Planetarion Forums

Vermillion · 10 Dec 2003, 16:30

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/12/10...ntracts_031210

Highlight:

"Canada and other countries that refused to take part in the U.S.-led war on Iraq are now banned from bidding on $18.6 billion US in reconstruction contracts.

The Pentagon said late yesterday that only the 63 countries involved in the coalition will be eligible for the work. That means France, Russia, China and Germany will also be excluded."

I cannot say I am surprised, but it still smacks of sour grapes. Notably, Canada, which donated a quarter billion dollars to Iraq reconstruction, is still not allowed to bid for contracts because we refused to contribute militarily.

Considering the 'war' in Iraq seems to be far from over, and that reststants there seem to be targeting foreign workers of any kind, I am not sure this is such a bad thing...

Ste · 10 Dec 2003, 16:37

The Privatisation of War

Quote:

Private corporations have penetrated western warfare so deeply that they are now the second biggest contributor to coalition forces in Iraq after the Pentagon, a Guardian investigation has established.
While the official coalition figures list the British as the second largest contingent with around 9,900 troops, they are narrowly outnumbered by the 10,000 private military contractors now on the ground.
...
...
While reliable figures are difficult to come by and governmental accounting and monitoring of the contracts are notoriously shoddy, the US army estimates that of the $87bn (£50.2bn) earmarked this year for the broader Iraqi campaign, including central Asia and Afghanistan, one third of that, nearly $30bn, will be spent on contracts to private companies.

The myriad military and security companies thriving on this largesse are at the sharp end of a revolution in military affairs that is taking us into unknown territory - the partial privatisation of war.

Ste · 10 Dec 2003, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermillion

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/12/10...ntracts_031210

Highlight:

"Canada and other countries that refused to take part in the U.S.-led war on Iraq are now banned from bidding on $18.6 billion US in reconstruction contracts.

The Pentagon said late yesterday that only the 63 countries involved in the coalition will be eligible for the work. That means France, Russia, China and Germany will also be excluded."

I cannot say I am surprised, but it still smacks of sour grapes. Notably, Canada, which donated a quarter billion dollars to Iraq reconstruction, is still not allowed to bid for contracts because we refused to contribute militarily.

Considering the 'war' in Iraq seems to be far from over, and that reststants there seem to be targeting foreign workers of any kind, I am not sure this is such a bad thing...

Quote:

The directive, from the US deputy defence secretary, Paul Wolfowitz, and dated Friday December 5, was today posted on a Pentagon website.

It limits bidders to firms from Iraq and the US and its coalition partners in the war. Other countries that have sent troops to Iraq will also be allowed to bid.

The statement said that restricting the contract bids was "necessary for the protection of the essential security interests of the United States".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...104035,00.html
Essential security interests?

Deffeh · 10 Dec 2003, 16:45

Usa! Usa!

wu_trax · 10 Dec 2003, 16:49

that was to be expected, wasnt it?
i mean everyone would have acted that way. im just happy we didnt give more aid than the few million the EU gave to iraq.

Super · 10 Dec 2003, 16:58

Surely it's bad for the US, as if more of their people are there, more are going to die..

Intrepid00 · 10 Dec 2003, 17:38

I heard the UK is quite happy and the other 26 other major allies. I don't blame them, they gave blood. Others gave small checks or nothing. With a very large amount of the money coming from the USA since no one else wanted to help it would be kind of stupid for the USA to let other countries effectivly remove capital from the US.

Zar · 10 Dec 2003, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

I heard the UK is quite happy and the other 26 other major allies. I don't blame them, they gave blood. Others gave small checks or nothing. With a very large amount of the money coming from the USA since no one else wanted to help it would be kind of stupid for the USA to let other countries effectivly remove capital from the US.

troops dont give blood. they make blood

and do shut up

Zar

Insane. Badger · 10 Dec 2003, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

and do shut up

Zar

why oh why won't you listen to your own advice?

Radical Edward · 10 Dec 2003, 17:57

stfuIBubabyeatingcapitalist.

Zar · 10 Dec 2003, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane. Badger

why oh why won't you listen to your own advice?

omg you're back.

omg omg omg omg omg

when? why? how?

maybe i havent been on the board for a while but omg omg omg omg

you are a ****

Zar

Insane. Badger · 10 Dec 2003, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

stfuIBubabyeatingcapitalist.

i'm no longer a babyeatingcapitalist, apparently i'm a registered user

JonnyBGood · 10 Dec 2003, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane. Badger

i'm no longer a babyeatingcapitalist, apparently i'm a registered user

That's what you get for leaving for so long your account gets purged!

Radical Edward · 10 Dec 2003, 18:00

change it back. the only think I liked about you was your user title.

