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Unread 6 Jan 2004, 17:53   #1
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radeon 9800 AIW SE

So I want to buy a new videocard to replace my old gforce 4mx which has suffered enough.
I'm looking for something in the price range of 200?- - 300? (dunno how much that is in pounds). I've looked over the current range of cards and I'm planning to get a a hercules 3d prophet 9800 all-in-wonder SE. Not only is it a good card and has a lot of video-in-out features, but apparently you have a chance of 50% to softmod it to a 9800 pro too if you enable the 4 other rendering pipes that might be broken.
Do you think it is worth the gamble or would an other card fit me better?

Flayer


EDIT: my mobo is only 4X agp? should I just wait some time, and buy a new mobo with pci-express?
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Last edited by Flayer; 6 Jan 2004 at 19:31.
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Unread 6 Jan 2004, 18:16   #2
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

What currency is that in, it's coming out as questionmarks =(
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Unread 6 Jan 2004, 18:18   #3
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

I've read that too, and I've seen the card for £160~ which is a bargain - if you can guarantee that it will successfully softmod. I was tempted to get one myself, as even if it failed it would be a decent card to own. But with a bit more cash, £200-300 should get a Radeon 9800 Pro.
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Unread 6 Jan 2004, 18:54   #4
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

it's in EUROS
also, does it matter my card is only 4x AGP? will it seriously effect performance?
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Unread 6 Jan 2004, 23:33   #5
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

the performance difference between AGP4X and 8X is unnoticable and you need not worry about it, as it stands my R9800pro is stuck on AGP1X because my mobo is being fking retarded, but gaming wise there appears to be no difference.

If you really must get an R9800SE for the media features, then make sure it has 256bit mem interface (there are 128bit versions too), you need this if you intend to mod to a full R9800pro. I believe all R9800SE's from Hercules are 256bit, but you should really check. Incidentally an R9800SE with 256bit mem interface is slightly faster than one using 128bit mem interface.

If not, i'd try stretch to an R9800NP (non-pro), I think R9600XT's are a good price and perform slightly better than R9800SE's.

What country are you in btw?

In UK for 300€ you can get an R9800pro
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Unread 7 Jan 2004, 10:34   #6
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckeh!!!!
If you really must get an R9800SE for the media features, then make sure it has 256bit mem interface (there are 128bit versions too), you need this if you intend to mod to a full R9800pro. I believe all R9800SE's from Hercules are 256bit, but you should really check. Incidentally an R9800SE with 256bit mem interface is slightly faster than one using 128bit mem interface.
The magazine in which I read the article about this card reckoned the one they softmodded worked out of the box with the mod, and was faster than the Sapphire R9800 Pro they benchmarked as their fastest card. That's some going. Of course, the 9800XT came along...

Remember though - keep it cool! If it was meant to be a R9800 Pro, it would have been boxed has one. It's been locked for a good reason I suppose.
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Unread 7 Jan 2004, 13:22   #7
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

I checked and all hercules SE cards are 256mbit. I also read that 9800SE's from hercules (only hercules) are slightly faster than 9600XT (out of the box).
I'm in Belgium, and the SE is 260? here. 9800np's are difficult to find though. I'm going to the shop right now and make up my mind
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Unread 7 Jan 2004, 19:00   #8
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyPh0n
The magazine in which I read the article about this card reckoned the one they softmodded worked out of the box with the mod, and was faster than the Sapphire R9800 Pro they benchmarked as their fastest card. That's some going. Of course, the 9800XT came along...

Remember though - keep it cool! If it was meant to be a R9800 Pro, it would have been boxed has one. It's been locked for a good reason I suppose.
it should be exactly the same really, the SE has (or should, some are lower) the same clock speeds as the pro, only difference is the 4 disabled pipes and maybe the 128bit mem interface.

unlocking the 4 pipes successfully would yield a straight R9800pro.

as for why they are disabled, ATI (and indeed every other electronics make) would test the gpu core and for what-ever reason it fails a certain test and needs 4 pipes disabled. Now, depending on how bad the fault is, you personally may not be able to reproduce the fault during normal usage, all falls on luck really.
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Unread 7 Jan 2004, 21:01   #9
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Well I played the lottery, bought the card.
It modded successfully, I'm quite happy now
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Unread 7 Jan 2004, 21:51   #10
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Buy an SE if you like buying a dog with only 2 legs. I mean, geez get a 9600 Non-SE or pro and you will be much happier for the extra $50 USD if that.
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Unread 8 Jan 2004, 00:44   #11
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flayer
Well I played the lottery, bought the card.
It modded successfully, I'm quite happy now
congrats
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Unread 8 Jan 2004, 10:54   #12
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flayer
Well I played the lottery, bought the card.
It modded successfully, I'm quite happy now
If I could stretch to getting the card ( I don't have £160 ), then I bet it would be my luck for it not to work hehe.

Have fun anyway!
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 00:21   #13
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

gfx cards are overrated *




















* overpriced
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 01:01   #14
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckeh!!!!
ATI would test the gpu core and for what-ever reason it fails a certain test and needs 4 pipes disabled.
Not to mention that they need an x amount of GPU's for production of 9800SE cards. If yields are sufficient, ATI will be crippling fully functional cores as well as semi-defective ones.
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 10:30   #15
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Not to mention that they need an x amount of GPU's for production of 9800SE cards. If yields are sufficient, ATI will be crippling fully functional cores as well as semi-defective ones.
Same thing as with Barton 2500+ and 3200+ processors. All down to voltage and temperature tests blah blah. Another thing I'd like in my PC
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 14:54   #16
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

the only abnormal behaviour I am noticing is that in 3dMark03, in some tests like mother nature and the stars wars fight thing, the display is a bit bumpy (I mean it goes in little shocks, don't know how to express it otherwise ). Even though the framerate is high.
No lines or checkerboard effects though
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 16:30   #17
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flayer
the only abnormal behaviour I am noticing is that in 3dMark03, in some tests like mother nature and the stars wars fight thing, the display is a bit bumpy (I mean it goes in little shocks, don't know how to express it otherwise ). Even though the framerate is high.
No lines or checkerboard effects though
you mean jerkyness?

