Supplements & stuff (again...;o)

[Androme]

I know in the past, remembering the convos with Zar and dj & few others that even although I google search for answers, they seem to be wrong most of the time. So here's another batch that's been brewing up.

Does it matter 'when' you take vitamins and minerals just as long as they're had by the end of the day?

Does Aspartme prohibit neuron transmitter function and learning? Dj said that there is more Aspartme (or as 1 of the amino acids, phenalynine?) in Milk and other foods than to worry about it in Soft Drinks. However, what about sweetners (they're all Aspartme based afaik) ? I have ace metablism and I do a vigorous exercise (Air Alert 3) 3 times a week (nearly finished the 3 month thing) so calorie intake isn't a concern to be honest.

Green Tea - apparently it contains flavonoids found in vegetables and fresh fruit. Does it have the same benefits?

Last but not least, I know supplements aren't wise (these pharmceutical companies need to make profits) but is it dangerous to supplement for more than ie: a month at a time? I stopped all my previous supplement crap. I get about of the RDA (I realise this is only an average figure for average height etc.) of B Vitamins, Calcium, Iron and Vitamin E from breakfast cereal and a priobiotic drink (apparently it doesn't actually help anyway but it's for the vitamins part). 100% of Vitamin C I obtain from the daily serving of Tropicana and 2 daily servings (or more) of Ribena Light (I know I know but being an athlete tends to show higher intakes of Vitamin C as being more beneficial). Now, this means I lack Vitamin K, D and A. I always take Ribena Light with Evian water by the way which I don't necessarily drink 1.5 litres a day but round about 750ml-1litre if possible.

This is where the question of supplements comes in. The Sportsflex Seven Seas branch fills up the remaining 50% of Calcium, B vitamins, Vitamin E and Iron leaving me with 100-125% of the RDA's (also has Chronidin, Glucosamine which occur naturally apparently within the body & Ginger & Ginseng). Now accordingly, supplementing for more than a month at time means that the body will be dependant upon these tabs to withdrawn the nutrients and will become unable to withdraw them from food. Am ok with what I do as I am mixing the 2? I'm neither fully dependant upon my breakfast and lunch but neither fully depedant on the seven seas supplement either.

Lastly, following on with the supplements thing. I also take Whey Protein supplement mixed with milk in a blender to help with post-training providing all the branch-chain amino acids etc. Is it wise to continue this pre-training and at other times to counter-balance the times when I intake high-carbs? (to help deregulate the insulin uptake and help with energy levels) I ask this bearing in mind the information about the "not supplementing for more than a month at a time" query I have posted previously - obtained from the British Nutrition Foundation.

Thanks.

[Ste]

you're meant to take supplements with a meal because you need solids to help absorb them.
or something like that.

Dunno about the rest of your questions but Aspartame is pretty bad for you afaik.

[JonnyBGood]

Many supplements are perfectly fine androme. The keyword, as with most things, is moderation.

[onetwothree]

I recommend taking cyanide Androme, it will help the world.

[Androme]

Originally Posted by onetwothree

I recommend taking cyanide Androme, it will help the world.

it doesn't sound like you've tried it yet - I await your results Idler

[roadrunner_0]

not all sweetners are aspartame based, you also have sodium saccarine (sp?) ones
yes, aspartame is bad for you, and yes, its because of the phenylalanine, however, you would have to take in silly amounts of the stuff for it to do any harm, although it does build up over time as its quite hard to get rid of (from what i remember, it was a while back that i did this)

as to the rest of the questions

Originally Posted by the great and wise Jonny

Many supplements are perfectly fine androme. The keyword, as with most things, is moderation.

sp long as you are not regularly taking massive O/D's of your various vitamins etc, you should be fine, and if you are fairly active, having supplements is generally quite helpful

[Androme]

Thanks dude. If it does build up then why do people recommend taking milk (I know, rich in Calcium etc.)? As it contains phenylalanine. Infact, a lot of foods products I consume do :|

