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Unread 27 May 2016, 11:50   #1
Nitros
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r67 who will win

Hi guys,

I'm not playing, but the least I could do is make this thread.
Who will win?
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Unread 27 May 2016, 12:27   #2
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Re: r67 who will win

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Hi guys,

I'm not playing, but the least I could do is make this thread.
Who will win?
Cardinal ofc
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Unread 27 May 2016, 21:09   #3
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Re: r67 who will win

Not me, that's for sure.
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Unread 28 May 2016, 01:34   #4
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Re: r67 who will win

My money is on one of clouds bots

Ofc rainbows will win ally.
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Unread 28 May 2016, 01:51   #5
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Re: r67 who will win

Not playing, may make a roid farm account for everyone to enjoy though.

Probably not.
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Unread 30 May 2016, 22:07   #6
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Re: r67 who will win

rainbows is winning ofc..
we are top contenders.. no mercy for enemies.. fear us...
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Unread 31 May 2016, 09:55   #7
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Re: r67 who will win

There are no winners in this game... we're all losers here!
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Unread 31 May 2016, 13:25   #8
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Re: r67 who will win

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There are no winners in this game... we're all losers here!
I think what Joseph was trying to say is they're competing to be the biggest loser.
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Unread 1 Jun 2016, 10:14   #9
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Re: r67 who will win

We all know the real competition is between B-Butcher, ReaperSix and Krypton.
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Unread 1 Jun 2016, 13:42   #10
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Re: r67 who will win

Was trying to be ironic
But who cares
Fear us
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Unread 1 Jun 2016, 21:59   #11
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Re: r67 who will win

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Was trying to be ironic
But who cares
Fear us
Consider me warned!
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Unread 2 Jun 2016, 13:53   #12
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Re: r67 who will win

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Originally Posted by Veedeejem! View Post
We all know the real competition is between B-Butcher, ReaperSix and Krypton.
Last round was actually Butcher's best finish. lets see if he can follow that up.


Current scoreboard has Krypton slightly ahead but I think he's going to crash soon.
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Unread 3 Jun 2016, 17:28   #13
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Re: r67 who will win

Putting me as favourite is propaganda and mind games.
All i care about is beating the old sea dog Cochese
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Unread 10 Jun 2016, 11:54   #14
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Re: r67 who will win

Not a lot of action in here as there usually is.
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Unread 10 Jun 2016, 14:31   #15
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Re: r67 who will win

Don't poke the bear.
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 18:17   #16
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Re: r67 who will win

lol seems like people are at it again, abusing game mechanics yeay.
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 18:29   #17
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Re: r67 who will win

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lol seems like people are at it again, abusing game mechanics yeay.
How so?
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 18:33   #18
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Re: r67 who will win

its not hard to spot, ill give you a hint. one of the top 100 lists.
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 18:33   #19
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Re: r67 who will win

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Originally Posted by ReaperSix View Post
How so?
Guess he's looking at the def xp win we'll have.

Been talking about that it should be done for rounds already, pretty much impossible to stop

Fair play to benneh trying it out. Got to be boring as .....
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 19:00   #20
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Re: r67 who will win

Its more fun than the round you won fencing
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 19:06   #21
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Re: r67 who will win

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Its more fun than the round you won fencing
That was really boring as well!!! Trust me:P

*However you miss out on 2 mill score, so someone that want to try do the same still got a shot!
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 20:34   #22
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Re: r67 who will win

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Originally Posted by Sandvold View Post
Guess he's looking at the def xp win we'll have.

Been talking about that it should be done for rounds already, pretty much impossible to stop

Fair play to benneh trying it out. Got to be boring as .....
They will get closed as soon as someone reports them to mhs.
If its that 3:4 gal we are talking about.

Wether the farming is agreed upon or not, initiating roids so people can land the for free has been a punishable offense before.

CroWke initiated roids after getting himself FCed r49 by FAnG and bass.
While it was argued that we wouldve roided him regardlessly, the attacking fleet got recalled and crowke got closed.

This is a similiar case, and if the MHs get a decent report the xp win wont happend.
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 20:54   #23
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Re: r67 who will win

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
They will get closed as soon as someone reports them to mhs.
If its that 3:4 gal we are talking about.

