Declaration of War

[Alki]

Originally Posted by lokken

Even so, it doesn't move away from the fact that you've ****ed up on many other levels.

If there's anyone you should be chastising it's the Angels HC who got themselves into this mess.

can u explain what this 'mess' is i would like very much to know

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by Alki

can u explain what this 'mess' is i would like very much to know

This mess?

[Game']

And it all started so well (((

Poor rich ((

[Gumbie]

Sometimes I wish all the coherant and astute HC weren't so coherant and astute. Then we wouldn't all be on 1 side :/

[Holyboy]

you're classing yourself as coherent and astute?

no comment

[Gumbie]

I'm not on the side that had a member alliance losing 25% of their roids in one night.

[Alki]

in one night yes, but i bet collectively Angels have not lost more roids than a few of the others

[Treveler]

Originally Posted by Alki

in one night yes, but i bet collectively Angels have not lost more roids than a few of the others

Yes and instead of falling back and regroup, Angels "give up" winning and start a suicide mission. This whole mess could probably been over and done with by now and we could all set out attention on that #1 spot again. Unfortunately that is not so!

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Treveler

Yes and instead of falling back and regroup, Angels "give up" winning and start a suicide mission. This whole mess could probably been over and done with by now and we could all set out attention on that #1 spot again. Unfortunately that is not so!

Don't believe everything written on AD. You all seem to talk about Angels quitting and folding and no longer care to play etc ... which idiot came up with such things?

giving up is not something we know, so rest assure we won't.

[Gumbie]

I hope they don't suicide this early. And if I recall correctly, coming back from serious defecit isn't impossible in this game.

[Treveler]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Don't believe everything written on AD. You all seem to talk about Angels quitting and folding and no longer care to play etc ... which idiot came up with such things?

giving up is not something we know, so rest assure we won't.

That idiot would be you sir! You made it sound like (in pm last night) you had no chance for #1 anymore and therefore would focus on 1up. And when I said winning I meant ending #1, not beat 1up.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

giving up is not something we know, so rest assure we won't.

FAnG anyone?

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Treveler

Well you did in pm last night. You made it sound like you had no chance for #1 anymore and therefore would focus on 1up. And when I said winning I meant ending #1, not beat 1up.

We all have our dissappointed moments don't we. And yes, winning this round won't be for us but it never was an option anyway. Reaching our expectations is still doable, be it harder atm but not impossible.

and no, our only goal isn't to beat 1up. Whatever other pple make you believe or whatever rumour you seem to prefer ...

theRat, lame dig. We're not FAnG, if you're too retarded to see that then that's your problem (sorry for the harsh words).

[Cayl]

if you don't want people to be confused, maybe you shouldn't hang out in #fang... and maybe pick a name thats less of a tie in.

[Holyboy]

if 1up decides to concentrate completely on us and let the other allies grow then I don't see how we can be the ones accused of political suicide...

[Treveler]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

and no, our only goal isn't to beat 1up. Whatever other pple make you believe or whatever rumour you seem to prefer ...

Well call me a cuddely codoo with cream on top, but I definitely got that impression from the thread starter.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Holyboy

if 1up decides to concentrate completely on us and let the other allies grow then I don't see how we can be the ones accused of political suicide...

Are we focusing 100% on you?

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Cayl

if you don't want people to be confused, maybe you shouldn't hang out in #fang... and maybe pick a name thats less of a tie in.

#Angels is regged by some inactive dude who gets online once a month which is enough for him to keep the rights over the channel

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Treveler

Well call me a cuddely codoo with cream on top, but I definitely got that impression from the thread starter.

Are you selectively deaf? ifnot, then read what I told you in pm and stop this nonsence thankyou.

[Treveler]

Originally Posted by Holyboy

if 1up decides to concentrate completely on us and let the other allies grow then I don't see how we can be the ones accused of political suicide...