Insane. Badger · 10 Dec 2003, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

omg you're back.

omg omg omg omg omg

when?

just now

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

why?

i believe you said it best...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

you are a ****

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

how?

a series of mouse clicks/key strokes

Insane. Badger · 10 Dec 2003, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

change it back. the only think I liked about you was your user title.

fine, but only because i want to be popular

Intrepid00 · 10 Dec 2003, 18:15

\0/

Zar, how about debating instead of patheic flame attacks for once. Keep it up and your going to be remembered worst in light then Sunday8pm.

Zar · 10 Dec 2003, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

\0/

Zar, how about debating instead of patheic flame attacks for once. Keep it up and your going to be remembered worst in light then Sunday8pm.

i realised a long time a go that debating on these forums is pointless.

you have a load of cry babies who cry and cry if you mention something they don't agree with. people who can't read sentences properly and etc..

not worth my time to debate - just to make fun

Zar

Intrepid00 · 10 Dec 2003, 18:24

^^^^^^^^^

And that folks is an example of a cop out.

Zar · 10 Dec 2003, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

^^^^^^^^^

And that folks is an example of a cop out.

yup - my intentions exactly

Zar

Intrepid00 · 10 Dec 2003, 18:26

Ok Sunday.

JonnyBGood · 10 Dec 2003, 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

i realised a long time a go that debating on these forums is pointless.

you have a load of cry babies who cry and cry if you mention something they don't agree with. people who can't read sentences properly and etc..

not worth my time to debate - just to make fun

Zar

I'd ban you if I could summon up the enthuasiasm. Go back to some shit aol forum.

Zar · 10 Dec 2003, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I'd ban you if I could summon up the enthuasiasm. Go back to some shit aol forum.

why do you keep threatening to ban me?

are you bored!?

you sent me a pm - asking i do not mention that previous incident. I said i wouldn't.

i am not breaking any rules atm (i dont think)

so shhhhy you

Zar

Tomkat · 10 Dec 2003, 18:31

Bloody communists.

JonnyBGood · 10 Dec 2003, 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

why do you keep threatening to ban me?

are you bored!?

you sent me a pm - asking i do not mention that previous incident. I said i wouldn't.

i am not breaking any rules atm (i dont think)

so shhhhy you

Zar

You don't tell admins who have threatened to ban you fifteen seconds ago to "shh". Do you have any idea how anything works at all?

Intrepid00 · 10 Dec 2003, 18:33

Recent studies show people learn best by example.

Tomkat · 10 Dec 2003, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

i am not breaking any rules atm (i dont think)

Zar

Actually the first rule is that moderators can act at their own discretion, and are given mod access because they are deemed to be responsible. So he could ban you.

You can disagree with people on these forums, but you need to back up your opinion. Lashing out with personal insults is just petty and makes you look like a fool.

Tell the person why you think they're wrong. You won't be flamed off the boards.

queball · 10 Dec 2003, 18:34

hey I'm a mod, obey me!!!!!!

JonnyBGood · 10 Dec 2003, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Tell the person why you think they're wrong. You won't be flamed off the boards.

Damn but I miss the good old days of fifteen page flame threads :(

Although admittedly there were only two of those I recall (three really if you include guidance).

JonnyBGood · 10 Dec 2003, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by queball

hey I'm a mod, obey me!!!!!!

Back in the cage you.

Tomkat · 10 Dec 2003, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Damn but I miss the good old days of fifteen page flame threads

I thought you were told to "shhhy". Go and buy a lightbulb.

Zar · 10 Dec 2003, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Actually the first rule is that moderators can act at their own discretion, and are given mod access because they are deemed to be responsible. So he could ban you.

You can disagree with people on these forums, but you need to back up your opinion. Lashing out with personal insults is just petty and makes you look like a fool.

Tell the person why you think they're wrong. You won't be flamed off the boards.

this is not a "please mr mod - i didn't mean any harm.. sucky sucky 10 dolla?"

its a "mod i worship you, i will die for you... sucky sucky no dolla"

Zar

Tomkat · 10 Dec 2003, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zar

this is not a "please mr mod - i didn't mean any harm.. sucky sucky 10 dolla?"

its a "mod i worship you, i will die for you... sucky sucky no dolla"

Zar

Oh...
It wasn't meant to look like that.
I was trying to say there's no point riling up the mods, as you won't win.
Just post in a more friendly manner - you can debate and argue without resorting to personal insults, that's all.

Intrepid00 · 10 Dec 2003, 18:41

Anyone Watch Bruce Almighty. Wasn't it just freakin funny. Remember the scene where he was in his car using the pray beads asking for a sign for once God right before he crashed his car.

Wasn't that just funny.

