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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 13:57   #51
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Re: R61 Changes

not sure they'd be found in planetarion suggestions forums, surprising that these are the ones getting picked and not the ones people have asked for with backing
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 14:50   #52
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Re: R61 Changes

I have this theory that they decide these ridiculous changes that no one has suggested so that they can forget about PA quicker
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 15:42   #53
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
Also, I keep wondering who are these players that suggest these things... Multi-tick attacks "has been suggested by the players" spoke with several "proper" players and no one knows anyone who has suggested it in the last few years, same with the galfund change "has been suggested by the players" and no one is stepping up to be one of those suggesting players... from what I hear, neither of these came from #alliances (or at least from the actually active players in there).

Can someone pls step up as the suggesting player for these?
Ive suggested multi battle ticks, perhaps not in a single thread, but surely im all for trying this change.
As we have allready put clear is that it will lead to less night time attacking, less mass wavings, and less incs.
The crashing will stay the same, the ship killing will perhaps increase.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 15:53   #54
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Re: R61 Changes

absolute rubbish!!
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 16:03   #55
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Ive suggested multi battle ticks, perhaps not in a single thread, but surely im all for trying this change.
As we have allready put clear is that it will lead to less night time attacking, less mass wavings, and less incs.
The crashing will stay the same, the ship killing will perhaps increase.
Who has made that clear exactly? you in your single reply to me? with which i absolutely do not agree, i just can't be bothered to repeat myself endlessly.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 16:26   #56
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
As we have allready put clear is that it will lead to less night time attacking, less mass wavings, and less incs.
Have we?
This depends on how BCs decide to set up attacks in response to the change.
Less night time incs only if alliances decide that each wave now takes up 2 ticks/3ticks/however long an attack lasts. Thus spreading out attacks.
OTOH alliances may decide that if all incs are the same ship class - alliance strategies are heading this way anyway - then its OK to allow waves to overlap. This would mean no change to the current levels of night incs.
A third option would be to start attacks earlier rather than let them go on until mid morning, arguably even worse than what we have now.
I dont see how it reduces mass waving at all, indeed it potentially makes it worse since its easier to reinforce an attack that looks like it might be going to fail.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 16:27   #57
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
Who has made that clear exactly? you in your single reply to me? with which i absolutely do not agree, i just can't be bothered to repeat myself endlessly.
Weedeejem said he cannot keep up attacking every day with BS if he needs to wake up to launch, and im sure more people are ik his situation.
And i think my points are all valid
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 16:30   #58
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Re: R61 Changes

You have a silly habit of assuming and pretending that all of your opinions are held by the majority of the community.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 16:40   #59
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
You have a silly habit of assuming and pretending that all of your opinions are held by the majority of the community.
No, im assuming half of the community dont got a clue what they are saying
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 18:40   #60
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Re: R61 Changes

Or maybe, just maybe, it could be you - and the MH Team
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 18:44   #61
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
No, im assuming half of the community dont got a clue what they are saying
Those are not mutually exclusive.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 19:34   #62
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Re: R61 Changes

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No, im assuming half of the community dont got a clue what they are saying
Even if that was true that means the other half do have a clue yeah? And still they don't agree with you and think your an asshat.

You and a few stragglers may think it's a good idea but you and your chums do not equate to half the community.

Now I personally haven't played with multi tick attacks, it sounds on paper like a complete horror show. From what I'm getting this means that 3 Xans could in theory 3 fleet me for 18/27 hrs (depending on 2 or 3 tick decision) and all have only launched once and gone offline? Leaving me with a whole day of dcing, is that right??

I am drawn to conclude that this idea was never meant to improve gameplay it's merely the final nail banged in the coffin so there is a big enough player drop off to close the game for good
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 19:38   #63
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Those are not mutually exclusive.
There was parts of the community slaughtering this rounds stats, telling you what would happend.
Yet there are people who still keeps presisting even after this round has well settled, that something else than stats being awfull being the truth.
So often, most of the community dont got a clue how small changes will alter the game on a larger extent.