Wether the farming is agreed upon or not, initiating roids so people can land the for free has been a punishable offense before.

CroWke initiated roids after getting himself FCed r49 by FAnG and bass.
While it was argued that we wouldve roided him regardlessly, the attacking fleet got recalled and crowke got closed.

This is a similiar case, and if the MHs get a decent report the xp win wont happend.
I didn't play for 40-50 rounds so not familiar with all the history of what have happened or not. But I can't see anything in the rules that says it's illegal.

It's abuse, not saying it's wrong, but it wasn't ment that way.

Also I can't really belvie the MH's haven't noticed before and it's quite sad that you got to report something that's not within the rules before being closed. They should have noticed by now.

That being said i'm not sure if it's against the rules or not, so no accusations ment benneh.

I think the most important about this is a rework on the xp forumla as it's a garantueed way to win
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 22:15   #24
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Re: r67 who will win

So far as I am aware there is no collusion between attackers and 3:4; they just make sure they are good enough targets that they get attacked and then def. Reinitiate after landing and repeat the cycle.

I agree the xp formula is silly; clearly there should be more experience gained when you lose ships in a bloody combat than from a one ship defence. There should not be a set number of 300xp either, it should be a sliding scale more similar to the attacking xp.
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 22:15   #25
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Re: r67 who will win

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandvold View Post
I didn't play for 40-50 rounds so not familiar with all the history of what have happened or not. But I can't see anything in the rules that says it's illegal.

It's abuse, not saying it's wrong, but it wasn't ment that way.

Also I can't really belvie the MH's haven't noticed before and it's quite sad that you got to report something that's not within the rules before being closed. They should have noticed by now.

That being said i'm not sure if it's against the rules or not, so no accusations ment benneh.

I think the most important about this is a rework on the xp forumla as it's a garantueed way to win

Abusing gaming mechancism is punishable, and it has been in the past.

The crowke inciddent was just an example that giving roids away for free is illegale.

Another inciddent is the Dav(the cheater) where he initiated a few thousand roids and had his gal exile him into c200 where he couldnt be attacked and could stay untill he logged in again.

Not against the rules i suppose, but still abuse.

The MHs is very community dependant, and myself have had around 3 digits planets closed.
And according to Ultores theyve reported planets wich remained open for weeks untill other alliances reported em for the same reasons.

Now this xp trick this round is creative, and very clever use of defence xp, the only issue ive having with it is the mass initiating/roid farming part of it.
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 22:19   #26
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Re: r67 who will win

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Abusing gaming mechancism is punishable, and it has been in the past.

The crowke inciddent was just an example that giving roids away for free is illegale.

Another inciddent is the Dav(the cheater) where he initiated a few thousand roids and had his gal exile him into c200 where he couldnt be attacked and could stay untill he logged in again.

Not against the rules i suppose, but still abuse.

The MHs is very community dependant, and myself have had around 3 digits planets closed.
And according to Ultores theyve reported planets wich remained open for weeks untill other alliances reported em for the same reasons.

Now this xp trick this round is creative, and very clever use of defence xp, the only issue ive having with it is the mass initiating/roid farming part of it.
It's very smart around 10 mill more from xp or so (14 if he does it extreme) ? takes like 3-4k roids avg from now with max xp beat him or so. Told several guys before it can't be beaten
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 22:23   #27
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Re: r67 who will win

Quote:
Originally Posted by booji View Post
So far as I am aware there is no collusion between attackers and 3:4; they just make sure they are good enough targets that they get attacked and then def. Reinitiate after landing and repeat the cycle.

I agree the xp formula is silly; clearly there should be more experience gained when you lose ships in a bloody combat than from a one ship defence. There should not be a set number of 300xp either, it should be a sliding scale more similar to the attacking xp.
There was no agreement between bass and crowke r49, and i think i had an 2 hour discussion about that with appoco and the MHs, this is very similiar.

So they should be closed, without a doubt.
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 22:55   #28
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Re: r67 who will win

If roid initiating its the problem then the mh seriously need to reconsider how they do things. This game needs more roids not less! Everyone likes gaining roids and get frustrated when they don't get them or lose them. As such creating a continual supply of new roids, that is not dependent on bashing nubs is vital for the game, and it is something that does not currently happen. Instead what happens is that ppl trying the game start, initrate a few roids, find they are roided into the ground and give up... Not helpful.

