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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 01:04   #101
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk100
And once again I will write what I have written quite some time. If I have broken the rules then I should be deleted...

cbk
It amuses me vastly that you came here expecting sympathy from people I can only assume you believed to be blindy anti-authority, and had it blow up in your face in such an absolute fashion. Well played, the scale of cockup here is monumental.

You're not going to get any sympathy because you broke the EULA. The fact that you haven't been deleted doesn't change that fact. You knowingly abused a game bug to gain an unfair advantage over other players in the universe, and by the sounds of it had absolutely no intention of informing PA Team of the possibility of the exploit you were using. That you still have your account is a blessing, and one that I probably wouldn't afford you (along with everyone else on this forum by the looks of it) if I were in the arbiter's place, so can you possibly explain just what your problem is without resorting to 'meh meh meh manual'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Bollocks.
Sums it up nicely <3
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 01:08   #102
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

I can't believe I actually read this entire pothole of whining crap.
cbk, kindly stfu, you found a limit, then found a way around that limit, which was not intended, and therefor a bug by definition (read up the definition of a bug as posted by King Cress), and therefor you cheated. The only reason why you've not been closed is not because PA HQ decided you did not cheat, but because they decided that closing your accounts ("your" as in "all those accounts in your galaxy that participated in this bug abuse") was not an adequate punishment for a comparably small bug abuse.
Quite frankly, after reading all of the whining bullsh!t from your end and furthermore reading this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk100
When the rules are so clear as you claim they are why haven't they then not just closed me? You simply claim that I have broken the rules and if it is so then I should be deleted... that can't be discussed.
(...)
if I have cheated then the rules says that I should be deleted...
(...)
and if I cheated then close me... how hard can that be?
(...)
If I have broken the rules then I should be deleted...
I couldn't think of any reason why anyone in PA HQ should still put up with the entire matter or would not have the itch in the finger on the red button to give you the punishment you're asking for, even though it's not necessary.
It was a small bug, yet it was a bug.
Just because you can get hanged (or electrocuted or whatever) for causing another person's death means that you WILL hang, though.

Now, kindly stfu and quit the whining. You're making me sick.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 02:15   #103
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

agreed with xontas ..

u should be thankful cbk
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 02:18   #104
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

You've made yourself look like a moron here cbk.

The argument "it doesn't say it in the manual" isn't valid at all.

Say, for instance, you found a way to repeatedly order loads of ships in a tick, for the same amount of resources. Of course, there's no small print going "you may not do this". But anyone with an ounce of common sense will realise that's exploiting a bug and cheating. Which is what you've done.

Stop whining and demanding Karmulian resign. Face it, you aren't going to be a top gal anymore. That's what happens when you abuse bugs to get to the top.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 02:26   #105
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk100
Plz don't post any reply to this post unless you have read EVERYTHING carefully and I don't want any flaming or unserious posts in this thread. THIS IS TO BE TAKEN VERY SERIOUS!!!

cbk
What is to be taken very serious?
Your galaxy's lack of common sense?
I mean, you even see your own galaxy mates admitting on your own galaxy forums.
Well done cbk.

Your slogsn this round something like: "Too much was never enough, tear it up and watch it fall." ?
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 03:09   #106
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Serious loss of pram toys here?
Cbk, your arguments are a load of shash.
Let's see shall we?

"I broke no rules"

Well, just look at the EULA and it seems that you did, indeed, break a rule.

"I broke no rules because my planet is still open"

From my short time as an admin i can say that the stated punishment is generally the maximum punishment, or just a simple guideline for admins to use. The fact that you haven't been closed is leniency on the part of the admins, and hence is a stupid thing to use in your argument.

"but karm lied and is evil"

It seems that Karm inadvertantly misled you, for which he has since apologised.

"But karm gave me an official apology"

interesting to note that after relying soley on the 'fact' that he lied for so many posts after the apology, you then rely on the apology to defend yourself.

"PAteam are liars and should be replaced"

Well how many times have we heard *this* one before? Although i have to admit, your failure to get backing from virtually anyone on the forums is almost one of a kind!

In conclusion, your blind denial of facts is rivalled only by that of the former iraqi information minister. Have you ever thought of going into politics?

"there are no rules here, never!"
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 03:25   #107
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Cbk, rather than waste mine and everyone elses time repeating your inane and non-sensical drivel I'll just get straight to my point.

You are a disgrace. You represent everything that is wrong the way this game is played. I'm sorry Karmulian didn't delete you. I wonder if his decision, could he make it now, would be different. I would hope so. You have a flagrant disregard for this community and for the hundreds of others your childish behaviour affects.

Your alliance should be ashamed to have you as a member. The game should be ashamed to have you as a player. I hope that some day PATeam finds itself in the position to tell you that your money is no good here.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 04:58   #108
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

man, If I really cared I could go find a list of the changes made to PaX, I remember spinner clearly stating many times that there was going to be a limit on the fund, mainly to keep those tiny cov-op people from ranking in the top 15 by saving funds all round lol, but the fact is there was a limit.

