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14 Feb 2015, 07:52
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#351
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee
Releasing PM info is no problem for me. People want to see what goes on behind the scenes so I'm more than happy to show.
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PA is just about reaching 1918!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow Wilson 14 points
1, Open covenants of peace, openly arrived at, after which there shall be no private international understandings of any kind but diplomacy shall proceed always frankly and in the public view.
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Of course it never made that much of a difference, dealings are often still private or in secret, take TTIP at the moment. Though at least there are not so many of these 'pre round deals' that we keep arguing about here. Treaties and alliances no longer remain secret even if they are not yet openly arrived at.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy
Otterly an Otter.
Last edited by booji; 14 Feb 2015 at 08:03.
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14 Feb 2015, 08:42
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#352
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Munkee, why are you posting PM logs on the forum? Are you trying to get everyone who ever felt you wernt a total douchbag(wich i allready knew), to join the club of munkee haters(a club im a gold member of)?
Sometimes(most times) Clouds is a proper pr@ck, but now your just bringing it to a new level.
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It's not like these logs contained intimate private information.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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14 Feb 2015, 09:34
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#353
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Mordar, Keel, Reip
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Finland
Posts: 333
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
posting any logs from any PRIVATE conversation is extremely dick, if they were meant public, they'd been public to start with.
Machado: Always take my posts with a handful of salt, sarcasm and humour. I just can't be all that serious when it comes to AD, yet, I won't lie either.
__________________
Wolf in a pirates clothing to the highest degree, standing behind the curtains.
All the war propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting. - George Orwell
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14 Feb 2015, 11:18
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#354
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoXiouS
posting any logs from any PRIVATE conversation is extremely dick, if they were meant public, they'd been public to start with.
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Not necessarily. Many things are only sensitive for a little while, and can become public without causing damage when that time has passed. Corporate finances, planned military operations, alliance raid LTs, the list goes on.
In this particular case, we're dealing with a conversation between 2 HCs. Both sides will almost always immediately share the information with other HCs, and some of it with alliance members, at which point it is practically public anyway. Changing from rephrasing to direct quoting is too small a step to justify a change in moral judgement from 'perfectly OK' to 'extremely dickish'. In fact, I'd argue it's better to directly quote the other party (with context), because when paraphrasing you introduce intentional and unintentional bias.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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14 Feb 2015, 11:35
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#355
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KK
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 662
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoXiouS
posting any logs from any PRIVATE conversation is extremely dick, if they were meant public, they'd been public to start with.
Machado: Always take my posts with a handful of salt, sarcasm and humour. I just can't be all that serious when it comes to AD, yet, I won't lie either.
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He probably wouldn't feel the need if BF didn't either a) take it out of context or b) manipulate what was actually said
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14 Feb 2015, 11:47
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#356
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 297
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Is the posting of logs not against forum rules?
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14 Feb 2015, 12:19
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#357
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krypton
He probably wouldn't feel the need if BF didn't either a) take it out of context or b) manipulate what was actually said
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There was no manipulation involved. Those logs clearly show how both parties were very opinionated on their views. That being said, I doubt Black Flag will want to liaise with Munkee in future rounds. That doesn't mean we won't work with p3nguins again, it just means that we would prefer to talk to someone more trustworthy who isn't going to post logs on a public forums like an idiot.
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14 Feb 2015, 12:32
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#358
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds
...I doubt Black Flag will want to liaise with Munkee in future rounds. That doesn't mean we won't work with p3nguins again....
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You may have lost trust in munkee (though those logs show precious little existed in the first place) but at least you have decided to call p3nguins by its proper name rather than insultingly downgrading our digit...
must be a typo!
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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14 Feb 2015, 12:43
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#359
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo
You may have lost trust in munkee (though those logs show precious little existed in the first place) but at least you have decided to call p3nguins by its proper name rather than insultingly downgrading our digit...
must be a typo!
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Hehe. I had too many people ask me why I use the '2'!
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14 Feb 2015, 13:48
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#360
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh
Is the posting of logs not against forum rules?
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No. Posting of long logs inline is against the forum rules. Posting links is fine.
(I am not a mod.)
Quote:
The posting of large IRC logs and/or News reports is boring and of no interest to the large majority of board users. Ten lines is the maximum allowed length for posted IRC logs. If you wish to post such things then make sure they are to the point and easy to read or provide a suitable link.
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__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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14 Feb 2015, 14:39
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#361
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Shadows and Dust
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Black Bastion
Posts: 329
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Watching two girls argue wasn't as fun as I thought it would be.
