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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 22:48   #1
roadrunner_0
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what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

just been reading about the dire state of home loans in america, with a couple of the worse lenders being predicted to go into bancruptcy, and I was just wondering (obviously about the UK rather than USA, not that i know if they would be differeent or not)

but what would happen if my mortgage lender went into bancruptcy? would my house get repossesed as an asset of the company? Would i have to take out a new mortgage to pay off the old one?
Not that i expect this to happen as i'm with a pretty stable lender (northern rock) but i'm just curious
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 22:51   #2
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Surely your mortgage lender owns the debt rather than the property? The asset is the debt - thats what would be repossessed or sold off. The house belongs to you, not the lender.


disclaimer: I know nothing at all about mortgages
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 23:31   #3
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

The property just underwrites a loan thats taken out, as nod says the bank doesn't own your house. If your property is suddenly worth 5% of what it was, but you keep up repayment i don't see what the problem is. They've got bad debts not you. The alternative would present a nightmarish scenario of unlimited liability in a similar manner to lloyd's names.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 23:32   #4
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

It all depends on what happens to the company when it has to declare itself bankrupt, I'd have thought.

If it is bought out by another company, then they simply will take over and your mortgage will be transferred to them.

Worst case scenario, I expect your house would be sold at some dirt cheap price by one of the mortgage lender's creditors, and you'd find yourself back at square 1, having to find a new mortgage with another company (and find you've just been effectively renting this house you owned for the last x years).

I'm not sure though.
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Unread 13 Mar 2007, 23:46   #5
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

well thats the kind of scenario i'm assuming, although the way i understand it is that they own my house until i make all off the payments (hence, if they have to take it off you its repossesion, as its theirs to begin with)

so all i can assume is that someone would buy up their assets and that i would have to either:

a) make arrangement with the new company as to the mortgage payments, and for me nothing would actually stop (paying £400 a month to company b instead of company a
b) whoever bought their assets at the knock down price would want to divest themselves of some of said assest, leading to some bizarre situation where i would actually have to buy my house again, although depending on how fast they needed money etc, the house might have to go for a fixed value (as in what i originally paid) or the truly nightmare scenario where i have to re buy my own house at current market prices - which i couldnt afford
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 01:28   #6
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

I did a little research.

The mortgage company doesn't own your house as an asset. They only have debt owed to them by you. So they can't reclaim your house, but they can reclaim the debt (outstanding mortgage).

So when they went bankrupt, a liquidiation company would take over, and tot up how much is owed to them, how much they owe, and how much can be salvaged.

The company would then contact you, and as you said, you'd probably be able to come to some arrangement about paying off in a lump sum your total debt (eg: £100k). To do this, the obvious way would be to get another mortgage from another company.

If the arrangement is in your favour (as your contract was arranged to be paid off over 25 years, not in one lump sum), you may be able to haggle the price down a little bit (to £80k or £90k).

So apart from a load of administration with moving mortgages, you probably wouldn't be directly affected as much as you'd think.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 01:34   #7
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Tom is correct.

It could actually be of great benefit for you.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 02:37   #8
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

cool
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 07:31   #9
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

The main question has been answered but to re-emphasise : You're worth more to your mortgage company (whomever it is) as someone paying off a loan, than whatever share of equity they "own" of your house (or you should be). Repossessing someone's house and then selling it at auction would leave everyone worse off - this is why repossessions are still quite rare, banks want you to pay back your loan, not have the headache of evicting you and then selling your house.

Ignoring anything else, in this country at least (not sure about the US) there would be massive state intervention if it looked like large numbers of owner occupiers were about to be made homeless suddenly through no fault of their own. Loans would be underwritten or bought by the government or something similar.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 07:40   #10
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
The company would then contact you, and as you said, you'd probably be able to come to some arrangement about paying off in a lump sum your total debt (eg: £100k). To do this, the obvious way would be to get another mortgage from another company.
Er, no. If you have a contract to repay X amount of money at regular intervals, then another company cant just buy this debt and change the terms of the contract. If someone bought your mortgage then you would repay it to them under the exact same conditions that you agreed to when you originally took out the mortgage which are specified in the contract - they cant just say "ok give us a lump sum" or otherwise change the original agreement without your consent.

Again I have no actual knowledge of how the law relating to mortgages works but if what I've said above is incorrect then I will be extremely surprised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner
b) whoever bought their assets at the knock down price would want to divest themselves of some of said assest, leading to some bizarre situation where i would actually have to buy my house again, although depending on how fast they needed money etc, the house might have to go for a fixed value (as in what i originally paid) or the truly nightmare scenario where i have to re buy my own house at current market prices - which i couldnt afford
I'm fairly sure that this couldnt happen. You have a contract, and the contract specifies how the debt is repaid. The mortgage company going bankrupt wouldnt alter your side of the contract at all, unless was actually some clause written into it relating to this.

Last edited by Nodrog; 14 Mar 2007 at 07:49.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 12:05   #11
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Er, no. If you have a contract to repay X amount of money at regular intervals, then another company cant just buy this debt and change the terms of the contract. If someone bought your mortgage then you would repay it to them under the exact same conditions that you agreed to when you originally took out the mortgage which are specified in the contract - they cant just say "ok give us a lump sum" or otherwise change the original agreement without your consent.

