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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 01:29   #1
Achilles
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Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Out of interest I've decided to analyse a topic with respect to the people who have posted, what they have said and the way they said it. I chose "When's most of the universe going to wake up?" as my example. I used the thread as it existed at 21:45 BST.

84 total posts

Breakdown of posters by nick:

14 posts
Methedrine, Rumad

6 posts
Chika

5 posts
ComradRob

4 posts
Game', mazzelar

3 posts
Colt, Tomkat

2 posts
B-Butch3r, Forest, Fyodor, Gerbie, Hicks, Helix, Morden, The_Fish, Treveler

1 post
Banned, BlackNova, BoredOfThis, Dinobot, Klendau, lokken, Lord_Thunderball, Sn0w, TehVader, Vaio, virogenesis, waffle, Zh|l


Breakdown of posts by alliance:
1up - 36 posts
(Blacknova, BoredOfThis, Chika, ComradRob, Dinobot, Forest, Game', Hicks, Helix, mazzelar, Tomkat, Treveler, virogenesis, Zh|l)

Unknown - 20 posts
(Banned, Fyodor, Methedrine, Sn0w, Vaio)

None - 17 posts
(Morden, Rumad, waffle)

FAnG/MISTU - 5 posts
(B-Butch3r, Colt)

NewDawn - 4 Posts
(lokken, TehVader, The_Fish)

Other - 4 Posts
(Gerbie, Klendau, Lord_Thunderball)


Analysis of Post Content
% of posts with no topical relevance - 47.62%
(#'s 2, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 17, 28, 37 - 47 incl., 50, 51, 52, 56, 59, 60, 61, 63, 66, 67, 68, 76 - 84 incl.)

% of posts containing trolling and/or (very) excessive language - 11.90%
(#'s 2, 6, 9, 42, 43, 44, 46, 52, 75, 79)


Naughty Boys List

Rumad. 14 Posts:
11 had no relation to the thread's topic (#'s 2, 6, 11, 14, 17, 28, 37, 39, 41, 43, 46)
2 were pretty sad troll attempts (#'s 2 & 6)
2 were written to flame Hicks (#'s 43, 46.) It could be said this was done in self defence.

Hicks. 2 Posts:
Both (#'s 42 & 44) were written to flame Rumad and were, in my opinion, a bit close to the bone.

Chika. 6 Posts:
4 were irrelevant (#'s 52, 77, 79, 80)
3 were flames and refered to gayness as a negative trait. It's not big and it's not clever. (#'s 52, 75,79)


Finally, to the point of my thread. Why is none of this behaviour stamped on by the mods? Some off topic convo is inevitable and even appreciated but almost 50% is too much. Much too much. As far as I know there are only 2 moderators for AD (a difficult and thankless job) and this doesn't seem to be enough. I beseech you to stem the tide of drivel that threatens to drown us all. Appoint mods, get medieval on troll asses, whatever it takes.

I really despise having to spend an hour a day wading through shit to find a decent argument. I would think I'm not alone.

Edit: Moved waffle from 1up to no alliance.

Last edited by Achilles; 4 Jul 2004 at 09:46.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 01:37   #2
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

This thread has no relevance to AD and should be posted on the suggestions forum.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 01:37   #3
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

If the moderators started moderating, PA would be absolutely no fun at all
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 01:39   #4
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

I was at work and norty. Sue me.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 01:42   #5
Achilles
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnought
This thread has no relevance to AD and should be posted on the suggestions forum.
It is relevant in that it's the quality of AD (and how it's moderated) I want to improve, not the game itself. In reality it may not fit correctly in any of the PA threads since it deals not with the game, but with the boards themselves. Here is as good a place as any I think.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 01:42   #6
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
It is relevant in that it's the quality of AD (and how it's moderated) I want to improve, not the game itself. In reality it may not fit correctly in any of the PA threads since it deals not with the game, but with the boards themselves. Here is as good a place as any I think.
This thread does not discuss alliances