J/k
__________________
Nick: Swing
R3 or so - Cell/Elysium
Looong break
R20 - Orbit
R21 - Subh (Finished rank 58)
8 year break
R60 - ND -> Ultores (Finished rank 48)
R61 - Rogues
14:05 <Swing> I wear a cape and a burger king paper crown when i play pa
14:10 <Zwanstic> u also talk alot of shit
14:14 <Blue_Esper> you're a weird unit
12:33 <hone> oddr is where we send all the semi retarded and gay bashing ult has beens LOL
12:34 <hone> thats where u should be swing lol
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14 Feb 2015, 15:35
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#362
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king of carrot flowers
Join Date: May 2012
Location: 'Ampshire
Posts: 101
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Booooooring! Someone make something up already.. What's happening in the great, bad world of pa atm?
Logs are crap, fabrication is where it's at!
__________________
I finished high once, not as high as you, but then I ain't talking about rankings..
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14 Feb 2015, 16:02
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#363
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
It's not like these logs contained intimate private information.
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The conversation is private, if it was meant to be public, why dont munkee do his political discussions in a public channel?
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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14 Feb 2015, 16:32
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#364
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
The conversation is private, if it was meant to be public, why dont munkee do his political discussions in a public channel?
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1. Read my response to NoXiouS.
2. All is fair in love and war. This was not love, but it is war.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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14 Feb 2015, 19:54
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#365
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
1. Read my response to NoXiouS.
2. All is fair in love and war. This was not love, but it is war.
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Telling your friends about what you did last night with a girl in bed, is diffrent from showing the tape you were recording of it.
Obviously sharing of information about a conversation between two HCs is normal, at some times you can paste part of a convo in your HC channel, but pasting it to other people outside your trust circle is for me a no-no.
Im sure others are in doubt wether to answer next time he PM.
Trust is hard to earn, and easy to lose
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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14 Feb 2015, 19:59
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#366
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Friends and Foes
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Estonia
Posts: 461
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
The conversation is private, if it was meant to be public, why dont munkee do his political discussions in a public channel?
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Maybe we should banish Munkee to russia, so he could hide there with Snowden. People deserve the truth!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
All is fair in love and war. This was not love, but it is war.
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Can we be sure that it's not Love?
__________________
ASCENDANCY
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14 Feb 2015, 20:28
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#367
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Inquisitor
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: England
Posts: 2,207
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
This round sounds like it has been fascinating on politics.
Big props to Ultores if they've managed to really manipulate the politics in their favour, I always saw politics as one of their weaker areas personally when paired off against them with Spore.
Grudges and such naturally have a place in the game, but if your alliance is looking to win then you have to be able to make a decision "for the greater good".
I also fail to see how an alliance not joining in on hitting an enemy is automatically hostile. In my time as Executive, I had numerous occassions where an alliance would not join up with Spore against an enemy yet at times a simple 'stay out' was more than adequate.
__________________
----------
That uniform you're wearing
So hot I cant stop staring.
Zhil
[Spore] Executive
[1up]
[Fury]
Inquisitorial Lord Protector of His Emperor's Glorius Empire
[20:19:04] <mazzelaar> I have to say a big up to Zhil - without those 8 def calls you covered we would've been screwed. | r12 End Ceremony
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14 Feb 2015, 20:38
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#368
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Don't make me declare war
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 2,913
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Yes Zhil they most certainly have.
Ult are the best team defensively.
Ult have been the best team politically.
13 Days left and I have to say GG ult, you deserve the win.
Round is over.
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14 Feb 2015, 21:23
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#369
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Telling your friends about what you did last night with a girl in bed, is diffrent from showing the tape you were recording of it.
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And an armed bank robbery is different from petty theft at your local supermarket. Your point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Trust is hard to earn, and easy to lose
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What the hell are you talking about, dude? This isn't a deeply hurtful breach of personal privacy within a tightly knit group of friends we're talking about. It's an enemy HC trying to turn public opinion in his alliance's favour, by using PA-related communiqués that make his opponent look bad. Munkee is not Cloud's bestest bestie on the whole world, he's the enemy, for crying out loud, that's what enemies do!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Im sure others are in doubt wether to answer next time he PM.
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That's just foolish. No one is going to refrain from communicating with p3nguins because munkee posted some logs at some point. You lose much more by ignoring a top 3 alliance than you do by risking looking like a fool on AD.