As people have stated, the limit was imposed on the game. You found a way around that, personally, I think they were lenient to just delete the money and not close you all. There was a situation like this last round. Where in the manual did it say that you could not return your ships instantly? It didn't, but by doing so you broke a rule of the game, and planets found to be abusing this bug were closed. Whether it was in the manual or not is of no importance.

Get a life cbk, you tried to cheat, you were caught, face the consequences.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 06:06   #109
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

cbk,

If there's one thing I've learned in law school, it's that the people around me exploit the rules, circumvent them through technicalities, and generally act like scumbags... and they plan to go on to become wealthy because of it.

Regardless of whether or not there are written rules defining every specific violation in the game, you knew that you were committing a moral wrong. You knew you were exploiting a bug for your own benefit... you even went so far as to brag about it.

I play PA because of the community, as do many of my friends. As a community, we have a responsibility to each other to act appropriately. Just because you can argue "it wasn't explicitly stated!" does not give you the right to morally wrong the rest of the community.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 07:29   #110
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

I didnt bother to read your useless thread as it was horrible and pointless.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 07:38   #111
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

cbk.. m8 damn...

I understand your furious reaction on PA-Team. I've experienced you in speedround, and you are damn good in finding ways around the system. Remember, exiling people in your galaxy, and let them join later. Or donate resources to 1 person, wait a tick so he is bigger in score. Donate it back to the fund, and donate the fund to a bigger player, to end #1. That's how you won the speedround finals as planet. Finding ways around the system.

On a personal note I say, way the go! I was scan/cov op planet this round. And intended to donate all to the gal fund, to be big at the end. I was very pissed, and even made a post on the boards when I saw the limit was 25mil. I checked the manual and it wasn't there, which made me even more pissed. I soon found out there was a way around it. The way you described. As i'm not playing to serious, I decided not to use this exploit of the system. Imho, a LEGAL exploit, both virtual and in RL there exist these exploits, and as long as it ain't covered by the rules, you shouldn't be punished for it. Imho, that counts for every exploit. The moment PA-Team knew about this exploit, the should make a clear post, let all players know it shouldn't be done. If you had done it afterwards, your account should be deleted within 2 seconds. But punishing people for an exploit, before it was taken into the manual is imho wrong. To bad Since I think they don't overthink this dicision.

A totall other thing, if PA-Team didn't know after 1 week this exploit could have been used, they must have been blind. More used it. 1 quick post telling people the limit was 25mil, and people shouldn't donate more was nuff.
If it is a bug.. I'm programmer myself, and i gotta think about it. The design says, 25mil is the max of the fund. If the coder, codes it wrong, it's a failure of the coder, not of the code, since the code is working. But almost every "bug" is a failure of the coder not of the program itself. Therefor I would say "Yes", but since it wasn't covered in the rulez, should you be punished? NO!
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 07:46   #112
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Thunderball
cbk.. m8 damn...

I understand your furious reaction on PA-Team. I've experienced you in speedround, and you are damn good in finding ways around the system. Remember, exiling people in your galaxy, and let them join later. Or donate resources to 1 person, wait a tick so he is bigger in score. Donate it back to the fund, and donate the fund to a bigger player, to end #1. That's how you won the speedround finals as planet. Finding ways around the system.

On a personal note I say, way the go! I was scan/cov op planet this round. And intended to donate all to the gal fund, to be big at the end. I was very pissed, and even made a post on the boards when I saw the limit was 25mil. I checked the manual and it wasn't there, which made me even more pissed. I soon found out there was a way around it. The way you described. As i'm not playing to serious, I decided not to use this exploit of the system. Imho, a LEGAL exploit, both virtual and in RL there exist these exploits, and as long as it ain't covered by the rules, you shouldn't be punished for it. Imho, that counts for every exploit. The moment PA-Team knew about this exploit, the should make a clear post, let all players know it shouldn't be done. If you had done it afterwards, your account should be deleted within 2 seconds. But punishing people for an exploit, before it was taken into the manual is imho wrong. To bad Since I think they don't overthink this dicision.

A totall other thing, if PA-Team didn't know after 1 week this exploit could have been used, they must have been blind. More used it. 1 quick post telling people the limit was 25mil, and people shouldn't donate more was nuff.
If it is a bug.. I'm programmer myself, and i gotta think about it. The design says, 25mil is the max of the fund. If the coder, codes it wrong, it's a failure of the coder, not of the code, since the code is working. But almost every "bug" is a failure of the coder not of the program itself. Therefor I would say "Yes", but since it wasn't covered in the rulez, should you be punished? NO!
Thunder, did you read the EULA? That clearly states that ANY bug found, should be reported to PAteam. If not, it's considered cheating. Point, end, finito. He's very lucky he still HAS a planet.....