Annnnnnnnnnnnd on an aliances discussions forums thats pretty important
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 01:43   #7
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Being relevant to the forum AD does not mean it relevant to the material suited for AD. This is a request/suggestion, and should hence be posted on Suggestions forum.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 01:45   #8
Achilles
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
If the moderators started moderating, PA would be absolutely no fun at all
You find trying to read Rumads posts fun? That kind of madness can't be legislated for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal2112
Hi. It would be cool to not have a life and analyse threads on an Internet forum.
Very clever. No, really, it was. We all laughed. Not that I understand how I spend my time or how I live my life is any of your business or has any bearing on the topic.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 01:48   #9
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnought
This thread does not discuss alliances

Annnnnnnnnnnnd on an aliances discussions forums thats pretty important
But it does discuss how we should discuss alliances.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRat
Being relevant to the forum AD does not mean it relevant to the material suited for AD. This is a request/suggestion, and should hence be posted on Suggestions forum.
But it's not a suggestion for the game, it's a suggestion for the forum. And there is no Forums suggestion section.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 01:50   #10
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Talking Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
But it's not a suggestion for the game, it's a suggestion for the forum. And there is no Forums suggestion section.
Then perhaps you should go to the suggestions forums even so. Seeing as this forum is distantly a part of the game, a suggestion for the game would be creating a forum suggestions forum. If that request is approved, you can then go to your new forum and post this thread as a suggestion there.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 01:52   #11
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
You find trying to read Rumads posts fun? That kind of madness can't be legislated for.
That kind of madness is what makes it fun. The world would be a boring place without bobbleheads running around in it.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 02:03   #12
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

As it's specifically relevant to this board rather than the forum as a whole I think it can stay here until one of the regular moderators comes online and decides.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 02:21   #13
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Achilles fights the powers and wins!

IMMORTALITY - TAKE IT, IT'S YOURS!
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 02:32   #14
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Hehe. Nice post Achilles. (was that ok for me to say?)
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 02:33   #15
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

On the one hand, I find it amusing that only those complain which tend to flame and to tear threads away from their topic (as they are once again proving in this thread).
On the other hand, I fnd it sad for official discussion forums of an online game that people are allowed to constantly break (or from their point of view extremely stretch) forum rules.

I do however agree that a certain amount of cynism and pretty off-topic one-liner comments are increasing the fun. But what I personally experienced from the threads I read is that there are rarely any relevant statements to threads. If people want to have fun with flaming others then take it to pm or create a thread for its purpose. Saves the mods a lot of work and gives people a chance to completely ignore childish behaviour. After all it's also a matter of reputation for the game, the more mature the community, the more likely to attract players on a long-term basis (unless they are counterstrike kiddies, which admittedly have neither enough time nor intelligence to play a game like Planetarion).

[EDIT] There are actually 4 people listed as Alliance Discussion moderators: Aryn, ComradeRob, JonnyBeGood, PiaZava

Last edited by Methedrine; 4 Jul 2004 at 02:46.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 02:36   #16
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

HEY (insert name here) (insert your alliance name here) SUCKS!!!!

there, now it's as relevant to the AD as any thread I've read
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 02:49   #17
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Who the hell is PiaZava...
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 02:51   #18
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Umm, my request to not be moderated, was moderated. I can't remember what I said. Oh, if you delete my posts, please delete any refence to me.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 02:52   #19
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Moderate this post!
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 03:27   #20
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

OK.

From now on, shit posts are being deleted. Any complaints can be directed to [email protected]****off.com.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 03:50   #21
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methedrine
There are actually 4 people listed as Alliance Discussion moderators: Aryn, ComradeRob, JonnyBeGood, PiaZava
Indeed, but only ComradRob and JonnyBeGood actively moderate. I haven't seen an Aryn post since R10. And I haven't ever heard of PiaZava. Or at least I don't think I have. I guess what I'm saying is that (if) more mods are needed, they should be appointed.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 03:59   #22
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Indeed, but only ComradRob and JonnyBeGood actively moderate. I haven't seen an Aryn post since R10. And I haven't ever heard of PiaZava. Or at least I don't think I have. I guess what I'm saying is that (if) more mods are needed, they should be appointed.
Me! I'm active
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 04:02   #23
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

As an aside, I personally don't mind the trolls all that much. It might be the case that after almost four years, I have developed an immunity to them, and their posts simply no longer register with my brain.

