm sure. Nowadays alliances are much more important than gals so their defence is more likely to go there than to gal mates unfortunately.

Originally Posted by OrionIII

5. The benefit of having gal fleets is they are mobile and moving around the central part of the galaxy and therefore have only a 4 tick arrival time alowing 1 extra tick for def to be gotten.

See above

Originally Posted by OrionIII

6. Any fleet sent to the gal defense force, CANNOT be used for the first 5 ticks, this is to discourage people who missed the eta 5 tick from donating the ships to the MoW and having them send them and stil being able to defend, that is cheating the system, so lets prevent that.

So basically unless you see the incoming at eta 9 the gal defence force is pretty useless.

Originally Posted by OrionIII

8. As when you donate the ships to the galaxy, the MoW cannot give them back immediately they also have to wait 5 ticks. In both instances this represents moving back to thier orignal planet, and recieveing new orders, and being reintegrated into the fleets that are still at home along with moving the donated ships off the galaxy defensive networks, and onto your planets defensive networks.

So they're in the gal defence fleet for a mandatory 72 hours? But it takes 5 hours before they can be used there, and another 5 before you can use them again, so they're effectively gone for 82 hours? Plus there's no guarantee any of it will come back. If this was to come into force i'd like the option of being able to pull whatever i sent to this defence fleet incase the MoW sends them on suicide defence.

Originally Posted by OrionIII

Edited to fix grammer and spelling.

grammar

[Veedeejem!]

giving the mow some extra features would be great.
I've been mow for 3 rounds strraight and i haven't seen any use for it to be honest

[BasiltheCat]

Excellent Idea

[LordBrem]

If you do this, MoW will simply become whoever is from North America. Then he will be on for attack times and the rest of the gal can prelaunch and sleep with no consequences.

[MAdnRisKy]

Sorry how is the gal going to pre launch defence fleets without knowing the incomming?

and just how early do you do your scans?

and why shouldn't newbie gals set up attacks earlier and use prelaunch? the more "leet" players will spot it earlier from jgps, but at least it makes it easier for newer players to attack more, and as a coherant mass, which has got to be a good thing for the game evolution right?

[LordBrem]

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

Sorry how is the gal going to pre launch defence fleets without knowing the incomming?

Attack fleets. Only the MoW needs to be online to be able to get everyone fully deffed. Right now, YOU have to be online if you want a fleet scan.

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

and why shouldn't newbie gals set up attacks earlier and use prelaunch? the more "leet" players will spot it earlier from jgps, but at least it makes it easier for newer players to attack more, and as a coherant mass, which has got to be a good thing for the game evolution right?

Sure. But if they then go to sleep and get inc and don't wake up, the defenders should be relying on UNITS, not on fleets. Expecially considering that it takes active players a LOT longer to get fleet scans. Not only do you make being awake at night irrelevant, you give smaller people with few roids an advantage.

[MAdnRisKy]

Originally Posted by LordBrem

Attack fleets. Only the MoW needs to be online to be able to get everyone fully deffed. Right now, YOU have to be online if you want a fleet scan.

Well actually unless you're in a big gal... you spend a lot of time fleet swapping, so being online really helps.. infact... I believe even the big gals do this too even though they have the luxury of out of gal defence as well. and assuming buddy methods for gal creation, the MoW wouldn't always WANT to help the gal members alliance wise, but WOULD help for in gal def, and that's where it's advantagious to have access to fleet scans for the intra gal defence.

Sure. But if they then go to sleep and get inc and don't wake up, the defenders should be relying on UNITS, not on fleets. Expecially considering that it takes active players a LOT longer to get fleet scans. Not only do you make being awake at night irrelevant, you give smaller people with few roids an advantage.

now we were saying tech for scans is based on both the planet in question and the MoW so if you don't research fleet scans the MoW can't make the scan for you. nqp as to the first half, that's the same as above.

and to the last point, what you're promoting is a more fluid game, with newbies being able to compete with, but not surpass, active more experience players which is good for round fluidity and player retention.

[Eol]

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

and to the last point, what you're promoting is a more fluid game, with newbies being able to compete with, but not surpass, active more experience players which is good for round fluidity and player retention.

Most games get harder as you progress in them. I find PA a tad strange in that it gets disproportionally easier as your progress in it.

