PDS - we love to hate them

When pds shoot first we all got pis**d off that it killed too much

when it shoots last its pointlesss

so why not make all pds emp? so they kinda shoot first and they do their job and we dont all moan about huge losses

/me thought of this when he was bored :P what u think?

[Cochese]

That would create a mess of things, balance-wise.

It would depend on what the individual turrets initiatives/targets were, but even then, Cath would have a disadvantage since EMP ships don't target PDS.

[Ap0k]

2 reasons why i dislike this idea

1- it would make any cath a yet bigger target (altho saying that, any cath who builds pds imo is a bit silly anyway)

2- you would essentially be giving the rest of the races the defence benefits of cath, they could freeze, then kill ships. the balance of the game would go completely tits up :\

[[Cymru]]

The only way of getting EMP into pds fairly would be too let the cathaars only have some emp pds, for targetting the ships they find it otherwise hard to freeze/destroy such as the battleship problem they've had recently.

Though as Apok said, this doesnt stop the bashers sending in a huge kill fleet meaning cathaars either lose all their pds and run ships or risk their fleet too.

This is a case which would be too hard to test and calculate for it to be fair i think.

[RealJames]

PDS has its place in the game, the place is hated by a lot of the hardcore players, but it's a card the the newer or less-connected player holds, and I most certainly think it should go in at lowest/first initiative.

[Judge]

Originally posted by RealJames
(snip/) PDS has its place in the game,

Ha ha ha!!!


Sorry couldnt resist it.

[RealJames]

Originally posted by Judge
Ha ha ha!!!


Sorry couldnt resist it.

I totallly fail to see your point.

[Judge]

Originally posted by RealJames
I totallly fail to see your point.

I know mancunians are thick but cmon fella ffs?

[Bashar]

pds in my opinion should stay as killers, simply because, if there is a lot of it, it is a real challenge to get through it, and the only people who build a lot of pds are those who have no alliance/small alliance. Big alliance players don't as it serves no purpose in assisting their alliance, and for a big alliance, mobility is the key to success, getting everything to where the enemy is attacking on defence, and everything to where the enemy is not defending on attack. pds helps with neither on a regular basis.

As such, pds is kind-of a built-in anti-bashing incentive. Hence, it should remain relatively unchanged (except for balance purposes).

[RealJames]

Originally posted by Judge
I know mancunians are thick but cmon fella ffs?

I'm not actually Mancunian by birth. If you're just going to flame me for lack of better things to do then I suggest you kindly p|ss off. If you want to have a civil discusion about PDS then feel free to, that appears to be the taken purpose of this thread.

[Fifth_teletubbie]

PDS was fine when it fired first imo.

[Judge]

Originally posted by RealJames
I'm not actually Mancunian by birth. If you're just going to flame me for lack of better things to do then I suggest you kindly p|ss off. If you want to have a civil discusion about PDS then feel free to, that appears to be the taken purpose of this thread.

OK u got it.

PDS is useless, why?

For the following reasons.

1) it cannot be used to defend your Galaxy mate who is under attack
2) same goes for your alliance, friends, cat and dog.
3) It places your score at risk, if you get massive hostiles it cannot be relocated to elsewhere to save it.
4) You need that much of it in relation to it's worth, that it is crippling in aiding the game.
5) It SUX big time
6) It is a completely selfish thing to pursue (see 1 and 2)

7) PDS Phhhhhhft......... *spit*

8) it SUX

9) it SUX

10) Only n00bs bother with it in the vain hope that it will protect them.

Is that clear enough, or do you completely fail to see the humour.

[Bashar]

Originally posted by Judge

4) You need that much of it in relation to it's worth, that it is crippling in aiding the game.
5) It SUX big time

That I don't agree with - it is ridiculously powerful at times.

[wakka]

As you guys well know I am a huge fan of PDS. knowing this you also know I like to play cathaar. I am a firm believer in the freeze and kill theory. But I'm thinking that PDS should all have different initiatives throughout the attack. Say meson-0 tachyon-10 pulse-14 hadron 16 Ion-28 this would bring them more inline of the uppermiddle of the road in firing sequence. Instead of taking turns at the end of an attack, which is way too late to help you. or all firing at once at the beginning of an attack, which is " I can't believe I'm saying this" Unfair to your attacker. there I said it. Well thats what I think. I'm sure if anyone dissagrees with me the posts will be forthcoming.