. Bug Abuse: Abusing a bug in the game to gain benefit over others,
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 08:25   #113
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

ok the way i see it is 2 things.

Les say I am happily donating to my gal fund and i find that i can;t go over 25mil. SO I go and look in the manual and find nothing.. I now know nothing more. So either its meant to be a limit or its not - I still do not know for certain. Anyway I now find a way round the limit. So now I can go over 25mil but others cannot. So If the limit being 25mil is a bug, then I am gaining by working round it when other people cannot. OR if getting round the limit is the bug then I am gaining when other people cannot. I can say that there will be a gain becuase of the type of actions cbk took in the speed round. Hence either way I am gaining by exploiting a bug to my advantage.

Hence this - if you find something not mentioned in the manual you should report it to pa team. They can then find out if its meant to be there and update the manual or fix the bug or not. It is your duty to to report things under the eula.

Now you may say pa team are useless for not knowing how their game works etc, but remember this is not their game, this is spinners game so they simply arn;t going to know all the ins and outs of it.

As to Karm's lying, people make mistakes, he ackoqledged that an apologised.

it is now you cbk who should be apologsing for exploiting anything that isn;t explicititly declared to your advantage. This is not the only game that will punnish you for doing that - other paid games do the same - Eve Online for instance - expoliting bugs their will get u banned from the game - and yes its the admins who decide what is a bug as they know the features even if you do not - that is why u r meant to report strange things, not just so they can get fixed, but for your own protection.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 08:56   #114
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

bummer.... having it all taken away isnt fair...
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 09:09   #115
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TouRiQueT
bummer.... having it all taken away isnt fair...
yes they should have been closed, that would be fair
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 09:11   #116
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Okies.. where to start..

When we started to discuss if we should do this, we didn't kow about the limit, ofc Karm hasn't added that in his pasting from our gal forum..

When we discovered the limit (yes ofc we did), we weren't sure what to do, but we knew that to donate more to the fund, was on the edge of what we can do, and we knew that pa-team was watching us 24/7, so we found out we should just try it, and that they would stop us within hours if this wasn't legal.. so if they didnt like it, we would just loose some millions..

it's amazing that noone has discovered that we've been doing this.. We were boosting away from other gals, then suddenly we stop growing.. the reason we kept it a secret was because we didnt want other galaxies to start complaining about us doing it to pa-team (at this time we thought pa-team allready knew about it). It almost seems like they waited till we had more in fund, so it would hurt more (Not saying that they did).

We did this cause we didnt want to be 25% bigger than 2nd gal, as we allready had alot of people (you probably know who) wanting our roids if we did one little mistake. We had to get out of the spotlight.. and we were considering having res on our planets, or in fund, i think all our planets have 101-103 security, so the cov-op argument is not good enough.
It was just to drop from the #1 spot earlier.
It's not like we gained this 600mill res in an illegal way or anything.. we just stored them the wrong place..

I don't think we deserve to loose all our resources because of this.. The other galaxies that had done this maybe lost 50-100mill resources? i dont know, but im pretty sure it wasnt as much as we lost (600mill). This means it wasnt the same penalty for all galaxies.. and don't come with "You stored more in fund, so you should get a bigger penalty". I dont wanna hear: "You should be happy! you could be deleted!"

I think we shouldn't loose more on this, than the other galaxies that did it.
Just because we played better before we started to donate (i.e getting more res to donate), doesnt mean we have been worser than the other galaxies.

We pay alot here because we were #1 gal, no doubt.

I feel the war this round is against the pa-team, not other players and alliances, and this makes me really sad.. Putting so many hours into it, and they can just destroy just like that.
This situation would be alot different if we GAINED those 600mill due to something we did.
Now we just stored them.. there should be different grades of "cheating"! (No, i dont admit we cheat by writing that.)

I honestly didnt know we were risking to maybe loose this resources, I was told not to worry, it was no problem.. I'm not blaiming anyone else, but the point is, i didn't see this as a crime..
And still, we get a death penalty from the pa-team..

Our galaxy have had problems almost every day with accusations etc, it makes me sad that you can't be #1 gal wihout being flamed and controlled every second.. except this case, were they didnt find out about donations untill we had 600mill there..

I've always thought that playing p*******, is like cheating on your girlfriend (planetarion), but now it seems planetarion has ditched (or however its spelled) some of their players..

fuz
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 09:20   #117
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
Okies.. where to start..

When we started to discuss if we should do this, we didn't kow about the limit, ofc Karm hasn't added that in his pasting from our gal forum..