Is this multi battle tick change premature if its implented next round? Sure, i can agree to that.
Will it kill of the game? Certainly unlikely.
Will it make the game more time consuming? Perhaps some things will be more time consuming, others not.

Having played both P-L-A-N-E-T-I-A, and PA-PaX-PaN, i can say that from my experince, how PA is today is pretty boring, and your whole round can be "ruined" in a matter of a night, a tick, or a day.
MultiTickBattles will certainly make sure that this can be changed, taking stats tuneing to another level, and make alliance wars more interesting.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 19:44   #64
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
your whole round can be "ruined" in a matter of a night, a tick, or a day.
MultiTickBattles will certainly make sure that this can be changed, taking stats tuneing to another level, and make alliance wars more interesting.
This could be done without multi tick combat too so your point is?
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 19:48   #65
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Re: R61 Changes

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This could be done without multi tick combat too so your point is?
Presumably that the reduced lethality of one tick of combat gives you some time to come to your senses before you lose the rest of your fleet the next tick.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 19:54   #66
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
This could be done without multi tick combat too so your point is?
You certainly forgot, or decided not to read all the "pros" i was making before this post.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 20:14   #67
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
Presumably that the reduced lethality of one tick of combat gives you some time to come to your senses before you lose the rest of your fleet the next tick.
My point being that being FCed, roided from 1000 roids down to 200, is certainly easier with single tick combat.

Over 4 hours that your not awake during night time, it will bring you from 1000 roids to 300, with 2 hours battle tick 15% cap rate it will bring you down to around 500 roids over the same period of time you are sleeping.

People keep saying that to do well in this game, you are dependant at waking up each night, or being awake the whole night more often than you are sleeping through the night. Will this help on this matter? yes, certainly.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 20:23   #68
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Re: R61 Changes

Butcher, neither lethality nor cap is dependent upon multi tick combat. So still I don't see what your point is. If you want to fix those it can be done just as effectively in single tick combat.

Did not Shhhh a couple of rounds ago want to introduce a much less lethal set of stats which had massive armor? The community seemed to hate the idea.

I will however accept that the change to multi tick combat provides an impetus to make these changes. It is just unfortunate that there is little evidence these are changes the community wants.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 20:31   #69
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
Butcher, neither lethality nor cap is dependent upon multi tick combat. So still I don't see what your point is. If you want to fix those it can be done just as effectively in single tick combat.

Did not Shhhh a couple of rounds ago want to introduce a much less lethal set of stats which had massive armor? The community seemed to hate the idea.

I will however accept that the change to multi tick combat provides an impetus to make these changes. It is just unfortunate that there is little evidence these are changes the community wants.

I think the cap rate is fine atm.
And the stats set i will make for the possibole upcomming change of combat ticks will perhaps have more same class targetting ships, and more ships that fire at the same init.
Massive armored stats in current PA makes roidswapping more possibole, and im pretty sure people feared that it would become a round like last round, where people sometimes didnt even check their targets for def due to the nature of XP.
Some parts of the community wanted these stats set, Kaiba being one, so what the community wants is pretty split in opinions.
Even though the community dont like the idea of multicombatticks, they might want the benefits that multibattleticks can/will bring to PA.
Obviously there are pros and cons.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 20:31   #70
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Re: R61 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
There was parts of the community slaughtering this rounds stats, telling you what would happend.
Yet there are people who still keeps presisting even after this round has well settled, that something else than stats being awfull being the truth.
So often, most of the community dont got a clue how small changes will alter the game on a larger extent.

Is this multi battle tick change premature if its implented next round? Sure, i can agree to that.
Will it kill of the game? Certainly unlikely.
Will it make the game more time consuming? Perhaps some things will be more time consuming, others not.

