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Unread 3 Nov 2002, 12:57   #1
meglamaniac
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Sharing a cable 'modem' connection with >2 people

One of my mates is in a house and they have decided to get cable fitted. They want to share it with 4 computers. The cable connection will be going downstairs probably - certainly not into one of thier bedrooms since none of them want thier computer to have to be on 24/7 to share it.

I'm guessing this needs either
a) a router, which one would plug the cable modem into (the ethernet connection obviously) and then the other machines as well,
or
b) a computer with 2 network cards and a hub (or a switch if they're feeling like spending more money).

They can lay thier hands on a base unit + keyboard and mouse but no monitor for free. This unit is a P266, 128Mb RAM, 6Gb HD. Nothing special, but it doesn't need to be. As this would obviously be far cheaper than a router I want to investigate this first.
I'd be putting linux on it simply because it must stay up 24/7 as they can't afford a monitor for it, which means each time it had to be restarted someone would have to drag thiers over to it.
Now, what I'm not entierly sure is what settings if any I need to set it up and going. Whenever I've used linux I've used Mandrake so far, so I'd envisage putting an older version on it. All the ones I have copies of have worked with ethernet net connections "out of the box" as setup has detected the card, so its started up at boot time. They have also all had an option to share the internet connection in the Mandrake Control Center.
Would this be sufficient?
As I've said before, networking isn't my strong point - I'm assuming that sharing would work through the hub?

Just in case it's not clear, the setup I'd want to use would look like this:
Code:
     |
     |
     | <-- Cable connected via ethernet card 1
   Router
   Machine
     | <-- Connection to hub via ethernet card 2
     |
PC1-Hub-PC4
    / \
  PC2 PC3
I'm not too bothered about firewalls or anything, since linux is pretty secure anyway plus it doesn't really matter if someone does manage get into that machine.
Any advice appreciated.

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Unread 3 Nov 2002, 13:45   #2
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This is a literally identical setup to what I have in my house.

I have an NTL box with an ethernet port connected to a P166/64MB RAM Linux box running Mandrake 8.2 (with no monitor) under my stairs. Another NIC in this machine connects it to a hub, which spiders off to feed 4 other machines in various parts of the house.

This is absurdly easy to set up in Mandrake - there are wizards that will do all the work for you, and it should work first time. You'll need to borrow someone's monitor to install it/set it up, and iirc the central server will end up (or you should set it up to be) 192.168.0.1. I set up the client machines to all have static internal ip's - 192.168.0.2 = mine, .3 = my gf's etc, which shortcuts a lot of the headaches you might encounter. And don't worry about trying to obtain an older version of Mandrake - a P266 will run the latest versions happily. The desktop will be a bit slow, but it will serve packets quickly, and that's what matters.

I administer my machine via ssh - imperative that you install this server (I think it's installed by default on Mandrake). VNC is also pretty nice, but I hear getting X working over ssh is better (not tried it meself though).
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Unread 3 Nov 2002, 13:48   #3
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As a sidenote, when the connection goes down, reset the modem, not the server, as it's never the servers fault. The server will re-establish connection as soon as it's available.
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Unread 3 Nov 2002, 14:20   #4
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Re: Sharing a cable 'modem' connection with >2 people

Quote:
Originally posted by meglamaniac
One of my mates is in a house and they have decided to get cable fitted. They want to share it with 4 computers. The cable connection will be going downstairs probably - certainly not into one of thier bedrooms since none of them want thier computer to have to be on 24/7 to share it.

I'm guessing this needs either
a) a router, which one would plug the cable modem into (the ethernet connection obviously) and then the other machines as well,
or
b) a computer with 2 network cards and a hub (or a switch if they're feeling like spending more money).

They can lay thier hands on a base unit + keyboard and mouse but no monitor for free. This unit is a P266, 128Mb RAM, 6Gb HD. Nothing special, but it doesn't need to be. As this would obviously be far cheaper than a router I want to investigate this first.
I'd be putting linux on it simply because it must stay up 24/7 as they can't afford a monitor for it, which means each time it had to be restarted someone would have to drag thiers over to it.
Now, what I'm not entierly sure is what settings if any I need to set it up and going. Whenever I've used linux I've used Mandrake so far, so I'd envisage putting an older version on it. All the ones I have copies of have worked with ethernet net connections "out of the box" as setup has detected the card, so its started up at boot time. They have also all had an option to share the internet connection in the Mandrake Control Center.
Would this be sufficient?
As I've said before, networking isn't my strong point - I'm assuming that sharing would work through the hub?

