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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 22:25   #1
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so this mission to mars then
X

is it just hot air to get americans pumped up for the election, or is he, like, for real?

for real for real?


theres this lump of space station orbiting up there /\/\/\/\/\/\ which can't do the 'science research' it was meant to because it hasnt got the crew required and 'ol dubya wants to send men to the moon and to mars?

Now ok im not the taxpayer paying $150 billion for the moon landing (NASA estimate from BBC actual NASA budget will be in the order of $500 billion lolerz) or the $1trillion for the mars landing (actual NASA budget - ooops we bankrupted america) but lets just think about this ok, lets just think

america lands on the moon
america lands on mars
america sets up bases

then what? why the hell would we want to go there? any research can be done 100000000000000X better by probes (anal probes) whats changed in the last 30 years since the last moon landings? NASA did go to the moon, they did discover its age (so did the russians with rovers, i love rovers) but then they came back, mainly because there wasnt a whole fcking load to do up there. And please no gimmick

'lets setup a colony on the moon to colonise space since space needs to be colonised'

because that argument is as valid as

'lets setup non research colonies on anatartica and massively populate antartica because antartica needs people and colonization is progress'

FFS man $150billion you could make so many uber hubbles to discover earth like planets, properly explore and scan all the planets in the solar system SEND PROBES TO EUROPA WHERE THERE MIGHT ACTUALLY BE LIFE

PROBES MAN PROBES. YOU SHOULD PROBE THINGS.

but anyway this is probably an election stunt along the lines of 'lets start a pretty unrealistic program get lots of votes for the second term elections, then laugh as the next president cancels it and blame him for lack of vision'
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 22:30   #2
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Re: so this mission to mars then
your post made me giggle

but i agree.. send probes to europa.. cause why the hell not.

although with the moon colonization thing.. didn't they want to colonize it in case the earth blows up?
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 22:30   #3
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Probes like Beagle2? :-/
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 22:36   #4
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Re: so this mission to mars then
its much cheaper easier and more prudent to rebuild beagle and send it back then spend another trillion on sending another square jawed yokel from mississippi to hold the same instruments to the same rocks to get the same results.
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 22:36   #5
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Arrow Re: so this mission to mars then
Ok, what I meant with my destructive kiddy-post: There could have been green martian rabbits behind Path Finder, and it wouldn't have noticed.
Or like this printer ad, can't remember, where the martians held sheets of paper in front of its cameras.

I believe there have been thoughts on what would happen if you sent one of those probes to Earth. If they would be able to discover life... I mean, what if it landed in some sort of desert or wasteland? It could do soil experiments etc, but would that prove life on earth?

And that's actually only "our way of life". All of our creatures are based on carbon.
But if fate / randomness would have had different effects, maybe silicon would've been the element to go? Who knows?

I'm not just speaking in favour of manned missions, but, probes alone can't do the job.


Maybe we should seriously consider to give up all that "rescue and emergency system" thinking?
It always has to be safe & secure, 100% success rate.

Hey, ok, astronaut IS a risky job. Build spaceflights with no chance of coming back. Or with no escape pods.
Well, bad luck for the first men on mars then, but it's still a great experience, and CHEAPER.
You need no fuel for your way back etc, and it would SURELY be the biggest adventure of your life. Forever!
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 22:46   #6
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Re: so this mission to mars then
we should send kamikaze scientific missions to mars!
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 22:46   #7
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Re: so this mission to mars then
well 'something' crushed that probe (can't remember the name of the thing fs) that was on mars last time. they say it got crushed by a rock.. but how? hmmm...
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 22:50   #8
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Re: so this mission to mars then
:sigh:
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 22:53   #9
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Re: so this mission to mars then
nusselt.. do you really believe that because we've had a couple landings and we didn't see anything.. that there really isn't life on mars or the moon?
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 22:57   #10
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
well 'something' crushed that probe (can't remember the name of the thing fs) that was on mars last time. they say it got crushed by a rock.. but how? hmmm...
The wind storms on Mars can be quite severe.