[Judge]

Originally posted by wakka
As you guys well know I am a huge fan of PDS. knowing this you also know I like to play cathaar. I am a firm believer in the freeze and kill theory. But I'm thinking that PDS should all have different initiatives throughout the attack. Say meson-0 tachyon-10 pulse-14 hadron 16 Ion-28 this would bring them more inline of the uppermiddle of the road in firing sequence. Instead of taking turns at the end of an attack, which is way too late to help you. or all firing at once at the beginning of an attack, which is " I can't believe I'm saying this" Unfair to your attacker. there I said it. Well thats what I think. I'm sure if anyone dissagrees with me the posts will be forthcoming.

When PDS fired first ala R3? (I think) it was way too powerful, perhaps your suggestion has some merit?

IF Pds is going to be a useful tool, then it should perhaps be more specific in it's targeting? and also it should be hard to destroy.

But that makes for PDS junkies which would soon make for a stagnant game.

I think the idea of a Galaxy defence Fleet is more useful? But it would have to be a LOT better than it used to be, and under the direction of at least 2 Ministers.

[Telest]

People built PDS last round, hence it has it's place in the game.

The very best feature of PDS last round was that you couldn't run with it. Hence Xandathrii people didn't have much point fake-attacking you as the PDS would have taken the hit anyway. There was no reason whatsoever to run the fleet as that wouldn't have lowered defender's damage. A pretty valid tactic for minimal investment in my book.

It also allowed you to convert eonium into score. And as much as some hardcore "all-for-the-alliance" people would want to think, being able to evade some random attacks does help your alliance also, and the investment is very small.

[RealJames]

Originally posted by Judge
OK u got it.

PDS is useless, why?

For the following reasons.

1) it cannot be used to defend your Galaxy mate who is under attack
2) same goes for your alliance, friends, cat and dog.
3) It places your score at risk, if you get massive hostiles it cannot be relocated to elsewhere to save it.
4) You need that much of it in relation to it's worth, that it is crippling in aiding the game.
5) It SUX big time
6) It is a completely selfish thing to pursue (see 1 and 2)

7) PDS Phhhhhhft......... *spit*

8) it SUX

9) it SUX

10) Only n00bs bother with it in the vain hope that it will protect them.

Is that clear enough, or do you completely fail to see the humour.

Oh, it was supposed to be funny.

That aside you do raise some good points. PDS can't be run, PDS can't be sent on defence. It is the gamble you take with building it. It has become less useful as the game has become more elite but hopefully the player base will expand again with this new lease of life and management that PA has been blessed with.

[DarkAngel]

PDS is fine as it is .. the better players shouldnt moan 2 much as they should know the ways in which it can be breached, noobz should love it for what it is, a deterant of incoming, after incoming, after incoming ... and another box to bash "999" in ...

[Scaggydo]

Originally posted by Judge
OK u got it.

PDS is useless, why?

For the following reasons.

1) it cannot be used to defend your Galaxy mate who is under attack
2) same goes for your alliance, friends, cat and dog.
3) It places your score at risk, if you get massive hostiles it cannot be relocated to elsewhere to save it.
4) You need that much of it in relation to it's worth, that it is crippling in aiding the game.
5) It SUX big time
6) It is a completely selfish thing to pursue (see 1 and 2)

7) PDS Phhhhhhft......... *spit*

8) it SUX

9) it SUX

10) Only n00bs bother with it in the vain hope that it will protect them.

Is that clear enough, or do you completely fail to see the humour.

he didnt say it was good, he said it had its place. like many of the completely unbalanced things in this game which are either dire or overly powerful.. tweaks it needs.. not removing.

[Gerbie]

PDS was used in the last rounds, but hardly. It deserves a minor improvement. I like the idea of improved firing orders.

[Dante Hicks]

PDS is fine when it's powerful. It's supposed to be hard (harder than it's equivalent in ships) since it's worthless in so many other ways (see Judge et al's posts). It adds something to the game. When Game had 1 million laser turrets (or whatever) in R3 I remember being in awe knowing that even if I could somehow increase my fleet by a factor of 10 and suicide on him, I'd still die without firiing a shot.

[woze]

he he.. i remember that..

[RealJames]

Originally posted by Scaggydo
he didnt say it was good, he said it had its place. like many of the completely unbalanced things in this game which are either dire or overly powerful.. tweaks it needs.. not removing.

tbh the whole game needs constant tweaking, to provide variety, to provide new challenges and interest, to address inbalances that have arisen because of the game structure. The stats could be technically perfect if the game were to go in one direction, but find it goes a different way and the stats become grossly unbalanced. An example of that would be the excess of xand players and the lack of cathaar players last round, due to the stats being suited to a private universe, not a random one.

