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View Poll Results: Would you prefere
Old style construction / research / waves 37 21.14%
New style 61 34.86%
Old construction / research and new waves 19 10.86%
New construction / research and old waves 51 29.14%
Something else (post below) 7 4.00%
Voters: 175. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 18 Nov 2003, 18:44   #1
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Constructions / Research

A few little questions regarding the future of PA.

Please add comments here if you wish.
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Unread 18 Nov 2003, 19:24   #2
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Re: Constructions / Research

not keen on the way that constructions can be destroyed, crippling a planet - especially the way that a few small planets can apparently cripple a large one.

like the way they're done, but perhaps a little too vulnerable. also need to sort out the waves (jammers being useless).

research i think should have more choices in it, something like the civilization tree, but with some branches only being available to specific races, or cheaper for specific races. at the moment it's quite boring :P

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Unread 18 Nov 2003, 21:14   #3
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Re: Constructions / Research

I like the fact Research is free...I like the general idea of Constructions as it is...where you can build multiples of things.

I don't like the fact that Constructions get too expensive, and thus you can't realistically play a defensive game (in the way of building mines/finance centers to grow vs. getting roids).

People should be able to have more choice in how their planet goes along, and what "route" they take in the game. If I want to be a scanner, there should be benefits in a seperate branch of the tech tree that would change other features compared to planets that went for attacking/roiding etc.

The ability to lose Constructions in combat is highly annoying, yet overall a "good thing", though they could be a little harder to destroy (or a max on the number of them that can be destroyed) since they get damned expensive.

Scans as they are now, are pretty alright. Jammers are useless, but the scans and their setup is good. I would still like to see a 'galaxy scan' option (perhaps on the end of the scan branch) that can be configured to do multiple scans of different types simultaneously.

It would also be nice if there was an in-game feature for sending scans to someone (instead of c/p them into notepad, and dcc'ing it etc) in bulk...the fact they are stored for awhile and can be re-called is great, but could use even more flexibility
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Unread 18 Nov 2003, 21:44   #4
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Re: Constructions / Research

* scans are better (less accurate now), and everyone can afford them - good

* research is free, and the options are better than they were before. I would have liked a small reduction in research times though.

* constructions are working good as they are, but I agree that the loss in constructions for a defender is too high as it is. It takes at least 3-4 days to rebuild after a hard attack, and if a defender is waved he could be set back 2-3 weeks in construction. This destroys a bit of his ability to continue the game.

* All in all I think the new system is far better than the old, and gives more tactical choices and differences between the different players.

* It could be implemented differences between the races though, like:

- 1 race could get higher effect from scans (more info perhaps, or 1 xtra type)
- 1 race could benefit greater from mines (higher income or reduced cost)
- Reduced levels of research to get minimum travel time for a race (like 1 race could start 1 research level ahead of another in this branch -> this could also be done for other research branches as well)
- 1 race could have reduced production time or production cost for xtra factories
- 1 race could get let's say 1% xtra income for each finance scenter instead of 0,5%
- etc
----------
I posted new style, but I think some of the suggested changes could be implemented as well.
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Unread 18 Nov 2003, 23:57   #5
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Re: Constructions / Research

I like the old research and construction something bugs me about how it is now, not sure what - and it's not just that you can be decimated by multiple waves.

As for waves, change back the amps/distorters to how they used to be, but don't force people to buy scans - keep that bit how it is now.

I realise that I'm mixing and matching but it's just my opinion
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Unread 19 Nov 2003, 00:05   #6
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Re: Constructions / Research

Mixing and matching is good, this is why i put the vote, to find out what people liked before coding stuff... and i quite like the idea of not focing buying scans, but the old style amsp / jammers.
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Unread 19 Nov 2003, 13:38   #7
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Re: Constructions / Research

construction - keep it as is in pax
research keep as is in pax (free) but reduce research times
regarding waves and amps not bothered which way u do them
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Unread 19 Nov 2003, 14:10   #8
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Re: Constructions / Research

New style is good but:

* Surely there should be a cap on the cost of constructions at some point? With a few weeks to go in this round building anything has become a tad pointless.

