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Unread 20 Jul 2015, 21:49   #101
Tommy
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
When I tried that in havoc I got an error message that I was trying to do too many scans at once. I could only do a cluster at a time.
Yeah, seems someone fixed it since. It worked that way last round, much to my amusement.
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Unread 20 Jul 2015, 21:49   #102
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by sdn View Post
whole of blackflag are not cheaters, its just a few individuals who runs 3-4 planets each until these planets gets closed each round.
Im sure the normal member or officer in bf doesnt know about this, its not something you would talk about.

This for sure did not impact if bf won the round or not, politics and stamina did. Now that bf is under the "lupe" im sure they will not do it again.

Its been far worse cheating in this game to make a big fuzz about it and spoil their earned victory. But yes agar3s you are totally right!
That noxious tries to defend his own alliance is ofc something you would expect.

Whats done is done, and congrats for winning bf i did not mention it before!
Let this topic be, and bounce harder back next round!
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Unread 20 Jul 2015, 23:10   #103
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Apprime or our "support" planets do not get closed. So how does that compare to BF having 10 planets closed 2 rounds in a row?
"We get away with it"

Masterful.

Your planets not getting closed isn't an issue though. The thread where your players were outed for cheating (and subsequently admitted to it, without contrition) outlined just how utterly systematic and calculated the cheating was, such that you would never get caught by multihunters.

The same cry of no definitive proof in your cheating is identical for both of you. For every time you blatantly cheat, whilst avoiding any planet closures, is the same as every time they get a planet closure and claim it's an unknown random, coincidentally launching at the same time.

We all know you're both cheating.

The only difference is that clouds had the foresight to keep quiet when you were being outed for it. You don't though.

Perhaps you could just hush up about the whole thing, the way he did. That way we can just leave your CV with sore loser and cheat. Rather than having to stick whining hypocrite in there too.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 00:32   #104
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by oil View Post
"We get away with it"

Masterful.

Your planets not getting closed isn't an issue though. The thread where your players were outed for cheating (and subsequently admitted to it, without contrition) outlined just how utterly systematic and calculated the cheating was, such that you would never get caught by multihunters.

The same cry of no definitive proof in your cheating is identical for both of you. For every time you blatantly cheat, whilst avoiding any planet closures, is the same as every time they get a planet closure and claim it's an unknown random, coincidentally launching at the same time.

We all know you're both cheating.

The only difference is that clouds had the foresight to keep quiet when you were being outed for it. You don't though.

Perhaps you could just hush up about the whole thing, the way he did. That way we can just leave your CV with sore loser and cheat. Rather than having to stick whining hypocrite in there too.
When has Ult ever cheated?
Those "support" planets have so much history in PA that you can barely take them in question in the first place. The only crying that is done is about them playing as support planets, which isnt rule breaking anyway. Sending 3 defense fleets a day all round long or 2 attack and 1 defensive is in the end the same. Clouds has also played with every support planet Ultores has. Contacted them for their fleets and used their fleets, so he knows those are real people.

Sore loser and cheat? Please come with something better. We both know I am far more respected in this community than you are.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 06:04   #105
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

Ofc Ult has cheated many times before. Not aa organizee as BF though.
Dav the cheater, Arma, _mark, CroWkE and most likely many more has been caught/closed in the past, and used to be ult
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 06:18   #106
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

Well if spiderpig isn't a multi, pigs do fly!
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 07:05   #107
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Ofc Ult has cheated many times before. Not aa organizee as BF though.
Dav the cheater, Arma, _mark, CroWkE and most likely many more has been caught/closed in the past, and used to be ult
Dav was ult?
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 07:08   #108
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

as far as i know the people in ult that have cheated have been closed at the time of the cheat. notable members being spammer and colt
but that was more than 15 rounds ago
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 07:29   #109
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Ofc Ult has cheated many times before. Not aa organizee as BF though.
Dav the cheater, Arma, _mark, CroWkE and most likely many more has been caught/closed in the past, and used to be ult
Dav hasn't been ult.