Having played both P-L-A-N-E-T-I-A, and PA-PaX-PaN, i can say that from my experince, how PA is today is pretty boring, and your whole round can be "ruined" in a matter of a night, a tick, or a day.
MultiTickBattles will certainly make sure that this can be changed, taking stats tuneing to another level, and make alliance wars more interesting.
1) I wasn't arguing with you about whether multi-tick battles is good or bad.
2) "But I really, really, really think so" is not a refutal.
3) "Some people are dumb" is irrelevant.
4) "But I am not one of those people" is the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 20:35   #71
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Re: R61 Changes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
1) I wasn't arguing with you about whether multi-tick battles is good or bad.
2) "But I really, really, really think so" is not a refutal.
3) "Some people are dumb" is irrelevant.
4) "But I am not one of those people" is the Dunning-Kruger effect in action.
#3 I did not say people are dumb, they just either dont understand the dynamics of alliances/politics, or they cant seem to see what small things might do to the bigger picture. This round, and this round stats as an example.
#4 Maybe i will be proven wrong in my theories multitickbattle, time will tell.
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 21:16   #72
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Re: R61 Changes

i dont get all the fuzz about this multi tick combat - if its prooven to be fail it can be removed after 7 weeks...

lets assume you lower cap rate to 12.5% each wave with allowing 2 tick attacks and 4 ticks defence:

now lets assume an alliance is raiding your galaxy - you get exact the same amount of incs like now - just you have it spread over 2 ticks instead of 1 , while the defence i actually beeing able to fly there for 4 ticks
so thats 1) an additional tick of finding defence for wave2 of your incs and 2) also it enables all defenders deffing your 1st wave to defend your 4th in addition
now if we think about yourself beeing hit by 1 class over 6 ticks (instead of 3) its actually only 2times now you have to arrange yourself defence, once for the first 4 ticks and a second time for the ticks after
i dunno, but i think thats making defending a lot easier ( at least in this hit by the same class scenario)

and for not recieving any defence you end loosing 6 waves with 12.5% roidloss - instead of 3 waves with 25% roidloss

also at the same time a pod fake will only be able to roid you the first tick of a battle (if your active enough to set your homefleet to fight for the second tick)

i agree that it will make PA more random, less predictable, less calcable (did the xan send real?, half?) and it will probably require some more effort calcing your attack (10mins instead of 2mins!?)
maybe we will see more unexpected battles, more spectacular battlereports and generally have a few mins more of victory compared to now

imo its worth a shot
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Unread 25 Feb 2015, 21:44   #73
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Re: R61 Changes

I dont think defence should be made out to be 4 ticks
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 03:32   #74
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
i dont get all the fuzz about this multi tick combat - if its prooven to be fail it can be removed after 7 weeks...
Oh, yes let's spend 3 rounds developing something just to bin it after a round, just because we were too stubborn to ask for input prior to the development. I know this has already been developed now, but imho, there were more pressing issues that needed attention. Issues that were actually properly supported by a (vocal) majority of the universe. Not only that but from reading between the lines on what appoco said earlier I am going out on a limb here and say that it will not be properly implemented on some fairly crucial parts like the alliance def page, the (badly implemented as it was) attack page and the bcalc for instance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
lets assume you lower cap rate to 12.5% each wave with allowing 2 tick attacks and 4 ticks defence:

now lets assume an alliance is raiding your galaxy - you get exact the same amount of incs like now - just you have it spread over 2 ticks instead of 1 , while the defence i actually beeing able to fly there for 4 ticks
so thats 1) an additional tick of finding defence for wave2 of your incs and 2) also it enables all defenders deffing your 1st wave to defend your 4th in addition
now if we think about yourself beeing hit by 1 class over 6 ticks (instead of 3) its actually only 2times now you have to arrange yourself defence, once for the first 4 ticks and a second time for the ticks after
i dunno, but i think thats making defending a lot easier ( at least in this hit by the same class scenario)
If you want to make defending easier, there are easier, less development-time consuming ways. Think about defensive stats etc. But as defence will become easier, and attacks less effective, the incs you'll get will likely be larger, or at least you'll require more incs to even start losing roids. That means more gangbanging is needed to balance out the big/good and the small allies, and it becomes more and more about who you know, and who you manage to group with. I believe that all of the last 20 rounds (the amount of rounds we have been playing with approximately the same amount of players) have proven that this is not something that was wanted by the community. Just take the much requested change to the exiling system for instance.