By massive O/D's you mean overdoses yes? I take 2 of the Sportsflex tablets every other day and sometimes I take a multi-vitamin chewy thing which is sweet (reminds me of blackcurrants) to cover the lack of Vitamin A & D I consume (only source of foods I consume is the butter)

[I am Idler]

Originally Posted by Androme2

it doesn't sound like you've tried it yet - I await your results Idler

what the **** are you talking about

[TheRat]

Some supplements are best taken before you go to sleep, mainly b-complexes, zink and magnesium. (ZMA), this is because it affects your beautysleep, and allows for better restitution and increases the general quality of resting.

Also, milk is known to decrease the efficiency of the body's ability to use vitamins and minerals, hence it is not recommended to take these in combination with milk.

Supplements (to a certain degree) are not dangerous. In fact, in todays world, a lot of people NEED supplements, as their diet is far from sufficient. I recommend everyone to take multivitamins everyday for the rest of their lives, as the likelyhood of you missing out on important minerals and vitamins is very present. Drop the supplements with iron if you are male, you dont bleed enough to need it (unless you have a condition ofcourse.) :-).

-TheRat

[djbass]

Phenylalanine gets a bad rap, it's only bad for you if you happen to have phenylketonuria and your body can not process it properly. It is an amino acid, and we need amino acids to stay healthy.

Take a look at the charts here and you'll realise you probably consume more of it than you are aware. So don't worry about it for no good reason.


As far as vitamin suppliments go, they're called suppliments for a reason. It's very likely most of us are missing vitamins of one kind or the other in our diets. As long as you are taking them with other foods I don't see a problem. You should not however rely on them totally to get all your required intake, mix it with a balanced diet for best results.

[roadrunner_0]

Originally Posted by djbass

Phenylalanine gets a bad rap, it's only bad for you if you happen to have phenylketonuria and your body can not process it properly. It is an amino acid, and we need amino acids to stay healthy.

in that case why is it that EVERYTHING with it in needs to have it clearly labeled? too much phenylalanine is bad for ANYONE

you do need to have a truly RIDICULOUS amount of it in your body before it does you any harm though (sorry, cant remember the actual amounts etc, its been about 7 years since i had a real look at it)

[Yahwe]

In order to help you I need you to answer a few questions

1) is that avatar a picture of you?
2) you say you're an athlete? how often do you 'work out'?
3) how tall are you?
4) what's your telephone number

[Nodrog]

The RDA is crap, ignore it. 'Some' vitamins may be dangerous to take in large amounts (I think vitamin A might be), but the water soluble ones (B,C etc) are fine. In any case, you can go beyond the RDA on pretty much everything with no real worries.

Green Tea has moderate benefits, but nothing really significant (I recall reading it works at something like 75 calories burned a day). I dont really think theres a point in taking fat burning supplements unless you've got fairly low body fat already, but if youre going to do it you should just bite the bullet and go for ephedra.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Androme2

ILastly, following on with the supplements thing. I also take Whey Protein supplement mixed with milk in a blender to help with post-training providing all the branch-chain amino acids etc. Is it wise to continue this pre-training and at other times to counter-balance the times when I intake high-carbs? (to help deregulate the insulin uptake and help with energy levels) I ask this bearing in mind the information about the "not supplementing for more than a month at a time" query I have posted previously - obtained from the British Nutrition Foundation.

I'm not sure what 'training' means here, but if it pertains to lifting weights then you should read this.

[Androme]

I do Air Alert 3 on alternating selected 3 days a week on top of that, basketball training on a Tuesday & Thursday (in a team) and Parkour training every Sunday, either visiting a gym or going out and practicing it around Waterloo, LoF etc.

Thanks Nod but I already happen to know what to eat after and before workouts. Low GI slowly releasing carbs which I take in the form of 2 turkey-sandwhiches and a glass of milk an hour or 2 before I train. After, I take the whey-protein supplement and that's it. Anyone else that does take the whey protein supplement be weary that some forms are less potent than others so be weary.