This is something you do all the time: you pretend to voice the opinion of the majority, when in reality you have no clue what the majority think, all you're doing is trying to turn public opinion against an enemy HC. Which is not illegal (see above), but it is something you will get called on. Like now. I just wish you weren't so obvious about it.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 15 Feb 2015 at 08:49.
Reason: i = dum
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14 Feb 2015, 22:51
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#370
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
P3ng not CT :P
__________________
R4-5 DDK
R6 Vanx
R7-R10 FAnG
R10 Eclipse
R10.5-R13 FAnG
R20-23 CT
R23 (CT BG) ToF
R24-R82... CT
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14 Feb 2015, 22:54
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#371
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
He's not wrong; they're not going to refrain from communicating with CT either because of munkee...
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15 Feb 2015, 08:49
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#372
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by [DDK]gm
P3ng not CT :P
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Uhh. Don't know how I mangaged to **** that one up. Edited!
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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15 Feb 2015, 14:51
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#373
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Error
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 359
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by booji
Some kind of cooldown and ceasefire after a war is usual so really should not be considered equal to a nap.
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i know my english sux, ok, but nap imho means non agression pact.
so any kind of "lets stop hitting each other ok?" its a nap.
so, again, imho, in both cases, they napped ult. and was in this time that ult hit the other one.
__________________
#braSilFTW
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15 Feb 2015, 15:06
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#374
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
I tend to think there is a different level of security between an ingame NAP and one that is just a verbal agreement.
However my original point was not about the CF, the point was that both alliances had tried to fight Ult before getting to that point (hence it was a ceasefire). BF did not. I am sure you see a difference there.
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy
Otterly an Otter.
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15 Feb 2015, 22:59
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#375
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!!!AMERICA!!!
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 793
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Other than avoiding anything I think Ult had very little to do with their current situation P3n and CT were both top alliances and both well better off than Ult ... neither could cooperate well and both chose to screw up political relations with smaller alliances. Why would any alliance want to help them ... interesting round where the little guys actually decided the winner. Not to say ult is bad ... Ult probably could have deserved more of a win if they supported the smaller allies better too, but i havent been around for a few days maybe they have.
From what I remember Ult basically was the less d*ck of the front runners.
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15 Feb 2015, 23:13
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#376
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Dictator
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
I don't overly see where you are coming from with that post MM.
P3ng this round had only ever been targeted by nd of the "smaller" e.g. non t3 allies. In fact p3n has naps with faceless and Vikings after early discussions this round and has also remained friendly with rainbows and hr for the vast majority of the round.
As per previous rounds I pushed to be friendly with nd this round and even set up a joint chan with car and subsequently got souls inolved to. From the outset souls made it clear he wanted to be friendly with us and we discussed naps etc. Within a few days nd without warning began targeting us with bf and ult.
From that point on I had no interest in working with nd. That was my decision based on how previous rounds with them had gone in very similar directions and it seemed this round was going the same way. The leaked hc logs came out and confirmed the "plans" and sealed the deal in my mind as to where their motives lay.
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16 Feb 2015, 01:00
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#377
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Previous rounds p3ng has been Bows top hostiles, this round p3ng has not PMed me once, and i addition to having a diffrent fleet strat of ours, it just wasnt meant to be that we were sided together when it mattered.
Also the early NAP we had with ND had a clause that we wernt to cooporate with allies with CR/BS strat(p3ng)
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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16 Feb 2015, 08:59
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#378
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Also the early NAP we had with ND had a clause that we wernt to cooporate with allies with CR/BS strat(p3ng)
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That's interesting. Why was that clause included? Were those fleets mentioned because they're problematic in and of themselves, or was it a veiled attempt to keep you away from the alliances who picked them?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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16 Feb 2015, 09:23
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#379
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
That's interesting. Why was that clause included? Were those fleets mentioned because they're problematic in and of themselves, or was it a veiled attempt to keep you away from the alliances who picked them?
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We knew landing FR fleets on alliances like Ultores/Black-Flag/CT(to some extent), who was XAN/ETD FR heavy would be very hard, if not impossibole at times due to the stats being totaly horsesh*t in our(my) view.
Broadsword faking would mean we cant land them, therefor it would be natural alliances to avoid.
Keeping the value of p3ng down early would mean it would be possibole to land their planets later on if their value wasnt that much bigger than ours.
Meanwhile im sure p3ng picked FL/Vikings/HR as possibole "allies" from early on was due to their race/strat setup aswell.