Arma has 4 rounds in ult from the early days of ult, but has been mostly vikings/bf after that.

Mark was in ult in our first two rounds, hasn't been since.

As for crowke... he sold his ships and inited roids?
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 07:30   #110
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

hahahahahahah

Oh man. Colt getting closed was hilarious.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 07:32   #111
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

i think arma and mark cheating happened while in TGV
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 07:35   #112
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Benneh
hahahahahahah

Oh man. Colt getting closed was hilarious.
I don't remember this

What happened?
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 07:40   #113
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
as far as i know the people in ult that have cheated have been closed at the time of the cheat. notable members being spammer and colt
but that was more than 15 rounds ago
My point being that all alliances has cheaters, most alliances kick/ban them if they are caught, and report them.
From many peoples opinion, cheating is/was widely accepted in BF, and the HCs seemed to if not be behind it, atleast majorly involved in it.
I didnt follow "dubious" planets this round, and i have no evidence against BF, this round, but ive heard stories from others, the escort bots being one of them
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 07:45   #114
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
i think arma and mark cheating happened while in TGV
Well when we caught them farming they wernt Ult no, but my point being that its likely they and many others were cheating while being Ult, its not like Ult or any other alliance is a cheatfree enviorment.
Having HCs accepting it, or partaking in it is a diffrent thing
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 07:46   #115
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by eksero View Post
I don't remember this

What happened?
Please.

There is no evidence Colt was the one who cheated.

Please use the nick 'Bolt' in this case, a completely different person.

Completely different.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 07:57   #116
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Please.

There is no evidence Colt was the one who cheated.

Please use the nick 'Bolt' in this case, a completely different person.

Completely different.
Oh, sorry.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 11:48   #117
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Also when I asked nox for his jgps of those planets escorting CT/norsemen he went afk so I ll have to wait and see if they escorted others. I doubt it though.
So having an active life outside of PA is now a crime too? The JGPs I have are not organised in any way (except coords naturally), so it's a rather dubious and time consuming task to go through them all, but I'll do it sometime soonish.

And Farmer-Bob: pls, stfu about evidence when all you have is hearsay, thanks.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 15:51   #118
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Zhil was Asc political chief, why him taking the credit?
I have my reasons and Zhil deserves some of the credit for the BF win. At times (it looked like) he was HCing BF and ASC. I wouldnt be surprised if that is what happened.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 15:58   #119
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
When has Ult ever cheated?
Those "support" planets have so much history in PA that you can barely take them in question in the first place. The only crying that is done is about them playing as support planets, which isnt rule breaking anyway. Sending 3 defense fleets a day all round long or 2 attack and 1 defensive is in the end the same. Clouds has also played with every support planet Ultores has. Contacted them for their fleets and used their fleets, so he knows those are real people.

Sore loser and cheat? Please come with something better. We both know I am far more respected in this community than you are.
Arguing on the internet; you must be a truly fulfilled human being.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 16:11   #120
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by RexDrax View Post
I have my reasons and Zhil deserves some of the credit for the BF win. At times (it looked like) he was HCing BF and ASC. I wouldnt be surprised if that is what happened.
I feel it a little bit discourteous to imply I was HCing both (which is incorrect). One could argue that my impact in the previous round helped set Black Flag up to win. I was very transparent when within the BlackFlag HC and am someone who will question political decisions even after they are made in order to adapt and learn.

One key component for Black Flag losing the round when I was political advisor was it's discipline, which I was more than happy to see it being sorted for last round.