JonnyBGood · 10 Dec 2003, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Oh...
It wasn't meant to look like that.
I was trying to say there's no point riling up the mods, as you won't win.
Just post in a more friendly manner - you can debate and argue without resorting to personal insults, that's all.

That depends what you mean by win. When I managed to get jboy to ban my fastest posting account on the forums for a meaningless offence I viewed it as some sort of victory. Then I realised my account was banned so I became a mod. It's the way you do the things you do kids.

Marilyn Manson · 10 Dec 2003, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ste

Essential security interests?

If you didn't send troops, then clearly there is a high probability that you are a terrorist sympathiser, and thus it would be ridiculous to allow you any room to spread your evil within Iraq.

Insane. Badger · 10 Dec 2003, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Oh...
Just post in a more friendly manner - you can debate and argue without resorting to personal insults, that's all.

Zar can't

Marilyn Manson · 10 Dec 2003, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

you can debate and argue without resorting to personal insults, that's all.

heh.

When ignorant Nationalists come into contact with equally ignorant Communists, don't expect ****-all in the way of anything productive.

Insane. Badger · 10 Dec 2003, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

heh.

When ignorant Nationalists come into contact with equally ignorant Communists, don't expect ****-all in the way of anything productive.

for the record im not particularly nationalist anymore...

wu_trax · 10 Dec 2003, 19:16

what a brilliant thread

Dace · 10 Dec 2003, 19:16

Because this really comes as a suprise?!

Obviously going in there for the oil was the Number 1 reason.

However i suspect that the rebuilding contracts were what made it financially viable.

Dante Hicks · 10 Dec 2003, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

equally ignorant Communists

I found this thread searching for Da.....

Insane. Badger · 10 Dec 2003, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by wu_trax

what a brilliant thread

any thread with me is brilliant

disclaimer: may not be true

wu_trax · 10 Dec 2003, 19:24

im still wondering why they economica superpower, that serves as an exmple for the rest of the world is afraid of a little competition?

edit: heh, i just read the WTO will check if this is legal at all.

Insane. Badger · 10 Dec 2003, 19:36

according to the article it's US taxpayer's money, why should the US taxpayer be paying foreign/ non-allied/people who openly obstructed them to do what our companies can do?

wu_trax · 10 Dec 2003, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane. Badger

according to the article it's US taxpayer's money, why should the US taxpayer be paying foreign/ non-allied/people who openly obstructed them to do what our companies can do?

yes, why care about what quality the iraqies get when and for what price?
if i remember correctly only half of this is given as aid, the 2nd half is just a loan the iraq will have to pay back.
but anyway, lets just wait and see what the wto has to say about this.

Marilyn Manson · 10 Dec 2003, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane. Badger

why should the US taxpayer be paying foreign/ non-allied/people who openly obstructed them to do what our companies can do?

If we don't allow unlimited comeptition, then we will all beocme Socialists and start having bum-sex with each other, you fag.

Insane. Badger · 10 Dec 2003, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

If we don't allow unlimited comeptition, then we will all beocme Socialists and start having bum-sex with each other, you fag.

i never said i agreed with the sentiment, just that thats possibly why they're doing it.

Vermillion · 10 Dec 2003, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid00

I heard the UK is quite happy and the other 26 other major allies. I don't blame them, they gave blood. Others gave small checks or nothing. With a very large amount of the money coming from the USA since no one else wanted to help it would be kind of stupid for the USA to let other countries effectivly remove capital from the US.

Piffle.

Firstly, that was money donated to the reconstruction of Iraq. Was it only donated by the US so they could get it back again?

Lets talk about Canada. Canada donated a quarter Billion dollars to Iraqi reconstruction. Small when compared to the US donation, but then again canada is small when compared to the US. (in population and economics anyways, size-wise, we are bigger.) :lol:

Canada was reluctant to commit forces to Iraq because of skepticism over the threat of WMD, and we were proved to be entirely correct.

Canada also has difficulty committing troops to Iraq becaise most of our projectable forces are currently serving in Afganistan, helping US interests there.

There can be no issue of national security with canada, we are partners in NORAD, our border is undefended, our polie and intel agencies work seamlessly... This is nothing but a "Oh yeaH? well take that!" from the White House.

For a country so bent on establishing democracy around the world, they seem remarkably unwilling to let their freinds disagree with them.

Intrepid00 · 10 Dec 2003, 19:57

I also talked to Canadians thanksgiving period that where down for a wedding. They said it was cause their goverment was acting like pussies. Yes, two older people, eating in a resturant that is going to cost them $400, said their goverment was acting like a pussie. I was shocked, I didn't even bring it up. My brother just mentioned he was in the Navy and they said their son was in the Air Force and Canda was being a pussie.

pussie?