I've always been against aggressive moderation, but since the current situation calls for it, I'll be aggressively moderating until people start to take the hint.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 09:26   #24
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Breakdown of posts by alliance:
1up - 37 posts
(Blacknova, BoredOfThis, Chika, ComradRob, Dinobot, Forest, Game', Hicks, Helix, mazzelar, Tomkat, Treveler, virogenesis, waffle, Zh|l)
I am not 1up, can you please fix that. Thanks.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 09:43   #25
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
OK.

From now on, shit posts are being deleted. Any complaints can be directed to [email protected]****off.com.
Hey, no one told me I'd been rehired

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeRob
I've always been against aggressive moderation, but since the current situation calls for it, I'll be aggressively moderating until people start to take the hint.
I don't think aggressive moderation is a good idea at all, it's never yielded anything good. I held that opinion before I became mod and was stupid for not bringing it with me.

It's easy to think that it helps or is justified, but really, for an arena such as AD to survive, we need to accept hideously biased comments and snide remarks. A lot of people are provoked by them, and it would be better if threads stayed on topic, but not every post can be pristine and thoughtful.

That said, the stuff that went on in Methedrine's thread was clearly out of line. I think Rumad should've been banned a few times ages ago, and Hicks definitely should've had a week long ban. Note that I don't advocate deleting their crap. If someone wants to be a dick, let it be known that they are a dick, it's not exactly helping them. A ban is a better 'punishment' because, unlike deleting posts/threads, it does not destroy information or attempt to silence anybody. It does not take away anything* that can't be regained.

Bans should come in three categories: temporary, permanent and blacklist. The former can be used as a warning of sorts. A three day or week long ban should put a bump in the road for rampant flamers. If someone regs a new account while their normal account is temp-banned, their normal account should be perma-banned. After all, they have made it quite clear that they don't need it, right? Blacklisting should only be for problem children**. Every ban should be preceded by a warning, and temp-bans should come with a PM detailing why a person was banned and how they should modify their posting to avoid being banned again. This latter point is very important, because (at least when I was mod) no one was ever told why they were banned. Hell, I wasn't even told, it had to be an AD*** thread for anyone to talk to me about it. And that's the normal case, if you want to know, someone has to make a fuss about it on the relevant forum.

The final point that speaks against deleting/modifying shit posts is this: It's ****ing tedious work. No one can be bothered with it in the long term. So it's a temporary fix that lacks long term effects.

* Well, reg dates, but then they've been known to change as well (Hi Karm!)

** People who regularly not only abuse other users, but break the rules. People who are normally unaffected by bans should probably be warned and eventually blacklisted if they do

*** A bit ironic, considering I was banned for something I did on GD.

Last edited by Banned; 4 Jul 2004 at 09:58.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 10:39   #26
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Out of interest I've decided to analyse a topic with respect to the people who have posted, what they have said and the way they said it. I chose "When's most of the universe going to wake up?" as my example. I used the thread as it existed at 21:45 BST.

84 total posts

Breakdown of posters by nick:

14 posts
Methedrine, Rumad

6 posts
Chika

5 posts
ComradRob

4 posts
Game', mazzelar

3 posts
Colt, Tomkat

2 posts
B-Butch3r, Forest, Fyodor, Gerbie, Hicks, Helix, Morden, The_Fish, Treveler

1 post
Banned, BlackNova, BoredOfThis, Dinobot, Klendau, lokken, Lord_Thunderball, Sn0w, TehVader, Vaio, virogenesis, waffle, Zh|l


Breakdown of posts by alliance:
1up - 36 posts
(Blacknova, BoredOfThis, Chika, ComradRob, Dinobot, Forest, Game', Hicks, Helix, mazzelar, Tomkat, Treveler, virogenesis, Zh|l)

Unknown - 20 posts
(Banned, Fyodor, Methedrine, Sn0w, Vaio)

None - 17 posts
(Morden, Rumad, waffle)

FAnG/MISTU - 5 posts
(B-Butch3r, Colt)

NewDawn - 4 Posts
(lokken, TehVader, The_Fish)

Other - 4 Posts
(Gerbie, Klendau, Lord_Thunderball)


Analysis of Post Content
% of posts with no topical relevance - 47.62%
(#'s 2, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 17, 28, 37 - 47 incl., 50, 51, 52, 56, 59, 60, 61, 63, 66, 67, 68, 76 - 84 incl.)