Still, colour me intrigued so fire me a PM here or on IRC to discuss further.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 16:30   #121
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Arguing on the internet; you must be a truly fulfilled human being.
If memory serves me right you used to start arguments about Mikee atleast once a day for 6 rounds in a row. One might call your attempt of high horsing pathetic.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 19:11   #122
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
I feel it a little bit discourteous to imply I was HCing both (which is incorrect). One could argue that my impact in the previous round helped set Black Flag up to win. I was very transparent when within the BlackFlag HC and am someone who will question political decisions even after they are made in order to adapt and learn.

One key component for Black Flag losing the round when I was political advisor was it's discipline, which I was more than happy to see it being sorted for last round.

Still, colour me intrigued so fire me a PM here or on IRC to discuss further.
lol man, u r very very funny.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 20:07   #123
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by RexDrax View Post
I have my reasons and Zhil deserves some of the credit for the BF win. At times (it looked like) he was HCing BF and ASC. I wouldnt be surprised if that is what happened.
We are truly through the looking glass now
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 22:33   #124
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

farting LOST MY POST
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 23:11   #125
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
When has Ult ever cheated?
Those "support" planets have so much history in PA that you can barely take them in question in the first place. The only crying that is done is about them playing as support planets, which isnt rule breaking anyway. Sending 3 defense fleets a day all round long or 2 attack and 1 defensive is in the end the same. Clouds has also played with every support planet Ultores has. Contacted them for their fleets and used their fleets, so he knows those are real people.
I have no doubt that you have people willing to play bottom, just to be in the private channel of the winning team. Our species has a pretty withering history demonstrating how fundamental the psychology of boot-licking is.

Perhaps it's the gallant support of lower tags, until it's fortuitous for you to roid them. Perhaps it's the pioneering stance against blocks, until you aren't considered the strongest alliance and form your own. Or maybe it's just the barnstorming banter you bring to the forums when the rest of the community haven't correctly aligned their actions towards ultores winning forever and ever. Who knows what makes this small army of people with phone numbers, but no irc presence so hooked on the ultores community.

Perhaps apprime could shine a light on the issue! Remember them? They got caught cheating. With planets that look really similar to the ones we're talking about.
Unfortunately you lost your voice at the time, unable to forge a post putting forward your only now evident issues with people cheating. Fortunately any worries about the cheating continuing were allayed when you, er... merged with them. And promptly assured the community that everything was going to be changing. Except you didn't.

There is every reason to believe you are up to your neck in cheating, short of a level of proof that cannot be attained. BF are in the same position. It appears that you do not have the ear of the entirety of Asc, and kudos to them for not turning into yet another prostrate piss stain extension of your clique. That is the summary of the round.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wouter
Sore loser and cheat? Please come with something better. We both know I am far more respected in this community than you are.
Well respect is a pretty ambiguous term. You're probably known by nearly the entire community to some extent, and are mostly likely considered by most to be one of the most capable players. I, on the other hand have never looked at the stats for longer than 30 seconds, and the most effort I've put into forming any kind of relationship with someone in the community would most likely be a drunken pm talking about dicks in capital letters.

If what you mean by respect is that you think most people wouldn't consider your performance in this thread to be that of a hypocritical, sore loser.. Then I guess we'll just wait for some neutral testimonial (sock puppets) to pop up and explain why you're actually just a great guy caught cutting onions at the wrong time.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 23:23   #126
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil View Post
I have no doubt that you have people willing to play bottom, just to be in the private channel of the winning team. Our species has a pretty withering history demonstrating how fundamental the psychology of boot-licking is.

Perhaps it's the gallant support of lower tags, until it's fortuitous for you to roid them. Perhaps it's the pioneering stance against blocks, until you aren't considered the strongest alliance and form your own. Or maybe it's just the barnstorming banter you bring to the forums when the rest of the community haven't correctly aligned their actions towards ultores winning forever and ever. Who knows what makes this small army of people with phone numbers, but no irc presence so hooked on the ultores community.

