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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 10:57   #101
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
btw, 1 last comment. How are alliances supposed to take out the #1 alliance? By attacking them solo? if 5 alliances attack them solo (cause they all wanna take out #1) then you'd call it a block. If 5 alliances work together to do more structured attacks, then you'd call it a block aswell.
What you are ASKING the alliances to do, is NOT to try and take out the #1 alliance. Cause honnestly, you're THE STRONGEST alliance. Meaning, no alliance beneath you can singlehandedly win from you. I guess that's a compliment.
Theres a bit of a difference between saying "well all attack 1up", and "heres your target list this has been taken, you take whatever for your alliance wants and tell me". You are engaging in a co-ordinated strike on 1up, basically turning 3 alliances into 1, as they are no longer separate attacking entities, but instead 1 joint one. You are moaning about being unable to take 1up down by yourself, yet how exactly is 1up supposed to defend against this "co-operation" when it is itself is bigger than 1up, rather hypocritical of you.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 10:58   #102
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Re: And so it begins ...

I think it'd be sensible to look at pilkara stats before we come to any solid conclusions as to how bad an effect this block has as i'm sure we have one block claiming it's necessary, while it might be argued that Sid is underplaying his hand.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:00   #103
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game'
Theres a bit of a difference between saying "well all attack 1up", and "heres your target list this has been taken, you take whatever for your alliance wants and tell me". You are engaging in a co-ordinated strike on 1up, basically turning 3 alliances into 1, as they are no longer separate attacking entities, but instead 1 joint one. You are moaning about being unable to take 1up down by yourself, yet how exactly is 1up supposed to defend against this "co-operation" when it is itself is bigger than 1up, rather hypocritical of you.
er but getting bigger numbers than the other side is how you win PA.

and since when were coordinated (i.e. organised) strikes bad?

I'll look at the numbers as attacks come through thanks.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:02   #104
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game'
Your working in co-operation with mistu, how do you think they got 20 more members? Oh yeah they "merged" :/
Why do you post here. I thought HC frowned on regular peons like yourself from posting on the forums/
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:03   #105
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffle
Why do you post here. I thought HC frowned on regular peons like yourself from posting on the forums/
We finally figured that you were making such a twat of yourself it was hard to notice anyone else
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:03   #106
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
er but getting bigger numbers than the other side is how you win PA.
Activity of course has no relevance at all does it, just numbers how silly of me

Quote:
and since when were coordinated (i.e. organised) strikes bad?
I didnt say they were bad, the alliance HC's of all others did, when they all agreed to stay solo.

Quote:
I'll look at the numbers as attacks come through thanks.
Just because were outnumbered doesnt mean were outgunned, weve been taking far more losses over the last week, if you notice our roid growth is less than a third of what it was
.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:04   #107
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game'
Theres a bit of a difference between saying "well all attack 1up", and "heres your target list this has been taken, you take whatever for your alliance wants and tell me". You are engaging in a co-ordinated strike on 1up, basically turning 3 alliances into 1, as they are no longer separate attacking entities, but instead 1 joint one. You are moaning about being unable to take 1up down by yourself, yet how exactly is 1up supposed to defend against this "co-operation" when it is itself is bigger than 1up, rather hypocritical of you.
And when has
"heres your target list this has been taken, you take whatever for your alliance wants and tell me" taken place i might ask?
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:06   #108
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
We finally figured that you were making such a twat of yourself it was hard to notice anyone else
because I was the only one making a twat of myself. :/. Reconsider answering my question about whether i was the only problem, then bug me about being a twat.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:08   #109
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffle
And when has
"heres your target list this has been taken, you take whatever for your alliance wants and tell me" taken place i might ask?
What exactly do you think a joint MO/HC channel is for, sharing cookies?
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:09   #110
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game'
What exactly do you think a joint MO/HC channel is for, sharing cookies?
And who has said there has been such a channel. Seems like you 1up prpoganda kings are the only ones mentioning such a room.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:11   #111
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffle
And who has said there has been such a channel. Seems like you 1up prpoganda kings are the only ones mentioning such a room.
Shall i repeat what has already been said, "go ask any of the alliance HC's involved before coming here and acting dumb"
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:11   #112
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffle
because I was the only one making a twat of myself. :/. Reconsider answering my question about whether i was the only problem, then bug me about being a twat.
I'm not going to bother going through this again with you. All I will say is that it was your actions post kicking that shows you for the person you are. You wana take this any further you know which channels I'm in. Let's not mess this thread up any more
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood
mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:15   #113
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game'
Shall i repeat what has already been said, "go ask any of the alliance HC's involved before coming here and acting dumb"
As i see it, Kj himself has spoken up here and apparantelly, in 1up's fashion, post only what they need to say to make themselves look good. So I'm actually not looking dumb. And I'm not going to go ask any random alliance HC, as they won't bother to explain, or to anyone else for that matter.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:15   #114
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
I'm not going to bother going through this again with you. All I will say is that it was your actions post kicking that shows you for the person you are. You wana take this any further you know which channels I'm in. Let's not mess this thread up any more
The channels you are in are the ones I am banned in.