When we discovered the limit (yes ofc we did), we weren't sure what to do, but we knew that to donate more to the fund, was on the edge of what we can do, and we knew that pa-team was watching us 24/7, so we found out we should just try it, and that they would stop us within hours if this wasn't legal.. so if they didnt like it, we would just loose some millions..

it's amazing that noone has discovered that we've been doing this.. We were boosting away from other gals, then suddenly we stop growing.. the reason we kept it a secret was because we didnt want other galaxies to start complaining about us doing it to pa-team (at this time we thought pa-team allready knew about it). It almost seems like they waited till we had more in fund, so it would hurt more (Not saying that they did).

We did this cause we didnt want to be 25% bigger than 2nd gal, as we allready had alot of people (you probably know who) wanting our roids if we did one little mistake. We had to get out of the spotlight.. and we were considering having res on our planets, or in fund, i think all our planets have 101-103 security, so the cov-op argument is not good enough.
It was just to drop from the #1 spot earlier.
It's not like we gained this 600mill res in an illegal way or anything.. we just stored them the wrong place..

I don't think we deserve to loose all our resources because of this.. The other galaxies that had done this maybe lost 50-100mill resources? i dont know, but im pretty sure it wasnt as much as we lost (600mill). This means it wasnt the same penalty for all galaxies.. and don't come with "You stored more in fund, so you should get a bigger penalty". I dont wanna hear: "You should be happy! you could be deleted!"

I think we shouldn't loose more on this, than the other galaxies that did it.
Just because we played better before we started to donate (i.e getting more res to donate), doesnt mean we have been worser than the other galaxies.

We pay alot here because we were #1 gal, no doubt.

I feel the war this round is against the pa-team, not other players and alliances, and this makes me really sad.. Putting so many hours into it, and they can just destroy just like that.
This situation would be alot different if we GAINED those 600mill due to something we did.
Now we just stored them.. there should be different grades of "cheating"! (No, i dont admit we cheat by writing that.)

I honestly didnt know we were risking to maybe loose this resources, I was told not to worry, it was no problem.. I'm not blaiming anyone else, but the point is, i didn't see this as a crime..
And still, we get a death penalty from the pa-team..

Our galaxy have had problems almost every day with accusations etc, it makes me sad that you can't be #1 gal wihout being flamed and controlled every second.. except this case, were they didnt find out about donations untill we had 600mill there..

I've always thought that playing p*******, is like cheating on your girlfriend (planetarion), but now it seems planetarion has ditched (or however its spelled) some of their players..

fuz
u basically admit there that u were abusing a bug but expected to be caught earlier if u were going to be caught...

and u know u could have queitly asked a support memebr or something if there was meant to be a limit on the gal fund size. There are lots of ways that you could ahve handled it and you choose the dishonest way. Sure its a harsh punnishment, but not as harsh as closing your whole gal.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 09:22   #118
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shooter16
Reguardless if it was found in the manual or not, you and your galmates knew it was capped at 25 million. Almost every single player that has played multiple rounds of PA know that the gal fund is capped.
I've played multiple rounds, and I never knew there was a cap on the galaxy fund. It shouldn't be right to ASSUME that people know certain things about the game.

Assumptions on something like this is a bad thing.

I agree with cbk, if someone never knew it was capped at 25(and they obviously wouldn't if it wasn't in the manual) - then why should they be stripped of their resources?
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 09:24   #119
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

I'm glad you read all of it Kal,
maybe you read all, but you for sure didnt understand it all, which sadly dont surprise me.
I said in that post that i didn't consider this a crime, or cheating, and i also said "No i don't admit cheating" etc.. Try to read once more..

If pa-team is so damn right, why do some people here support us on this? That the penalty shouldnt be that hard.. ofc most people here agree with pa-team, since they want to win the game.

fuz
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 09:30   #120
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffle
I agree with cbk, if someone never knew it was capped at 25(and they obviously wouldn't if it wasn't in the manual) - then why should they be stripped of their resources?
They knew it. They "got around" it. Hence, they broke the rules by abusing a wrong-coded limitation (a bug).

Is it really so hard to understand?
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 09:35   #121
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pablissimo
It amuses me vastly that you came here expecting sympathy from people I can only assume you believed to be blindy anti-authority, and had it blow up in your face in such an absolute fashion. Well played, the scale of cockup here is monumental.

You're not going to get any sympathy because you broke the EULA. The fact that you haven't been deleted doesn't change that fact. You knowingly abused a game bug to gain an unfair advantage over other players in the universe, and by the sounds of it had absolutely no intention of informing PA Team of the possibility of the exploit you were using. That you still have your account is a blessing, and one that I probably wouldn't afford you (along with everyone else on this forum by the looks of it) if I were in the arbiter's place, so can you possibly explain just what your problem is without resorting to 'meh meh meh manual'?