Again I have no actual knowledge of how the law relating to mortgages works but if what I've said above is incorrect then I will be extremely surprised.
You owe £100k to a company. You've arranged with this company that you'll pay off the debt in instalments every month.

The company then passes this debt on to another company.

Why should this second company care about your instalments and contract? They just want the money owed to them. Your contract was between yourself and the first company. They aren't inheritable.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 15:34   #12
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

It should be of great benefit to you as they are the ones trying one-sidedly to change the contract (when going bankrupt...)...
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 15:37   #13
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
You owe £100k to a company. You've arranged with this company that you'll pay off the debt in instalments every month.

The company then passes this debt on to another company.

Why should this second company care about your instalments and contract? They just want the money owed to them. Your contract was between yourself and the first company. They aren't inheritable.
They care about the the installments and contract because they are buying the debt, and the conditions under which the debt is repaid are defined by the contract. They can want whatever they like, but that isnt how the law works and nor should it be.

Look at it from another angle; suppose company 2 turned up on your doorstep and demanded the money. What legal claim do you think they have? How would they go about arguing that you have an obligation to pay them a $100000 lumpsum despite the fact you have never signed anything agreeing with this?
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 16:41   #14
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Debt is fluid and transferrable. Contracts aren't.

I'm sure that some liquidation companies would be willing to sort out a NEW payment plan with you, but any contract written before will have nothing to do with it.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 19:42   #15
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
suppose company 2 turned up on your doorstep and demanded the money. What legal claim do you think they have? How would they go about arguing that you have an obligation to pay them a $100000 lumpsum despite the fact you have never signed anything agreeing with this?
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 20:02   #16
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

I don't know about the UK but in the US most mortgages seem to be purchased from the origianl lender. I have, in the past, had my mortgage sold to other institutions. There are even companies that don't make any original loans and that solely purchase loans from other institutions.

Don't worry, you will not be affected if such a thing were to happen though you might start sending your payment to another address.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 20:04   #17
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
You owe £100k to a company. You've arranged with this company that you'll pay off the debt in instalments every month.

The company then passes this debt on to another company.

Why should this second company care about your instalments and contract? They just want the money owed to them. Your contract was between yourself and the first company. They aren't inheritable.
the 2nd company bought the debt under the conditions stated in the contract. Anything else doesnt make any sense, there would be no point in the contract to begin with (as it could easily be canceled by the first company whenever they wanted to by simply selling that debt to another company).
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 21:24   #18
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Here in Canada when the debt/loan was transferred between institutions they informed me and the repayment period, amount and intrest all stayed the same. So there was effectivly no diffrence to me. Since they took it straight out of my bank account, once I gave them permission and I had it all in writing, there was absolutly no diffrence to me. Only diffrence was that I got my yearly statement from a diffrent address/company.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 22:11   #19
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

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Originally Posted by Tomkat
Debt is fluid and transferrable (1). Contracts aren't. (2)
(1) yes
(2) no
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 22:12   #20
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

First up - Companies don't really go into bankruptcy in the UK. If a company is insolvent as is likely in the case they would either go into liquidation or administration.

I'd guess that you'd simply become an outstanding debtor of the company and your regular contributions wouldn't really change.
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 22:16   #21
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

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Originally Posted by Zar
First up - Companies don't really go into bankruptcy in the UK.
ooooo it's so like the grand national.

Unfortunately you fell at the first fence
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 22:46   #22
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

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Originally Posted by Yahwe
ooooo it's so like the grand national.

Unfortunately you fell at the first fence
6. Companies in the UK can go bankrupt
Not true. It’s a technicality, but companies in the UK can go insolvent, go into administration, into administrative receivership, into liquidation and can be wound up but they can never go bankrupt – that term’s used only for individuals not companies. In the US companies can go bankrupt.

http://money.uk.msn.com/Planning/Lif...umentid=143523

Shame I had to use bill gates as a source but anyway..
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Unread 14 Mar 2007, 23:31   #23
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Exclamation Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

In the US, buyers of mortgages are required to honor the terms of the original contract (they are only permitted to adjust certain fees associated with servicing the loan). That said, some mortgages contain on-demand clauses that permit the mortgage holder to call the loan under certain conditions (most commonly, whenever the property is sold). On-demand clauses with no conditions (allowing the holder of the mortgage to call the loan at any time for any reason) are extremely rare for the simple reason that whenever interest rates went up, there'd be no reason for them not to call the loan and relend the money at the higher rate.

Mortgages are bought and sold all the time here. They're bundled into packets (called Collateralized Mortgage Obligations) and then sub-divided into pieces that offer varying degrees of risk and return and are then sold. CMOs trade freely and as interest rates flucuate, or the mortgages mature, default or are paid off the CMOs can be broken apart, rebundled and resold. Although mortgages change hands more often than ever before, homeowners are actually seeing less of this activity because mortgage payments are increasingly handled by mortgage servicing companies--middlemen who simply collect payments and forward them to the (current) owners of the mortgage (for a fee ofc). The actual owners of the mortgages are typically not mortgage companies at all, but simply investors who buy CMOs much like they'd buy corporate bonds. I have some CMOs in my retirement account so in theory I could own (part of) my own mortgage.