I believe that was mainly done to prove a point. If you join the "enemy", our side have the power to hurt you badly.

[Treveler]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Are you selectively deaf?

I dont read with my ears sir!

It might be a good idea to share that info with you HC too next time.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Treveler

It might be a good idea to share that info with you HC too next time.

Thx for reminding me, didn't occur to me ...

[Kree]

i think WP/HR and Exil really watch this thread with a lot of amusement

[Synthetic_Sid]

Originally Posted by Holyboy

if 1up decides to concentrate completely on us and let the other allies grow then I don't see how we can be the ones accused of political suicide...

I agree totally.

Now read my very first post in this thread - and you'll see i state there that we'll continue to set our targets based on the political situation and the attractiveness of targets whether or not Angels solely target us or not. We won't let some declaration of war from an alliance we're already fighting impact our strategic/tactical decisions.

Last night I'd estimate 1/4 of 1up's attacks were on Angels - definitely no more than 1/3. Because you didn't warrant any more attention than that.

Rest assured: we won't commit political suicide as a response to one of your HC posting in the heat of the moment. I've never said we will focus on Angels for the rest of the round, no 1up member has said we will - and we won't. As with all hostile alliances we'll target you purely based on the level of irritation you cause us, the attractiveness of you as targets and the political benefit of doing so dictates.

[CryBaby]

Originally Posted by Kree

i think WP/HR and Exil really watch this thread with a lot of amusement

I think they do

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Are you selectively deaf? ifnot, then read what I told you in pm and stop this nonsence thankyou.

You see Kjeldoran, this is where your entire arugments fall down.

There's no consistency in whatever Angels HC say, and it's pretty easy to manipulate or use (depends which perspective you are posting from) what one angels HC says against the other.

Seriously, you need to get better at PR. If you need help, me and my associates are available at reasonable rates. We'll be happy to set up a paypal to receive payment.

[Alki]

Originally Posted by TheRat

FAnG anyone?

elysium ne1?

[MotoX]

r11, we challenged ourselves to win without blocking. We consider this point proved.
r12, we challenged ourselves to win at 2/3 strength. We consider ths point proved.
r13, our motives were not publically declared. We saw which way the wind was blowing and adjusted our plans accordingly. We're not denying or obscuring the fact that we're in a block.





Or you could say; we adjust to the situation in hand, we block if we have to – to win is everything!

Fewer lines same meaning!

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by lokken

You see Kjeldoran, this is where your entire arugments fall down.

There's no consistency in whatever Angels HC say, and it's pretty easy to manipulate or use (depends which perspective you are posting from) what one angels HC says against the other.

Seriously, you need to get better at PR. If you need help, me and my associates are available at reasonable rates. We'll be happy to set up a paypal to receive payment.

You very well know this is an isolated, one time, situation. It's not like Angels has ever posted on AD before nway. You as always just make it sound more important then it is.

Tbh this thread is the result of a poor initial post and then a sequence of trolling, flaming, clueless behavior and bad modding. But why would this thread be any different from another then I'd ask ... Isn't this always the case?

And yes, our PR sucks, we got no political masterminds in Angels. Nor has for instance ND or any alliance bar 1.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by Alki

elysium ne1?

Beer anyone?

[Alki]

Originally Posted by lokken

You see Kjeldoran, this is where your entire arugments fall down.

There's no consistency in whatever Angels HC say, and it's pretty easy to manipulate or use (depends which perspective you are posting from) what one angels HC says against the other.

Seriously, you need to get better at PR. If you need help, me and my associates are available at reasonable rates. We'll be happy to set up a paypal to receive payment.

because your the best there is, ur views are unbiased and u stick to the facts. Go for it Kj

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by Alki

because your the best there is, ur views are unbiased and u stick to the facts. Go for it Kj

Having a go at Lokken (who isn't even playing this round) isn't going to get you anywhere. His view on Angels is uncompromising, but there's very little about it that you could seriously disagree with.