* A bit of variation in what certain races can build as opposed to others would be nice.

* Research could be a bit faster I think. Maybe through increasing the bonus received from Research Centers; thereby forcing ppl who want fast tech to spend money on it. It'll mean more diversity as players focus on different areas.
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Unread 19 Nov 2003, 17:27   #9
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Re: Constructions / Research

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit
Mixing and matching is good, this is why i put the vote, to find out what people liked before coding stuff... and i quite like the idea of not focing buying scans, but the old style amsp / jammers.
the old style jammers were too expensive to be worthwhile. if people are to use them then they need to be made feasable
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Unread 19 Nov 2003, 20:41   #10
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Re: Constructions / Research

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
the old style jammers were too expensive to be worthwhile. if people are to use them then they need to be made feasable

Remove the Eonium component, and they're instantly more feasable.
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Unread 19 Nov 2003, 22:07   #11
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Re: Constructions / Research

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
Remove the Eonium component, and they're instantly more feasable.
is eonium used for *anything* these days? :P
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Unread 19 Nov 2003, 22:59   #12
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Re: Constructions / Research

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
is eonium used for *anything* these days? :P
Well, it's now an equal resource compared to metal and crystal, eg Ziks need more eonium roids than metal/crystal. They're also used in scans, constructions and covert-ops.
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Unread 20 Nov 2003, 18:17   #13
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Re: Constructions / Research

Now, heres a thought... linking the old and the new Const / Res styles together...

Some researches require certain constructions to be started and ofc you don't get some constructions without certain researches being done.... but, you can have like the current constructions, build more than one of, and possibly destrovable (that one is a bit grey thou, as if we bring back races, Cathaar won't be able to kill the structures)

Comments?
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Unread 20 Nov 2003, 23:27   #14
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Re: Constructions / Research

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit
Now, heres a thought... linking the old and the new Const / Res styles together...

Some researches require certain constructions to be started and ofc you don't get some constructions without certain researches being done.... but, you can have like the current constructions, build more than one of, and possibly destrovable (that one is a bit grey thou, as if we bring back races, Cathaar won't be able to kill the structures)

Comments?
Even better, let the Cathaar disable structures for a given period of time. Fits in nicely with the EMP 'freezing' stuff and also with their 'strategy'. Imagine a top player without a load of their Finance Centers
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Unread 21 Nov 2003, 00:34   #15
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Re: Constructions / Research

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit
Cathaar won't be able to kill the structures)

Comments?
give them a ship that can but is rubbish at shooting ships. hmm maybe freezing structures stops them working for a tick << any point to that?

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Unread 21 Nov 2003, 09:44   #16
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Re: Constructions / Research

Quote:
Originally Posted by Browolf
give them a ship that can but is rubbish at shooting ships. hmm maybe freezing structures stops them working for a tick << any point to that?

~browolf
just doing it for a tick wouldn't make any sense. Instead, depending on the number of ships, freeze them for a given period of time (a few ships may only freeze a structure for 1/2 ticks. Lots, and i mean lots, could take out quite a few structures for 6-12 ticks - they may need to limit this).
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Unread 21 Nov 2003, 15:41   #17
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Re: Constructions / Research

I think anyone with more than 100 structures would appreciate being attacked by a Cath.

I know I, for one, would rather not get income from x amount of Finance Centers for 6 ticks, instead of having them obliterated and losing scads of resources.
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Unread 21 Nov 2003, 17:02   #18
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Re: Constructions / Research

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
I think anyone with more than 100 structures would appreciate being attacked by a Cath.

I know I, for one, would rather not get income from x amount of Finance Centers for 6 ticks, instead of having them obliterated and losing scads of resources.
Hi Cochese.

