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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 15:28   #51
Yeggstry
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by virogenesis
lmao @ Yeggstry you always were the n00b hehe j/k hows u anyway.... :P
I'm not bad thanks

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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 16:12   #52
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Re: Cov. opping

/me giggles quietly
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Unread 11 Dec 2003, 23:58   #53
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuhoajaz
I didn't pay to have my round spoiled by someone who doesn't deserve to spoil it.
You spoil our round your way. We spoil your round our way. It's that easy.
CovOpSquads rawk.
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 10:45   #54
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuhoajaz
I didn't pay to have my round spoiled by someone who doesn't deserve to spoil it.
But well, the rules say otherwise I suppose.

I've suicided my fleets 4 times this round so I don't take it that seriously anymore, but still
Most people in Planetarions history didn't pay to get assraped sideways by alliances blockwars and people 15 times their size, but guess what, they did.

Stop whinging.

I think, I'm going to login for the first time in a month, ask around for your coords, and CovOp you an additional 30 times per day, just to be sure.
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 11:38   #55
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petru
I think, I'm going to login for the first time in a month, ask around for your coords, and CovOp you an additional 30 times per day, just to be sure.

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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 11:56   #56
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeggstry
hmmmmmmmm........ Eclipse covert op team........ now THERE's and idea

cover ops is only useful to hit the top people, and Lord_Thunderball hit the nail on the head when he said that it makes someone that has been smashed feel useful by frustrating the top players. I can understand the top guys saying that they now have no factories so cant grow is annoying, if I was ever in that position I'm sure I would get annoyed too (in fact in the early beta round I was, lo Phil^ destroying my damn structures and roids). But I guess nothing is gonna be done about it so unfortunately we have to just put up with it....
The more I think about it, to more fair it is. Low score doesn't mean low activity. So what if you get bashed(Don't say that active people can't be roided, ofc they can!) but still want to win the round(or let an alliance member win it). You can bugger the top people. If it works really well, your allaince m8 will gain score on the top players. So they become top, prolly they will get cov opped as well, this keeps more balance in the game.

All previous rounds it was hard to stop a top10 player from groing exceptional big. Now you can bugger him, even if you are a lot smaller but active. Whining about this being unfair I can't really see. You can't messure the score of someone to the activity he has. Why wouldn't someone with low score but coop'ing every tick getting the same credit as a top10 player attacking evey 7 ticks? Most attacks are covered this round, so maybe to cov-op guy does even more effective work then the hot shots with loads of roids.

Ofc it's frustrating if you are top10, but that's the risk for being there. Don't you think the active player wasn't annoyed when you wasted his fleet when he was drinking with some m8? Or maybe you wasted a friend of him! Ofc they should bugger you for that!

Viva la Cov Op!
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 13:34   #57
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Thunderball
The more I think about it, to more fair it is. Low score doesn't mean low activity. So what if you get bashed(Don't say that active people can't be roided, ofc they can!) but still want to win the round(or let an alliance member win it). You can bugger the top people. If it works really well, your allaince m8 will gain score on the top players. So they become top, prolly they will get cov opped as well, this keeps more balance in the game.

All previous rounds it was hard to stop a top10 player from groing exceptional big. Now you can bugger him, even if you are a lot smaller but active. Whining about this being unfair I can't really see. You can't messure the score of someone to the activity he has. Why wouldn't someone with low score but coop'ing every tick getting the same credit as a top10 player attacking evey 7 ticks? Most attacks are covered this round, so maybe to cov-op guy does even more effective work then the hot shots with loads of roids.

Ofc it's frustrating if you are top10, but that's the risk for being there. Don't you think the active player wasn't annoyed when you wasted his fleet when he was drinking with some m8? Or maybe you wasted a friend of him! Ofc they should bugger you for that!

Viva la Cov Op!
110% correct
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 13:47   #58
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
110% correct
You cannot have a feature in a wargame that you canít defend yourself against. That should be obvious for everybody.
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 13:55   #59
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treveler
You cannot have a feature in a wargame that you canít defend yourself against. That should be obvious for everybody.

the big guys had the bashing fleets that was impossible to defend against.....

now the small ones have a weapon that can be defended against (security level)

so its more even now, not not quite yet
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 14:25   #60
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Re: Cov. opping

A big player can annoy smaller players(that doesn't mean less active players) by attacking them with huge fleets.