Perhaps apprime could shine a light on the issue! Remember them? They got caught cheating. With planets that look really similar to the ones we're talking about.
Unfortunately you lost your voice at the time, unable to forge a post putting forward your only now evident issues with people cheating. Fortunately any worries about the cheating continuing were allayed when you, er... merged with them. And promptly assured the community that everything was going to be changing. Except you didn't.

There is every reason to believe you are up to your neck in cheating, short of a level of proof that cannot be attained. BF are in the same position. It appears that you do not have the ear of the entirety of Asc, and kudos to them for not turning into yet another prostrate piss stain extension of your clique. That is the summary of the round.





Well respect is a pretty ambiguous term. You're probably known by nearly the entire community to some extent, and are mostly likely considered by most to be one of the most capable players. I, on the other hand have never looked at the stats for longer than 30 seconds, and the most effort I've put into forming any kind of relationship with someone in the community would most likely be a drunken pm talking about dicks in capital letters.

If what you mean by respect is that you think most people wouldn't consider your performance in this thread to be that of a hypocritical, sore loser.. Then I guess we'll just wait for some neutral testimonial (sock puppets) to pop up and explain why you're actually just a great guy caught cutting onions at the wrong time.
Those people played serious in Ultores and when they no longer had the time to play active like they thought Ultores needed, they decided to put their effort into defending. Everyone one of them was once a planet playing for a planet rank and did so in Ultores, this is also why they decide to still put effort into Ult. Without them Ult would be far weaker and we all know it, one might call them the structure of Ult itself.

Also I was stating what happened, by now BF HC(NoX) have been checking the planets and seen they mostly attacked with BF. He also names them bot planets, so all the "no didnt happen" posts can be put in the garbage where they belong. Bringing something to light isnt crying either, its giving people the bigger picture and it has little to do with anything Ult did. The fact that those planets got reported and closed just shows I was right to bring it up. Your counters about Apprime and Ult have been little more than speculations.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 23:34   #127
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

Black Flag cheated or Black Flag didn't cheat. Who cares. It's not like it's going to impact politics in future rounds. You're just wasting your time and energy debating in a renowned toxic environment (Alliance Discussions).

Why do you feel the need to defend yourself on the internet? Stop feeding the trolls.
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 23:42   #128
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Also I was stating what happened, by now BF HC(NoX) have been checking the planets and seen they mostly attacked with BF. He also names them bot planets, so all the "no didnt happen" posts can be put in the garbage where they belong.
Sorry, Nox was using pure speculation in his labelling those planets as bots. The planets were similarly closed for speculative reasons and as such we can safely reject the ruling of Multihunter X.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
Bringing something to light isnt crying either, its giving people the bigger picture and it has little to do with anything Ult did. The fact that those planets got reported and closed just shows I was right to bring it up. Your counters about Apprime and Ult have been little more than speculations.
I'm not saying you're crying for complaining about cheating. I did it first, remember. I'm saying you're crying because you've only decided to hypocritically start complaining about cheating because you lost the round.



Also, can you actually respond to this post - http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...3&postcount=98

What conversations did you have with app regarding their cheating when they joined your alliance?
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 23:46   #129
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Black Flag cheated or Black Flag didn't cheat. Who cares. It's not like it's going to impact politics in future rounds. You're just wasting your time and energy debating in a renowned toxic environment (Alliance Discussions).

Why do you feel the need to defend yourself on the internet? Stop feeding the trolls.
I'm fairly certain you have an exactly 50/50 split in your post history between defending your actions on AD, followed by appeals to reason for people to stop posting on AD defending their actions (because it feeds the ether troll that presumably compels you further into the vortex)
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Unread 21 Jul 2015, 23:59   #130
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

When it is convenient, the universe punishes the cheaters, either no one found a clear evidence or no one really cared. And even if BF cheated, it had zero impact in alliance ranking. What's your problem then oil?
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 00:00   #131
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Black Flag cheated or Black Flag didn't cheat. Who cares. It's not like it's going to impact politics in future rounds. You're just wasting your time and energy debating in a renowned toxic environment (Alliance Discussions).