Also, the mission to Mars is a practice. The only way we will ever get off this sticken rock is we set a goal to get a person further then the moon and Europa is more likely to have life, but that is not in reality yet nor is a water proof probe (Europa supposly has oceans.)
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 23:02   #11
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Re: so this mission to mars then
well it is also a damn good coverup story for nasa :P
:conspiracy theories:
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 23:05   #12
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Re: so this mission to mars then
I thought this would be about that crap mars documentry on c5 at 8o clock where 'scientists' showed a complete lack of understanding by suggesting we 'evolve' to the conditions on mars.
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 23:09   #13
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn
well 'something' crushed that probe (can't remember the name of the thing fs) that was on mars last time. they say it got crushed by a rock.. but how? hmmm...
Marvin the Martian!

I can't really agree with any of the motives of why Bush is trying to breathe life into the space program, as it's obviously just a marketing stunt to remain in office, but I certainly can't complain with the initiative itself. Any advance into space technology is a step into the future, and all great discoveries have been made by trying wacky stuff.

Matchsticks wouldn't have been here if some German didn't try to create gold by boiling his own piss.
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 23:12   #14
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Re: so this mission to mars then
And they say Germans don't have a sense of humour
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 23:12   #15
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Theres oil on mars ffs
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Unread 9 Jan 2004, 23:58   #16
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Re: so this mission to mars then
*is reminded of a Bowie song*
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 01:39   #17
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Re: so this mission to mars then
i think its a secret plot for the states to try and get rid of bush, they`ll strap him to rocket and for comedys sake, give him the speech where he announces it
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 01:42   #18
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Re: so this mission to mars then
ofc its most likely just a political stunt, as has been the case for any major announcement before election campaign starts.
why it matter anywya i have no idea, today it seems whoever has the most money given to them by companies who expect favours in return - wins in american politics. utterly rife with corruption :/ or as far as i see it anyway
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 01:44   #19
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Re: so this mission to mars then
NASA dont need to do any work.
Just give bowie enough money and he'll find a way.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 01:52   #20
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Re: so this mission to mars then
actually ive just had a discussion about this with a flatmate of mine, he was arguing that id be a lot cheaper (going to the moon) since they'd already done it and hence would have some tech lying over, but i completely disagreed, ok there obviously would be some tacit knowledge gained from the first time, but ffs that was early 60s technology it isnt even relevant now, iirc from an ImechE lecture i went to their engines were tres powerful but very simple relatively, infact one of the F1's engineers said he couldnt even locate the master valve on the shuttle's engine and thats only 70s engine technology. They cant use any of the hardware since all the tooling has been scrapped, and the electronics is ofc vastly different. So if they do decide to go its from square 1, new design, new tooling for the plants, new infrastructure for launch/recovery.

Build probes
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:00   #21
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Quote:
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MAN PROBES
This board HAS gotten gayer.

ps.

If we want to go to Mars, we really need to set up some kind of colony on the moon first.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:01   #22
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Re: so this mission to mars then
King of Spain(or Portugal, I forget which): Well Senor Columbus, I've read your proposal and have decided that there really isn't any need to go to the New World. Instead I shall spend the money on coffee and chocolate biscuits.
Wait, I won't because chocolate grows in the New World, and so does coffee. I suppose I'll just have to sit around my palace all day drinking wine.

We should go to the Moon and Mars and anywhere else in the solar system because it's there. It's the same reason given by George Mallory when asked why he wanted to climb Mt. Everest. (Thankfully he failed, leaving the way open for a bloke who may or may not be related to me to suceed)
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:03   #23
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Re: so this mission to mars then
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We should go to the Moon and Mars and anywhere else in the solar system because it's there. It's the same reason given by George Mallory when asked why he wanted to climb Mt. Everest. (Thankfully he failed, leaving the way open for a bloke who may or may not be related to me to suceed)
That's not a great reason though, given that it's not just the lifestyle of one man that's changed, but the whole world economy.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:06   #24
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Arent the Chinese moving to the moon?
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:12   #25
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Quote:
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but i agree.. send probes to europa.. cause why the hell not.
If done properly, that mission would most likely give us the most bang for our buck (so to speak).
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:12   #26
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Re: so this mission to mars then
it takes roughly the same amount of energy to go to mars as it does to the moon since its all used on blast off really
just going to mars takes longer
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:13   #27
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
it takes roughly the same amount of energy to go to mars as it does to the moon since its all used on blast off really
just going to mars takes longer
No.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:25   #28
Belgarath The Sorcerer
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Has anyone of you read Red Mars, by Kim Stanley Robinson?
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:27   #29
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Re: so this mission to mars then
That's one of those books on my "been meaning to read it for about 10 years" list
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:29   #30
Belgarath The Sorcerer
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Re: so this mission to mars then
I hightly recommend it, Red Mars is very good, Green Mars is pretty good, by the end of Blue Mars you'll be thinking "thank ****". It's worth it though.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:33   #31
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Re: so this mission to mars then
I just started reading James Joyce's Ulysses so I imagine I'll have to take a short holiday from reading after that