Whilst I'm sure Angels don't want to hear advice, certainly not publicly, it would be wise to accept that mistakes were made and that perhaps joining a block wasn't a smart move.

The way I see it, Angels were (in part at least) motivated by a desire to "come off the fence" - someone mentioned earlier that they feared losing the respect of other alliances by not taking a side. The decision to take a side was not an entirely bad one; on the face of it, Angels joined a competent block that looked like having a good chance of winning. The problem is that they would always be the latecomers to the block, the first to be kicked and roided once the good targets run out. And, by being the latecomers they also drew the short straw in targetting, having to hit 1up and run a substantial risk of retaliation.

A far better tactic would have been to play the other blocks off against each other and exploit the divisions between them, perhaps assisting the losing side from time to time in order to maintain a balance of power. Of course, that's quite hard to do in practice and requires excellent timing and judgement, not to mention a fair bit of luck, as is always the case when depending on the actions of others.

Ultimately, the opinions of armchair AD posters like me are not what will determine Angels policy. You guys have to do that for yourselves. But that doesn't mean that you should flame or insult people who are offering genuine constructive criticism. Nor should you reply "we don't do politics", because every alliance has to do politics. This round is far from over, and Angels can still recover a strong position. I won't try to tell Angels how they should do this, but I think some reflection and consideration of the last few days might be helpful in deciding the way forward.

[Helix]

Originally Posted by noah02

I beleive pilkara will be watched over the next few days to see how things are going.

This has been the most roid swapping round i have ever seen.

Sandmans > Pilkara

[noah02]

Originally Posted by Helix

Sandmans > Pilkara

Yes i know :P
Sandman = The l33t

Hiya sandman btw fear my harpys :P

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by ComradeRob

Having a go at Lokken (who isn't even playing this round) isn't going to get you anywhere. His view on Angels is uncompromising, but there's very little about it that you could seriously disagree with.

Whilst I'm sure Angels don't want to hear advice, certainly not publicly, it would be wise to accept that mistakes were made and that perhaps joining a block wasn't a smart move.

The way I see it, Angels were (in part at least) motivated by a desire to "come off the fence" - someone mentioned earlier that they feared losing the respect of other alliances by not taking a side. The decision to take a side was not an entirely bad one; on the face of it, Angels joined a competent block that looked like having a good chance of winning. The problem is that they would always be the latecomers to the block, the first to be kicked and roided once the good targets run out. And, by being the latecomers they also drew the short straw in targetting, having to hit 1up and run a substantial risk of retaliation.

A far better tactic would have been to play the other blocks off against each other and exploit the divisions between them, perhaps assisting the losing side from time to time in order to maintain a balance of power. Of course, that's quite hard to do in practice and requires excellent timing and judgement, not to mention a fair bit of luck, as is always the case when depending on the actions of others.

Ultimately, the opinions of armchair AD posters like me are not what will determine Angels policy. You guys have to do that for yourselves. But that doesn't mean that you should flame or insult people who are offering genuine constructive criticism. Nor should you reply "we don't do politics", because every alliance has to do politics. This round is far from over, and Angels can still recover a strong position. I won't try to tell Angels how they should do this, but I think some reflection and consideration of the last few days might be helpful in deciding the way forward.

The point is Lokken offers no constructive criticism. I'm sorry but he's a very biassed poster and will always be one, just as I will be a biassed poster aswell. I know Lokken is your friend, so I understand you're trying to "protect" him.
I wouldn't call any of his posts contructive, in this thread.

99% of the AD posters have never been in a command position and have no clue what it's all about, so taking advice from pple here is not needed. If I want advice, I'll pm the pple and ask.

I think I fairly agreed that mistakes have been made but as usual, AD makes everything look 50 times worse. I understand 1up uses this thread as it's great PR for them but pple should learn not to exaggerate all the time.