Mother Nature has areas of extreme jerkyness, Battle of Proxycon can be aswell.

btw, framerate in Mother nature can't be that high, that test is a mofo even on the best GFX card.
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Unread 11 Jan 2004, 19:38   #18
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

exactly, but I reformatted this afternoon and it's fixed now. My FPS on mother nature is about 20 fps btw
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Unread 11 Jan 2004, 23:25   #19
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

must be those lingering NVidia drivers, they really don't like each other.
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Unread 12 Jan 2004, 09:20   #20
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckeh!!!!
you mean jerkyness?

Mother Nature has areas of extreme jerkyness, Battle of Proxycon can be aswell.

btw, framerate in Mother nature can't be that high, that test is a mofo even on the best GFX card.
I stuck 3DMark03 on my system (Athlon 2100+, 512MB, Geforce 4 Ti4200 64MB) and the best frame rate I ever saw on either of those two were 8 FPS, usually at about 2/3 FPS. My overall score was something like 1400 (hahaha). I hope this isn't a future trend for games though. I had the Doom 3 beta running a 30 FPS at one point, but only steadily at about 10-15 FPS.

Will be a nightmare come release date if it stays like that because I can't even afford an 80mm fan atm
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Unread 12 Jan 2004, 19:39   #21
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyPh0n
I stuck 3DMark03 on my system (Athlon 2100+, 512MB, Geforce 4 Ti4200 64MB) and the best frame rate I ever saw on either of those two were 8 FPS, usually at about 2/3 FPS. My overall score was something like 1400 (hahaha). I hope this isn't a future trend for games though. I had the Doom 3 beta running a 30 FPS at one point, but only steadily at about 10-15 FPS.

Will be a nightmare come release date if it stays like that because I can't even afford an 80mm fan atm
3DM03 is entirely GPU based, even my lowly AXP2000+ managed to score 5000+ pts due to my GFX card.

anyway, 3DM03 isn't a very good benchmark for todays games, but no doubt in the far future games will be offloaded more to the GPU, probably the only thing left for the CPU to do is computer AI and game physics.

as for DM3 i can't say, but no doubt it would run ALOT better than the beta, your 64mb of VRAM might limit you though, apparently DM3 uses heavy texturing

PS your Ti4200 can't run Mother Nature
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Unread 12 Jan 2004, 20:22   #22
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckeh!!!!
3DM03 is entirely GPU based, even my lowly AXP2000+ managed to score 5000+ pts due to my GFX card.
It has CPU and sound checks though. Especially the CPU tests make my framerate go down (to 1fps). Thats an athlon 1800+ btw. Apparantly it's old now
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Unread 12 Jan 2004, 22:30   #23
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

I have an XP2000+ and a GeForce4 Ti4200 64Mb.
Low settings on Doom 3 for me, methinks.

However, if all goes well I might have a decently paid year in industry job (interview for IBM coming up, erk) so at the rate Doom3 is slipping I might be able to buy that entire new PC I listed in the other thread before then.
I have been informed from other sources that IBM pays a baserate of around £11k for the lowest placements on this recruitment scheme. Doesn't sound like much, but when you're a student living on about £4k for an entire year, including paying for rent, food, bills, and then (if there's any left) going out and other "luxuries", £11k is a LOT of money.
Hey, a man can dream.

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Unread 13 Jan 2004, 01:13   #24
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flayer
It has CPU and sound checks though. Especially the CPU tests make my framerate go down (to 1fps). Thats an athlon 1800+ btw. Apparantly it's old now
According to the formulas that FM use to calculate overall score, gametest1 contributes a small percentage to the overall score.

From the help file.

3DMark03 score = (GT1fps * 7.3) + (GT2fps * 37) + (GT3fps * 47.1) + (GT4fps * 38.7)

so according to that, GT1 accounts for about 5% of the overall score lol
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Unread 13 Jan 2004, 12:28   #25
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

I have time to borrow the gf's Egg card in the meantime to buy myself some bits hahah :eek:

Which one is the Mother Nature one?

I get the WW2 dogfight which looks and runs quite good, the one with that fairy tart with the sword killing the trolls and the space battle (Proxycon) so I suppose none of these are mother nature?

I got this PC in October 2002, so it's not doing too bad games-wise. I can still stick the resolution on 1024+ (1280 on some games like NFSU) and I get good framerates and not much jerkiness. Thank god.
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Unread 13 Jan 2004, 12:37   #26
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Mother Nature is the 4th Game Test, surely the name would suggest no trolls, guns or planes?
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Unread 13 Jan 2004, 13:38   #27
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

That had crossed my mind
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Unread 13 Jan 2004, 17:25   #28
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckeh!!!!
According to the formulas that FM use to calculate overall score, gametest1 contributes a small percentage to the overall score.

From the help file.

3DMark03 score = (GT1fps * 7.3) + (GT2fps * 37) + (GT3fps * 47.1) + (GT4fps * 38.7)

so according to that, GT1 accounts for about 5% of the overall score lol
So the other tests just dont count?
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Unread 13 Jan 2004, 20:37   #29
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Re: radeon 9800 AIW SE

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So the other tests just dont count?
The score is only calculated from the game test frames per second, so yeah, the other tests don't count.

If you're using the free version you can just press ESC after the 4 gametests have completed to get your score.
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