% of posts containing trolling and/or (very) excessive language - 11.90%
(#'s 2, 6, 9, 42, 43, 44, 46, 52, 75, 79)


Naughty Boys List

Rumad. 14 Posts:
11 had no relation to the thread's topic (#'s 2, 6, 11, 14, 17, 28, 37, 39, 41, 43, 46)
2 were pretty sad troll attempts (#'s 2 & 6)
2 were written to flame Hicks (#'s 43, 46.) It could be said this was done in self defence.

Hicks. 2 Posts:
Both (#'s 42 & 44) were written to flame Rumad and were, in my opinion, a bit close to the bone.

Chika. 6 Posts:
4 were irrelevant (#'s 52, 77, 79, 80)
3 were flames and refered to gayness as a negative trait. It's not big and it's not clever. (#'s 52, 75,79)


Finally, to the point of my thread. Why is none of this behaviour stamped on by the mods? Some off topic convo is inevitable and even appreciated but almost 50% is too much. Much too much. As far as I know there are only 2 moderators for AD (a difficult and thankless job) and this doesn't seem to be enough. I beseech you to stem the tide of drivel that threatens to drown us all. Appoint mods, get medieval on troll asses, whatever it takes.

I really despise having to spend an hour a day wading through shit to find a decent argument. I would think I'm not alone.

Edit: Moved waffle from 1up to no alliance.
all this information might be correct though hardly reality. I was on vacation for a week ...
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 10:41   #27
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

ohh btw, odd that most posters were 1up, and the boards are more shit then ever ....

Also I liked your nice FAnG/mistu touch, I think some of the mindless zombies on AD will soon start to believe the exquicit PR ...
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 10:44   #28
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
Also I liked your nice FAnG/mistu touch, I think some of the mindless zombies on AD will soon start to believe the exquicit PR ...
It's not that we think you're allied or NAPed, it's just that it's convinient to lump you two together.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 11:37   #29
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
Umm, my request to not be moderated, was moderated. I can't remember what I said. Oh, if you delete my posts, please delete any refence to me.
Yeah, I restored the post you were talking about and deleted the request to restore it cos it no longer made sense.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 12:14   #30
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
Bans should come in three categories: temporary, permanent and blacklist.
They do.

Quote:
Every ban should be preceded by a warning, and temp-bans should come with a PM detailing why a person was banned and how they should modify their posting to avoid being banned again. This latter point is very important, because (at least when I was mod) no one was ever told why they were banned. Hell, I wasn't even told, it had to be an AD*** thread for anyone to talk to me about it. And that's the normal case, if you want to know, someone has to make a fuss about it on the relevant forum.
People are supposed to get warnings via PM before they are banned, at least thats what i always did.

Modding AD is by far the shittest job you can have as a mod. Its like trying to run a kindergarten.


P.S. Making a thread to complain about another thread only creates more crap. Mods should either be PMed directly with a complain or use the report post button which will send them an email notifying them of your complaint.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 13:14   #31
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Im not FAnG, so you can move me plz
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 14:01   #32
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colt
Im not FAnG, so you can move me plz
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 14:19   #33
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
They do.
Yeah, I know, except I was outlining a policy for use of them, not what sort of bans are possible. When I was made mod there was no one to tell me what guidelines were in place. Not that there actually were any. Without consistency, regulation is just tyranny.

Quote:
People are supposed to get warnings via PM before they are banned, at least thats what i always did.
Yes, but they don't. Which is one of the reasons people dislike the moderation. It often seems arbitrary when the only real communication is through bans.