Sums it up nicely <3
Judging by the comments ppl has given me in PMs over the last 24 hours I have gotten exacly the sympathy I expected to get... I expected no sympathy at all on these forums as I know very well how it works here... The flaming- and probagandamachines are running here and very many ppl follows the mass. It has always been like that and will most likely always be like that.
I didn't expect anyone to stand up and defend me officialy since it would be to risk defending a person who is accused for cheating which noone would dare to do officialy (maybe because they are wimps and maybe just because they can't handle the eventual critics they might get. Not that it matters too much for me though since their support in a PM is just as good for me as their support here on the forums.

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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 09:39   #122
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Propaganda.

And a lot if not most of the posts on this thread haven't solely flamed you, they've told you why we think you're in the wrong and why we think the action taken was wholly just. You know, like a proper assessment and stuff. So how exactly does it work on these forums? This thread's had more objective reasoning in it than a great many on PD or indeed about cheating in general where things generally degenerate into 'lol cheating lol'
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 09:42   #123
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Because if I was going to support you in this case, I certainly wouldn't admit to it in public...
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 10:08   #124
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Martok
Thunder, did you read the EULA? That clearly states that ANY bug found, should be reported to PAteam. If not, it's considered cheating. Point, end, finito. He's very lucky he still HAS a planet.....

. Bug Abuse: Abusing a bug in the game to gain benefit over others,
while not reporting it to the Game Administrators
Well, then we can delete a lot of people since many knew it.. But I didn't post about what the rulez where. I posted my opinion.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 10:21   #125
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk100
Judging by the comments ppl has given me in PMs over the last 24 hours I have gotten exacly the sympathy I expected to get... I expected no sympathy at all on these forums as I know very well how it works here... The flaming- and probagandamachines are running here and very many ppl follows the mass. It has always been like that and will most likely always be like that.
I didn't expect anyone to stand up and defend me officialy since it would be to risk defending a person who is accused for cheating which noone would dare to do officialy (maybe because they are wimps and maybe just because they can't handle the eventual critics they might get. Not that it matters too much for me though since their support in a PM is just as good for me as their support here on the forums.

cbk
Then why the hell did you post it on the forums in the first place? It's pretty lame throwing this one on the 'flaming- and porbagandamachines'-pile. This is a discussion forum, things get discussed, and if you post something fishy and try to defend your cause to no matter what extent, you can damn well expect people to fry your ass for it.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 10:24   #126
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
I said in that post that i didn't consider this a crime, or cheating
So if I smash your head in with a baseball bat, and don't consider that a crime, or murder, I shouldn't be punished?

It's not a simple case of storing resources in the wrong place. It's keeping your score down artificially without actually having to sacrifice score, allowing you to hit planets that are smaller than you otherwise would have been able to hit. It's circumventing a rule that the game enforces and that you yourself stated that you did indeed encounter.

And the death penalty? Don't be such a drama queen. You broke the legally binding agreement with PA Team, and you're damn lucky they're choosing to continue providing you with a game account despite not having to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Thunderball
Well, then we can delete a lot of people since many knew it..
Everyone abusing the bug could indeed be deleted - PA Team has decided that that would be too harsh and removed the excess resources instead. It's just that not everyone goes onto the forums to whine about how they were punished for cheating.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 10:37   #127
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hook
Then why the hell did you post it on the forums in the first place? It's pretty lame throwing this one on the 'flaming- and porbagandamachines'-pile. This is a discussion forum, things get discussed, and if you post something fishy and try to defend your cause to no matter what extent, you can damn well expect people to fry your ass for it.
Since there was no what so ever reason for me to continue the lame discussion about if it was in the manual b4 they deleted the res or not (since its an admit claiming that he is right then there is only one way to convince him that he is not and that is to make the public see it and it worked) then to post it here was the only place to take it...

And about if I should have the res back or not... ppl have an oppinion here on forums... when ppl talk with me in a PM they might agree with me (EXACLy as Xtothez said)

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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 10:39   #128
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Thunderball
A totall other thing, if PA-Team didn't know after 1 week this exploit could have been used, they must have been blind. More used it. 1 quick post telling people the limit was 25mil, and people shouldn't donate more was nuff.
If it is a bug.. I'm programmer myself, and i gotta think about it. The design says, 25mil is the max of the fund. If the coder, codes it wrong, it's a failure of the coder, not of the code, since the code is working. But almost every "bug" is a failure of the coder not of the program itself. Therefor I would say "Yes", but since it wasn't covered in the rulez, should you be punished? NO!
As I said before, just because a bug exists doesnt mean you should exploit it you should report it!!! If PA team get back to you and say "No thats intended, its not a bug, then you can use it"

About the "its not covered in the rules" - Yes it was, it was covered under bug abuse.