And the last time I botherd to ask HC or officers that same question, they refused to respond. So what does that tell you. Thanks to Tis for being the only person that bothered to talk to me about it.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:18   #115
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Re: And so it begins ...

I am astonished.

Synthetic_Sid was proposing a free-for-all round (as people can find on this thread). Also, he said here that one major problem with blocks is the exchange of memberlists. Now he complains that 3 alliances should have blocked just because they have hit the same alliance (shocking, 1Up is the #1 alliance, they have to expect to be hit most), while those 3 claim to have not blocked since they can still hit each other (isn't a no-hit-agreement between those alliances required to call it a block?). Also take a look at the alliance rankings ... even if such a block should exist you would just need to hit MISTU in order to disable their ability to gain the #1 spot - and MISTU's current chance to get to the top is extremly small already.

Given this situation I simply say that
a) what Sid claims to be a block is none
and
b) even if it would be a block it wouldn't justify a counterblock of the #1 alliance since it's only purpose seems to be levelling the playing field again (according to a few statements in this thread) - which is perfectly ok - since neither FAnG nor ROCK seem to have options on winning the round and MISTU is still struggling (just take a look at their performance history on the toolkit pages like sandmans or pilkara)

From these 2 conclusions I can say a few things:
- Sid fears to lose the #1 spot very soon
- Sid tries to draw attention away from 1Up so that they can play a bit more relaxed again
- Sid considers 1Up as not strong enough to become winning alliance of r11 by itself as he is actively seeking for a reason to find partners with this thread.

However, Sid, if YOU WANT TO block, just do it (in reference to your posting here). You don't need to justify yourself for blocking. One can only hope that no alliance gives in to what Sid claims and keeps on fighting the #1 (as it should always happen in a free-for-all round in order to keep the game interesting).

[EDIT] In Razorbacks comment I noticed that my saying #3 was not clear enough so I changed "become #1 alliance" to "become winning alliance of r11"

Last edited by Methedrine; 8 Jul 2004 at 11:55.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:31   #116
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methedrine
I am astonished.
Did you even read this thread or was this a random reply?

a) Sid said that they were working together since before tickstart - before ticks = block ?
b) Sid cant fear 1up wouldnt be strong enough to make it #1, they are already #1 and have been for awhile
c) If you give out targets to be hit and require all members to hit those targets exclusively or do retals, naturally it wouldnt matter if you are still free to hit your allies, since there are no fleets for that left anyways.
d) the concern is not alliances cooperating to take down the #1 but this "cooperation" formed pre round, not knowing who is #1 or who might aim for #1 (Fang planned to win this round as an example)
e) other alliances are hitting 1up aswell randomly or planned and noone is complaining about them, so the level of organisation is here the key.
f) your solution is abit utopian, hitting mistu brings no satisfaction and no change. Kill them and what? Will they magically stop harassing you ?
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:35   #117
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Re: And so it begins ...

Many people posting in this thread don't have a clue about the matters they're posting on, and those that do are probably being somewhat more circumspect with their opinions.

As always, people are free to draw their own conclusions. The constant arrogance of many posters in assuming that their opinion somehow matters to the outside world never ceases to amaze me - some posters seem to be under the impression that alliance HC (who, after all, spend many long hours considering exactly these issues) would be unable to form an accurate opinion without their 'advice'. The reality of the situation is that most HC know what's really going on, regardless of what anyone on AD says, and they base their decisions on their own experience, not what the latest troll to sign up a fake account has to say on the matter.

btw, this applies to people posting on all sides of the debate. Crying 'block' because three alliances happened to attack you in a short space of time is jumping to conclusions; denying the existence of a block just because nobody told you about it yet is equally foolish. As I said, the people who will actually decide the outcome of the situation have their own sources of information other than AD, and will decide in line with their alliances' best interests regardless of what AD opinion is.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:37   #118
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyConrad
Who is doing most of the trolling here? :/

I'm not pointing fingers but its sure as hell not LCH.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:37   #119
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game'
Activity of course has no relevance at all does it, just numbers how silly of me



I didnt say they were bad, the alliance HC's of all others did, when they all agreed to stay solo.