Although not an expert on being a big planet in PaX (having retired), I expect that Finance Centres bring in quite a lot of income. Obviously, Cathaar's anti-structure ships would be a LOT more powerful than those of the other races (who kill structures), and perhaps 6 ticks is too short a time. Honestly, it was just a suggestion as to how races could be integrated into anti-structure attacks - I just wanted to try to eliminate bashing of smaller players by freezing their structures --> making it 6 ticks rather than 24.
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Unread 22 Nov 2003, 04:06   #19
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Re: Constructions / Research

traditionally, freezing gets you more "kills" per buck than actually killing, so while you might not loose the finance centres, being under attack enough to keep them not working would be really annoying :P

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Unread 23 Nov 2003, 01:18   #20
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Re: Constructions / Research

exactly imagine how screwed a top player would be if, against the odds, they lost a factory??? ouch...
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Unread 25 Nov 2003, 01:20   #21
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Re: Constructions / Research

I like the new research style the way it is now..

I also like the new constructions idea but I don't like how costly they become for a smaller player (someone with few roids)... and how much more afforable they are for people with a massive amount of roids.. Instead of linking the cost of constructions with the total number of structures it should perhaps be relative to the size of a planet.. because while having to build 60-70 structures over the course of the round for a tiny planet costs too much and has no payoff if they're getting attacked constantly.. while for the big players the total costs are virtually insignificant. My idea would be to have the cost of structures relative to the planets value and maybe even make salvage available from destroyed structures like with ships to offset the cost of building new ones if a planet has been bashed.

The idea of not having to buy scans is great but lose the distorters and amps and I'm happy..(or revert back to the old amps/jammers)
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Unread 14 Dec 2003, 13:57   #22
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Re: Constructions / Research

I hated the old Wave system what a waste of Resources and time to build them. Far easier the way it is now.
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Unread 14 Dec 2003, 23:36   #23
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Re: Constructions / Research

This works great in PaX
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 22:27   #24
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Re: Constructions / Research

new style just re-balance the research times :-)
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 22:33   #25
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Re: Constructions / Research

Re-balance how?
Last round there were some difficult choices to make when it came to researches- whether to get the next ship/wave technology, or whether to go for the Cargo Transfers, to make sure you were always going to get max resources, and I thought that was good (and I was xan, where everything took longer ).
Having an obvious path down the techtree was boring.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 23:50   #26
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Re: Constructions / Research

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYMM
Re-balance how?
Last round there were some difficult choices to make when it came to researches- whether to get the next ship/wave technology, or whether to go for the Cargo Transfers, to make sure you were always going to get max resources, and I thought that was good (and I was xan, where everything took longer ).
Having an obvious path down the techtree was boring.
i agree there, though other races had too much advantage above xan here.
rather would see a faster start researches and a slower end research, more then just now
and including a 'choose path as back in r4 etc.
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Unread 29 Jan 2004, 00:38   #27
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Re: Constructions / Research

Old construction / research and new waves
The way it was now with buildnings and stuff was just too anoying!
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Unread 3 Feb 2004, 14:23   #28
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Re: Constructions / Research

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonentity
Honestly, it was just a suggestion as to how races could be integrated into anti-structure attacks - I just wanted to try to eliminate bashing of smaller players by freezing their structures --> making it 6 ticks rather than 24.
g'day mate :P

you could always tie it up to a score/worth/roid (whichever) differential. Eg, say the base level for your structures to get stunned is 10 ticks. if your attacker was 4 times your size, then your structures would get stunned for 1/4 * 10 ticks (ie 2.5 ticks). If your attacker was 5 times larger, then it would be 2 ticks. but, if the defender was larger than the attacker, then the formula is reversed, ie: 1/4 *10 + 10 =12.5 ticks for an attacker 1/4 your size.

That should at least prove interesting for the very top planets, because if a newbie got a shot in, they'd be waiting for aaaaages to get their power back online (and thus letting everyone else catch up to them etc).

or then again, perhaps not...
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Unread 14 Feb 2004, 00:35   #29
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Re: Constructions / Research

What i wish for the next round of pa:
I'd like the r11 scans to stay. Thats the one thing i'd like to keep most of all.