I voiced it pretty clear after these stats was finished off that they should not be considered to be played due to a very few options for alliances to go with, and im pretty sure if p3ng hadnt gone for CR/BS the round winner could still be undecided.
The main problem with these stats compared to R56 is the change for the cath scarab, if IsildurX hasnt been to focused nerphing cath as a race, the other options apart from FR would been more tempting.
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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16 Feb 2015, 09:30
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#380
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Previous rounds p3ng has been Bows top hostiles, this round p3ng has not PMed me once, and i addition to having a diffrent fleet strat of ours, it just wasnt meant to be that we were sided together when it mattered.
Also the early NAP we had with ND had a clause that we wernt to cooporate with allies with CR/BS strat(p3ng)
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That would seem to imply that a lack of p3n Rainbows relations is not all p3n's fault. If you had any interest at all you would not have agreed to it (this assumes it was ND not you who wanted the clause).
Also there must be some communication between rainbows and p3n even if not through you. Rainbows is the only alliance we are not napped with who are marked ingame for p3n as being 'friendly' (despite your nap with ult).
__________________
Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy
Otterly an Otter.
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16 Feb 2015, 09:55
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#381
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by booji
That would seem to imply that a lack of p3n Rainbows relations is not all p3n's fault. If you had any interest at all you would not have agreed to it (this assumes it was ND not you who wanted the clause).
Also there must be some communication between rainbows and p3n even if not through you. Rainbows is the only alliance we are not napped with who are marked ingame for p3n as being 'friendly' (despite your nap with ult).
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All politics went through me this round, even though some of the other alliances HCs tend to want to PM some of the other HCs in rainbows, maybe due to them thinking reaching some sort of agreement with me would be more difficut than with someone else from our HC team.
Yes, we at some point had some common interest hitting BF, but by this time i think it was too late for anyone to make a stand against Ultores.
I suggested this clause due to the nature of the stats, even though looking at it now we have not attacked p3ng much, and p3ng havnt attacked us a lot either, not due to some deal or common understanding of avoiding each other, but due to how politics went for us so far this round.
Perhaps how we have dealt with politics this round will come back to hunt us another round in the future where we are in a position to do achieve something better rankingwise than we are this round, as i can agree that we are a part of the reason why Ultores seems to have bagged this win.
Alliances as p3ngs and CT has not given us much incommings, and has been threating us very nice this round, i kind of feel bad that we aint helping them out now with trying to overtake the alliances at the top atm.
Ult on the other hand has also been threating us very nice, and has not given us any incs, and i have no intention going back on the word i gave Zwans when we agreed to being friendly earlier on this round. If p3ng/CT/BF had been able to cooporate, they couldve achieved sucsess vs Ult without us on the bandwagon, but from my point of view it has only been CT who have seemed to be interested in doing the things needed to be done for this to become possibole.
__________________
RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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16 Feb 2015, 10:51
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#382
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
If p3ng/CT/BF had been able to cooporate, they couldve achieved sucsess vs Ult without us on the bandwagon...
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In other words you would love it if we could hold ult back a bit... but heaven forbid you have to dirty your hands!
CT/P3n have been hitting ult for days without any success now...
Even though it is complete speculation since BF never had any intention of hitting ult... I have to wonder if the addition of them would change much, they would surely just run into broadswords.
__________________
An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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16 Feb 2015, 11:04
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#383
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo
In other words you would love it if we could hold ult back a bit... but heaven forbid you have to dirty your hands!
CT/P3n have been hitting ult for days without any success now...
Even though it is complete speculation since BF never had any intention of hitting ult... I have to wonder if the addition of them would change much, they would surely just run into broadswords.
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No, dont get me wrong, i would like to have Ult win the round, as they seem to be very strong, but i think it would better from a overall univers perspective that they would have to fight more for it the last 300 or what not ticks.
Also i have a lot of respect for how CT has played this round aswell, they seem to have taken a lot of incs early on wich has set them back, but are still going at it, where most alliances wouldve given up.
Well if BF had been in it, Ult would at some point be fleeted, so i assume you couldve done it.
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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16 Feb 2015, 11:18
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#384
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a bucket
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Chatham, UK
Posts: 1,073
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Well if BF had been in it, Ult would at some point be fleeted, so i assume you couldve done it.
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I suspect p3n is sending fewer fleets than rainbows would be at the moment
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Proud to have been TGV!
aargh! died in Jenova! | idled in ROCK | disappointed in Audentes | been Roguish | p-p-previously a p-p-p3nguin
Ascendancy
Otterly an Otter.