Additionally the mh should not be about killing off innovative strategies that don't break the rules. If the pa crew don't like the strategy the change should be to the game mechanics not reliant upon using the mh as a blunt instrument. Initiating roids is a key part of the game, defending is a key part of the game, I seriously don't see how combining the two can be considered cheating. If they are not initiating for particular people to land, if they are not only letting some special people through and stopping others, if they are aiming to win rather than to help others then I do not see how there can be any complaint or consideration that it is farming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rules and regulations
Farming is defined as: an agreement between the attacker(s) and defender(s) where one or both benefit. This includes farming roids, ships, salvage and XP.
There is no agreement, there is no intent to benefit individual attackers, there is no farming. If sending a one ship defence is is xp farming then half the players need to be closed, we are almost all guilty of at some point in the round opting to take 300xp because we have a spare fleet and a few ships but no hope of actually stopping an attacker (or possibly having no real desire to stop the attacker).
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 23:04   #29
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Re: r67 who will win

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
If roid initiating its the problem then the mh seriously need to reconsider how they do things. This game needs more roids not less! Everyone likes gaining roids and get frustrated when they don't get them or lose them. As such creating a continual supply of new roids, that is not dependent on bashing nubs is vital for the game, and it is something that does not currently happen. Instead what happens is that ppl trying the game start, initrate a few roids, find they are roided into the ground and give up... Not helpful.

Additionally the mh should not be about killing off innovative strategies that don't break the rules. If the pa crew don't like the strategy the change should be to the game mechanics not reliant upon using the mh as a blunt instrument. Initiating roids is a key part of the game, defending is a key part of the game, I seriously don't see how combining the two can be considered cheating. If they are not initiating for particular people to land, if they are not only letting some special people through and stopping others, if they are aiming to win rather than to help others then I do not see how there can be any complaint or consideration that it is farming.

There is no agreement, there is no intent to benefit individual attackers, there is no farming. If sending a one ship defence is is xp farming then half the players need to be closed, we are almost all guilty of at some point in the round opting to take 300xp because we have a spare fleet and a few ships but no hope of actually stopping an attacker (or possibly having no real desire to stop the attacker).
I think the same tbh and is why I said abuse and not cheating. The def xp wasn't intended that way but is now being used to win. And i have used the def xp + scan xp myself.

As i mentioned to appoco, when/if u change the def xp to something which u said scalable based on value/denying cap whatever. I haven't really been thinking of it. Then also change scan xp. Same type of scan on same target same tick = 0 xp. Round i won i scanned myself for max xp each tick and took less then 5 min. Something which also is an abuse.
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 23:21   #30
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Re: r67 who will win

If you had a choice between someone doing something clever with the game engine and someone rampantly farming, benefiting from escorts and getting away with it (a large number of #1s, lets face it), I'd say you would choose the former all day.
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 23:29   #31
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Re: r67 who will win

You can almost never prove a link between a farmer and farm, unless they were dump enough to use ingame mails.
Logs/Whatsapp logs/whatever is not accepted as proofs.

We had ArmAgeddon farm his former galaxy mate some rounds ago, the galaxy mate initiated roids and delete the incs from teh allie page. ArmAgeddon did not get closed cus we couldnt prove it was an agreement between them. ArmAgeddon won last round btw.
Nelito had some planet XP ride his gal to stop agar3s from winning the other round, numerous chat logs and whatsapp logs was given to the MHs.

In the CroWke example, much like this, the farm will be closed and while the farmer wont.
It happend back then, with the same rules basicly, and it will happend now as soon as someone cba to report it.

Not taking any credit away from those who are doing this thing, but they are cheaters, atleast by the MHs arguments from R49.

Would be funny if they started back trailing on it now.
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 23:41   #32
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Re: r67 who will win

scan XP becomes not worth it if you spam the scans in the same DAY, as explained in the manual http://game.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=formulae ->XP for scanning.

What comes to abuses, there's a quite clearly written portion under terms and conditions, available at: http://game.planetarion.com/terms.pl , out of which the most fitting would be: "Abusing game features in order to gain excessive XP (e.g. roid farming)".