Why do you feel the need to defend yourself on the internet? Stop feeding the trolls.
If this is such a toxic environment, why do you feel the need to respond as well? In the past even rumours (read: situations where no planets were actually closed) have had impact on politics throughout the rounds, tho it has mostly been minor and on individual bases. There is a reason people, like oil, rarely join alliances on 'the dark side' of the spectrum, yet rarely speak out on similar issues in 'fairness' when it comes to 'the bright side'.

Why would it be OK for you/Noxious/oil to post reactions that rarely rise above the level of personal attacks yet when others raise 'fair' points it is "feeding the trolls".

Do not onto others...
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 00:13   #132
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by fortran View Post
When it is convenient, the universe punishes the cheaters, either no one found a clear evidence or no one really cared. And even if BF cheated, it had zero impact in alliance ranking. What's your problem then oil?
Well cheating does have an impact on rankings in general, whether or not the rankings would've been the same without it. I'm currently posting about how lol it is hearing ult complain about cheating. I'm a bit confused by what you're saying/asking tbh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by influence
There is a reason people, like oil, rarely join alliances on 'the dark side' of the spectrum, yet rarely speak out on similar issues in 'fairness' on 'the bright side'.
I'm not sure what you mean by this :<

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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 08:04   #133
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by oil View Post
Sorry, Nox was using pure speculation in his labelling those planets as bots. The planets were similarly closed for speculative reasons and as such we can safely reject the ruling of Multihunter X.



I'm not saying you're crying for complaining about cheating. I did it first, remember. I'm saying you're crying because you've only decided to hypocritically start complaining about cheating because you lost the round.



Also, can you actually respond to this post - http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...3&postcount=98

What conversations did you have with app regarding their cheating when they joined your alliance?
It doesnt really matter what conversation happened, cause there never was a wide scale cheating in Ult nor have their been any accusations of it. The only thing people complain about is our "defwhores" like we call them. But those people have an history in PA that goes so far back most allies know them by nickname. The only thing that gets reported is cause they just defend. Thats no different than just attacking though. So trying to create something which isnt there in the first place..
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 10:26   #134
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

Spiderpig, Spiderpig
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 12:59   #135
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

Some of those "botplanets" (just to give them a common name) as I've been calling them in the conversations we've had with PT lately are playing havoc now apparently with no relation to BF what so ever. They also attacked outside of our raids and sometimes alongside our raids but never with any one member or BG. With the somewhat limited evidence I've been able to gather from the JGPs I've had access to around those times they attacked ULT, I'm going to have to declare them as SOMEONEs possible cousins that didn't like ULT. The evidence I've found doesn't inconclusively put them as BF cousins, nor anyone else (other than the block fighting ULT maybe). Now, if anyone has more possible evidence they would like to share with me for further investigations, I'd like to take a look at them. Otherwise, I'm ending my part of this discussion here.
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 13:59   #136
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

Noxious, I think you are putting too much effort. But if you are willing to do it. I always wondered if it is really Migi behind the scans. First, I am not complaining about scanbot usage, it is only that at least when I ended once in his gal he was a bit more talkative in WA, even playing as scanner. Is he really logging on that planet? Just curious. I would ask him myself but didn't save his number.

cheers
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 15:18   #137
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Otherwise, I'm ending my part of this discussion here.
Thanks for your efforts.
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 16:10   #138
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
I feel it a little bit discourteous to imply I was HCing both (which is incorrect). One could argue that my impact in the previous round helped set Black Flag up to win. I was very transparent when within the BlackFlag HC and am someone who will question political decisions even after they are made in order to adapt and learn.

One key component for Black Flag losing the round when I was political advisor was it's discipline, which I was more than happy to see it being sorted for last round.