Just because were outnumbered doesnt mean were outgunned, weve been taking far more losses over the last week, if you notice our roid growth is less than a third of what it was
.
When I say 'numbers' i mean alliance players that can make a difference. It took hundreds to take down FLVT in r6, but we had enough people doing a good enough job to make their activity, ability, and organisation no longer a factor. I have no doubt 1up has an attacking punch way about its weight, and that they are the best alliance in the game - just because your alliance is better than everyone elses doesn't mean you will be given the win - other people want to win too. My main concern is not actually 1up at the mo, as they have people who are taking care of them and keeping them in reasonable check - my biggest worry is how everyone seems to horribly underestimate LCH, allows them to continue to fencesit, and get cheap roids while everyone kicks lumps out of each other.

You see Game the problem here is that you have 1up which (understandably) wants to underplay its hand (although you admit you are still growing) and has been outnumbered in terms of # of planets attacking it in a while, yet only comes out with a post at the first prospect of its first proper spannering. Hence why i'm looking at numbers before i decide who is talking shite.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:51   #120
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
I'm not pointing fingers but its sure as hell not LCH.
And I didnt point my fingers towards LCH either...
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 11:54   #121
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorback
Did you even read this thread or was this a random reply?
It was a reply to Sid's initial post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorback
a) Sid said that they were working together since before tickstart - before ticks = block ?
So Sid said so. If Sid says jump out of the window you would do it as well? Other alliance HC's have said they didn't block. And since nobody could so far prove the alliances assumed to have blocked are avoiding or did avoid each other (and thus exchanged coordinates at a very early point, during protection or even before ticks) I do not consider it as a block. A block works as one united force, which means you don't hit your partners. Anyways, time (and for example scans) will tell whether there was a block formed or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorback
b) Sid cant fear 1up wouldnt be strong enough to make it #1, they are already #1 and have been for awhile
I agree that my wording might not have been suitable for what I wanted to express with saying #3. Since you seem to have a problem understanding it I rephrased it in my original posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorback
c) If you give out targets to be hit and require all members to hit those targets exclusively or do retals, naturally it wouldnt matter if you are still free to hit your allies, since there are no fleets for that left anyways.
The point of your point c is? You are describing common alliance organisation here and to my knowledge that is nothing special. Feel free to enlighten me more about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorback
d) the concern is not alliances cooperating to take down the #1 but this "cooperation" formed pre round, not knowing who is #1 or who might aim for #1 (Fang planned to win this round as an example)
First it was a block, now it got reduced to a cooperation, interesting to watch your wording here, Razorback. However, I do agree that it would be a sad thing for the game if a cooperation or block would have been formed just for the aim to destroy one alliance - however, as I noticed in my previous threads and in a few others, it is especially 1Up and FAnG members which seem to be unable to behave in public and thus create a lot of disliking towards themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorback
e) other alliances are hitting 1up aswell randomly or planned and noone is complaining about them, so the level of organisation is here the key.
Or, from a different point of view, the level of complaining is the key. 2 of those 3 named alliances have ruined round 10.5 with an overpowered block, now you just throw in an alliance with a lot of members as a third partner and try to create some sympathy for the #1 alliance, drawing a picture of 1Up being holy knights in shiny white armour which are opposing a huge big bad evil enemy. This somehow reminds me on the cold war back in those days since it worked completely the same there, propaganda-wise. One side creates a foe image and tries to get as many people on their side as possible in order to overwhelm the chosen one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorback
f) your solution is abit utopian, hitting mistu brings no satisfaction and no change. Kill them and what? Will they magically stop harassing you ?
It is actually not utopian, it is one option. I think 1Up's aim is to win round 11, thus they would just need to eliminate all possible threats to the #1 rank. There are currently only 3 threats:
1) LCH
2) [VsN] if they have support from other alliances
3) MISTU if they have support from other alliances

Thus you would need to hit LCH primarily, and if MISTU or [VsN] get support you hit those 2 specific alliances in order to keep them on distance to yourself, size and score wise that is.
If you think it is utopian then it simply is because you consider it as utopian, after all fiction will always be fiction if you don't try to make it real.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 12:09   #122
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Re: And so it begins ...