I'm not taking a stand if it's against the rules or not and who defines excessive tho', it's a strat... is it "legal" maybe, maybe not, guess it's up to the community to decide.
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 23:46   #33
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Re: r67 who will win

Initiating roids for the community (rather than an individual or an alliance) should be seen as a service to the community not as something to be closed for. To me it is almost exactly the same as the bot planets that existed in 1:1 for quite some time - I imagine they must have come to be seen as abuse, or pointless as they no longer exist. Boosting the roids in the uni is a good thing. Providing somewhere that nubs can test out attacks is a good thing. I don't see a problem with initiating roids so long as it is not to give those roids to an individual or particular gal/alliance.

If there is farming in this case it would have to be the 'farming' of def xp. Which is difficult both because it is at one step removed; the roids are not the direct cause of the def xp. An even bigger problem, and the thing that I would object to, is that closing anyone for this act would certainly be picking on an individual when it is an act that has been done by a huge chunk of the community. If there are to be rules they need to be equally applied, this cannot be the case in this instance if there is to be a closure. I just don't see how it could be justified.
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Unread 13 Jun 2016, 23:51   #34
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Re: r67 who will win

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
scan XP becomes not worth it if you spam the scans in the same DAY, as explained in the manual http://game.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=formulae ->XP for scanning.

What comes to abuses, there's a quite clearly written portion under terms and conditions, available at: http://game.planetarion.com/terms.pl , out of which the most fitting would be: "Abusing game features in order to gain excessive XP (e.g. roid farming)".

I'm not taking a stand if it's against the rules or not and who defines excessive tho', it's a strat... is it "legal" maybe, maybe not, guess it's up to the community to decide.
I know how the scan formula work nox I've used it. Learned from looking at agar at kia:P Thing is that u can get around 600xp a day from scanning.

What i want changed is now u can scan same target the same tick with same scan. Also inc scan yourself. Takes you around 5 min to max out the xp. If you make the formula to something like: XP = (4*scan id / (1 + # of previous scans of that type since midnight GMT, if same scan id on same planet the same tick XP =0))

Then you can't scan yourself to get free xp. This is hugely profitable when ally pays for scans. Roughly around 1.75 mill free score for 5 min of scanning a day the whole round
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 00:00   #35
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Re: r67 who will win

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
scan XP becomes not worth it if you spam the scans in the same DAY, as explained in the manual http://game.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=formulae ->XP for scanning.

What comes to abuses, there's a quite clearly written portion under terms and conditions, available at: http://game.planetarion.com/terms.pl , out of which the most fitting would be: "Abusing game features in order to gain excessive XP (e.g. roid farming)".

I'm not taking a stand if it's against the rules or not and who defines excessive tho', it's a strat... is it "legal" maybe, maybe not, guess it's up to the community to decide.
Personally, i feel 'excessive' is when you stop playing the 'normal' game of attacking and defending, thankfully i am not a MH tho.
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 00:07   #36
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Re: r67 who will win

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Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
What comes to abuses, there's a quite clearly written portion under terms and conditions, available at: http://game.planetarion.com/terms.pl , out of which the most fitting would be: "Abusing game features in order to gain excessive XP (e.g. roid farming)".
This clearly needs to be defined rather than leaving it to being decided on an ad hoc basis which presumably it is at the moment. Do the mh refer to their body off cases to decide on definitions? They probably should, and those definitions (and preferably the cases) should be out in the open so that it is as clear as it possibly can be what is considered cheating and what is not. At the moment there are too many grey areas as a result of mh lack of transparency.
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 00:35   #37
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Re: r67 who will win

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So far as I am aware there is no collusion between attackers and 3:4; they just make sure they are good enough targets that they get attacked and then def. Reinitiate after landing and repeat the cycle.
Sheer numbers suggest the amount of incomings they recieve is higher than 'normal' tho. So while you can't prove colluding between defender and attacker, there sure seem to be grounds to at least deem those planets that seem to initiate roids with no intent to properly defend them 'farms.' This would not be unprecedented either. In the case that butch3r cites involving crowke there definitely was no colluding between the attackers and the defender, but it was deemed that the act of initiating roids while having uncovered incs was enough to be closed over for crowke.
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 08:11   #38
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Re: r67 who will win

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Sheer numbers suggest the amount of incomings they recieve is higher than 'normal' tho.
This advertisement thread certainly doesn't hurt.
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 11:25   #39
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Re: r67 who will win

Somebody finds a way to win in a unconventional way and people immediately cries about reporting and what not. Let's just limit every strategy there is
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 11:57   #40
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Re: r67 who will win

The problem isn't the 'unconventional strategy', it's that planets like his galmates that constantly initiate roids are normally closed for being farms (no, you don't need to collude with attackers in order to be a farm).