Still, colour me intrigued so fire me a PM here or on IRC to discuss further.
Its havoc time, taking a much needed break from PA to recharge for next round. I think I was an IRC only a half dozen times this round so unlikely I would run into you there once round starts and in any case round is over nothing to discuss.

I know what I saw and the info I was provided and it pretty much led me to the conclusion that you provided more than normal help to provide BF with the ally win. Notice I didnt say congrats to CT for helping BF get the ally win since they did what "normally" happens in PA politics. In your case I would say you went above and beyond the "normal" PA politics and it looked like you were HCing both BF and ASC with ASC being the support tag for BF. Not saying that BF didnt play the round well, but quite a bit of credit for BFs win does go to you.
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 16:35   #139
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by RexDrax View Post
Its havoc time, taking a much needed break from PA to recharge for next round. I think I was an IRC only a half dozen times this round so unlikely I would run into you there once round starts and in any case round is over nothing to discuss.

I know what I saw and the info I was provided and it pretty much led me to the conclusion that you provided more than normal help to provide BF with the ally win. Notice I didnt say congrats to CT for helping BF get the ally win since they did what "normally" happens in PA politics. In your case I would say you went above and beyond the "normal" PA politics and it looked like you were HCing both BF and ASC with ASC being the support tag for BF. Not saying that BF didnt play the round well, but quite a bit of credit for BFs win does go to you.
I think it's unfair to discredit CT. Someone observing from an outside perspective, you don't have all the facts. Sure I will agree that Zhil helped Black Flag's cause, but I wouldn't say that he was the fundamental cause to our victory. CT played a big part in our win; they were loyal allies and for once we were able to work together, and with trust.

Even Rainbows deserves credit; while they were assisting us periodically, they held strong stamina and didn't cave in when the Ultores block threatened them with incoming. You also have to realise that Ultores was not the only threat to us securing the round win. Both Ascendancy and CT were close runners and we had to adapt our tactics a little once Ultores (at the time) were out of the race.

I won't deny that Zhil favored a Black Flag win, and his actions participated to a favourable Black Flag outcome, but I personally think that both CT and Rainbows played a big role in our victory.
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 19:32   #140
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
I think it's unfair to discredit CT. Someone observing from an outside perspective, you don't have all the facts. Sure I will agree that Zhil helped Black Flag's cause, but I wouldn't say that he was the fundamental cause to our victory. CT played a big part in our win; they were loyal allies and for once we were able to work together, and with trust.

Even Rainbows deserves credit; while they were assisting us periodically, they held strong stamina and didn't cave in when the Ultores block threatened them with incoming. You also have to realise that Ultores was not the only threat to us securing the round win. Both Ascendancy and CT were close runners and we had to adapt our tactics a little once Ultores (at the time) were out of the race.

I won't deny that Zhil favored a Black Flag win, and his actions participated to a favourable Black Flag outcome, but I personally think that both CT and Rainbows played a big role in our victory.
good thing this is just your point of view. other HCs played for they alliances. zhill dont. was confotable play with asc peons since they said hundred times "we dont want to win" plus its going to.disband after this round. sooo who cares. thats why zhill is image runs over his own goal to make ultores fall down. who cares about bf. its just the new one trying to take them down.
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 20:07   #141
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

Ascedancy is playing r63.
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 20:27   #142
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

zhill still doing politics for u guys? =)

edit: no need for answer, just being ironic!
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Unread 22 Jul 2015, 21:01   #143
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

The whole idea that Ascendancy favours any alliance is nonsense. Zhil may like Black Flag, but he also has the good sense to rein it in, and work for the benefit of Ascendancy. Ultores don't like him, which is why mz/rasputin dealt with ultores. As someone who just walked into this round, I quite like Black Flag and Ultores - they're both pretty solid, committed to trying to win, and didn't cause us nearly as much as bullshit as other alliances when we talked to them. I'd add p3nguins as while they seem to not like us, they were generally pretty clear about it, but still napped us for mutual benefit.