If 1up don't counter the MISTU block threat (if it really does exist) they risk getting spannered - MISTU's determination to go out for 1up (it really seems personal between them) has locked them into combat they probably will never be able to get out of - if it really is personal, it would suggest that this is a more fury/xanadu type fight to the death where the loathing is pretty much open for all to see, which is probably the biggest problem in all this rather than the block.

LCH's position is currently neutral in this, and they're clearly going for cheap roids - i would in their position. I for one doubt they'll intervene unless it means one of MISTU or the 1up group gets too powerful for their liking.
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Last edited by lokken; 8 Jul 2004 at 12:16.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 12:25   #123
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
LCH's position is currently neutral in this, and they're clearly going for cheap roids - i would in their position. I for one doubt they'll intervene unless it means one of MISTU or the 1up group gets too powerful for their liking.
It keeps suprising me how many people know more about alliance politics from an alliance than the HC from the alliance in question
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 12:37   #124
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
If you honestly think this is the easy route - you might want to try being a 1up member for 2/3 days. I suspect you might not think it's the easy ride you are insinuating.
oh ffs jeez get a life man for 1 your in the #1 alliance so ppl are more focused on you, and basicly we all suffer from the same.
Now to get to the posts, mistu doesnt hit up1 planets alone THATS what up1 does trying to avoid alliances im so sick and tired of the whining, i bet we get as much inomming as you do so stfu and fight instead of try to form a justified 'counter block' where there is no block in the first place only in your imagination.
besides how come you gain roids and not loose any if you get hit by 3 alliances ??? and dont come with the crap because we defend.
if there was 3 allainces hitting you that would mean basicly that about 200 planets are attacking up1 now again explain to me how come you only gain roids and do not loose any so get a clue ffs and dont act like your such mistreated and the fight is unfairly and as i said before mistu hits whole gals not only up1 (i bet ill get the answer on this : you see that makes it xx less planets that hit up1 so my assupmtion is wrong).
Thats why i was at start so sceptical towards the proposal made by up1 as soon as you seem to be loosing and cant cope it anymore eg activity dropping etc etc you gonna be needing something to justify making a block.
so far from what ive seen untill now is trying to get that justification.

To TK youre just a lamer yourself dude, never did mistu have agreements with anyone, id better check your own agenda dude.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 12:41   #125
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitros
It keeps suprising me how many people know more about alliance politics from an alliance than the HC from the alliance in question
well lets see - LCH avoid major confrontation like the plague, I get told that LCH avoid it like the plague, and keep going for cheap roids - so i think it was a reasonable interpretation.

Unless LCH want to say they've got a partnership in all this and say something to the contrary?
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 12:46   #126
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
well lets see - LCH avoid major confrontation like the plague, I get told that LCH avoid it like the plague, and keep going for cheap roids - so i think it was a reasonable interpretation.

Unless LCH want to say they've got a partnership in all this and say something to the contrary?
read this to answer your question

I didn't know that NOT posting all day long to a lot of the b*llsh*t posts I read here is the same as avoiding the confrontation like the plague.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 12:48   #127
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by paeooke
To TK youre just a lamer yourself dude, never did mistu have agreements with anyone, id better check your own agenda dude.
Just because your HC decided to keep you out of the loop doesn't mean you know what's going on mate :/

I wouldn't have minded so much if 2 alliances had cooperated for a short space of time until we were knocked back down past them to #3 or something, and then all agreements had been ceased.

But 3 alliances, with a solid agreement (assuming all Sid says is correct - I'm not branding anyone with the Blocking-Pointy-Stick yet until the HC of the respective alliances give a proper post denying or confirming it) on one alliance is simply bullying and cowardly.

Edit: This post isn't intended to be whiney and self-pitying. It's more intended to show any alliances who choose to block first that they're taking great steps at killing the game.


PS: Don't turn my posts from an opinion on what alliances do, into me moving alliances from MISTU to 1up. As much as I'd like to talk about myself on here all day, that isn't what this thread is about.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 12:54   #128
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Re: And so it begins ...

I have to say that while reading this the first thing that strikes me is that the sole purpose of this thread is to offer 1up a get out clause on their "playing alone" promise.

