Hi LCH

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Seth Mace

Y
Ill explain this for you just once m8 but ND allying with 1up to take on LCH (who had a substantial lead at that point), was the reason said alliance would NEED to find allies. Then look at the likes of Sin, ToF who also started helping 1ups targetting and you have a totally unbalanced war.

From my opinion, it kind of went like this:

MISTU were a force in this game early on, and (presumably with LCH) were heavily targetting ND.

MISTU were then killed by some alliances (I'm sure you can help me out here), so it does indeed make sense for a lot of reasons why HR then turned on 1up, and were indeed targetting 1up after ND/1up started hitting LCH. So one might argue that ND were in a position where they are either left isolated against LCH (who would kill them given the chance later on), VsN (who would also kill them), HR (who aren't the friendliest towards ND at the best of times), and 1up (as extra general incoming on top) or indeed they could maintain their relations with 1up and attempt to have a prosperous round, instead of facing MISTU's fate, because at least 3 or 4 other alliances made a rod for their back.

ND are now in the position (as you detail) where the very alliances who've been attacking them all round and are being called to swap sides 'because 1up are bad' - What objective reasoning is this exactly?

I fail to see any - attacking 1up then leaving yourself isolated makes no sense to me. The majority of alliance politics appear to based on we 'hate Sid and 1up' from what i can gather. Here's a thought for you - how about politics based on 'we want to win the round?' - a few weeks ago ND were in a position where they had the potential to win. LCH and co decided to end that, in some desperate hope that they'd buckle, and hand the round to them on a plate by going about turn. ND were made of sterner stuff, and 1up overtook LCH regardless (infact at probably a quicker rate). You'ld have thought it would have been better to install ND as leaders, then take them down, as they're probably easier to overtake than 1up but hey ho too late for that i guess.

[furssie]

More and more people take intraweb too seriously these days

[Spritfire]

So you guys think 1up are the only one's LCH planets come crawling on the floor asking for naps ?
rofl

Think they have asked the 1/3 of top 10 ( the 2/3 rest of top10 are ofc napped so no incs from there )

[jerome]

Originally Posted by Seth Mace

Iwhich has been officially stated as false by ME on numerous occassions

yes because your the most reliable source of info "heh", I mean, since having never said a word resembling anything negative towards HR, noone expects you to start now.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

yes because your the most reliable source of info "heh", I mean, since having never said a word resembling anything negative towards HR, noone expects you to start now.

don't be a hypocrit jerome m8, you never said a bad word about 1up either. Zhil NEVER EVER said a bad word about Fury, does that make him unreliable all the time? Does that make you? Doest that make me for always sticking up for FAnG etc?

Seriously m8y, your view imo is a tad bit hypocritical.

[Seth Mace]

Zhukov, if i ever needed evidence of you making baiting replies, you just gave me one for Christmas :xmas:

(weee, i got to use Xmas smiley \o/ )

Hehe aye Kj, like ANYTHING its all about point of view and mine kinder goes without saying!

HR had a lot of Mistu incomings also lokken (when they were still up there), infact the day ND launched their assualt on HR (with NoS, ToF), we were basically about to change our whole mill direction towards Mistu because of the amount of incomings from them.

The biggest problem for ND imo, is they have helped an alliance who DIDNT need help and inturn start the mechanics of a block war (and in turn get a few allies aggravated at their politics). This bit is DEFO just my opinion though, as im sure others will state of a few attack-coops already about pre-1up/ND block (although others may suggest the 1up-ND one was there from the start too?).

Anyway, i just felt at the time of the 1up-Lch "war", before any1 else really got involved, that the sides were pretty equal? If someone knows better then this, please say otherwise - This request dont include replies from jerome or zhukov because the "OMG HR-NAP LCH!!" sh1t u stirred all those weeks ago was clearly propaganda.