Mistakes have been made, just as ND, LCH and co made mistakes last round. It won't kill us and I wouldn't call it a screw up either. You all act like making mistakes has never happened before ... Even 1up makes them.

[Alki]

AD is dead, every1 has to squeeze dry the new threads or we'd go mentally insane

[Holyboy]

Originally Posted by lokken

You see Kjeldoran, this is where your entire arugments fall down.

There's no consistency in whatever Angels HC say, and it's pretty easy to manipulate or use (depends which perspective you are posting from) what one angels HC says against the other.

Seriously, you need to get better at PR. If you need help, me and my associates are available at reasonable rates. We'll be happy to set up a paypal to receive payment.

I'm not Angels HC and don't speak for them in any way on the forums, i'm merely trying to put across the situation as i see it and as i was involved in.

I post my own personal opinion and comments, obviously these will be about Angels as that's my home atm but they in no way represent Angels...

[hook]

Originally Posted by Gumbie

I hope they don't suicide this early.

I would strongly suggest they do not suicide at all, and leave that to the professionals.

Trust me, we're good at that stuff.

More on-topic: I can't say I really care alot about this "war" Angels started against 1up, looking at the alliance rankings this is not part of the bigger picture at all. I wish Angels the best of luck, and I think they'll need it.

For now; let your ships do the talking, the "discussion" in this thread is absolutely leading nowhere.

Hook

[Orion Treet]

Omg this thread is great, hasn't been this amusing on since PAX began Well, maybe Zhil's slipup

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Alki

elysium ne1?

What a fantastic insult you found there. Now tell me which round it happened, please.

[Synthetic_Sid]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Mistakes have been made, just as ND, LCH and co made mistakes last round. It won't kill us and I wouldn't call it a screw up either. You all act like making mistakes has never happened before ... Even 1up makes them.

Of course mistakes have been made by every alliance. But most alliances, when they make a mistake, don't get a HC to make a post on AD that invites the rest of the universe to laugh at them. That's why this one is different - because a HC of the alliance who made the mistake decided that it warranted being discussed and analysed on AD.

[lokken]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

1)The point is Lokken offers no constructive criticism. I'm sorry but he's a very biassed poster and will always be one, just as I will be a biassed poster aswell. I know Lokken is your friend, so I understand you're trying to "protect" him.
I wouldn't call any of his posts contructive, in this thread.

2) 99% of the AD posters have never been in a command position and have no clue what it's all about, so taking advice from pple here is not needed. If I want advice, I'll pm the pple and ask.

3) I think I fairly agreed that mistakes have been made but as usual, AD makes everything look 50 times worse. I understand 1up uses this thread as it's great PR for them but pple should learn not to exaggerate all the time.

1) The fact is, had Angels not exposed their litany of errors to me via pm or indeed on the forum, I wouldn't be slaughtering you utterly, not because of who you are, as quite frankly i don't care, but for what you actually did and revealed to me either personally or in the public domain. The impression i have got from FAnG/Angels whoever is that I'm only biased when I decide against them in my favour. There are a few occaisons where i've disagreed with 1up, and in fact i've banned more members of ND (2) than any other alliance. Anyone who i even thought was hinting at preferential treatment got told to **** off.

Please differentiate: my modding is totally separate from what i post: I reserve the right to have an opinion and constructive criticism, but on the other hand there is the persona of Lok as a moderator who says what is OK and what isn't within the rules.

When 1up complain, I get a civilised forum pm, or some negative rep. I send them a PM explaining why i've done x and y. They understand, attempt to clarify their views, and in fact seemed inherently cooperative when I said their posters were shit for reasons x, y and z. When you complain i get an irate PM, either on here and on IRC, and often find myself having to explain myself twice. So I shall explain it here, for the last time, because I think it needs to be reiterated one final time

Originally Posted by lokken

I am afraid i cannot do that. If someone posts a thread that's negative to their own interests, it's their problem and it's up to them to delete it, because it is an interesting active thread with a bit of the confrontation of old that i (along with many users of AD) like to see.