Now yes maybe MISTU/ROCK/FANG are playing together, yes maybe they had agreements before hand to do so and have been doing so from the start BUT that doesnt mean you have to then stoop to their level to counteract it. After all you were perfectly ok with 1up being a relative failure before the round so dont let the fact that you have been a 'success' polute your beliefs. Have some balls and stick to your principles, you might lose because of it but atleast your going to be respected by the community for your actions. If you back down and block yourself your just giving the ok for everyone else to turn around and decide to also block .

If this isnt a pre planned block mind you I really dont see the problem with it, while i've always been anti block i've always stated that its more the pre planned, no specific goal except to stiffle the game blocks that are the problem. Blocks formed that are short term with the goal to take down an alliance much bigger than them really arent a problem as long as theres critrea laid down for when the goals met and as soon as its met the block breaks, after all without such blocks the game actually stagnates just as much as having pre arranged blocks. Being #1 1up has to expect alliances to work together to try and dislodge them, just like would happen if the #1 alliance was LCH, MISTU, ROCK, FANG, ND ect
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 12:58   #129
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Re: And so it begins ...

Well done to MISTU, FAnG and ROCK, seriously, I dont care how much you outnumber 1up, you all have the balls to hit the top alliance, with little benefit to ROCK and FAnG, as neither of them stands a chance of winning the round.

1up need to shut up moaning and fight back, as a solo alliance, or everything they previously said, as I expected, would be a lie. You can claim different, but you said you could handle FAnG/MISTU. FM at full strength is a far tougher challenge than FMR, with F and R being low in the ranks. In fact, you might not even bother worrying about ROCK.

Now is the chance to stand up and be counted 1up. Are you good enough to win this round, alone? You've had it easy so far, its about time you had to fight for your win
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:00   #130
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Re: And so it begins ...

Something to consider.

If MISTU/ROCK/FANG/Vision/LCH/EVERYONE ELSE are hitting 1up ? Just who is Sid going to ally with ?

Someone isn't telling the whole truth about their relationship with 1up......

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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:01   #131
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Re: And so it begins ...

First I heard if this so have checked just in case I was left out of the loop:

[12:40] <Fork> btw
[12:40] <Fork> have we got a joint HC channel/attack channel with Rock and Fang
[12:40] <Rimmerz|asleep> no
[12:40] <James|work> Nope.
[12:40] <Fork> as Sid is claiming?
[12:40] <Fork> hmmz
[12:40] <Irena|work> nope
[12:40] <James|work> We don't have any of the sh*t that Sid is claiming.
[12:40] <Irena|work> hes pokin in dark


Same old lame flame I'm afraid. Most ppl hopefully aint going to fall for it as are used to it now.

Yawn
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:03   #132
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
read this to answer your question

I didn't know that NOT posting all day long to a lot of the b*llsh*t posts I read here is the same as avoiding the confrontation like the plague.
Sorry, i was being flamed for claiming you weren't allied to anyone i.e. you weren't involved in this whatsoever and avoiding confrontation, and probably wouldn't do so unless your position was threatened.

I apologise for being totally correct on the matter and promise not to write such scandalous posts again.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:07   #133
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by paeooke
Blindingly insightful type stuff
I think you might need to get off your high horse for a moment young man. I never whinged, whined or anything that resembled it. I addressed a point made by Assassin and explained that being in 1up was far from being an "easy ride" - it, in fact, requires dedication, activity and a need to see things for the greater good (in this case the alliance as a whole).

I for one am happy with the way things have turned out. We've lost roids and had more incoming that nyone can think about and we're still on top. I'd like to say well done to the people who put the work in.

And I'd ask you to keep your special turn of mind numbingly stupid phrase to yourself til you can figure out what the grown ups mean when they talk
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:13   #134
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by F0rk
Logs of stuff

[12:40] <Fork> btw
[12:40] <Fork> have we got a joint HC channel/attack channel with Rock and Fang
[12:40] <Rimmerz|asleep> ofc
[12:40] <James|work> sure but let's not tell them about it
[12:40] <Fork> as Sid is claiming?
[12:40] <Fork> hmmz
[12:40] <Irena|work> hehehe
[12:40] <James|work> Sid is always right, damn his uber intel
[12:40] <Irena|work> hes pokin some hot chick


Logs > *
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<@JBG> by the way is mazzelaar a community account that everyone in 1up logs into when they're feeling angry?

Quote:
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mazzelaar has always reminded me of a hungry hungry hippo. Except instead of eating marbles he just bites the heads off new AD posters
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:16   #135
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I wouldn't have minded so much if 2 alliances had cooperated for a short space of time until we were knocked back down past them to #3 or something, and then all agreements had been ceased.