[Veil05]

Funny. LCH are willing to take #2 position this round.

you could of won with so much ease. you still can, just get your balls grab hold of them... squeeze as tight as u can, and click "launch fleet".

[The_Fish]

The sides were equal, when 1up first started on LCH.

Well, LCH had a massive lead on roids, ships and members, but they were both doing equally well. Our 2 alliances were also battering each other to pieces. MISTU were taking easy roids from everyone. ND changed our focus to hit MISTU with MANY alliances. We didn't do this to help 1up. We did this to help the game and ND. Everything has done to help ND and occassionally the game too. We haven't done anything to help 1up specifically. Only to help ourselves, and on occasion, help 1up too as a side effect (roiding the top gal with LCH members helped ND, and 1up, for example).

Our plan from day 1 was to win the round. LCH being gutless is what we didn't anticipate, and its why we are currently 4th, and not 1st. You can't deny any of this, it's all true.

[LocknLoad]

Looks to me as ND are the gutless ones.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Seth Mace

(although others may suggest the 1up-ND one was there from the start too?).

Just point of reference, my arby access showed 1up as random at the start of the round (like the majority of allies were). They were ONLY added as NAPd later in the round. If my memory serves, I only noticed them being added when we started hitting LCH and AFTER the collapse of Mistu.

Only from memory/what I saw though.

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by LocknLoad

Looks to me as ND are the gutless ones.

Yeah. Whatever.

[Barrow|Pony]

Originally Posted by LocknLoad

Looks to me as ND are the gutless ones.

Oho! An argument both witty and stellar in its endless complexity. I thank you for enlightening us with this revelation and beg of you to procure equally deep and mind-shattering points such as this in the future!

O, how you have broken my spirit.

[Lord_Thunderball]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

The sides were equal, when 1up first started on LCH.

Well, LCH had a massive lead on roids, ships and members, but they were both doing equally well. Our 2 alliances were also battering each other to pieces. MISTU were taking easy roids from everyone. ND changed our focus to hit MISTU with MANY alliances. We didn't do this to help 1up. We did this to help the game and ND. Everything has done to help ND and occassionally the game too. We haven't done anything to help 1up specifically. Only to help ourselves, and on occasion, help 1up too as a side effect (roiding the top gal with LCH members helped ND, and 1up, for example).

Our plan from day 1 was to win the round. LCH being gutless is what we didn't anticipate, and its why we are currently 4th, and not 1st. You can't deny any of this, it's all true.

I think indeed most things above are very true. Still the nap (It's at least a nap) which ND had with 1up, made sure 1up could focus purely on LCH, while multiple alliance's where hitting LCH (ND/Mistu etc etc). LCH was #1, but we all know that the core of 1up is the #1 in planetarion. The far better tactic for your own chances would have been... Knock down 1up (Who we know, fight like hell, are pretty damn good, and don't go down easy). And take down LCH later (which people call cowards and a shit alliance). So if ND would really go for the #1 spot, napping 1up, would be a every stupid option. With making those decisions (I still believe you worked together a bit closer, but even without that). ND made sure they would never be the #1 alliance, but only 1up or LCH could make it. LCH winning the war, would not allow a victory for ND. And 1up winning the war, would drive the victory even further away, since you got a nap with them. Hitting 1up, taking on LCH later with others, would have been far better imho.. Also I do believe that a shared goal between ND/1up was formed way before LCH / MISTU/ VSN/ Hr shared the same focus on hitting 1up / ND (Which failed). My gal (And I believe whole LCH) had still incoming from VGN / Mistu / 1up and ND while it was already know ND and 1up where kinda heading the same direction.