I'll add Mars to the list though.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:34   #32
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Re: so this mission to mars then
I've read them. It wouldn't work though, because the cosmic wind would strip any vestigial atmosphere that was put in place.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:36   #33
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Space umbrella?
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:42   #34
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Quote:
Originally Posted by sayonara
Space umbrella?
Space BUTLER
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:43   #35
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Your repeated use of that image appears to have forced Tripod to block offshore image requests

[edit] I recant.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 02:46   #36
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Re: so this mission to mars then
lol
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 03:19   #37
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Re: so this mission to mars then
in terms of launching it does. no need to have motors running in an frictionless environment just drift the way there. ofc energy in terms of keeping the crew alive is more for getting to mars due to it being further away
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 03:28   #38
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Probes don't just drift to Mars dude.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 03:35   #39
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Do marsupials live on mars?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sayonara
Probes don't just drift to Mars dude.
That's fixable by having windows on all sides of the craft, and having the astronauts fart out of the direction opposite where they have to go to.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 06:15   #40
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Is there any medium term (say, benefits in the next 50 years) point to any of this collosal waste of government money?

Yes, I'm sure there'll be some scientific advancement from it (it's hard to give that much money to scientists and them not do anything with it) but if that's the only reason, then I'd say :
a) There are easier, more direct ways to sponsor scientific research
b) Government really shouldn't be in the business of doing this sort of thing.

If we're trying to shift global investment (irrespective of private/public) into space stuff then we should probably follow that guys advice (forget who) and promote space tourism. Then individual rich idiots can waste their fortunes on it, rather than taxes from working Americans.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 06:23   #41
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Exclamation Re: so this mission to mars then
I can't see how this has any chance in hell of getting funded.

It could be the opening gambit in a bid for more NASA funding (ask for manned Mars mission and settle for new shuttle).
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 13:29   #42
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
I can't see how this has any chance in hell of getting funded.

It could be the opening gambit in a bid for more NASA funding (ask for manned Mars mission and settle for new shuttle).
But it's BUSH who's made the proposals...
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 13:51   #43
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Re: so this mission to mars then
It's all part of his insanity of trying to create economic growth in america.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 14:37   #44
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgarath The Sorcerer
Has anyone of you read Red Mars, by Kim Stanley Robinson?
I've read all three of the series and agree that it's a good read if a trifle* long. Some of the stuff in them is a bit far fetched, like the method of getting longer life, but the overall story is quite engaging.

*there are housebricks smaller than these books.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 15:04   #45
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Is there any medium term (say, benefits in the next 50 years) point to any of this collosal waste of government money?

Yes, I'm sure there'll be some scientific advancement from it (it's hard to give that much money to scientists and them not do anything with it) but if that's the only reason, then I'd say :
a) There are easier, more direct ways to sponsor scientific research
b) Government really shouldn't be in the business of doing this sort of thing.

If we're trying to shift global investment (irrespective of private/public) into space stuff then we should probably follow that guys advice (forget who) and promote space tourism. Then individual rich idiots can waste their fortunes on it, rather than taxes from working Americans.


Maybe its my generation, but im just not at all interested in space.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 15:06   #46
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh


Maybe its my generation, but im just not at all interested in space.
I don't know what kind of arrogance it takes to assume that because you don't like something, noone else does.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 15:08   #47
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Re: so this mission to mars then
I suggested it, not assumed it.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 15:10   #48
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Re: so this mission to mars then
i agree with Deffeh
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 15:15   #49
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Re: so this mission to mars then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin
i agree with Deffeh
Great support there on a matter of fine english grammar.
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Unread 10 Jan 2004, 15:16   #50
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MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.MrL_JaKiri has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: so this mission to mars then
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nusselt
FFS man $150billion you could make so many uber hubbles to discover earth like planets
Didn't see this before, but I have to say you're incorrect. Ditto the 'research can be done much better by probes' statement.

Exploration, maybe. Research, no.
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