My wife works in an office that does CMO pricing (mostly for home and car loans). She can go on for hours about tranches and CMOs and whatnot. I think I'd kill myself if I worked there; but she seems to like it and the pay is pretty good.
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 00:01   #24
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Oh god! I`m glad I rent cheap :-)
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 05:57   #25
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
In the US, buyers of mortgages are required to honor the terms of the original contract (they are only permitted to adjust certain fees associated with servicing the loan). That said, some mortgages contain on-demand clauses that permit the mortgage holder to call the loan under certain conditions (most commonly, whenever the property is sold).
Absolutely. Usually upon approval of funding, the initial lenders are almost always direct lenders, and will fund the mortgage upon agreement, acceptance of conditions and approval.

Right after funding, the initial direct lenders will then sell or bid to other lenders, the loan and the original contract. Whoever takes the bid (most of the time, the first lender to be contacted by the direct lender takes the bid), will then buy the original mortgage agreement and will take over the long-term commitment of the mortgage with the homeowner.
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Unread 15 Mar 2007, 20:09   #26
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

I asked one of the case managers at work today (I work in corporate Insolvency) and he basically said that if the mortgage company became insolvent it there are a few options:

1) Company goes into liquidation and the IP will attempt to sell the company to another which will take on debt. Your mortgage repayments would stay the same and just be transferred.

2) If no buyer could be sought - it could very well remain in liquidation until all outstanding debtors (& creditors) have been cleared. The IP could also attempt to try to come to an arrangement with the creditors either through a company voluntary arrangement or otherwise (unlikely in this case).

3) The company could be put into administration. Although administrations generally only last 12 months - there are special provisions that can extend this... he then went on about something to do with banks and certain institutions not being allowed into administration but I didn't really understand so switched off.
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 00:02   #27
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zar
I asked one of the case managers at work today (I work in corporate Insolvency) and he basically said that if the mortgage company became insolvent it there are a few options:

1) Company goes into liquidation and the IP will attempt to sell the company to another which will take on debt. Your mortgage repayments would stay the same and just be transferred.

2) If no buyer could be sought - it could very well remain in liquidation until all outstanding debtors (& creditors) have been cleared. The IP could also attempt to try to come to an arrangement with the creditors either through a company voluntary arrangement or otherwise (unlikely in this case).

3) The company could be put into administration. Although administrations generally only last 12 months - there are special provisions that can extend this... he then went on about something to do with banks and certain institutions not being allowed into administration but I didn't really understand so switched off.
the reason you look stupid is because you think you know too much and you can not comprehend the complexity of how simple the truth actually is.
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 08:40   #28
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
the reason you look stupid is because you think you know too much and you can not comprehend the complexity of how simple the truth actually is.
Firstly I'm simply paraphrasing someone who deals with these sorts of things on a daily basis.

Secondly what makes you think I'm going to take insult from a Recruitment Consultant?
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 11:35   #29
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

A bank simply "takes over" the home and your payments are now due to them.
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 14:03   #30
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

I spoke with a Mortgage Advisor here at work.

If your mortgage company goes bankrupt, whoever takes over their debt is who you'll pay the mortgage too.

You don't even need to go through the process of getting a new mortgage.

You'll still pay the same rate and monthly payment, just to a different company.

Companies like Kensington, GMAC etc sell their mortgages the day after completion to the likes of Oakwood, Rooftop etc.

Mainly to off load the shit accounts, but they will often or not include some clean customers to make the figures look decent to the company buying the accounts.
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 17:33   #31
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

I think people are repeating what's already been said though - that the debt would merely be transferred to another company who'd take over (your house wouldn't be repossessed or anything).

The dicussion had moved onto whether the contract remained the same (same remaining number of payments, same cost for each payment) or if a new one had to be written up (perhaps with more favourable terms).
Although it seems from what you've said, that the contract remains the same (and that nod was correct). I assumed a new one would be written up for the new company.
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 18:45   #32
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I think people are repeating what's already been said though - that the debt would merely be transferred to another company who'd take over (your house wouldn't be repossessed or anything).

The dicussion had moved onto whether the contract remained the same (same remaining number of payments, same cost for each payment) or if a new one had to be written up (perhaps with more favourable terms).
Although it seems from what you've said, that the contract remains the same (and that nod was correct). I assumed a new one would be written up for the new company.

Correct, new company. Details remain the same
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 19:05   #33
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

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Originally Posted by Tomkat
nod was correct
I was going to say that too but I was afraid that my keyboard might catch fire if I tried to put that phrase together.
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 19:09   #34
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

I've just finished dousing the flames
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Unread 16 Mar 2007, 22:55   #35
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Re: what would happen if your mortgage lender went under?

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Originally Posted by dda
I was going to say that too but I was afraid that my keyboard my catch fire if I tried to put that phrase together.

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