Initiating roids knowing they will not be paying off is in violation of the rules.
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 12:06   #41
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Re: r67 who will win

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
The problem isn't the 'unconventional strategy', it's that planets like his galmates that constantly initiate roids are normally closed for being farms (no, you don't need to collude with attackers in order to be a farm).

Initiating roids knowing they will not be paying off is in violation of the rules.
And if they think it's gonna pay off or doesn't know that it won't?
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 12:15   #42
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Re: r67 who will win

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And if they think it's gonna pay off or doesn't know that it won't?
Good trolling

As i said earlier in this thread, they know they are cheating by normal MH standards, and if they dont know it you should remeber them off the crowke incident.
Maybe there is so many closures in Ultores you have forgotten this one.


Not saying its not a funny creative way to abuse PA mechanics
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 12:16   #43
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Re: r67 who will win

It's easier to change the game mechanics than to end abuse in this game, we most likely can expect some drastic change on defense XP and/or MCs for next round, now that someone has shown a flaw in the design (REALLY?).
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 13:41   #44
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Re: r67 who will win

Defense XP should improve. Real defenses should be as rewarded as attacks. The current simple formula is the source of this abuse. It wouldnt take much to create a system where only the real defenses are rewarded, probably something as a function of the value of the planets/fleets.
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 16:03   #45
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Re: r67 who will win

What I find hilariously tragic is Norse is going to try and fence win again. They'll do what they want of course. Fleetcatches, lolwaves etc, but when you hit one of their planets, they'll do their classic emo threats.

By the way, I'm not playing.
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 16:08   #46
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Re: r67 who will win

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By the way, I'm not playing.
But your bots are
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 16:14   #47
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Re: r67 who will win

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Originally Posted by fortran View Post
Defense XP should improve. Real defenses should be as rewarded as attacks. The current simple formula is the source of this abuse. It wouldnt take much to create a system where only the real defenses are rewarded, probably something as a function of the value of the planets/fleets.
I'm not sure if defense needs to be rewarded at all, to be honest, beyond what it accomplishes: you get to hold onto your roids.
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 16:18   #48
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Re: r67 who will win

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
Sheer numbers suggest the amount of incomings they recieve is higher than 'normal' tho. So while you can't prove colluding between defender and attacker, there sure seem to be grounds to at least deem those planets that seem to initiate roids with no intent to properly defend them 'farms.' This would not be unprecedented either. In the case that butch3r cites involving crowke there definitely was no colluding between the attackers and the defender, but it was deemed that the act of initiating roids while having uncovered incs was enough to be closed over for crowke.
You forget to add the fact, that he sold the ships at base for more resources to init with.
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 16:29   #49
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Re: r67 who will win

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Good trolling

As i said earlier in this thread, they know they are cheating by normal MH standards, and if they dont know it you should remeber them off the crowke incident.
Maybe there is so many closures in Ultores you have forgotten this one.


Not saying its not a funny creative way to abuse PA mechanics
which closures are you talking about pal?
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Unread 14 Jun 2016, 16:36   #50
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Re: r67 who will win

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
What I find hilariously tragic is Norse is going to try and fence win again. They'll do what they want of course. Fleetcatches, lolwaves etc, but when you hit one of their planets, they'll do their classic emo threats.

By the way, I'm not playing.
Imho the only way to deal with Norse strategy would be to declare a #Norseday. If the other alliances agree to a one day CF and everyone launch at Norse, they won't be able to respond the way the usually do and their strategy will fail as it rely on keeping their roids.

Norse way of playing is not something an alliance can deal with alone while aiming for the win dealing with the usual threats.
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