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16 Feb 2015, 11:21
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#385
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by booji
I suspect p3n is sending fewer fleets than rainbows would be at the moment
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RainbowS was just around 20-30 members when this round started, with this number we were never gonna be competing for the top spots.
So if p3ng is sending less fleets than bows id question the morale of the members in p3ng, giving up so easily.
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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16 Feb 2015, 11:23
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#386
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Paso Leaute
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 919
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Also i have a lot of respect for how CT has played this round aswell, they seem to have taken a lot of incs early on wich has set them back, but are still going at it, where most alliances wouldve given up.
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I honestly dont get u here... they spent a large portion of early/mid round in an utterly pointless war with ND that hampered their ability to then fight off Ult.
Had there been a realistic prospect of CT help P3n would not have given in so quickly in our first war with Ult.
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An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
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16 Feb 2015, 11:32
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#387
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Dictator
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
I could write a novel around why butcher doesn't get spoken to when it comes to relations between bows and p3n. In short however he doesn't like us for some reason and has always backed ult (you only need to read previous round threads to see the amount of times it ha s been commented on his brown nose in ults bum).
I find the other hc there much more honest and trust worthy. Butcher often goes against their judgement to make relations become heated
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16 Feb 2015, 11:38
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#388
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
We knew landing FR fleets on alliances like Ultores/Black-Flag/CT(to some extent), who was XAN/ETD FR heavy would be very hard, if not impossibole at times due to the stats being totaly horsesh*t in our(my) view.
Broadsword faking would mean we cant land them, therefor it would be natural alliances to avoid.
Keeping the value of p3ng down early would mean it would be possibole to land their planets later on if their value wasnt that much bigger than ours.
Meanwhile im sure p3ng picked FL/Vikings/HR as possibole "allies" from early on was due to their race/strat setup aswell.
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Maybe I'm missing something, but how is this an answer to my question why you decided to exclude the possibility of cooperation with Cr/Bs alliances?
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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16 Feb 2015, 11:53
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#389
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Maybe I'm missing something, but how is this an answer to my question why you decided to exclude the possibility of cooperation with Cr/Bs alliances?
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The whole stipulation is funny as shit because ND is a CR/BS alliance in itself (or at least most members opted for CR/BS this round).
I personally will never accept clauses that limit who my alliance can or can't work with when it is not an obvious and direct enemy of both allies. Considering the deal between rainbows and ND started before PT100, there was no such thiing as an obvious and direct enemy.
Furthermore, as a FR ally, if you wanted to hamper other FR allies, hitting them before broadswords became common would have been the way to go. Which voids even the tactical reasoning behind this stipulation.
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don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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16 Feb 2015, 12:06
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#390
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Maybe I'm missing something, but how is this an answer to my question why you decided to exclude the possibility of cooperation with Cr/Bs alliances?
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You cannot work/cooporate with the whole univers, and therefor to me atleast, there would be some sense in working with a alliance you simply cannot land.
CR/BS allies how ever we had somewhat a chance of making calcs go in our direction in terms of attack, as they are reliant on prelaunched EMP to out flack all your FR.
Making sure CO/DE/CR/BS allies had as little value as possibole would increase our chances of landing roids.
Again this rounds stats is complete dogsh*t, and i honestly cannot understand how people can claim otherwise looking at the current univers standings.
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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16 Feb 2015, 12:09
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#391
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee
I could write a novel around why butcher doesn't get spoken to when it comes to relations between bows and p3n. In short however he doesn't like us for some reason and has always backed ult (you only need to read previous round threads to see the amount of times it ha s been commented on his brown nose in ults bum).
I find the other hc there much more honest and trust worthy. Butcher often goes against their judgement to make relations become heated
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My personal opinions dosnt influence what decisions bows tend to go for.
We tend to always be in agreement inside our HC team wich deals we want to go for or not.
If there is some disagreement, one of us usualy just hold our breaths untill our face goes blue and yellow to get his/her will.
And if you knew your history, i used to be one of the biggest anti Ultores players out there. Ive never been brown nosing anyone tbh.
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
Last edited by BloodyButcher; 16 Feb 2015 at 12:26.
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16 Feb 2015, 12:14
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#392
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
The whole stipulation is funny as shit because ND is a CR/BS alliance in itself (or at least most members opted for CR/BS this round).