We first played as an alliance messing around and then decided to get value as we had the crap kicked out of us by every man and his dog. After that we had a punt (and that's all it was) on the win, because when you have a chance (even if it's less than 20%), you have a go. It failed, but it wasn't unexpected either, because we weren't committed enough and our way of playing was pretty ambitious. The fact that Ult got taken out the game was just a byproduct of what we were trying to do. If people in Ultores are stupid enough to take it personally, then that is their problem.

The only thing I'd really criticise is alliances pretty much playing with the sole reason to stop X or Y, or deciding that they want to play a part in the outcome, even if it doesn't benefit them. Utterly self-defeating, and just lets other alliances get away with bad behaviour without consequences.
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Unread 23 Jul 2015, 02:06   #144
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
The whole idea that Ascendancy favours any alliance is nonsense. Zhil may like Black Flag, but he also has the good sense to rein it in, and work for the benefit of Ascendancy. Ultores don't like him, which is why mz/rasputin dealt with ultores. As someone who just walked into this round, I quite like Black Flag and Ultores - they're both pretty solid, committed to trying to win, and didn't cause us nearly as much as bullshit as other alliances when we talked to them. I'd add p3nguins as while they seem to not like us, they were generally pretty clear about it, but still napped us for mutual benefit.

We first played as an alliance messing around and then decided to get value as we had the crap kicked out of us by every man and his dog. After that we had a punt (and that's all it was) on the win, because when you have a chance (even if it's less than 20%), you have a go. It failed, but it wasn't unexpected either, because we weren't committed enough and our way of playing was pretty ambitious. The fact that Ult got taken out the game was just a byproduct of what we were trying to do. If people in Ultores are stupid enough to take it personally, then that is their problem.

The only thing I'd really criticise is alliances pretty much playing with the sole reason to stop X or Y, or deciding that they want to play a part in the outcome, even if it doesn't benefit them. Utterly self-defeating, and just lets other alliances get away with bad behaviour without consequences.
this game just dont allow anyone taking things personally, there is no time for it. very limited memberbase. this little issues between players, bgs or alliances dies very soon, other way the ones envolved just lose the round.
moving one, as i said before,. im sure u guys did enjoy the round. good to know u are all playing next one.
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Unread 23 Jul 2015, 14:54   #145
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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good thing this is just your point of view. other HCs played for they alliances. zhill dont. was confotable play with asc peons since they said hundred times "we dont want to win" plus its going to.disband after this round. sooo who cares. thats why zhill is image runs over his own goal to make ultores fall down. who cares about bf. its just the new one trying to take them down.
My "goal" in this game is not to make Ultores fall down. It's not like I am the antichrist for Ultores. What people fail to consistently realise is that in order to win, you have to deal with Ultores and that is simply the only reason I come into conflict with Ultores. It's nothing personal, it's a simple fact that they are the alliance to make sure you beat if you want to stand a chance of winning.

Was I more favoured towards a Black Flag win than other alliances? Yes, I felt that it had performed well and deserved a win. Yet to say I threw Asc away is incorrect in the extreme, even with my decision (which the Asc membership overturned) to not hit BlackFlag with a gun held to my head. Lokken said 20%, though personally I rated the chances as far lower than that and thought a backstab was dishonourable and that it would just bring more incoming from more disciplined foes.

If I didn't care about Asc members then I wouldn't have spent one minute of my time doing political deals throughout the first half of the round designed in keeping Asc members safe and out the war with Ultores.

Additionally for those who don't know how politics worked while I did them - I discussed all deals first with a select group of Ascendancy members - including Lokken, mz, migz, rasputin, Lokken and Benneh. So it's not like I held complete control over Asc and was an evil dictator or something that used Asc for my own nefarious schemes.
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Unread 23 Jul 2015, 15:22   #146
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

The only thing Zhil ever does when he talks to me is threaten me with bodily harm if I don't go along with his plans.