But 3 alliances, with a solid agreement (assuming all Sid says is correct - I'm not branding anyone with the Blocking-Pointy-Stick yet until the HC of the respective alliances give a proper post denying or confirming it) on one alliance is simply bullying and cowardly.

Edit: This post isn't intended to be whiney and self-pitying. It's more intended to show any alliances who choose to block first that they're taking great steps at killing the game.


PS: Don't turn my posts from an opinion on what alliances do, into me moving alliances from MISTU to 1up. As much as I'd like to talk about myself on here all day, that isn't what this thread is about.
You have an interesting opinion, TomKat.

Let's go and assume what Sid claims is correct and play around with it (data taken from Sandman's in PT 472):

FAnG and ROCK hardly match 1Up, score-wise. Their combined score is roughly 98.5 million, whilest 1Up is there at 102.5 million. FAnG and ROCK together have a size of 72.5k roids, while 1Up is holding 84.7k. FAnG and ROCK together have a combined member count of 173 people facing a 98 people strong 1Up. On average size it's FAnG/ROCK ~419 to 1Up 865, on average score it's 569.5k to 1.05m. This would mean it takes 2 members from FAnG/Rock to hit 1 member of 1Up, effectively reducing the amount of hitable planets by 50% to 173/2 ~= 86. Considering it is required to hit full galaxies this means they can hit 8-9 galaxies, maybe 10. Assuming there are 3 1Up members in each of those galaxies, it comes down to a maximum of 30 1Up members they can hit, while the other way round a 1Up member could theoretically hit 1.5 to 2 FAnG/Rock members. Assuming there are 6 FAnG/Rock members per galaxy 1Up would still be able to hit (98*1.5) / 10 = 14.7, 14-15 of their gals, roughly (84 - 90 members). Imho this is a clear strategic advantage towards 1Up.
Now if we take MISTU as a 3rd force into the calculations... 1.25 MISTU members can hit one 1Up member, thus (93/1.25) / 10 = 7,44, 7 to 8 galaxies MISTU could hit, adding up to a total of 21 to 24 additional 1Up members under attack.
Total people under attack:
15-17 1Up galaxies with a maximum of 45 to 51 members out of 98 (or in relative values: max. 52% of the alliance).
14-15 FAnG/Rock/MISTU galaxies with a maximum of 126 to 135 people out of 266 (or in relative values: max. 50.7% of the assumed block).
Now adding up other alliances hitting here and there, which would give FAnG/Rock/MISTU more incoming (because smaller planets, thus attackable by more people from the lower rankings) than 1Up (big = scaring away factor) this would still come down to a pretty fair fight.

But then again, it is all theory which fails a bit due to a lack of coordinates, and thus a lack of a complete "universe map" as the mentor team calls it.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:17   #136
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
[12:40] <Fork> btw
[12:40] <Fork> have we got a joint HC channel/attack channel with Rock and Fang
[12:40] <Rimmerz|asleep> ofc
[12:40] <James|work> sure but let's not tell them about it
[12:40] <Fork> as Sid is claiming?
[12:40] <Fork> hmmz
[12:40] <Irena|work> hehehe
[12:40] <James|work> Sid is always right, damn his uber intel
[12:40] <Irena|work> hes pokin some hot chick


Logs > *
Well it's a damn site more proof than you guys are offering the other way round, eh?

You ask for denials, you get one, then rubbish it. Why am I not surprised.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:19   #137
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Re: And so it begins ...

Well, LCH/VsN wont block with 1up so let it all roll untill either MISTU or 1up is dead closing the thread would also been cool
 
Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:22   #138
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev
Well it's a damn site more proof than you guys are offering the other way round, eh?

You ask for denials, you get one, then rubbish it. Why am I not surprised.

Aha - these would be the logs that Sid published and were confirmed by Kjeldoran?

I can see why thats exactly the same as F0rks random logs from the mistu command channel. You really like to pick fights don't you
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Quote:
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:28   #139
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Aha - these would be the logs that Sid published and were confirmed by Kjeldoran?
After informing myself a bit about this "Kjeldoran" I wonder how one can take his word as a confirmation of stuff? He isn't in any position to state anything related to FAnG according to his forum signature.
Is it just me, or is 1Up just trying to trick everyone into believing their claims?

[EDIT] This damn confused-smiley isn't working
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:29   #140
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Re: And so it begins ...