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Lord_Thunderball

I think indeed most things above are very true. Still the nap (It's at least a nap) which ND had with 1up, made sure 1up could focus purely on LCH, while multiple alliance's where hitting LCH (ND/Mistu etc etc). LCH was #1, but we all know that the core of 1up is the #1 in planetarion. The far better tactic for your own chances would have been... Knock down 1up (Who we know, fight like hell, are pretty damn good, and don't go down easy). And take down LCH later (which people call cowards and a shit alliance). So if ND would really go for the #1 spot, napping 1up, would be a every stupid option. With making those decisions (I still believe you worked together a bit closer, but even without that). ND made sure they would never be the #1 alliance, but only 1up or LCH could make it. LCH winning the war, would not allow a victory for ND. And 1up winning the war, would drive the victory even further away, since you got a nap with them. Hitting 1up, taking on LCH later with others, would have been far better imho.. Also I do believe that a shared goal between ND/1up was formed way before LCH / MISTU/ VSN/ Hr shared the same focus on hitting 1up / ND (Which failed). My gal (And I believe whole LCH) had still incoming from VGN / Mistu / 1up and ND while it was already know ND and 1up where kinda heading the same direction.

What you say is possibly a way ND should have gone, but I personally think we did it right.

The reason I think that is although 1up may be a lot harder to break than LCH, but I always felt we would get more support against 1up than against LCH. If it came to it, at this point in time, ND and LCH were the top 2 alliances, I think very few of the t10 allies would want ND to win. Certainly HR, VsN, VGN and MISTU wouldnt be on our side. I don't think 1up would have been, too, had we decided to help bring them down.

My personal expectation was LCH to be pegged back to the same level as 1up, with ND a fair bit behind. LCH and friends would have then thrown the kitchen sink at 1up, to stop them winning, giving ND a run to the top. However, LCH and friends instead threw the sink at ND, leaving 1up with an easy (but most deserving) victory.

Just want to stress that I am quite pleased 1up have won, no-one has deserved a win more in any round imo. With only 67 members from tick 1, hitting the #1 alliance all round, deserves a lot of respect.

[Cochese]

I would have liked to see ND win it tbh.

[Barrow|Pony]

There's always next year.

[jerome]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

don't be a hypocrit jerome m8, you never said a bad word about 1up either. Zhil NEVER EVER said a bad word about Fury, does that make him unreliable all the time? Does that make you? Doest that make me for always sticking up for FAnG etc?

Seriously m8y, your view imo is a tad bit hypocritical.

I`ve said plenty of bad words about 1up, though sarcastic at times

[Desse]

Originally Posted by Seth Mace

(although others may suggest the 1up-ND one was there from the start too?).

.

Then Barrow wouldn´t have suicided at my planet a couple of weeks ago witn a ND friend

[mazzelaar]

Originally Posted by Desse

Then Barrow wouldn´t have suicided at my planet a couple of weeks ago witn a ND friend

I have to say - that was one of the crashes of the round imo. Barrow is the most stylish man in PA.

[The_Fish]

To be fair, everything he does is stylish.

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Lord_Thunderball

political analysis

I think that's highly flawed - say ND took down 1up, and contended with LCH.

It would probably only have:

Perhaps a crippled 1up on it's side.

The rest of the universe is far from friendly to it, considering VsN are effectively in LCH's pocket, HR don't like ND for one reason of the other, and I wouldn't say MISTU making an agreement with ND is likely.

The situation of ND this round seems to suggest therefore to stick with 1up, or face political isolation.

[Lord_Thunderball]

To win from 1up, you need more then one alliance. We've seen this last round, and I didn't expect anything else this round (Also not 67 vs 100). Sure 1up did a help of a job, you don't hear me saying otherwise. Still I think a war like I described would leave more options open. I can think that also HR could have smell the #1, with ND/LCH and HR at top. LCH on top, all hitting them.. Would be a nice catch up for both ND and HR, which don't like eachother, so should be a nice fight as well. I think this would have givin ND a much higher chance to win then choosing the path they have choosen. But due the fact that 1up with ND on there side is #1, HR/Mistu/VsN choose LCH's side. Imho, before we saw 1up at #2, there was no mutual goal, and these alliance where not 100% sure sided with LCH, if they still could fight for their own chances.