Just in case it's not clear, the setup I'd want to use would look like this:
Code:
     |
     |
     | <-- Cable connected via ethernet card 1
   Router
   Machine
     | <-- Connection to hub via ethernet card 2
     |
PC1-Hub-PC4
    / \
  PC2 PC3
I'm not too bothered about firewalls or anything, since linux is pretty secure anyway plus it doesn't really matter if someone does manage get into that machine.
Any advice appreciated.

If you don't want to install a full linux distro with web server etc on the router then this might be worth a look. Easy to set up and ridiculously fast as everything runs from RAM, no HDD swapping at all. Best of all a reboot consists of simply turning it off and on again because there's no filesystem to corrupt

It's also more secure than your average distro because it doesn't run any unnecessary daemons and does come with a firewall (despite linux being more secure than windows a firewall is still a good idea).

You might also want to take a look at the Linux Router Project but that's fallen a little by the wayside I think, could be useful though.

Hope this helps
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Unread 3 Nov 2002, 15:30   #5
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Looks like I need to read up on SSH then.
SSH = secure shell is the sum total of my knowledge in the area.
Any good places to start?
Bear in mind that every other machine will be windows (they're all XP Home afaik, which should be "interesting" given it's general approach to networking ...).

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Unread 3 Nov 2002, 16:37   #6
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Have no experience in it, but i've heard good things about Smoothwall
and afaik it can be configured via a web browser
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Unread 3 Nov 2002, 17:41   #7
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*megla downloads Smoothwall GPL

They ain't getting the cable installed till after xmas, so I can play with it at home during the holiday - having read the manual it seems pretty simple and ideal for this kind of setup.

Thanks for the info.

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Unread 3 Nov 2002, 18:19   #8
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Alternatively...

http://online.securityfocus.com/tools/category/81

That's the firewall section of the Security Focus website. There's everything from PHP firewall generation scripts (answer a few questions and it generates your firewall script) to fully featured log analysers on there. Some of it is incomprehensible to us mere mortals but there's a lot that's designed to make life easier as well
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Unread 3 Nov 2002, 18:21   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by meglamaniac
They ain't getting the cable installed till after xmas

If they were thinking of going with NTL they should sign up before New Year, otherwise they'll have to pay a £75 installation fee compared to the £0.00 it is atm...
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Unread 4 Nov 2002, 00:14   #10
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Re: Sharing a cable 'modem' connection with >2 people

get yourself a router with inbuilt cable modem, you should be able to pick one up for about £80 and a sweet 5 port switch is only just over £20 from www.scan.co.uk

then you dont need any computer to be on 24/7

simelar setup to mine but with an adsl router instead of a cable one
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Unread 4 Nov 2002, 00:52   #11
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Turns out cable is not available here - its ADSL or nothing.

Why spend £80 on a router to save about £15 a year on electricity? It's not like a P200 needs a private powerstation.

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Unread 4 Nov 2002, 08:49   #12
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ssh is a secure remote command line interface - bring up a terminal window on your Linux distribution, and pretend it's a window onto another computer. Mandrake comes with a built in firewall, and a NAT server configuration (which this is) is inherently secure. I mainly use ssh to piss around with my server, as it already does what it's supposed to do. I may change my Proftpd config file, then restart it via ssh.

(Invariably it doesn't work).

Putty is a simple ssh client for Windows, which you can use to connect to your Linux box.
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Unread 4 Nov 2002, 11:12   #13
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Don't put that piece of **** smoothwall or let that **** **** morrell have any control over your system.

Alternatives: e-smith, (the one that forked from smoothwall, name escapes me), any proper linux distro. I'd rather drive over and install and configure the box myself than let ****ie get his hands on it.
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Unread 4 Nov 2002, 11:15   #14
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ironic, his name is actually di ck morrell

The one i forget is ip-cop.
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Unread 4 Nov 2002, 12:12   #15
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Care to explain your misgivings?