Quote:
Modding AD is by far the shittest job you can have as a mod. Its like trying to run a kindergarten.
Tell me about it.

Quote:
P.S. Making a thread to complain about another thread only creates more crap. Mods should either be PMed directly with a complain or use the report post button which will send them an email notifying them of your complaint.
Normally I'd agree, but there is some merit to having a discussion about moderation. However, it should not be the first step. What you said, contacting the moderators directly, should always be the first step in trying to help them moderate better.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 18:35   #34
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
When I was made mod there was no one to tell me what guidelines were in place. Not that there actually were any. Without consistency, regulation is just tyranny.
I remember there being some guidelines somewhere but you are right in that you arent exactly taught how to be a mod. Its more a case of give him the job and hope he turns out to be ok. This thus means how each mod deals with a situation varies slightly.

The way i did it was to give people a couple of verbal warnings via PM before getting to the stage of banning unless it was a blatant breaking of the forum rules like posting porn or something. I've never been a big fan of temporary bans, i think they just tend to cause more bother than they are worth. A couple of times when people pissed me off i used mass prune instead, which pissed them off more than me and generally got my point across quite well .


Quote:
Yes, but they don't. Which is one of the reasons people dislike the moderation. It often seems arbitrary when the only real communication is through bans.
Who are the mods on AD at the moment?

Aryn - inactive i think
ComradeRob
JBG

They are all experienced mods so i would imagine they would do there job in a similar way to myself and try to communicate with the users rather than just be a figure from afar that randomly bans people every so often. I've had many a fun PM with Kjel, Rumad, Focht etc .
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 18:40   #35
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
Aryn - inactive i think
She's got PC problems at the moment. Over heating or something like that.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 18:45   #36
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

I wasnt sure if she was still sorting herself with housing or whatever in her new city .
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 19:26   #37
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Aryn was actually so kind to take a look at my thread on saturday, while ComradeRob again simply ignored things in it, as I assume from seeing him posting in it but not acting upon the forum rules violations.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 20:33   #38
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

I nominate myself for AD moderator.

Achilles = the win btw
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 21:14   #39
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
I nominate myself for AD moderator.
Yah, you'd be such a good choice for moderator. First thing you would do is ban me from forums i assume?
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 22:17   #40
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

I've asked several times that 1up members who insist on posting on AD should be denied defence myself included, especially when they ask retarted questions like who Pia is.
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Unread 4 Jul 2004, 23:52   #41
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

I have a social life on the weekends and I've just gotten back for the first time since friday evening. Sue me. Recently the majority of posters have been equally shit so I thought banning approximately 70% of AD might be a bit counter-active. Plus activity is the only way to get good posting. Creating good posters is a pretty impossible job for anyone, some people are just terminally shit, some people will never care and some people are put off by the sheer amount of mind-boggling crap posted on here. Harsh moderation with this few posters would effectively be closing down the forum. Finally the back-biting and hatred always makes the game more interesting.

In conclusion thanks for raising your concerns (seriously heh) and I'll start deleting the off-topic crap posts that add nothing to AD (ie posts saying hello, witty one-liners that a retarded mongoose could come up with, replies repeating the same thing with no new perspective and anything posting by dreadnought). If anyone thinks they'd enjoy modding AD I suppose you can pm me (or JJ if he's alive and remembers AD is here) and I'll either laugh myself senseless or attempt to get you appointed with a modicum of fuss.

PS As a general point I agree with hicks, asking who pia is proves you're a bit of an idiot to put it mildly.
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Unread 5 Jul 2004, 00:17   #42
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
I've asked several times that 1up members who insist on posting on AD should be denied defence myself included, especially when they ask retarted questions like who Pia is.
this is one of those rare occassions where I agree with you Hicks
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Unread 5 Jul 2004, 09:21   #43
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Re: Forum Moderation - Are they joking?

Though most ppl know who PiaZava is obviously, I think he referred to this:

PiaZava
Last Post:
I forgot to say goodbye
13 Aug 2003 16:53

Why the hell is she still listed as mod then?
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