Just my opinion ofc

[Razorback]

Lokken made the best analysis of the round.

ND had no real chance to get "support" for their #1 campaign.
Allmost all alliances are or were at the decision point hostile towards them and what real choice would nd have had in the #2 1up and #1 lch scenario, instead of hitting lch ?
If they had hit 1up they might have crippled the drive to take down the #1 and would have cemented LCH's round victory. If they went also for LCH they land in the situation they are in today.
There was no way out for them and they were then demonized and called as the prime target by LCH's and HRs pr attempts. Considering this, why would they help one of them to win ?

Everyone with 2 cents worth logic can see if you were in their shoes you would fight to the end and do everything so one of those doesnt win. Not because you might get off better but because you can piss them off.

ND is the best example of how somene can be forced into a corner and how this can backfire on their opponents plans.

As a last note, if LCH really wanted to win this round they would have taken on 1up. Against such a strong alliance you can only win if you destroy it, not by simply hoping to outroid it.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Razorback

Everyone with 2 cents worth logic can see if you were in their shoes you would fight to the end and do everything so one of those doesnt win. Not because you might get off better but because you can piss them off.

ND is the best example of how somene can be forced into a corner and how this can backfire on their opponents plans.

As a last note, if LCH really wanted to win this round they would have taken on 1up. Against such a strong alliance you can only win if you destroy it, not by simply hoping to outroid it.

This is how it seems to have gone.

ND would have been willing to continue as they had throughout the round, but LCH played for second, and have done nothing to deserve first, therefore ND would hate to be their peons and kingmake them by turning on 1up.

True story.

[rnd|One]

Just checking around here weekly or so, I'll add my view on how the round seemed to progress:

Most of the round was spent battering whomever held the #1 alliance spot.

With the low membercount number of 1Up, they were never considered a threat until very late in the round. Even when 1Up's players on average were much better off than most alliances, they were still not considered a prime target as they were not #1.

Seems like the dynamics of (atleast) these two views really helped 1Up to be what they are this round.

LCH was unfortunate enough to gain a convincing enough lead, given a bit of spin by the usual PR doctors on AD, they were cast as being unbeatable -- it just wasn't possible to overtake their "massive" lead in combined member score. Likely the same scenario repeated in smaller scale to knock out previous contenders (MISTU?).

As a consequence LCH was levelled to the ground, yet they still kept the #1 spot, which somewhat marked their doom given the mechanics of the round. 1Up took their time in catching up, there wasn't really any rush... they knew it was going to happen eventually.

I'm not sure what the deal with ND was, but it seems this alliance was talked into believing a lot of fairytales ("we can be #1", "1Up will make us kings -- we deserve it" etc.). A plan likely set in motion by 1Up to cover their backs, in case LCH would recover at some point. Seems like this plan broke the rounds mechanics where each alliances was given the impression they could take the round with the levelling of a given #1 alliance to match the progress of others. This time ND did not participate anymore to even the odds, they had chosen their candidate and it was 1Up.


(Someone can fill in the holes and all internal mumbo-jumbo which an outsider isn't aware of.)



Commenting on this thread:

ND tried to sneak towards #1 by having LCH and 1Up weaken each other on a 1on1 war? Definitely whine-worthy on the forums with the failure of such a plot.

[Gate]

The whole point was, LCH still had a large lead in roids and score (Tens of millions of score, and tens of thousands of roids), but they purposely ignored 1up. They gave them nights of hard incomings, admittedly, but never for long. ND suffered 5 nights within a week where they had more incoming fleets than members, receiving vast numbers of incs from LCH, VisioN and MISTU, with some random hostiles (Insomnia over 2 days whilst they were hitting NoS in our gal, VGN and Angels too on certian targets. Oh, and LCH's largest players hitting ND and ignoring 1up). 1up agree that ND were the main targets and received far more incomings far more regularly. Not only that, but ND have received more days of concerted incoming since LCH have fallen to second. One night of hardcore incs on 1up is what I heard from several of their command staff, whilst ND suffered larger numbers of incs over several days.