My advice is that either you tell Fyodor to delete the thread, or dismiss him from command. In any case, I'll be saving it and placing it on the wiki because it's a major event of round 13.

Note: I'm not refusing to moderate the thread, and i will run the rule over it again, but I think "declarations of war" are fine, and if people make bad PR posts, that's their own perrogative.

Cheers,
Lok

This is the final time I will be putting my view forward on this thread. I do not expect any further contact from you about it.

2) As i've been in command positions from round 2 to round 6 from the level of newbie alliance to an alliance of the stature of Deus Ex Machina, I'd hope to think I'm in the 1% you can take seriously. If i'm just a troll to you, as far as I'm concerned you are a player of inferior quality to myself, and while I'm not the best player in PA (infact i was very average high commander, and was never really cut out to be part of the top crust), I've done a few things that would have worn down people's patience long before mine ran out, and a few people who are good and that I respect (whatever their background in the game) seem to want to sit down and talk to me about PA, which i take as a glowing compliment. You still have much to learn, but I am sure if you actually read posts from players of vast experience, you'll learn.

3) The only people to blame are yourselves here by posting a shit piece of PR. Seriously, if you don't accept you've made mistakes, you'll **** up again and again.

You sir, are becoming of great irritation to me, and other users of this game and forum. Please desist, learn to be polite and most important of all, learn from your mistakes. I learned, and quit while I was behind.

Yours sincerely,

Lok

P.S. I only have one ass.

[_Kila_]

Originally Posted by Gumbie

coherant

. Gumb0r. You mock me for not using proper English and you cant even spell coherent. o.O

[NitinA]

Originally Posted by Kree

i think WP/HR and Exil really watch this thread with a lot of amusement

You have no idea.

-NitinA

[Barrow|Pony]

Not having a crackerjack decent public relations isn't something you should just wave off Kj. So much in this game rides how well you can manage your alliances reputation to gain or lose influence on the course of the game. If you burn your political bridges, you're at a distinct disadvantage.

Certain alliances come off as reasonable and level-headed, some don't. Guess who gets the worm.

[Legator]

Originally Posted by Alki

AD is dead, every1 has to squeeze dry the new threads or we'd go mentally insane

actually it wasnt ever different (imo).

and the last days showed that ad isnt dead....

[Rumad]

Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony

Not having a crackerjack decent public relations isn't something you should just wave off Kj. So much in this game rides how well you can manage your alliances reputation to gain or lose influence on the course of the game. If you burn your political bridges, you're at a distinct disadvantage.

Certain alliances come off as reasonable and level-headed, some don't. Guess who gets the worm.

i disagree with this.

Politics always has been nothing really to do with how your allance is perceived, its more of a pissing competition between people who think they can argue better than others.

No one really takes any notice of AD - not members or hc - if they did FAnG would not have been a integral part of PA political/war scene for 5 rounds.

PA is PA and AD is AD both are pretty separate imho.

[Cooling]

Originally Posted by Rumad

i disagree with this.

Politics always has been nothing really to do with how your allance is perceived, its more of a pissing competition between people who think they can argue better than others.

No one really takes any notice of AD - not members or hc - if they did FAnG would not have been a integral part of PA political/war scene for 5 rounds.

PA is PA and AD is AD both are pretty separate imho.

I disagree with your disagreement - paradoxically reinforcing your point I know.

There has and always will be a place for AD discussions to effect the politics of the game, usualy as a result of unbelievable acts of incompetance by members or occasionaly HC of certain alliances.

Arguably AD is just another filter through which politics is discussed, and perhaps it is not as relevant as irc, but it still has its place.

[ComradeRob]

Originally Posted by Rumad

PA is PA and AD is AD both are pretty separate imho.