Big player got two benefits over here:
1) He got a big fleet, and the defender needs a lot of defence to cover himself
2) The big player is high ranked, which counts in a game like planetarion

And one negative side:
1) The player is big, he get cov opped constant

A small player(that doesn't mean less active) can cov op a bigger player

Small player have one benefit over here:
1) He reduce the gap between him and the big player(Although it needs a lot of cov op to close the gap), the big player can arm himself against cov op(about the same as a small player can defend up to a big player). Security centers ain't working good, but a small vs big fleets sucks as well

And the negative side:
1) This dude is small, low in ranks and often not rewarded as much as the big player.


So we got 2 kind of active players. If you are big you get credit, and have a HUGE advantage when attacking, if you are small you got no credit and have HUGE advantage when cov op big players.

So, for the people who are big and active: You got a much easier life then the small guy without credits.

And for the small and active people: Credit for you, pissing off every big player out there!
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 14:25   #61
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohm
the big guys had the bashing fleets that was impossible to defend against.....

now the small ones have a weapon that can be defended against (security level)

so its more even now, not not quite yet
I havent seen a single person with a undefendable fleet..
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 14:44   #62
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eventh
I havent seen a single person with a undefendable fleet..
I haven't seen a singe person who dropped 200 places due Cov Ops only...
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 15:04   #63
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohm
the big guys had the bashing fleets that was impossible to defend against.....

now the small ones have a weapon that can be defended against (security level)

so its more even now, not not quite yet
No you cant. No matter how high security you have, the small players still get through. I am in no way against the cover op feature but in its current state its just to powerfull.

And small players can defend themself against huge players with the help of their allymates. Against cover ops there is nothing you can do.
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 15:40   #64
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Re: Cov. opping

But the impact is also much less. You need loads of cov ops to really waste a planet(if that is possible at atll). With attacking you can waste someone loads easier.
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 15:46   #65
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Thunderball
But the impact is also much less. You need loads of cov ops to really waste a planet(if that is possible at atll). With attacking you can waste someone loads easier.
If you dont agree to the fack that an option you cannot defend yourself against, should not be present in a war game like this, I see no reason to continue this discussion, no matter how small the effect is.

Just for the record, I`m not one of those top players that gets cover oped all the time.
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 15:55   #66
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Re: Cov. opping

hypothetically

how practical is it to defend against someone 3* your size?

i'm sure there's a lot of newbies out there who'd argue it's just as possible to defend against covert ops as it is to defend against bash fleets

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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 16:04   #67
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
hypothetically

how practical is it to defend against someone 3* your size?

i'm sure there's a lot of newbies out there who'd argue it's just as possible to defend against covert ops as it is to defend against bash fleets

-mist
Then you need to socialize more, get friends and get higher activity and by doing so get into an alliance that can defend you. I was bashed constantly for two rounds before I could get into any decent alliance. And with the 20% rule, the ship/ship option, bash fleets from one planet is none existent. I doubt there have been arranged large organized bash fleets attack on inactive small newbie planets.
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 16:10   #68
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Re: Cov. opping

This is quite simple.

Well, the thing is that PA HQ implemented an option without it begin tested 100% and its not the first time this round that it has caused problems.

Atm. PA is not about having as many big nasty ppl as posible but about having as many small ppl being able to cov op all the time. If an alliance or group (could be eet or whatever) has lets say 300 ppl who can cov op every tick they are able to destroy all constructions on one planet in only one tick. Then afterwards they can spend further 20 hours on exploding Astroids and in that way they can in just about 20 ticks take a planet out of top 10 with no chance to get back there (ofc. he will have ships left but with no roids you can't stay in the top for long). in just 5 days a group can take down the entire top 10 doing this. And the most important fact is that the top players has no what so ever cance to defend against it.
I remember last round wher ET trew everything on me they had. The battle was unfair and I had almost no chance to survive, but at least I had a chance and at least I had a hope.
Without hope in this game there is no game and all that will come out of it is that the top planets go to hell (and let me remind you that its the top players that is the best and theo ones that keep PA alive).
Some ppl will argue that its equal to everyone and I don't really say that it isn't. All I say is that this will keep pissing off the ppl who really deserve to win and noone will really get much satisfaction out of it. The small ppl who do those cov ops are most likely not enjoying it much cause its not much excitement in it for them either. So the ones who shall keep PA alive and really carry the game trough this hard stage gets pissed and annoyed and thereby hurt the game ALOT. And the small ppl play a game that doesn't really give them much excitement so its a lose/lose situation that NOONE can benefit from in the long run.

cbk
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Unread 12 Dec 2003, 23:17   #69
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuhoajaz
Isn't it funny how a top2500 player can CONTROL the ENTIRE game for 4 top15 players. The following scenario is a nuisance for all of us four:

We get covert opped about 5 times every 10h, and we end up losing about 7 structures. At this moment, I have no amps and no factories. Everytime I build one up, I lose 2 more.
Right now, I have MINUS 1 medium factories. Yes, MINUS one.