I personally will never accept clauses that limit who my alliance can or can't work with when it is not an obvious and direct enemy of both allies. Considering the deal between rainbows and ND started before PT100, there was no such thiing as an obvious and direct enemy.
Furthermore, as a FR ally, if you wanted to hamper other FR allies, hitting them before broadswords became common would have been the way to go. Which voids even the tactical reasoning behind this stipulation.
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Well it seems obvious to me that ND had some sort of masterplan on how to play politics this round(according to the famous pastebin), and that they had allready decided to stick with BF for longterm relations, wich made it reasonable to agree to some agreement where a alliance they wernt sure they would cooporate with back in terms of value/political freedome.
Influencing the political options your "enemies" got is a part of the whole political scheme.
But the clause for no CR/BS allie NAPs was agreed on after pt200 iirc btw.
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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16 Feb 2015, 13:43
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#393
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Dictator
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 634
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Since you seemed to enjoy my last paste of screenshots and logs I could provide some further to really show what you were doing butcher. However, as we all love to speculate I will simply say I know for a fact the agreement you made was not related to your targeting options on "crbs" allies.
To back this up without utterly embarrassing you can you name a time when rainbows has targeted p3ng this round with the intention of executing your "lets keep the cr/bs allies value down". I'll save the pain of having to read a 2000 word essay from you to cover this up or try and put the reasoning on to someone else, its none. You haven't targeted us for roids once, which makes the whole premise behind your so called agreement false.
I was told the start of this round it was well agreed that p3ng should just aim for top planets as there will be no cooperation from old "friendly" allies to help them sustain a number 1 finish.
Stop boring everyone with your pathetic lies around hostile history. p3ng have been rainbows top hostiles every round because of you deciding to randomly p target unprovoked (whichyour fellow hc had no idea why you did). Right now you have an ingame nap request which has sat for a week, which the "other hc's" agree with but not you. However once again you arent targeting us to execute your crbs roiding plan. Why?
Quote:
No, dont get me wrong, i would like to have Ult win the round, as they seem to be very strong, but i think it would better from a overall univers perspective that they would have to fight more for it the last 300 or what not ticks.
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Quote:
Ult on the other hand has also been threating us very nice, and has not given us any incs, and i have no intention going back on the word i gave Zwans when we agreed to being friendly earlier on this round.
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16 Feb 2015, 14:39
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#394
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Im just sharing my view of our politics and the ship stats munkee.
If you and Clouds belvie there is some higher biasedness towards BF or p3ng inside our HC team, then its nothing i can say to convince you for soemthing diffrent
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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16 Feb 2015, 14:49
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#395
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
CR/BS allies how ever we had somewhat a chance of making calcs go in our direction in terms of attack, as they are reliant on prelaunched EMP to out flack all your FR.
Making sure CO/DE/CR/BS allies had as little value as possibole would increase our chances of landing roids.
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I see, I understood your original post as saying that ND would only NAP (or continue to NAP) with Rainbows if you promised not to work with Cr/Bs alliances. But in fact it was the other way around, you telling ND not to cooperate with Cr/Bs alliances?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
The whole stipulation is funny as shit because ND is a CR/BS alliance in itself (or at least most members opted for CR/BS this round).
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So what made Rainbows decide to NAP one Cr/Bs alliance, and no others? Why this specific one?
(Just general questions, not specifically aimed at you, Influence.)
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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16 Feb 2015, 15:08
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#396
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
I see, I understood your original post as saying that ND would only NAP (or continue to NAP) with Rainbows if you promised not to work with Cr/Bs alliances. But in fact it was the other way around, you telling ND not to cooperate with Cr/Bs alliances?
So what made Rainbows decide to NAP one Cr/Bs alliance, and no others? Why this specific one?
(Just general questions, not specifically aimed at you, Influence.)
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RainbowS had been working with ND last round, and they had been a very loyal friend, and they seem to share our view on teaching up new players.
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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16 Feb 2015, 15:59
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#397
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Another complete non-sequitur.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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16 Feb 2015, 16:32
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#398
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Another complete non-sequitur.
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Another fancy word for the foreigners to learn? :P
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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16 Feb 2015, 17:31
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#399
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Finally retired
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 788
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Another fancy word for the foreigners to learn? :P
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google is your friend! and frankly, it's a fancy word for non-foreigners to learn as well.
__________________
don't be an arse, join [TiT]
In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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16 Feb 2015, 17:54
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#400
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Propaganda Chief
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
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Re: R60 mid round turmoil
I still dont understand what he is going on about.
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RainbowS
RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
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