They should get punished yes, but not every punishment ends in full closure of he planet as shown in the EULA, it can be score/roid/ship lose upto full account cloosure. The PAteam have already said they felt full closure would have been a bit harsh, so they just removed the resources you were hiding (yes, you can say resources arent indicted in the EULA but they are the basis of roids/ships/score so it is that way)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EULA
(2) Various punitive measures imply that the punishment
is completely at the discretion of the
Game Administrators, it can vary from small
score/ship/asteroid losses to full account closures
depending on the situation.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 10:42   #129
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk100
Since there was no what so ever reason for me to continue the lame discussion about if it was in the manual b4 they deleted the res or not
Which incidentally is completely irrelevant, since you broke the EULA, which is the only thing that matters. The game itself tells you at 25mil that you cannot donate more, so the fact that it wasn't in the manual is pretty much a non-issue.
Quote:
And about if I should have the res back or not... ppl have an oppinion here on forums... when ppl talk with me in a PM they might agree with me (EXACLy as Xtothez said)
Because they're your friends sucking up to you and people who aren't aware of all the facts, but only know that PA Team "stole your 600mil resources, omg wtf!", and because they don't care about cheaters in the game.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 10:54   #130
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
So if I smash your head in with a baseball bat, and don't consider that a crime, or murder, I shouldn't be punished?

It's not a simple case of storing resources in the wrong place. It's keeping your score down artificially without actually having to sacrifice score, allowing you to hit planets that are smaller than you otherwise would have been able to hit. It's circumventing a rule that the game enforces and that you yourself stated that you did indeed encounter.

And the death penalty? Don't be such a drama queen. You broke the legally binding agreement with PA Team, and you're damn lucky they're choosing to continue providing you with a game account despite not having to do so.
Everyone abusing the bug could indeed be deleted - PA Team has decided that that would be too harsh and removed the excess resources instead. It's just that not everyone goes onto the forums to whine about how they were punished for cheating.
If you could please not read some exact sentences, but see where im going with my post, it would be GREAT. What i don't like, is that we dont get the same punishment. The other top20 gals that maybe had some res in fund, lets say 50mill, was ofc just glad that all funds were deleted, since we had alot more than them, so for us this was punishment, for them it was a BIG step towards the #1 position.. and you know what i mean by death penalty, i dont mean that our planets will die, but that our chance to become #1 is almose gone, since this things doesnt exactly make people on our gal wanna fight even more...

We could've kept the score down with having them on our planet too, it would just be half the score, but its the same idea. this was an easy thing to do for us so we could have totally control over how far we were infront of other gals etc. We had to attack planets far above our value-limit anyway.

I want everyone to be threated the same! and the fact that all got reseted fund, is not to be threated the same, since we lost 5mill more score on it.

Please read the posts here with an open mind.

fuz
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 10:56   #131
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Because they're your friends sucking up to you and people who aren't aware of all the facts, but only know that PA Team "stole your 600mil resources, omg wtf!", and because they don't care about cheaters in the game.
ofc they know at least as much as you do, so stop acting so stupid.

fuz
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:04   #132
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
Okies.. where to start..
snip ....
fuz

you might not have known about the limit but you did find out when you couldnt donate more so finding ways that made it possible (and you all wanna appear to have common sense) shouldve ringed a bell it wasnt normal and that you where risking the resources to be gone all of a sudden.

making arguements about being #1 gal is so hard coz everyone is against you etc etc sure ppl will try to get planets closed .... but who cares if you havent done anything wrong why be so paranoid i wouldnt/couldnt care less if i didnt done anything wrong. So imo it was eating on your concious of being caught.

now bout saying you didnt get any advantage by donating into the fund i will deffinatly beg the differ, 1) you could attack planets most ppl couldnt be able to hit anymore ie inactive planets or less active with still a nice amount of roids. 2) valid or not in your opinion resource hacking in which i see an advantage for you since youll never loose some resources coz fund cant be hacked which is an advantage.

so imo you shouldnt have come here on the boards to try to favor yourself and redeem the good of your actions the intention was good for your gal but its hardly fair play and against the rules (use a bit of common sense and you basicly knew it was wrong).
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:08   #133
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
If you could please not read some exact sentences, but see where im going with my post, it would be GREAT.
I did. It's not going anywhere. Your entire "defense" rests on the fact that you keep on claiming you do not see it as bug abuse, without presenting any arguments as to why it wouldn't be.
Quote:
What i don't like, is that we dont get the same punishment.
You got exactly the same punishment as other galaxies. All resources above the 25mil limit were removed. Period.That it cost you more and thus affected you more, is because you were abusing it to a greater extent and that is entirely your own fault.
Quote:
but that our chance to become #1 is almose gone
You should have thought about that before you took the chance to reach the #1 position through cheating.
Quote:
We could've kept the score down with having them on our planet too, it would just be half the score, but its the same idea.
Even half the score would increase the size of your planets and limit the amount of planets that you could attack as a result. And if keeping your resources on your planet was such a valid option, and you all had 101-103 covert ops anyway, then you're only all the more stupid for resorting to bug abuse with the risk of getting caught and possibly even deleted.
Quote:
I want everyone to be threated the same! and the fact that all got reseted fund, is not to be threated the same, since we lost 5mill more score on it.
So? That's your fault, not PA Teams. If other galaxies had put that amount of resources into their fund, they'd have lost as much score as you had. You abused the bug to a far greater extent than others, so the punishment hits you harder.