If there should be lower eta when defending allies, then i think every player without an alliance should be able to share a jumpgate between 4-5 planets that accepts the jumpgate, so he could send defence to a few m8's with lower eta. The jumpgates could be able to be changed more rapidly then ppl can switch alliance, maybe closed for something like 24 hours before it could be opened again, and all jumpgates would have to be closed before joining a new alliance. And the jumpgate should be set on automatic by default, so that it would build a jumpgate with a defender/defended planet with a free jumpgate til all the jumpgates are in use. This way, new players that defend eachother, could end up sending defence with the lower eta, without even knowing that theres a jumpgate.

When it comes to blockers and amps, i liked the new system.
So i like for the blocker and amps to be buildt in constructions rather then be bought as waves. But ofcause there would need to be a way to take care of a planets blocker and amps. I think one possible way would be to keep the coops at some degree, and atleast make it possible to kill some of a planets blocker aslong as the coop planets amps/stealth-level is high enough, and maybe let the planet size matter a bit, but without making it impossible for big planets to stop a coop attemt from a small planet, and also make it possible for the big planets to get even at some of the smaller hackers

The reason i think about comparing amps/stealth-level against blocker/alert-level is because i would like it for coop planets to be able to stay big, and still be able to coop with full force. Maybe if it were possible to kill blockers and to temperary freeze some of an enemys planets amps, then maybe coop planets would use more energy on helping their alliance by freezing a certain amount of a scanplanets amps, killing some of an attackers ships to figure out milscans, instead of mostly stealing resources. And since the amps would not get killed, it wouldn't ruin the game for scanplanets, only making it more difficult or impossible to scan for a few ticks. For freezing amps there could be some sort of formula, where the amount of amps frozen on the scanplanet, would be based on the amp/stealth-level against the targets blocker/alert-level. Maybe my idea of being able to kill blockers and only somehow freeze the amps sounds a bit strange, but thats just because i always have liked to have enough amps while hating ppl with to much blocker for me.

This were only supposed to be a little notice of what i wanted changed, but i often have a problem with stopping writing in time. Atleast i edited out half of it before posting.
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Unread 17 Feb 2004, 18:33   #30
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Re: Constructions / Research

I Think we should stick with the new system for Construction/research, except there should be a cap on the cost of constructions because for us small planets its just too prohibitve to build constructions after a while!
Freezing structures would be a really good idea, it sucks aving your structures destroyed and having to wait sometimes almost a week just to get back to where you were!
The new system for scannng is good, keep it, but make it easier too scan gal mates, say ignoring the blockers for in-gal scans, this will help arranging in gal-defence and encourage things like gal-attacks again, which i really missed from previous rounds

Over all i think PAX was much better than most people thought, but it was still too hard for us little guys to get anywhere!
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Unread 19 Feb 2004, 20:19   #31
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Re: Constructions / Research

mmm i prefer the old style, but thats cos im to dumb to understand new style
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Unread 21 Feb 2004, 01:28   #32
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Re: Constructions / Research

old style const/res

by this i mean the really old ones.. when u forgo one thing if u get another.. remember that ?

this forced people to make choices.. changed the races, even tho u might have chosen emp.. you could have a differnt style of emp... etc
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Unread 2 Mar 2004, 09:37   #33
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Re: Constructions / Research

I think less luck early on is better - but other than that, the old system was fine.
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Unread 30 Mar 2004, 12:36   #34
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Re: Constructions / Research

Yeah the freezing idea is a good one...

A cap would be wise for that... And maybe buildings can get frozen like once a week or something? Cause even with a cap, if it's unfrozen, you just launch a new fleet and freeze em up again.. Would be rather nasty
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Unread 3 Apr 2004, 18:38   #35
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Re: Constructions / Research

oh yeah that would suck...

but freezin iz good shit!

destruction iz not!
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Unread 16 Apr 2004, 09:01   #36
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Re: Constructions / Research

I like new construction and research

I like the old scans(militiary scans and news scans) - so that way anyone can scan an attacker for what they are attacking, not needing the planet being attacked to be online.

I don't like to buy scans though. Have the old scans, but keep the current system where it just takes it out of your current resources when you perform a scan.
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