What's discussed on AD reflects what happens in PA. Angels lost a lot of roids for what some perceive to be a political mistake, so that is discussed on AD. It wsn't the AD discussion which caused Angels to lose roids, or caused their actions to be regarded negatively by other alliances. The AD posts just reflect what people think about these things.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by lokken

1) The fact is, had Angels not exposed their litany of errors to me via pm or indeed on the forum, I wouldn't be slaughtering you utterly, not because of who you are, as quite frankly i don't care, but for what you actually did and revealed to me either personally or in the public domain. The impression i have got from FAnG/Angels whoever is that I'm only biased when I decide against them in my favour. There are a few occaisons where i've disagreed with 1up, and in fact i've banned more members of ND (2) than any other alliance. Anyone who i even thought was hinting at preferential treatment got told to **** off.

Please differentiate: my modding is totally separate from what i post: I reserve the right to have an opinion and constructive criticism, but on the other hand there is the persona of Lok as a moderator who says what is OK and what isn't within the rules.

When 1up complain, I get a civilised forum pm, or some negative rep. I send them a PM explaining why i've done x and y. They understand, attempt to clarify their views, and in fact seemed inherently cooperative when I said their posters were shit for reasons x, y and z. When you complain i get an irate PM, either on here and on IRC, and often find myself having to explain myself twice. So I shall explain it here, for the last time, because I think it needs to be reiterated one final time



This is the final time I will be putting my view forward on this thread. I do not expect any further contact from you about it.

2) As i've been in command positions from round 2 to round 6 from the level of newbie alliance to an alliance of the stature of Deus Ex Machina, I'd hope to think I'm in the 1% you can take seriously. If i'm just a troll to you, as far as I'm concerned you are a player of inferior quality to myself, and while I'm not the best player in PA (infact i was very average high commander, and was never really cut out to be part of the top crust), I've done a few things that would have worn down people's patience long before mine ran out, and a few people who are good and that I respect (whatever their background in the game) seem to want to sit down and talk to me about PA, which i take as a glowing compliment. You still have much to learn, but I am sure if you actually read posts from players of vast experience, you'll learn.

3) The only people to blame are yourselves here by posting a shit piece of PR. Seriously, if you don't accept you've made mistakes, you'll **** up again and again.

You sir, are becoming of great irritation to me, and other users of this game and forum. Please desist, learn to be polite and most important of all, learn from your mistakes. I learned, and quit while I was behind.

Yours sincerely,

Lok

P.S. I only have one ass.

first of all I suggest you READ the posts aswell, I've admitted more then once that we've made mistakes. You however say I don't admit making mistakes ... I think you're not capable of reading a post when I hear such a comment.

Yes you belong to that 1%, I didn't imply at any moment that you've never been a command person, I've only said that your criticisme is far from constructive. The 99% is meant to the MOST posters, I'm sure those in command position now or before KNOW I didn't mean them ...

Learn to be polite? given the shit quality of this thread and the replies of some posters, I've been extremely polite. I did at no point troll or insult a person (bar TheRat for his louzy comment).

If one should be talking about not respecting the rules, it's more about you pasting a private message I sent you on the boards. Fact that I sent it private means exactly that. Guess you didn't respect that.

I've run enough alliances and I've been in the best but also most shity situations so I don't think I need to learn things, bar from the mistakes everyone now and then makes. Infact, your comment about that is rather insulting and degrading, yet you claim I should be more polite?

I never claimed you shouldn't have your own opinion, I however think the poster Lokken and the mod Lok are influencing eachother too much, but that's my PERSONAL opinion.
Fact that you've banned more ND pple here then from another alliance doesn't say much about your objectivity, it says more about the quality of their posts (those you banned).

Several things you claim in this quote are untrue or are based on stuff you didn't read properly (as in the part where I admit making mistakes). So I suggest, instead of acting like you need to teach me something, to READ what I wrote and then react on it. your post would have been different if you did imo.

rgds Kj