Deal with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
ofc they know at least as much as you do, so stop acting so stupid.
I wonder if cbk told people that "PA Team stole 650mil resources from their galaxy fund" and that "Karmulian lied about it being in the manual, so no rules were broken", or that he said "Hey, I abused something that I could easily spot as a bug and broke the legally binding agreement I have with Jolt, and now they've given my galaxy a light punishment by taking away our resources, rather than deleting our planets altogether".

Be realistic. No one in their right state of mind or with half a brain could claim your galaxy to be innocent or the punishment to be unfair - if anything, you got off easy on this one.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:09   #134
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Which incidentally is completely irrelevant, since you broke the EULA, which is the only thing that matters. The game itself tells you at 25mil that you cannot donate more, so the fact that it wasn't in the manual is pretty much a non-issue.
Because they're your friends sucking up to you and people who aren't aware of all the facts, but only know that PA Team "stole your 600mil resources, omg wtf!", and because they don't care about cheaters in the game.
Thank you for saving me the hassle
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:13   #135
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk100
"I simply wonder why PA is losing more and more players round after round after round and so on"


cbk
Because they are being bashed by cheaters and bug exploiters, who are rarely caught or punished ?

I find it funny, that the only people regularly going on PD or AD whining about being cheated, are the cheaters themselves.

There is a long history of it, and every time the cheaters say, they will quit if....

But guess what, next round most of the same cheaters are back and trying new "tricks", while the bashed player actually just leaves in silence.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:15   #136
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
I want everyone to be threated the same! and the fact that all got reseted fund, is not to be threated the same, since we lost 5mill more score on it.

fuz

how is that not be treated the same ??? that others werent stupid enuff to put all resources in the fund, and now you got it deleted and got what actualy maximum was allowed in the fund and same for other gals HOW in the world is that not same treatment ... you think coz you abused a NO-BUG for you that you should be treated differently and get the rest donated back to you and only get 100mil removed or so do you wanna be paid for abusing the NO-BUG for you, you took a chance just like you stated otherwise you wouldnt be discussing bout it before you took those actions and now it backfired at you and you want your resources back. imo i think you shouldnt cry too much go on and fight you had enuff advantage for a few weeks stop being lame and admit you guys were doing something you might have known better not to do as 1 of you stated you're not stupid or are you ???
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:17   #137
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
I want everyone to be threated the same! and the fact that all got reseted fund, is not to be threated the same, since we lost 5mill more score on it.
Cheaters don't deserve to be threated the same as people who play fair and square. Cheaters have no rights whatsoever... you should all just be quiet and be damn happy with the light punishment you've been given.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:19   #138
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
I'm glad you read all of it Kal,
maybe you read all, but you for sure didnt understand it all, which sadly dont surprise me.
I said in that post that i didn't consider this a crime, or cheating, and i also said "No i don't admit cheating" etc.. Try to read once more..

If pa-team is so damn right, why do some people here support us on this? That the penalty shouldnt be that hard.. ofc most people here agree with pa-team, since they want to win the game.

fuz
all i'm really saying is that you shoudl have reported this when u discovered it. u all claim that there is no gal fund limit of 25mil - yet you found one and didn;t report it to get the limit removed - that is my main objection - u were tyring to exploit an advantage u found due to a bug (in your minds) that meant that u could not go over 25mil. I'm not saying you wenr;t harshly treated, i'm more syaing that thats what happens when you don;t report things that you should report. Maybe if instead of comapling you had nicly asked patema to simply give the resources back to the planets that donated him then we might not be havign the argument.

Its the attiitude of you and your gal I object to.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:22   #139
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
You should have thought about that before you took the chance to reach the #1 position through cheating.
erm, you see what im talking about?
and so, how did we reach the #1 position through cheating?
i'm very, very interested in your answer on this.
Remember, we were 3mill ahead of other gals before we started donating..
If you got more information than i got on how we got there, ill be glad to hear..
Infact, we reached the #1 position despite someone (you know who) farmed us.

How can you say we got same punishment?
The other gals didnt get punished at all. ALL other gals got a 4-6mill scoreboost, depending on how much they had in fund.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:24   #140
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
erm, you see what im talking about?
and so, how did we reach the #1 position through cheating?
i'm very, very interested in your answer on this.
Remember, we were 3mill ahead of other gals before we started donating..
If you got more information than i got on how we got there, ill be glad to hear..
Infact, we reached the #1 position despite someone (you know who) farmed us.