I agree that the rules of the game allow this, but c'moon seriously. Is it FAIR that ANYONE who's SMALL and INACTIVE enough has the ability to TOTALLY STALL and FREEZE the game for 4 top 15 players??? That's utterly ridiculous.


- Tuhoaja, Dragons HC

This round has caused me to lose all my interest in planetarion. I will move on to ******** after the pain that is pa:x finally ends.
Wah wah wah. I bet those "smaller" people are having loads of fun against you top players. What is this game supposed to be about - fun? They can't have that if they get attacked by the bigger players, and get knocked out. This is a way for them to have some fun. Face it, the community is dying, many people are leaving. You top players bashing all the smaller people isn't going to want to make people come back for another round.

Your just upset because the enemy is smart in doing this. Get yur own small great cov ops and do it to the non-allied top 15, whatever. Quit yur complaining, it's part of the game.
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 00:30   #70
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Re: Cov. opping

bottom line: anything that is even theoretically 100% impossible to stop/defend against should be, per definition, a cheat or bug.

Think God Mode.
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 14:48   #71
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morca
problem is: you wont have more fun in ******** :lol:

I can't find any reason why I wouldn't.
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 14:55   #72
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffle
Wah wah wah. I bet those "smaller" people are having loads of fun against you top players. What is this game supposed to be about - fun? They can't have that if they get attacked by the bigger players, and get knocked out. This is a way for them to have some fun. Face it, the community is dying, many people are leaving. You top players bashing all the smaller people isn't going to want to make people come back for another round.

Your just upset because the enemy is smart in doing this. Get yur own small great cov ops and do it to the non-allied top 15, whatever. Quit yur complaining, it's part of the game.

Yet this is all irrelevant to my point, which traveller is also trying to make. There CAN'T BE a feature in a war game you CAN'T DEFENDED against! That is NOT right.

Against fleets you can always defend. If there was a Fleet that was UNDEFENDABLE, and your own ships fled just before that fleet landed, then it would be the same. (This note to whomever argued about it )
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 14:56   #73
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuhoajaz
Planetarion has been a great game for me, but this will be the last round I'm ever wasting money on it again. Many many many players agree with me, most of them HCs from various alliances (including ..., vgn, ...).
Scuse me? VGN are already recruiting for the next round*!

Speak for yourself please and don't assume everyone else agrees with you.




*Please note I no longer play PA but I still try and keep up with VGN.
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 15:24   #74
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Re: Cov. opping

I agree with both sides, covopping is *the* way for a small planet to play,, and it's a fair tactic imo. I don't believe that a big group of small players would/should be able to completely unseat a top player (at least not in a few days).

The problem I have with this is that the big player cannot do anything against these "annoying little pests". I think there should be a special anti-covop-covop. "Steal memberlist" or something . This would give the big player the opportunity to do something against the smaller one: make sure the covops from that particular planet will have a much higher chance of failure for a certain amount of ticks. Size difference would have to have an inverse effect tho: the bigger the difference, the more effective. This would not stop every single covop, so big players will never be 100% safe, but would be a tool against one single planet continuously covopping the same player.
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 17:46   #75
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohm
now the small ones have a weapon that can be defended against (security level)
Read Mitre's reply... about his security level
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 19:20   #76
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Re: Cov. opping

everyone knew the co-op was f***** during beta including the creators but for the life of me i cant figure out why ur waiting till end of rd to bitch about it, everyone had the option of not paying and playing and u choose to pay and play so quit ur f****** whingeing and get on with the game ( this is under the assumption that the ticker re-starts)
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 19:32   #77
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Re: Cov. opping

covops are grrreat

tho it should be so that after you get a supreme or whatever alert level they shouldnt get through anymore.

hehe decided to edit the alert farming part as was totally clueless about it being an old idea already
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From: Phil (1:1:7) Subject: you know Sent: Thu Apr 29 15:46:54 2004
this is verging on farming, you know perfectly well i have to run fleets. attack again and i`ll give serious thought to investigating you to see who else you farm, and possible close :P
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 19:42   #78
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Re: Cov. opping

give the chap a medal.
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 20:12   #79
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrTorspo
covops are grrreat

tho it should be so that after you get a supreme or whatever alert level they shouldnt get through anymore.