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
and for not recieving any defence you end loosing 6 waves with 12.5% roidloss - instead of 3 waves with 25% roidloss

also at the same time a pod fake will only be able to roid you the first tick of a battle (if your active enough to set your homefleet to fight for the second tick)
What is with this complete aversion against losing roids? losing roids does not have to be the end of your game. I've lost plenty over the rounds and even when i did i still managed to end up at decent ranks. I have a much bigger aversion againt not being able to get roids, especially when you can't get them from your direct competitor.

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
i agree that it will make PA more random, less predictable, less calcable (did the xan send real?, half?) and it will probably require some more effort calcing your attack (10mins instead of 2mins!?)
maybe we will see more unexpected battles, more spectacular battlereports and generally have a few mins more of victory compared to now
If you want a random game, go play a game that involves a dice, not a skill game like chess or PA. There is a reason we got rid of 'chance based asteroid scanning'. As PA is a skill-game, things being calcable is one of the most important aspects of the game, changing this would mean a complete change to game mechanics, so while we are at it we might as well change the battleengine into throwing a virtual dice.

You won't see more unexpected battles, nor will they be more spectacular, as the intrinsic game-mechanics of never losing more than roidgain/salvage/xp can cover doesn't change through the implementation of multi-tick battles. If you want more battles, there should be a system that rewards actually fighting battles, that is the only encouragement that people need to fight more battles. If you end up seeing more battles in this system, it will be at the hands of an increased lack of skill or decreased general activity, but not because of any benefits that multi-tick battles provide.

As far as the increased requirement of effort for calcing attacks (and defence), I am personally not willing to commit to that, for the simple reason that this game already requires a fair bit more effort than i am able/willing to give at the times the game requires it. It's only acceptable for me to increase my efforts if it comes with an increase of return, but alas, multi-tick battles mean my efforts will likely see a decrease of returns. as
a) Faking will be less effective, as every decent player can cover it the 2nd and 3rd tick, especially with the big gaps in ship costs we have seen in recent stats.
b) An increase of available time to send def means general chances of landing for the same amount of roids is lower.
c) As of yet, there is no change announced to how XP gains from attacks are handled, which likely means that the netprofit you get landing 2 ticks of 15% (total 28%) cap will be lower compared to the 1 tick of 25% you get now.

anyhow, that's my pennies in the bank again.
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 06:17   #75
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Re: R61 Changes

Didn't this game have multi-tick combat for like, centuries?
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 07:17   #76
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Massive armored stats in current PA makes roidswapping more possibole, and im pretty sure people feared that it would become a round like last round, where people sometimes didnt even check their targets for def due to the nature of XP.
Some parts of the community wanted these stats set, Kaiba being one, so what the community wants is pretty split in opinions.
Even though the community dont like the idea of multicombatticks, they might want the benefits that multibattleticks can/will bring to PA.
Obviously there are pros and cons.
Actually the theory was that massive armor made the shipstats more defensive, since you couldn't kill your target in 1 tick, so you had to take losses when you landed. ( not my opinion, but thats what people posting thought)
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 07:36   #77
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Re: R61 Changes

how about trying 1 tick attack 2 tick def for a round instead?
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 07:58   #78
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
Actually the theory was that massive armor made the shipstats more defensive, since you couldn't kill your target in 1 tick, so you had to take losses when you landed. ( not my opinion, but thats what people posting thought)
imho, having shipstats with low effs (high A/C low D/C) would be much the same like a 'normal' round, with a bit less importance for init. On one hand it's harder to kill enough to make your target run, on the other hand you would lose less for your cap so it would have a quicker return on investment. I think you would see a small increase in number of battles where there is actual fighting going on with such stats, but imho it would not result in the grand scheme of things.