How can you say we got same punishment?
The other gals didnt get punished at all. ALL other gals got a 4-6mill scoreboost, depending on how much they had in fund.
how did they get a score boost?
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:26   #141
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
all i'm really saying is that you shoudl have reported this when u discovered it. u all claim that there is no gal fund limit of 25mil - yet you found one and didn;t report it to get the limit removed - that is my main objection - u were tyring to exploit an advantage u found due to a bug (in your minds) that meant that u could not go over 25mil. I'm not saying you wenr;t harshly treated, i'm more syaing that thats what happens when you don;t report things that you should report. Maybe if instead of comapling you had nicly asked patema to simply give the resources back to the planets that donated him then we might not be havign the argument.

Its the attiitude of you and your gal I object to.
I think i've been tad more diplomatic here than cbk.
The thing i've asked for here, is that we get threated the same as other galaxies..
Everyone get back a certain % of the res they had or something..
f.ex if we got back 300mill res, we would not gain by this overall, we would still have lost ALOT on it.. so it would be a punishment, but not as critical as this...
Please have in mind we have fought hard for those resources we had in fund, we didnt gain those resources by cheating, which ofc would be ALOT worse than this, but still, we would've been threated pretty much the same, maybe deleted.

fuz
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:27   #142
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

this all reminds me of cimmeria somehow.

A statement to justify your cheating which makes you only look dumber and in the end just supports the view that you are a cheat.

As a job reference i would also strongly recommend you drop any job plans in the PR-branch, you would fail miserably.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:29   #143
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
how did they get a score boost?
Our gal lost 6mill score, which is the same as if all other gals got 6mill scoreboost..
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:33   #144
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

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Originally Posted by fuz
Our gal lost 6mill score, which is the same as if all other gals got 6mill scoreboost..

ROFL are you fking serious :/
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:35   #145
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
and so, how did we reach the #1 position through cheating?
Entirely different subject, but I do recall your galaxy taking a sizeable sum of suprisingly easy roids from Grim|'s planet, for example. But let's not go into that, there's a nice thread on AD for that.
Quote:
Remember, we were 3mill ahead of other gals before we started donating..
It's quite simple. Your galaxy was aiming for the #1 position. You believed that storing resources in the fund beyond what was allowed would help you in this goal, or you would have simply kept the resources at your planets instead.

Ergo: You were cheating in order to have your galaxy reach the #1 position at the end of the round. If your galaxy would have attained that anyway, but now lost it through this punishment, then excuse me while I go roll about the floor laughing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
Our gal lost 6mill score, which is the same as if all other gals got 6mill scoreboost..
Excuse me while I go do that anyway.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:37   #146
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

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Originally Posted by paeooke
ROFL are you fking serious :/
hehe, i now see that it was bad way of writing it, i shouldve added "for us" ofc.
It's the same for us if we're even with the other gals on 40mill +/- or 34mill+/- ...
you see?
heh
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:38   #147
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
we didnt gain those resources by cheating
No, but you kept them by cheating. Hiding things in the gal fund via a bug gains you free immunity to covert ops, whereas everyone else has to buy security centers or sacrifice another engineering priority to be likewise immune. You had an unfair advantage.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:41   #148
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Entirely different subject, but I do recall your galaxy taking a sizeable sum of suprisingly easy roids from Grim|'s planet, for example. But let's not go into that, there's a nice thread on AD for that.
I do recall 10-20 fang planets taking surprisingly easy roids from our gal, and the rest you can read on AD yes.

I'm not trying to make us look innocent here, it seems you think so, what im trying to do is to get us a fair punishment.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:42   #149
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz
hehe, i now see that it was bad way of writing it, i shouldve added "for us" ofc.
It's the same for us if we're even with the other gals on 40mill +/- or 34mill+/- ...
you see?
heh
the ones that abused the "bug" got their resources deleted if you guys where foolisch enuff to store the fund with an amount that with common sense (and the message you get) know you shouldnt be putting it there, now that you lost your resources and lost 6 mil score by it isnt the fault of other galaxies that didnt. the ones that did and lost score through it tuff titty you know you wasnt spose to do it but still did it it hurts but you have to live with it.
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Unread 26 Apr 2004, 11:45   #150
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Re: lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtothez
No, but you kept them by cheating. Hiding things in the gal fund via a bug gains you free immunity to covert ops, whereas everyone else has to buy security centers or sacrifice another engineering priority to be likewise immune. You had an unfair advantage.
this cov-op argument isnt enough, its 7500 res max per agent, so it wouldnt matter if we had 2mill or 100mill on our planet. Don't you think we get cov-opped on other thigns than resources? I have 30% sec centers and security as 2nd pri, just as most of my gal have to have... the cov-opping was absolutely no reason for us to do this.
The only thing that mattered, was that we wanted to get out of the spotlight, cause other top10 gals (allied gals too) tried to take us down all the time. Thise was the O N L Y reason.
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