And then you could also "farm" alert lvl by getting some1 you know to covop you with 1 agent each tick.. losses would be so small that it wouldnt matter. this should be made illegal in user agreement ofc. (wasnt me who thought of this idea btw, some1 smarter did )
The alertlevel farming isnt really a new idea, i recommended it already in the first beta but it was burried under tons of "yay spinner is great youre clueless" and "we know about it and it will be sorted" comments.
Not that in the actual game farming alertness would be really make a difference because a much smaller planet ALWAYS goes through.
P.S. in the beta i recommended that the "support" planets covop a few other planets before to drop their stealth level even further before they try with 1 agent on the "big" friendly dude. This would and does ensure the operation fails in most cases and only 1k of each ressource of the "support" planet are wasted while no harm is done to the big planet..
Guess it needs more then just a simple post in the beta to get such "bugs" fixed :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Unread 13 Dec 2003, 20:16   #80
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuhoajaz
Yet this is all irrelevant to my point, which traveller is also trying to make. There CAN'T BE a feature in a war game you CAN'T DEFENDED against! That is NOT right.

Against fleets you can always defend. If there was a Fleet that was UNDEFENDABLE, and your own ships fled just before that fleet landed, then it would be the same. (This note to whomever argued about it )

good point
i''ll put in a word that we should find some way to hardcode it so that unallied planets can't be attacked against. i mean... a poor unallied planet has almost no hope of getting def if the attacker is big enough. depending on how friendly the galaxy is ofc.
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Unread 16 Dec 2003, 05:55   #81
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Re: Cov. opping

They should put in some kind of suicide bombing ship where if you send it to attack someone more than 5x your size they automatically lose 43.2% of their ships; that would teach those successful players not to grow too big!
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Unread 16 Dec 2003, 09:52   #82
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuhoajaz
Yet this is all irrelevant to my point, which traveller is also trying to make. There CAN'T BE a feature in a war game you CAN'T DEFENDED against! That is NOT right.

Against fleets you can always defend. If there was a Fleet that was UNDEFENDABLE, and your own ships fled just before that fleet landed, then it would be the same. (This note to whomever argued about it )

This whomever is me ! Please dont forget...
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Unread 16 Dec 2003, 11:18   #83
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Re: Cov. opping

The way co ops work now is not the way it should imo.

Told spinner the same during beta, but he still thought it is fine like it is

The co ops attacks work now it looks more like chicken attacks to me, why ?
Well you attack a planet without the chance to loose something yourself.
In a normal battle both side loose (not all the times) some ships.
In co ops only 1 side looses something and the other side stays hidden (no coords shown in news if succesfull) so a real chicken attack as it was called during betas
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Unread 16 Dec 2003, 14:31   #84
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
good point
i''ll put in a word that we should find some way to hardcode it so that unallied planets can't be attacked against. i mean... a poor unallied planet has almost no hope of getting def if the attacker is big enough. depending on how friendly the galaxy is ofc.
There is the 30% size on target rule....
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Unread 16 Dec 2003, 15:34   #85
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Re: Cov. opping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
They should put in some kind of suicide bombing ship where if you send it to attack someone more than 5x your size they automatically lose 43.2% of their ships; that would teach those successful players not to grow too big!
YES! WAR GAMES ARE SO EVUL!!!
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Unread 16 Dec 2003, 17:25   #86
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Re: Cov. opping

Just to reiterate:

YOU WERE ALL TOLD THIS WOULD HAPPEN.

What did you clowns do, you all followed Spinner with blind faith and gave him your money, telling everyone who pointed out the obvious flaws in PA X they were whining and should quit PA. Well done guys, there's no sense bitching about it now you losers all accepted the beta and pretended everything would be ok once it got running now you have to live with it, though of us who were smart enough to take your advice can enjoy the fresh air.
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Unread 16 Dec 2003, 23:21   #87
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Re: Cov. opping

go away hicks.
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Unread 18 Dec 2003, 03:03   #88
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Re: Cov. opping

look, this shouldn't suprise anyone. I pissed off an entire galaxy when I started my round just becuase I kept doing it. I don't see the problem. either your co-opper has some uber l33t sense of spies, or you guys have piss-poor security. I can't get more then 20 agents through any 1 time and I am like 70k value. I started 1/3 of the way into the round and co-opped my way via resource transfer into a decent ranking position with nearly 2k roids. Then round went to shit so I suicided myself down so I cold co-op the s*** out of people :P it's fun, and now I get to piss other people off BTW I'm making like 3mill each resource every day. thats like having 1500 roids, except I'm not a huge target :P
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