LCH let 1up have a comparitive easy ride, and can now take the position that you, cheerios, have taken. 'ND let 1up win!111'. I think they played for second, but hoped that some PR spin could be done (Such as 'ThePeoplesVoice's attack, and the viewpoint you have taken) that might just let them sneak 1st.

Far easier ride than playing for first tbh, they're guaranteed second and still have a (small) chance at #1. And don't get the embarrassment of finishing below ND, who have never been a hardcore alliance.

[Almeida]

i wish someone would post The_Fish's psotings on the internal ND forums from the early round...
i won't do it as i don't have the authority to do it, but after reading those posts it would be really clear what ND wanted to achieve and how they wanted to achieve that.

[The_Fish]

/me reads through the Officer forum.

/me sees nothing there that I havent already said, or that I've lied in any way.

[Gerbie]

Clearly ND is the kingmaker. I'd like to see them make another king though. There's not much time left, but it would be a shame if those last days were boring.

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Gerbie

Clearly ND is the kingmaker. I'd like to see them make another king though. There's not much time left, but it would be a shame if those last days were boring.

As previously stated many times, there is NO incentive for ND to king any alliance, 1up deserve this win. No-one else does.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Almeida

i wish someone would post The_Fish's psotings on the internal ND forums from the early round...
i won't do it as i don't have the authority to do it, but after reading those posts it would be really clear what ND wanted to achieve and how they wanted to achieve that.

You missed my thread where I started a discussion on what to do about 1up being first. \o/

The consensus was obviously '**** LCH; why should we help to crown them when they've not tried to win for themselves.' :/

[Almeida]

i ment the thread called '1up'

[The_Fish]

I cant find that thread, I assume it was deleted.

However, my opinion hasn't changed, and everything I said there was true.

choosing the 1up route was our best chance of success.

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Gate

The consensus was obviously '**** LCH; why should we help to crown them when they've not tried to win for themselves.' :/

Gate has clearly the ability to put complex matters into uncomplicated words.

Gate wins of capturing the essence of LCH's chicken s*** attitude to winning.

[genosse27]

Originally Posted by TeK

Lame?

LCH cant win the round, I told them once before and ill say it again, attacking me when i left LCH as neutral was the mistake of the round. ( Im 1up )

LCH also cant win the round because the HC allows the top members to fence sit! Yes thats you elviz and cocteau :eek:

haha, this is soo stupid its even funny. 1up had no top planet before u defector a$$ went on a egoistic trip and choosed to jump over to 1up. Its easy to see the reason. u want to win the round and its harder to win if there are 4 allied planets in top5.
and on another note... u went into vac mode, so attacking you little coward was a bit "impossible"

[LukeyLove]

:O tbh every time i attack 1up.. they get ND def as well as 1up def.. maybe thats why we attack ND? because 1up dont return the favour to ND?

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by LukeyLove

:O tbh every time i attack 1up.. they get ND def as well as 1up def.. maybe thats why we attack ND? because 1up dont return the favour to ND?

hahahahaha... so many obvious flaws in that statement I'm not even going to bother pointing them out.

one wonders why you posted then - Lok

[lokken]

I defend my 1up member in galaxy, he defends me. That's about as far as it goes for a figure very close to 100% of ND, I'd wager.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by lokken

I defend my 1up member in galaxy, he defends me. That's about as far as it goes for a figure very close to 100% of ND, I'd wager.

It's also strange that ND would choose to send their defence fleets to 1up, when throughout this war, we've received by far the heavier incs, overall.

[Neferti]

i don't recall ever sending def to anyone outside my alliance - except in gal (and we have no 1up in my gal) so i guess someone's intel is bad as i've been on a fair few defenses...