Yahwe: I've basically answered all your questions - yes and 5 ft 11. My number is 0797-yahoo.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Androme2

Thanks Nod but I already happen to know what to eat after and before workouts. .

Apparently not, if you're drinking milk with your whey afterwards.

[Androme]

You need protein and low carbs after a workout. I'm not going for strength don't forget which that applies to (I'm not doing bodybuilding), just to rebuild depleated protein supplies.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Androme2

You need protein and low carbs after a workout. I'm not going for strength don't forget which that applies to (I'm not doing bodybuilding), just to rebuild depleated protein supplies.

Yes but the entire point of whey is that it gets absorbed quickly, hence why you take it after a workout when your body most needs the nutrients. Milk slows down the protein absorption, defeating the whole purpose.

[Androme]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Yes but the entire point of whey is that it gets absorbed quickly, hence why you take it after a workout when your body most needs the nutrients. Milk slows down the protein absorption, defeating the whole purpose.

You can still gain beneficial results by taking the whey protein & milk mixture within an hour of a workout. Immediately following a work-out, I take the mixture. If milk slows down the process by over an hour, sure.

My issue is that the strawberry flavoured whey tastes icky mixed with water or other juices.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Androme2

You need protein and low carbs after a workout. I'm not going for strength don't forget which that applies to (I'm not doing bodybuilding), just to rebuild depleated protein supplies.

You dont rebuild depleated protein supplies, cos there are none. You rebuild depleated glycogen supplies in muscles/liver, hence the need for low carbs. The protein is needed because you have busted up a lot of tissue during the workout, starting the bodies protein synthetsis, thus needing additional protein to rebuild.

-TheRat

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Yes but the entire point of whey is that it gets absorbed quickly, hence why you take it after a workout when your body most needs the nutrients. Milk slows down the protein absorption, defeating the whole purpose.

Actually, the best proteinsupplements supply a mixture of slow and fast working proteins, cos you need both of them. So milk isnt THAT bad (milk contains a lot of protein itself). This does not apply to milk combined with vitamins/minerals, however.

[Androme]

Originally Posted by TheRat

You dont rebuild depleated protein supplies, cos there are none. You rebuild depleated glycogen supplies in muscles/liver, hence the need for low carbs. The protein is needed because you have busted up a lot of tissue during the workout, starting the bodies protein synthetsis, thus needing additional protein to rebuild.

-TheRat

Ah thanks dude

Btw, do you recommend any protein intake before bed at night?

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by TheRat

Actually, the best proteinsupplements supply a mixture of slow and fast working proteins, cos you need both of them.

Not directly after a workout.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Androme2

Ah thanks dude

Btw, do you recommend any protein intake before bed at night?

Yes. The body does most of its restitution while sleeping, so slow working protein is good before bed. If you are trying to lose bodyfat, steer away from carbs before bed - the body will instead use its liverglycogen. If followed by a 20 minute walk before breakfast, the body will utilize fat as its primary energy source, and you will have a better day in general. WHen you then eat carbs for breakfast, they'll go straight to your liver/muscles, as opposed to elevating the glucose/insulin lvl in your bloodstream, avoiding the dreaded bloodglucose ups and downs.

-TheRat

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Not directly after a workout.

Directly after workout, you need low GI carbs to fill up depleted glucogen storage. Within 1-2 hours of the workout, you need protein to supply the body with the required "building stones" to repair the damage done to its tissue.

[Nodrog]

Yeah, you should eat again 1-2 hours afterwards, but I'm talking about straight after.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Yeah, you should eat again 1-2 hours afterwards, but I'm talking about straight after.

Then we agree :-)

Straight after you go for pure carbs, preferably dextrose.

[Nodrog]

It's generally recomended to take whey in addition to carbs straight afterwards, for optimality. Read the above link I posted, or alternatively this study on pubmed (although admittedly there are also studies that say it doesnt matter!)