If you give any set a 20% cut in eff, it might make offensive stats a little less offensive, as they generally rely on having effective low-init ships (or a severe lack of ally-eta defensive ships), and make defensive stats little less defensive as you could land relatively small losses to gain the same amount of roids/xp. Ofc, a lot still relies on the nature of the stats themselfs.
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 08:09   #79
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by Buddah View Post
how about trying 1 tick attack 2 tick def for a round instead?
That's something i would be less opposed to, provided stats were less defensive than they are this round, and let's face it... they aren't even THAT defensive this round, had it not been for a select few overeffective low-init ships (war frig, broadssword, rogue, and to some extent the combination of wyvern and guardian).
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 08:24   #80
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Re: R61 Changes

What is really bugging me is that PA team have invested 3 rounds of development into an idea that 'no-one' has asked for yet have seemingly put 0 seconds of thought into any of the top 5 suggestions/requests on PS. The amount of ppl who have commented on late starters for example and yet nothing from PA team about, then they pull this shite from nowhere. Why????
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 08:28   #81
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
You won't see more unexpected battles, nor will they be more spectacular, as the intrinsic game-mechanics of never losing more than roidgain/salvage/xp can cover doesn't change through the implementation of multi-tick battles.
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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
As far as the increased requirement of effort for calcing attacks (and defence), I am personally not willing to commit to that, for the simple reason that this game already requires a fair bit more effort than i am able/willing to give at the times the game requires it.
You seem to have answered why there will be more unexpected battles yourself. If people are less able to calc, and there is more uncertainty, then there will be more mistakes and unexpected battles. This will be increased by people forgetting they had their fleets on two tick attack or three tick defend rather than 1 tick they thought and not checking later ticks. I do however agree that it wont make much difference to the number of times a player makes an active decision to fight a battle he knows there will be shiploss in.

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
If you want more battles, there should be a system that rewards actually fighting battles, that is the only encouragement that people need to fight more battles. If you end up seeing more battles in this system, it will be at the hands of an increased lack of skill or decreased general activity, but not because of any benefits that multi-tick battles provide.
Agreed. If this is the aim then the xp formula should give xp for killing and emping ships not just the same as for a clean land. Alternatively go to the system mz has been proposing that decouples score and value completely.
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 12:32   #82
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
You seem to have answered why there will be more unexpected battles yourself. If people are less able to calc, and there is more uncertainty, then there will be more mistakes and unexpected battles. This will be increased by people forgetting they had their fleets on two tick attack or three tick defend rather than 1 tick they thought and not checking later ticks. I do however agree that it wont make much difference to the number of times a player makes an active decision to fight a battle he knows there will be shiploss in.
Maybe I have, at least I have for myself. Tho it is more likely that there will be no battles with me in it, as I severely doubt I will play.
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Unread 26 Feb 2015, 12:33   #83
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
What is really bugging me is that PA team have invested 3 rounds of development into an idea that 'no-one' has asked for yet have seemingly put 0 seconds of thought into any of the top 5 suggestions/requests on PS. The amount of ppl who have commented on late starters for example and yet nothing from PA team about, then they pull this shite from nowhere. Why????
Cos they're like FIFA...frustrating and a laughing stock
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 00:46   #84
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Re: R61 Changes

Nox, ppl tend to say "the players want" to give their own word more weight, because they are afraid noone will take em serious otherwise.
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 09:57   #85
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Re: R61 Changes

I don't really appreciate limiting the ways how people may play the game but the gal fund definately needed some fixing, it could had been interesting though if it were made to be stealable some how (through cov-op? certain ship? change it so that minister positions have cooldown and raiding MoD would dig into gal fund too?)

What comes to combat changes, i do hope it will be in form of 1:2 att def ticks, it will force alliances to rethink the whole "lets go X ship class" form.