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Unread 23 Jul 2015, 15:50   #147
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
My "goal" in this game is not to make Ultores fall down. It's not like I am the antichrist for Ultores. What people fail to consistently realise is that in order to win, you have to deal with Ultores and that is simply the only reason I come into conflict with Ultores. It's nothing personal, it's a simple fact that they are the alliance to make sure you beat if you want to stand a chance of winning.

Was I more favoured towards a Black Flag win than other alliances? Yes, I felt that it had performed well and deserved a win. Yet to say I threw Asc away is incorrect in the extreme, even with my decision (which the Asc membership overturned) to not hit BlackFlag with a gun held to my head. Lokken said 20%, though personally I rated the chances as far lower than that and thought a backstab was dishonourable and that it would just bring more incoming from more disciplined foes.

If I didn't care about Asc members then I wouldn't have spent one minute of my time doing political deals throughout the first half of the round designed in keeping Asc members safe and out the war with Ultores.

Additionally for those who don't know how politics worked while I did them - I discussed all deals first with a select group of Ascendancy members - including Lokken, mz, migz, rasputin, Lokken and Benneh. So it's not like I held complete control over Asc and was an evil dictator or something that used Asc for my own nefarious schemes.
u always makes your answers looks damn good. i congrat u!
as u can see, im not the only one who believe u helped BF more then u needed to, despite u talked with God, holy spirit or whatever. and there is any problem helping them? not at all, as i said, is good for the game balance other alliance win.
was just hard to see friends coming to hit us, with no reason at all, since u guys would never win hitting ult. thats kinda obvious, and if the goal wasnt the win, then is even harder to understand.
anyway, looks like asc was named more times in bf win post then own bf.
=)
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Unread 23 Jul 2015, 15:53   #148
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
I think it's unfair to discredit CT. Someone observing from an outside perspective, you don't have all the facts. Sure I will agree that Zhil helped Black Flag's cause, but I wouldn't say that he was the fundamental cause to our victory. CT played a big part in our win; they were loyal allies and for once we were able to work together, and with trust.

Even Rainbows deserves credit; while they were assisting us periodically, they held strong stamina and didn't cave in when the Ultores block threatened them with incoming. You also have to realise that Ultores was not the only threat to us securing the round win. Both Ascendancy and CT were close runners and we had to adapt our tactics a little once Ultores (at the time) were out of the race.

I won't deny that Zhil favored a Black Flag win, and his actions participated to a favourable Black Flag outcome, but I personally think that both CT and Rainbows played a big role in our victory.
I know what I saw and the info I had available. True, I didnt have all the facts but enough to draw some conclusions. You can say all you want, what I saw and how Asc/Zhil interacted with other alliances and the things he said and did leads me to believe that he was going above and beyond what "normally" happens when alliances make an agreement and was more than actively helping to get BF the win. It looked to me that he was HCing BF and Asc at the same time.

I didnt say he was the fundamental, but I will say that if he wasnt there and doing what he was doing the chance of BF winning would have been less. Would BF still have won the round, who knows, but his politics definitely favored BF at the detriment of other alliances including Asc.

Oh yes Ult wasnt the only threat and I know how some of the other threats were neutralized. Hence why I am saying that Zhil went above and beyond the "normal" political arrangement between alliances and provided the gold platter where BF's win could be found.

You can say all you want and I am sure there are others to back up your view point same way that I am not the only one that thinks the same way I do. I didnt feel right just stating "Congrats BF on the win" when Zhil had quite the big involvement in providing the opportunity for BF to win the round.
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Unread 23 Jul 2015, 16:30   #149
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

you give zhil far more credit than he deserves.
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Unread 23 Jul 2015, 16:37   #150
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Re: Congratulation Black-Flag

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Originally Posted by [DDK]gm View Post
you give zhil far more credit than he deserves.
or u give less than he deserves...
who knows =)
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