[Ultramar]

IMO PDS is great if your planning on sticking around for the fight! Especially early on in the game it puts off attackers who want free roids and they dont have PDS scans...

Another point, PDS+Cath can also be good cos it gives some much needed killing power rather than just frezzing attackers.

[RealJames]

Originally posted by Ultramar
IMO PDS is great if your planning on sticking around for the fight! Especially early on in the game it puts off attackers who want free roids and they dont have PDS scans...

Another point, PDS+Cath can also be good cos it gives some much needed killing power rather than just frezzing attackers.

At the end of R6 (pre-havoc) I finished 225th. I was cathaar and had 20k hyperon turrets. I'm quite confident that was more PDS for my size than any other planet in the t250. Hyperons owned in R6.

[wakka]

Judge I agree with you PDS should be very specific in targeting. now alot of PDS guys arn't going to like this Idea but I can't stop at the moment.so here goes remembering that PDS should all have different initiatives throughout the attack. Say meson-0 tachyon-10 pulse-14 hadron 16 Ion-28.

I think the "all" designation of pulse and above as a 3rd target should be removed and replaced with a 3rd ship type target also add a 3rd target to all PDS as follows...

meson-init 0 t-1 fighters t-2 corvetts t-3 frigs

tachyon-init 10 t-1 frigs t-2 corvetts t-3 fighters

pulse-init 14 t-1 destroyers t-2 frigs t-3 cruisers

hadron-init 16 t-1 cruisers t-2 destroyers t-3 battleships

Ion-init 28 t-1 battleships t-2 cruisers t-3 destroyers

I also am playing around with the idea of an EMP turret I think this would be awsome, they had em in round 3 but they sucked they could make em work better now though.

[Scaggydo]

why not make pds race specific the same as the ships.. maybe give the pds some sort of advantage that the particular races ships dont have to encourage pds building.. make it more popular..

[Al_zz]

PDS is excellent against Xan fake fleets.

Someone said it can't help your gal, it can't help your alliance and it is selffish. So players in sucky gals, without decent alliance should realy use it to great advantage !!!

Also to make it a bit more poular you could give away a nice set of free turrets when someone has done the construction. That would give back some immediate score for the investment in that tree.

hAl

[RealJames]

Originally posted by Scaggydo
why not make pds race specific the same as the ships.. maybe give the pds some sort of advantage that the particular races ships dont have to encourage pds building.. make it more popular..

To be in keeping with the races theme surely cathaar, the race that most needs it, would end up with EMP PDS, taking away from what little killing power they have.

Originally posted by Al_zz
PDS is excellent against Xan fake fleets.

Indeed a token amount of PDS is good against fake xand fleets, but then you can add enough fleet to kill the PDS...

[Jonas]

cost ALOT of eonium...Whether it should shoot first or last or maybe in same order as ships, some early, some later aløl depends on their power. I think they should cost more resources, less eonium tho and shoot early...as its very risky to get PDS. Cathaar should get an own pds bomber or something...

-Jonas-

[RealJames]

Originally posted by Jonas
Cathaar should get an own pds bomber or something...

That would be a fundamental change to PDS, and I must say I'm against it.

[Scaggydo]

Originally posted by RealJames
To be in keeping with the races theme surely cathaar, the race that most needs it, would end up with EMP PDS, taking away from what little killing power they have.

*sigh.. read my post again, i fear u missed the point.

it says, giving advantages to the races that their ships do not have, in order to make pds more attractive to build. ie, cathaar pds covers up cathaars kill weakness, while with other races different stats are increased in order to make it attractive to them too..

read all the words fella, not just the ones that are flamable..

[RealJames]

Originally posted by Scaggydo
*sigh.. read my post again, i fear u missed the point.

it says, giving advantages to the races that their ships do not have, in order to make pds more attractive to build. ie, cathaar pds covers up cathaars kill weakness, while with other races different stats are increased in order to make it attractive to them too..

read all the words fella, not just the ones that are flamable..

Firstly, I wasn't flaming. I find flaming pathetic, and as ex-Fury have suffered plenty of it.

My comment was that in order to follow in the theme of cathaar (the peaceful, freezing ones), they would probably not have powerful PDS. If you were to forgoe the theme and follow your idea then it possibly makes cathaar too powerful, but ofc stats are subject to often change, not necessarily just between rounds.