[TheRat]

Thats very interesting, Ive always read/been told that there is no need to rush the protein.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

The RDA is crap, ignore it.

do not listen to this man.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by TheRat

Thats very interesting, Ive always read/been told that there is no need to rush the protein.

Well, assuming you are correct about your body needing it 1-2 hours afterwards, if you were to eat any protein other than pure whey around that time, it wouldnt get broken down fully until a few hours after that anyway (as far as I know).

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Well, assuming you are correct about your body needing it 1-2 hours afterwards, if you were to eat any protein other than pure whey around that time, it wouldnt get broken down fully until a few hours after that anyway (as far as I know).

Hence the need for both fast/slow protein

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

do not listen to this man.

The RDA's are generally based around the needs of sedentary individuals rather than those involved in athletics and other physical activity, and tend to be just the minimum required for the body to function properly (for instance the RDA for vitamin C is the bare minimum you need to avoid contracting scurvy, whereas several have claimed that there are benefits to be had from dosages well above the RDA).

edit: scurvy != survey

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by TheRat

Hence the need for both fast/slow protein

As far as I know, if you have both fast and slow protein together, the 'fast' generally wins and slows down the digestion of the compound as a whole.

[TheRat]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

do not listen to this man.

The sad fact is that limits/recommendations set by government/health departments is commonly far of the optimal dosages, when it comes vitamins and minerals. Im not 100% sure what RDA is, but from my googling it seems to be a table of dosage recommendations. The fact is that we are talking about active athletes, who require a lot more of "everything" than a fat, lazy tv-abuser who spends 95% of his day sitting down.

[djbass]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

in that case why is it that EVERYTHING with it in needs to have it clearly labeled? too much phenylalanine is bad for ANYONE

you do need to have a truly RIDICULOUS amount of it in your body before it does you any harm though (sorry, cant remember the actual amounts etc, its been about 7 years since i had a real look at it)

Look, I'll simply break it too you and say YOU ARE WRONG!

The requirement of the label 'Contains Phenylalanine' is strictly so that people that do suffer the rare disease can be aware of what the product contains and hence not accidently harm themselves.

Many products also carry the warning 'May contain traces of peanuts', OH NO! we're all going to be killed by those toxic peanuts. No, they include the warning because some people with an allergy to peanuts could end up in a serious condition if they ate their favourite snack.

http://www.snopes.com/toxins/aspartame.asp

from the above snopes link:

Even daily large doses of the high-intensity sweetener aspartame, also known as NutraSweet, had no adverse effect on study subjects' health and well-being, a visiting scientist at MIT reported in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition last week.

[roadrunner_0]

Originally Posted by djbass

Look, I'll simply break it too you and say YOU ARE WRONG!

The requirement of the label 'Contains Phenylalanine' is strictly so that people that do suffer the rare disease can be aware of what the product contains and hence not accidently harm themselves.

Many products also carry the warning 'May contain traces of peanuts', OH NO! we're all going to be killed by those toxic peanuts. No, they include the warning because some people with an allergy to peanuts could end up in a serious condition if they ate their favourite snack.

http://www.snopes.com/toxins/aspartame.asp

from the above snopes link:

thats a completely irrelevant point, i have never claimed that phenylalanine causes cancer or face aids or anything, i just said that too much is bad for you, which it is.

EDIT: look, i can find links that back me up too!

[djbass]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0

thats a completely irrelevant point, i have never claimed that phenylalanine causes cancer or face aids or anything, i just said that too much is bad for you, which it is.

EDIT: look, i can find links that back me up too!

It's no more bad for you in large doses than any other substance that exists out there. You're just as likely to overdose on vitamin C as phenylalanine.

Nothing in that article backs up your point, it only states that people with an abnormal condition that gives them a low tolerance to phenylalanine will indeed suffer side-effects from its consumption. That's almost the same as what I said. Infact it makes no mention at all to large doses being hazardess to a normal healthy person at all.