It's once again same issue that is with stats, the true effect is seen only after we know how community reacts to the changes and i do like the fact that this gives an upper hand to those who are willing to analyze and change their play.
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 16:34   #86
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Re: R61 Changes

Firstly, thank you for the feedback. I know there have been some posts on this suggestions forum and I do read them and am trying to implement bits and pieces of many of them as I can.

Multi-Tick combat
I would like to say that, contrary to what has been posted here, we haven't spent rounds slaving on this - what we have done was done several rounds ago and used in a speedgame. I'm tempted to make some additional minor changes (around alliance defence display and scans) but, based on the strong feedback, I think that there aren't enough changes which can be made to satsify a large volume of posters.

For reference my obviously uneducated view of combat is that things are black and white - either you land with little/ no risk or you don't - and multi tick may allow you a partial land for smaller roids for one tick before pulling (or similar). My main concern was over managing the waves, and I did have an initial productive session with some people in #beta to see how we could make multi waves clearer and Cin and I got useful feedback, but we'll shelve most of that as we don't want to waste time on something which would seemingly currently only be tolerated on a speedgame.

Alliance Sizes
These are staying for reasons which have been previously covered around the pool of people who is able to run an alliance vs those willing to be in an alliance but not actually willing to run it; also the available infrastructure for alliances based out of the in-game system.

Galaxy Sizes
This is always a difficult point between those who want to play with their friends and prefer private galaxies and like the slightly bigger private galaxies, and those who point out that bigger galaxies tend to make it harder for alliances to attack (and sometimes result in major waving to break defence blocks).

Ultimately, the top galaxies will always do better than the bottom galaxies. Either the top galaxies mostly self-cover, and the middle/bottom galaxies struggle to do so (but galaxies may foster slightly more in the way of cooperation and spirit), or the top galaxies don't self cover but the middle/bottom galaxies become totally reliant on alliances. I'm not sure there's a right answer, which is why there has been movement back and forth on buddy pack sizes over the rounds. I still haven't really heard of a better mechanism than buddy packs - if the main issue is targets then maybe it's something we have to build in the way of non-player-planets. To get them really viable, we'd have to probably refactor large chunks of the code (or cheat drastically in how the planets are run, but even then, getting them involved in combat would be hard).


I will still be looking at other changes for R61 as I can, including on this forum and even IRC PMs (though posts on this forum with comments often help).
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 16:43   #87
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Re: R61 Changes

Buddy packs are fine in and of themselves. It's their size that's causing problems. With 4+1, you can always pick 4 of your galmates, and random exiles will generally yield at least another 2 acceptable galmates. With 3+2, you can always pick 4 of your galmates, and random exiles will generally yield at least another 3 acceptable galmates; with a smaller BP, you get more trash at tick 12, making it easier to create spots.

In my view, the game would be fine if people would get just 6 good galmates to play with, instead of 7-8 now. The removal of a BP or late sign spot would not be the end of PA's gal-centeredness.
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 16:57   #88
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Re: R61 Changes

Very welcome news appoco.

I would rather BP of 4 and no late start, if your bp was 3 then you get a late start. I think it would be better if the shuffle created gals with 8 players max and not be tied down to the number of buddy packs.

I would also like it if PA team would help us get the 170ish players who don't have alliances to discover irc and join some of the smaller tags. I like the advertise feature but maybe some pop up at the start for alliance-less players to advise them on the benefits and how to search.
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 17:12   #89
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Re: R61 Changes

Enjoy next round chaps and chapesses. May as well keep ally tags at 60 till there's 60 people left. Run it into the ground more.