[wakka]

hey heres an Idea how about a zikonian with emp turrets. Oh man it would be a stealfest heh heh

but seriously I agree with the Idea to be race specific for PDS they should have stealing turrets emp turrets heavily armored turrets and heavy firepower turrets. also there should be a change to this PDS should stand for parimeter defence system these should be far out into space, they should be the first line then your ships then CDS close in defence system they should be planet based to shoot at only roid stealing ships... I know its a far out idea folks but they said big changes for round 10 nothing should be taken off the table right...

[woze]

oh great give the cats an advantage this round.. ^^..

just like they did to the Xan.. in r8 =)

would be funny to see a universe full of cats ^^

would be just better to have a function to " turn off" the pds so they dont fire...
you wont lose your pds... but you keep the score making the cap rate higher..

but this idea should be tweaked with a little to elimidate the threat of pds super farms ^^

[wakka]

your right last round you were either xan or you were toast. and ballance is nessessary. just went a little overboard with enthusiam,sorry but cathaars are my favorite race. their peace loving people that with a big pds kicks ass

[Scouse]

Originally posted by wakka
your right last round you were either xan or you were toast.

Xan were the best race by far, but the entire top planets were not dominated by them, so I'd hardly say 'you were either xan or toast'.

Originally posted by woze
would be just better to have a function to " turn off" the pds so they dont fire...
you wont lose your pds... but you keep the score making the cap rate higher..

Part of the point of PDS is that you can't run them once you get attacked, which being a disadvantage, balances out the advantages. If that were the case then they would just be like ships, which is not the point of PDS.

[gzambo]

i think they need to give PDS a lower initiative otherwise there's no point building them

correct me if im wrong but it does stand for
Planetary Defence System
how can something thats fires last defend u, now im not saying it should have first strike but their should be a balance between all types of PDS such as there is between the ships

[Scouse]

Yeah, I agree that PDS should shoot first, as it used to.

[hAl]

Lo Gzambo, why aren't you in private channels anymore ? You are going to play r9 aren't you ?

[gzambo]

Originally posted by hAl
Lo Gzambo, why aren't you in private channels anymore ? You are going to play r9 aren't you ?

ur too busy practising ur idle skills to notice me

[RealJames]

This may seem like spam to seasoned forums junkies, but it appears that not all of us can read down through the thread list to find a thread on the topic which we wish to discuss. Today there have been not one but two new threads on PDS even though this one is on most screen resolutions visible without even scrolling down at all.

This post is serving to bring this thread to the attention of those people.

Hopefully.

[Gerbie]

My idea for PDS inititive would be:
- Meson between Beetle and Vsharak (before the (killing) fighters)
- Tachyon between Corsair and Culdassa Arrowhead (before corvettes)
- Hyperon between Cutter and Wyvern (after frigates)
- Hadron between Peacekeeper and Hydra (before Cr, except Peacekeeper, cause it already sucks enough)
- Ion between Avenger and Dreadnaught (before most BS)

[hydridia]

I would make it so that the pds would find it harder and harder to target enemy ships the greater ur roid count!

so if you have low roids ur pds is so much more effective!
and its shoots first cos it has a clear shot!
the more roids your have the longer it takes for the pds to have a clear shot with all ur roids floating in the way hehe!

any way my two cents

[RealJames]

Originally posted by hydridia
I would make it so that the pds would find it harder and harder to target enemy ships the greater ur roid count!

so if you have low roids ur pds is so much more effective!
and its shoots first cos it has a clear shot!
the more roids your have the longer it takes for the pds to have a clear shot with all ur roids floating in the way hehe!

any way my two cents

That's a very interesting idea. Then again, the less roids you have the less likely you are to be attacked anyway, generally speaking.

[hydridia]

it would allow smaller planets to at least try and keep the roids they have managed to scrape together! hehe

[Judge]

Originally posted by hydridia
it would allow smaller planets to at least try and keep the roids they have managed to scrape together! hehe

Unfortunately it never has, (apart from when for a short while it fired first) The whole PDS concept needs stripping down and rebuilding from base up.

IF
Initiative were to be changed
It became a "gift" as part of a con/res project, as in so many of each turrets were given "Free" upon completion of the con/res (as suggested by Al_zz)
Specific Targeting of pods with the smaller PDS turrets, making effective defense available earlier.

It could be worthwhile, as it is, I have always found it fairly useless unless you can have massive numbers of turrets, in comparison with the number of roids.