VisioN bcalc updated for r16

[Altor]

Wel, as is the custom, I've updated the vision bcalc with the r16 stats (from http://beta.planetarion.com/stats.pl - I hope these were the final ones)

If you spot any errors or inconsistencies, please tell me

I think this is the first time the bcalc got updated even before signups started *proud*

Altor


*edit*: bah, wrong forum... feel free to move it to planetarion discussions, though it kinda fits here as well

[lokken]

moved to the right forum, left a redirect on AD, as i'm sure they'll find it useful too.

Otherwise

[Gate]

http://bcalc.visionhq.org for people that are new to this.

Any chance you could sort the ships in order, or is that asking too much?

[Stifler]

dont forget the ship names will be changing

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Gate

http://bcalc.visionhq.org for people that are new to this.

Any chance you could sort the ships in order, or is that asking too much?

I knew I was forgetting something :/

Hm well, I'll "sort" them after the shipnames are changed and the round really began or so, so I don't have to edit it 500 times

[Banned]

Originally Posted by Altor

Wel, as is the custom, I've updated the vision bcalc with the r16 stats (from http://beta.planetarion.com/stats.pl - I hope these were the final ones)

They're not, the final stats should be up some time today.

[Altor]

http://bcalc.visionhq.org/ stats updated with "final" stats and ship names

As usual, report errors to me please

May the bcalc be with you

Altor

[olle]

thxs Love your Vision calc, Altor. I use it every time i calc Thxs for the calc Keep on making it :thumpsup:

[Veedeejem!]

Vision calc is my prefered calc. Keep on making & supporting it, love it with all my heart

[cypher]

as a general request for altor and all other people who make bcalcs... can you guys make them in the old style?

meaning that we have logs of what happens again?
surely people remember those

[Veedeejem!]

yeh, that was cool.
I believe there was one where you could turn that function on/off but haven't seen anything like that since i started playing again in r10.5

[Altor]

Originally Posted by cypher

as a general request for altor and all other people who make bcalcs... can you guys make them in the old style?

meaning that we have logs of what happens again?
surely people remember those

I remember that calc, but that was one of the first ones afaik, and was written in php...

I guess it should be possible to modify this one to print out stuff as well, but I have no idea how hard it would be (alwyas a pain to modify someone else's code), and how much extra bandwidth it would use etc...
Maybe I'll have a look at it some day

[SpaceMonkey]

I don't know about the logs, could someone show me an example?

Cheers

[Altor]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

I don't know about the logs, could someone show me an example?

Cheers

Something like this:

Init 1:
Attacker
500 BW shoot at 100 spiders with 1000 guns: 100 spiders emp'd, 900 guns unused
500 BW shoot at 200 phoenix with 900 guns: 200 phoenix emp'd, 500 guns unused
...
Defender
...

Init 2:

etc etc

I'd need to check on the exact output though
And targetting rules have changed since then as well

[SpaceMonkey]

Thanks for that.

I use similar thing for my debug output so it shouldn't be too difficult, only problem being getting the time to sort it properly. I'll see what I can do but I doubt it'll be ready for the round start.

[DJet]

Another nice idea would be to have the source code available so others could play... i know the original version is available still but if i remember correctly that doesnt have the steal, only the subvertion function...

im not saying that the vision code should be released, but it would be nice for the basic building blocks to be made available for others to develop etc...

[Altor]

Originally Posted by DJet

Another nice idea would be to have the source code available so others could play... i know the original version is available still but if i remember correctly that doesnt have the steal, only the subvertion function...

im not saying that the vision code should be released, but it would be nice for the basic building blocks to be made available for others to develop etc...

Since the bcalc is actually open source, if you mail me for the code, I'll send it... As should other that have it.
Point would be if you make good enhancements for it, that you'd share it as well
Maybe I'll put the latest tar.gz online every round, or after some change, so ppl don't have to mail every time

[DJet]

I finally found blazde's original, realised it was coded in c++ and decided not to bother even thinking about looking into it!

did anyone ever make an updated php version? im pretty sure ive seen one somewhere but cannt find it now

[kaos]

Originally Posted by DJet

Another nice idea would be to have the source code available so others could play... i know the original version is available still but if i remember correctly that doesnt have the steal, only the subvertion function...

im not saying that the vision code should be released, but it would be nice for the basic building blocks to be made available for others to develop etc...

Well, since Blazde actually didn't seem to have chosen any license for his code and the code is statically linking to some lgpl code (which basicly implicitly makes the entire package lgpl licensed) you actually MUST release any changes you do as soon as you make you changed version available to anyone (distribute it). I don't think that blazde would mind if ppl wouldn't release their changes, but tbh, ANYONE using such stuff should have the responsibility providing the others the same freedom as he got by being able to modify blazdes code in the first place.

[Banned]

Originally Posted by kaos

Well, since Blazde actually didn't seem to have chosen any license for his code and the code is statically linking to some lgpl code (which basicly implicitly makes the entire package lgpl licensed) you actually MUST release any changes you do as soon as you make you changed version available to anyone (distribute it).

I don't think that's quite specific. From what I understand you must make the source available to anyone you make the binary available to. If he gives the source/binary to one person, that person is free to make it available further, but neither are obligated to do so. I think that's what you meant, but I thought I'd clarify.

I don't recall the rules on statically linking LGPL libs, but I'm not sure that necessarily implies LGPL (as GPL would). I'm sure a quick google would figure this out.

Originally Posted by Altor

Since the bcalc is actually open source, if you mail me for the code, I'll send it... As should other that have it.
Point would be if you make good enhancements for it, that you'd share it as well
Maybe I'll put the latest tar.gz online every round, or after some change, so ppl don't have to mail every time

Or perhaps you could make a complete patchset against the virgin source available?