[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by genosse27

haha, this is soo stupid its even funny. 1up had no top planet before u defector a$$ went on a egoistic trip and choosed to jump over to 1up. Its easy to see the reason. u want to win the round and its harder to win if there are 4 allied planets in top5.
and on another note... u went into vac mode, so attacking you little coward was a bit "impossible"

If 1up could only have a top planet through taking TeK into it's folds then why oh why do we have so many strong, and top 100 planets/players? And it IS possible to attack TeK remember? You tried that, and we defended.

In other words, you're just wrong. 1up had top planets at the time of TeK's defection, and even if he never defected he would have never have hit 1up and thus have been a total waste to LCH - but then I don't think LCH really care about that.

[jerome]

Originally Posted by genosse27

haha, this is soo stupid its even funny. 1up had no top planet before u defector a$$ went on a egoistic trip and choosed to jump over to 1up. Its easy to see the reason. u want to win the round and its harder to win if there are 4 allied planets in top5.
and on another note... u went into vac mode, so attacking you little coward was a bit "impossible"

?

what ?

1up have had atleast 5 of top10 all round . (From tick 200 atleast)

[Mek]

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov

So you had no plan to try to stirr up anything?
The "correct" way to stirr up on AD is to first ask a question, then if the person denies, post the evidence (aka intel). In your case, you have a problem. You dont have any intel.
Besides, its not "bestest" and its not "intell".

It wasnt like you could hit LCH was it? As you had been napped with LCH from the start.
The cards were already given out, what was left, was to play with them.


Good attempt at "I write some crap, so I can dogde the questions".



There is bigger fish in the sea than SiN and ToF (no offence to those).
ND makes it decisions based on what suits ND, not a hate towords 1up, like other alliances seems to do.


That is your assesment. ND thinks otherwise. I think otherwise.



I agree. My reading problems are non-existant, and therefore your correct to call the "not a public problem". Your reading and writing skills, on the other hand...

just a few spelling mistakes you made yourself.....dont criticise if your not perfect yourself m8 (also your grammar wasnt really upto scratch either, but im not gonna labour on the point m8 )

public anouncement for zhukov: the mistakes are in bold!

ty :xmas:

p.s. dont flame me for my spelling...i know its not perfect, i dont put it out as perfect

[The_Fish]

Lets be faire, English isnt his native langauge. If he was English like me and made spelling mistakes, then you could critisise.

(note: irony)

[lokken]

OK any more posts about spelling get deleted, back to the ranch please

[MonkeyBoy]

After reading some replies can't stop meself saying this :

The_Fish his head is so far up Sid's <you know what> that I doubt he is giving his own explanation on this.

It's the <you know what> comes out of his mouth...

And that attack on TeK was covered by multiple alliance who wanted to catch some LCH fleet.

Also that "defecting/spying" twat TeK talks about fence sitting while that little twat always went on his "own" attacks.

[Barrow|Pony]

Butt and shit?

I agree. Fish needs to clean up his butt and shit.

[The_Fish]

And Barrow needs to get some more roids.

I am not up Sids arse at all, everything I have said is my opinion, and more importantly, the truth.

Everything I have said makes sense, and for the most part, is unquestionable. Except my drunk posts, but most of them get deleted anyways.

[G.K Zhukov]

Fish is a wonderful exampel of the english culture of binge drinking.

[Chika]

Everyone is looking at the entire ND/1up thing from the wrong angle. Everyone is also looking at the entire LCH/CO. deal from the wrong angle also. If ND was 1up, and vice verse, ND would be #1. It wasn't about ND making 1up kings, or 1up making ND kings. It was simply ND/1UP hitting LCH, and 1up doing 4-5 gals a day, and ND obviously doing less. Thats what it was. What it boils down to is activity. If ND had the same activity as 1up, then ND would easily be #1. Everyone keeps saying these silly analysis, when it is simply one thing. And the fact that LCH are Bozo's also helps a lot to.