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Unread 4 Nov 2002, 17:33   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miserableman
...a NAT server configuration (which this is) is inherently secure.
Exqueeze me?
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Unread 4 Nov 2002, 18:05   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by meglamaniac
Why spend £80 on a router to save about £15 a year on electricity? It's not like a P200 needs a private powerstation.
Why spend more than £80 on a second hand computer? Not everyone has this u know.

DSL router = less to go wrong, and in the long run probably cheaper than setting up a PC.
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Unread 4 Nov 2002, 21:14   #18
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I allready said I had the second hand PC, so fairly obviously thats cheaper.

And it will be running on some kind of basic linux platform, so the only way its really likely to go wrong is if hardware fails.

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Unread 5 Nov 2002, 12:01   #19
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megla, the guy is an utter retard, he has no care for the open source community (q.v. his GPL 'license' which he got told in no uncertain terms wasnt anywhere near JEE PEE ELL), smoothwall has numerous security holes.

The guy himself is a social retard, he is rude and offensive to pretty much everyone he meets - he's virtually a pariah in the open source community.

Also, the product itself is pretty crap. Apart from what it does by default, theres nothing else you can do with it. Fancy having a little PHP/Apache combo? tough luck.
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Unread 5 Nov 2002, 13:31   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gayle28uk

Exqueeze me?
You know as well as I do that attacking a machine through a NAT server is a lot more difficult than attacking one bolted straight to the internet.
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Unread 5 Nov 2002, 14:03   #21
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Fair enough MT, I'll have a gander at IP COP too then.
To be fair, I'm not after fancy firewalls etc - just something that will act as a router out of the box and isn't going to take weeks to configure to perfection.
So long as it routes, and allows them to access webpages, email, and probably direct connect (as theres a university hub here) then thats all it has to do.
The DHCP server is a nicity that's not really necessary from my point of view - how hard is it to configure 4 machines' IP addresses to match the router? They certainly aren't going to be serving web pages.

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Unread 5 Nov 2002, 15:59   #22
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Hmm - might as well get that then.
The main benefit I can see is it uses the EXT3 fs, so if the power goes down the drive shouldn't be screwed.

I don't see what Mr. Morrell bitchin' about (saw his side of the story of the fork on his site) - they've credited him for the sources that they're basing IPCop on.
Looks like he doesn't like the idea of them undercutting his corperate version to me...

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Unread 5 Nov 2002, 16:41   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by meglamaniac
Hmm - might as well get that then.
The main benefit I can see is it uses the EXT3 fs, so if the power goes down the drive shouldn't be screwed.

I don't see what Mr. Morrell bitchin' about (saw his side of the story of the fork on his site) - they've credited him for the sources that they're basing IPCop on.
Looks like he doesn't like the idea of them undercutting his corperate version to me...

Theres a lot more than that - he aims his 'distro' (its entirely nicked himself, the only thing smoothwall wrote is the few web admin tools) at newbies, and then swears at them, screams and shouts at them, and then bans them from their irc 'support' channel.
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Unread 5 Nov 2002, 16:57   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miserableman


You know as well as I do that attacking a machine through a NAT server is a lot more difficult than attacking one bolted straight to the internet.
Oh, undoubtedly, but without a firewall your linux box will be vastly easier to attack and someone with control of that would find getting to your NATed machines childsplay.
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ACHTUNG!!!
Das machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy
schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und corkenpoppen mit
spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das
rubbernecken sightseeren keepen hands in das pockets. Relaxen und vatch
das blinkenlights!!!
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Unread 5 Nov 2002, 18:03   #25
MT
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Firewall or no firewall - all you can be hacked through are the open and listening ports on your server. The fewer services you ahve running, the less likely you are to get hacked.

You can ahve the bestest firewall in the world, but if you have hundreds of services running and accessible to joe public to examine, you are going to get hacked much more readily than the guy with no firewall, who runs no publicly accessible services.

You may call binding services to a particular IP a firewall - I dont.
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<idimmu> ok i was chained to a desk with this oriental dude
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Unread 5 Nov 2002, 19:04   #26
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Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Vaio has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Quote:
Originally posted by MT
megla, the guy is an utter retard
Thats the understatement of the week

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