10 points for Methedrine

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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:30   #141
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methedrine
The point of your point c is? You are describing common alliance organisation here and to my knowledge that is nothing special. Feel free to enlighten me more about this.
You were claiming its just a cooperation, my point C proves that an extended attack cooperation infact is an alliance if you set enough rules and preparations in it both start to mean the same.


Quote:
First it was a block, now it got reduced to a cooperation, interesting to watch your wording here, Razorback. However, I do agree that it would be a sad thing for the game if a cooperation or block would have been formed just for the aim to destroy one alliance - however, as I noticed in my previous threads and in a few others, it is especially 1Up and FAnG members which seem to be unable to behave in public and thus create a lot of disliking towards themselves.
You might notice i used " " and was using your phrase- About Fang members and 1up members i cant comment since im neither of both.

Quote:
Or, from a different point of view, the level of complaining is the key. 2 of those 3 named alliances have ruined round 10.5 with an overpowered block, now you just throw in an alliance with a lot of members as a third partner and try to create some sympathy for the #1 alliance, drawing a picture of 1Up being holy knights in shiny white armour which are opposing a huge big bad evil enemy. This somehow reminds me on the cold war back in those days since it worked completely the same there, propaganda-wise. One side creates a foe image and tries to get as many people on their side as possible in order to overwhelm the chosen one.
The 3rd alliance (Rock) hasnt denied the accusations yet and we all still hold our breath for the proof (including myself). Undisputable fact (if you remove your tainted sunglasses) 1up so far has kept their ground even against "the odds" and against a possible cooperation. 1up was picked on for going solo and for proposing that, i havent yet seen one of the loudmouths. i.e. rumad and others apologizing for their missinterpretation considering half the round is nearly over.


Quote:
It is actually not utopian, it is one option. I think 1Up's aim is to win round 11, thus they would just need to eliminate all possible threats to the #1 rank. There are currently only 3 threats:
1) LCH
2) [VsN] if they have support from other alliances
3) MISTU if they have support from other alliances
No shit sherlock. 1up wants to win the round, they said so from day 1. However you missinterpret the universe abit. Every alliance or cooperation of alliances can be a threat for the #1 alliance, no matter if the #2 or #3 are allies, friends, neutrals or enemies. If you get most of the beating someone else can overtake you surfing in the silent waters.

Quote:
Thus you would need to hit LCH primarily, and if MISTU or [VsN] get support you hit those 2 specific alliances in order to keep them on distance to yourself, size and score wise that is.
If you think it is utopian then it simply is because you consider it as utopian, after all fiction will always be fiction if you don't try to make it real.
Thats not entirely correct and show you have not spend must time controlling or planning for a successfull alliance (no personal dig). Attacking the strongest enemy is not the easiest or best way to win, there are many more and many easier options to deal with such a problem. Alot also depends on what your enemies and the rest of the universe do. Wasting your breath and strength on an equally strong enemy while you are primarily hit by 5 other alliances would certainly not bring much gain for you. Especially not if the #2 doesnt reply and just defends and attacks someone weaker in return. Just to name 1 example.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:31   #142
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheACE
NOW i am damn sure: i make FAR better posts then this guy.

Cant u just talk to ppl in NORMAL words?? Arent u compitent in talking??? or r u just plain stupid??

i would give u a hint: STFU, it is better for all of us
Read his post again.
Now read your answer.
Actually, in my opinion, the incompetent is not him.
To Sid: Some of your members should not be allowed to post.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:31   #143
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methedrine
After informing myself a bit about this "Kjeldoran" I wonder how one can take his word as a confirmation of stuff? He isn't in any position to state anything related to FAnG according to his forum signature.
Is it just me, or is 1Up just trying to trick everyone into believing their claims?

[EDIT] This damn confused-smiley isn't working
He has forgotton to change his forums Signature - he is now back in the enviable seat of FAnG Planetarion HC.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:39   #144
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
I think you might need to get off your high horse for a moment young man. I never whinged, whined or anything that resembled it. I addressed a point made by Assassin and explained that being in 1up was far from being an "easy ride" - it, in fact, requires dedication, activity and a need to see things for the greater good (in this case the alliance as a whole).

I for one am happy with the way things have turned out. We've lost roids and had more incoming that nyone can think about and we're still on top. I'd like to say well done to the people who put the work in.