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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 17:26   #90
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Re: R61 Changes

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Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post

Alliance Sizes
These are staying for reasons which have been previously covered around the pool of people who is able to run an alliance vs those willing to be in an alliance but not actually willing to run it; also the available infrastructure for alliances based out of the in-game system.
The people that run alliances want them to stay the same for a reason. Until you start to run the game properly without being dictated to by these people you wont see any more leaders or alliances. So angry at how this games run. Played it since I was a teenager. Failing leadership. It deserves to die.
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 17:48   #91
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Re: R61 Changes

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I think it would be better if the shuffle created gals with 8 players max and not be tied down to the number of buddy packs.
What happens if there are enough buddy packs and randoms to make galaxies of 7, not 8? or if there are 80 people left over, who are forced into galaxies with no buddy packs?
What happens if you get a perfect mix and have 8 man galaxies with evenly-distributed buddy packs, but then 100 people sign up later? where do you put them? in a galaxy on their own?
or, we've seen when galaxies get to 8 people each, all those wanting a private galaxy exile at the same time and create an 8 man private galaxy.

I really don't like a cap on galaxies until some of these questions can be solved.

Quote:
I would also like it if PA team would help us get the 170ish players who don't have alliances to discover irc and join some of the smaller tags.
we can always suggest but we can't ever force. I know that one alliance did run mostly on whatsapp and in-game and rarely on IRC. I agree that alliances are great, but if players only want to login once every day or two, would any alliance take them?


Quote:
I like the advertise feature but maybe some pop up at the start for alliance-less players to advise them on the benefits and how to search.
Agreed, we can try and do something about this
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 17:55   #92
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Re: R61 Changes

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The people that run alliances want them to stay the same for a reason. Until you start to run the game properly without being dictated to by these people you wont see any more leaders or alliances. So angry at how this games run. Played it since I was a teenager. Failing leadership. It deserves to die.
We've had several changes in alliances being created and dissolving and reforming again. The personnel does change in these shifts, sometimes depending on availability of people during rounds.

Would you be willing to run an alliance without any bots or external tools?

The argument was that "most players don't have time to be up at night launching and fiddling with multi target fleets" yet they can spend that same time becoming new DCs and BCs? That seems a little contradictory.
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 18:00   #93
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Re: R61 Changes

Yes. I would happily HC a new alliance using the in game tools aimed primarily for n00bs and players that have no idea what they're doing that can casually do what they want...

But there's no incentive to do so, because anyone that creates an alliance for this purpose gets shitted on by tag sizes that are way too large for the current player base
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 18:07   #94
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Re: R61 Changes

Not to add the political bullying. There wouldn't be scope for this unless tag sizes were reduced by at least 33%.

Not many people want to play seriously anymore, yet they are forced to or they give up as they are exiled around and smashed with incs until they find some friends willing to help. But who's willing to help these unexperienced players? No one, nor I whilst the game limits remain.

So do something about it.
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 18:53   #95
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Re: R61 Changes

The arguments (discussions) around tag sizes have been many and long. You're making the same points that have been discounted time after time - continuing to make the points doesn't make them right.
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 18:53   #96
BloodyButcher
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Re: R61 Changes

Krypton RainbowS succsedfully managed starting and running a tag. Why cant others do the same?
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 19:02   #97
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Re: R61 Changes

I feel as though we are going to end this conversation on an alliance bash limit scenario.

Big tags fight big tags small tags fight small tags. I know this has been mentioned before and Im neither for or against but it feels as though we are heading the current convo this way.

As a new feature I wouldnt mind seeing the private league style of play you often get in fantasy football. Create your team (alliance) create some private competition amongst other allies or other planets/gals. You still have the overall alliance/planet/gal ranking system as we do now but it would give the potential to add something else to fight for. I know a few alliances pitch one battle group vs another battle group which works nice for internal competitions.
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 19:04   #98
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Re: R61 Changes

right now we have 6 tags on around 60 members, what we need is for those not to nap the entire uni!
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 19:07   #99
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Re: R61 Changes

munkee that would work if we had an alliance score that took into consideration who you attack, sort of xp... maybe finish the work on the alliance points system
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Unread 27 Feb 2015, 19:19   #100
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Re: R61 Changes

remove the late starters while at it
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