[Pinkerton]

Maybe The MoW can scan for only small Value planets, much like the way that the MoD can only donate to the below average planets. That way if you get a late arrival mid game The gal ministers can help defnd him Until he gets above a certain size.

[Slowfinger]

The MoW should have some ingame function (other than to fanny around with the Message from the Commanders), but lets not get carried away.

Fleet donations for ingal def would be great for the MoW to control, it would mean the MoW need some extended knowledge of the ship stats and give them something to actually command, however I think donating a fleet for 72hrs is a bit much, 8hr stints would be more realistic imo, and you can only donate 1 fleet per 24 hr period. The cons to this would make attacking extremely more difficult, and this would not help gameplay at all. Perhaps if the donated fleets had an ingal eta of 6 or 7 this may combat that, or if ALL other eta's were reduced by 1. Implementation of this would also make the MoW the most important minister in the galaxy by far, as he'll directly have an affect on the galaxies physical attributes (roids/score), whereas the other ministers dont.

Giving the MoW the ability to fleetscan other members incs would be more realisitic, provided both planets have the technology required ofc. Compared with the other ministers duties, I think the MoW will still have the most important job, but it wont affect the outcome of the galaxy as much as the previous one.

Failing these two, at LEAST let the MoW setup galaxy attacks ingame (just like the alliance attacks). Elaborating on this with a very wholey idea, gal attacks would work just like ingame alliance attacks, but if 6 or more planets from 1 gal launched hostile fleets to another (within a 3 tick period), max cap would be say 33% instead of 25%, encouraging more galaxy co-operation, especially with buddy packs going down to 3 next round.

[MAdnRisKy]

we have done inter galactic defence fleets before in rnd 2... they were not good then, they won't be good now, esentially because it is galaxy score which is untouchable.. or it is gal score which is wasted (and for those that don't care about gals, read resources which could be used for alliance or for planet). You could in essence if you're huge, build up a large moveable defence fleet comprising of the best ships, which can never be attacked or fleet caught, and it becomes very difficulyt to stop something like that being made none abusable. and either way that idea is off topic and should be in a seperate thread, so moving right along...

it's clear that some form of scanning for the whole galaxy done by the MoW and funded from the galaxy fund would be a welcome feature, but the problems are over balance and design. i'd suggest testing it

[Nahoj]

I agree testing the idea would be good. Maybe in private beta would be best. I really think we need to give the MoW something to do even if it isnt scanning. I just happen to see scanning as the most useful feature.

-nahoJ

[Nahoj]

It seems this thread has died down I suppose that means perhaps we have finally learned all thr pros and cons. Later I'm going to sit down and Try and summarize it and post a summary which will hopefully breed new discussion or complete agreement (doubtful).

-nahoJ

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by Nahoj

I really think we need to give the MoW something to do even if it isnt scanning.

Why? Wouldn't it be easier to just get rid of the MoW?

The MoW is just a remnant left over from one of Spinner's failed ideas from like 10 rounds ago. It should have been abolished years ago. Or, alternately, rename it as Minister without Portfolio and leave it as a plum for the GC to hand out to some loyal gal member. He doesn't have to have anything to do.

Surely it can't be good game design to first create a unit and then try to find something for it to do? Instead, you should decide what the game needs (in terms of balance or interest or whatever) and then create the units necessary to achieve that end. For example, if you think galaxies need some sort of additional scanning capability, then approach the problem from that angle.

[macros69]

I agree with the most of what banned has said especially the first post. However I feel that the best way to get round this problem would be to have it in the same way as alliances share scans on attacks. However with a few changes.

1: The MoW would be the only person to see the fleet scans done by the defending planet
2: The scans would have to be done by the planet under attack for them to appear on the MoWs screen
3: If an attack appeared and the MoW was not Online and the GC changed the MoW then the new MoW would not be able to view the information on the current attacks happening in his galaxy he would only see information on attacks started whilst he was MoW. This would stop the GC changing the MoW to suit who is online at that moment.

The way i would lay this out would be that in the MoW's politics page he would have a screen quite similar to alliance attacks but could not add targets they would just appear as new attacks took place. This way the MoW so any scans done by the defending planet would automatically appear here. Obviously other scans apart from Fleet scans could be done by anybody like they are now but information would have to be shared in the same way as before. I dont know how well i explained my 3 points so if i lost you please reply and ill try and explain a bit better.