And I'd ask you to keep your special turn of mind numbingly stupid phrase to yourself til you can figure out what the grown ups mean when they talk
lol gast ik denk dat ik ouder ben dan jouw dus ga niet fftjes met dat soort gezeik beginnen
btw it wasnt all specifically pointed at you so if you take it personally then do so not my problem .
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:40   #145
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Aha - these would be the logs that Sid published and were confirmed by Kjeldoran?

I can see why thats exactly the same as F0rks random logs from the mistu command channel. You really like to pick fights don't you
Ah sorry, I must have missed the announcement confirming KJ as MISTU HC and spokesperson. You've had 2 actual MISTU HC say now that it isn't true, and logs for the rest - yet the 1up propoganda wagon rumbles onward.

And it's not picking fights, I just hate to see all this one sided stuff from a vast majority of 1up posters. If you accept logs on one side, then accept them on the other - at least try to give an appearance of objectivity.

(Hmm, it always does seem to be you I end up quoting - it's nothing personal and it's not just you )
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:41   #146
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methedrine
After informing myself a bit about this "Kjeldoran" I wonder how one can take his word as a confirmation of stuff? He isn't in any position to state anything related to FAnG according to his forum signature.
Is it just me, or is 1Up just trying to trick everyone into believing their claims?

[EDIT] This damn confused-smiley isn't working
You are wrong there, KJ is back in fang hc for pa.
Furthermore your investigation of stats bears one major flaw, attacking takes lesser fleets then defending. While attacks on 3 alliances + randoms might do the same damage it would spread the damage over multiple alliances = lesser impact on the whole. A focussed efford damages only 1 alliance and kills off single planets and reduces significantly the overall strenght of one alliance. (partly the cause why most blockwars are decided once 1 or 2 alliances of a block crumble opening the strenght gap even wider). You forgot aswell the amount of Fleets, 1up has 300 fleets max while any block has up to 900 fleets. This gives you far more flexibility especially with different targetclasses and no ships firing "all" anymore.
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:43   #147
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazzelaar
Aha - these would be the logs that Sid published and were confirmed by Kjeldoran?

I can see why thats exactly the same as F0rks random logs from the mistu command channel. You really like to pick fights don't you
confirmed yes, but confirmed that it wasnt the whole thing that was said and only in the interest of your alliance and to make beleive so go figure your so right
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:44   #148
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev
Ah sorry, I must have missed the announcement confirming KJ as MISTU HC and spokesperson. You've had 2 actual MISTU HC say now that it isn't true, and logs for the rest - yet the 1up propoganda wagon rumbles onward.

And it's not picking fights, I just hate to see all this one sided stuff from a vast majority of 1up posters. If you accept logs on one side, then accept them on the other - at least try to give an appearance of objectivity.
So let me get this right:

We have logs confirmed by someone who can only be described as "hostile" to 1up.

You have logs only to be confirmed by the people who actually said them and yourself who, incidentally, was not in the channel at the time of the conversation.

And you're the objective one, go figure :/
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Quote:
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:45   #149
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Re: And so it begins ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methedrine
This would mean it takes 2 members from FAnG/Rock to hit 1 member of 1Up

Are you playing this round?

If so, you should be aware that the ship stats make it pretty easy for a smaller planet to hit a larger one, assuming no external defence. This is where the numbers game comes into play - the side with more members has more available fleets, whereas the smaller side has fewer fleets. The problem for top alliances isn't the actual existance of fleets capable of defending, it's the fact that each member has only 3 fleet slots with which to defend against a potential 5 classes of incoming (assuming nobody attacks). Add fakes and waved attacks into the picture and it should start to become clearer.

This contrasts with past rounds where it was almost impossible for smaller planets to hit larger ones, so I can understand why you posted what you did. However this round it's just simply not true. 200 planets with 500k value will be able to out-manoeuvre 100 planets with 1mil value each quite easily, as the 100-member alliance will quickly run out of fleet slots.

Since your entire post was based on the formula of requiring equal amounts of value for attacking and defending, your entire post is, unforunately, fatally flawed. It's decent effort at bringing some objective statistical analysis to bear on the situation, but unfortunately far too simplistic

I could go in-depth on the mathematics behind this, with huge examples illustrating my point, but I'm going to hope that you get it and therefore I don't need to spend 30 minutes writing a huge post
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Unread 8 Jul 2004, 13:45   #150
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Re: And so it begins ...

only thing I'm certain of after all this is that spacecookie is a complete idiot...same drivel every post he makes

"why dont you get a life bla bla bla more incoherent jabber yadda yadda yadda flame someone and think im funny yadda yadda yadda bla bla bla"
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