If you send me a tarball of both I'd be happy to make one

[kaos]

Originally Posted by Banned

I don't think that's quite specific. From what I understand you must make the source available to anyone you make the binary available to. If he gives the source/binary to one person, that person is free to make it available further, but neither are obligated to do so. I think that's what you meant, but I thought I'd clarify.

I don't recall the rules on statically linking LGPL libs, but I'm not sure that necessarily implies LGPL (as GPL would). I'm sure a quick google would figure this out.

Originally Posted by lgpl

5. A program that contains no derivative of any portion of the Library, but is designed to work with the Library by being compiled or linked with it, is called a "work that uses the Library". Such a work, in isolation, is not a derivative work of the Library, and therefore falls outside the scope of this License.

However, linking a "work that uses the Library" with the Library creates an executable that is a derivative of the Library (because it contains portions of the Library), rather than a "work that uses the library". The executable is therefore covered by this License. Section 6 states terms for distribution of such executables.

....

and section 6 doesn't relate to this situation imho (and not a lawyer tho )

one could of course argue now whether the distribution criteria is already met when allowing ppl to access the output (there is some statement about the output of a program in section 1 which could possibly be fulfilled here, since the output of a "web program" is very much related to the program itself [yet another imho ]) or only once you start to distribute the binary program

but i didn't see this from a legal viewpoint (where i actually don't really care that much) but more like "what you should feel responsible to do yourself" (because i think its just lame taking the work of others [where they usually put much time + effort into] and just using it for ur own advantage w/o giving the proper credit [by releasing your modifications] to the original creators of the code [and the community])
The reason why you should do that is actually quite simple: others will (hopefully) follow you (and if i would see someone changing pilkara code and using it w/o releasing the source, i probably would really think whether i should be releasing anything else to that kind of ppl)

but thats just my personal opinion as a coder


edit: btw, i could setup a trac/svn/etc for the bcalc providing the most current version (supplied by you ofc ) if anyone is interested

[Banned]

Originally Posted by kaos

and section 6 doesn't relate to this situation imho (and not a lawyer tho )

That looks right.

(and if i would see someone changing pilkara code and using it w/o releasing the source, i probably would really think whether i should be releasing anything else to that kind of ppl)

Technically it's impossible to use pilkara without changing the code

I ran a version on a private machine for a few (10?) people back in r13, but I never got around to documenting the changes etc. Nor did I get everything working (as I didn't want to roll my own LAMP setup).

but thats just my personal opinion as a coder

I agree heartily, PA coders who do stuff have more to benefit from sharing and competing than from just competing

edit: btw, i could setup a trac/svn/etc for the bcalc providing the most current version (supplied by you ofc ) if anyone is interested

I don't hack on bcalc anymore, but I'd appreciate the ability to grab the newest patchset/version and just compile that. I run a bcalc for the aforementioned about 10 people (except when I do stats betas, then it's open to everyone).

[kaos]

Originally Posted by Banned

That looks right.

Technically it's impossible to use pilkara without changing the code

I ran a version on a private machine for a few (10?) people back in r13, but I never got around to documenting the changes etc. Nor did I get everything working (as I didn't want to roll my own LAMP setup).

I agree heartily, PA coders who do stuff have more to benefit from sharing and competing than from just competing


I don't hack on bcalc anymore, but I'd appreciate the ability to grab the newest patchset/version and just compile that.

yeah, maybe i shouldn't have put the config files under the gpl :P
and i have to agree, its very much a diy package (it actually is missing 3 simple sql files which i thought i had replaced with code, but obviously didn't and didn't care to repackage everything)

and yes, its quite a hassle to set up (luckily we have this thing set up already and don't have to redo that all the time ) which i hope to change in a future release (which will hopefully arrive in this year *g*), which should make the entire system much more open for integration etc (i got so many things flying around in my mind in regards to all the possibilities you have when bringing stuff like eads, pilkara, member management together)

Well, i am thinking for some time about setting up some site where ppl can contribute to the stuff we provide (i didn't see that many other things released extra for pa yet) but i wonder how the activity there would be (since i personally didn't even get a single thank you or any offering of help [which is actually understandably ]) for giving out pilkara source and i am really not in the position atm to throw my time and effort simply away

[furball]

How come there's now a login screen for the Vision Bcalc?

[Teargas]

That is what I was wondering. :/

[furball]

There has been news basically there's been server trouble at the company the site's hosted at, it'll be resolved as soon as possible. For now use www.pilkara.com/bcalc

[Banned]

Originally Posted by kaos

Well, i am thinking for some time about setting up some site where ppl can contribute to the stuff we provide (i didn't see that many other things released extra for pa yet) but i wonder how the activity there would be (since i personally didn't even get a single thank you or any offering of help [which is actually understandably ]) for giving out pilkara source and i am really not in the position atm to throw my time and effort simply away

There was a good deal of thanking on this thread, but I think most of the unwashed masses and arrogant techies didn't understand the significance.

[kaos]

Originally Posted by Banned

There was a good deal of thanking on this thread, but I think most of the unwashed masses and arrogant techies didn't understand the significance.

yeah, i know but thats mostly the usual stuff from the community, one can thank me much more by simply improving the stuff / fixing bugs / whatever to at least show me you dont just take my work and use it ...

[Banned]

Originally Posted by kaos

yeah, i know but thats mostly the usual stuff from the community, one can thank me much more by simply improving the stuff / fixing bugs / whatever to at least show me you dont just take my work and use it ...

Now I feel guilty for setting up pilkara for myself and a few friends in r13, but never getting around to releasing the fixed up stuff or guide on how to install it

[kaos]

Originally Posted by Banned

Now I feel guilty for setting up pilkara for myself and a few friends in r13, but never getting around to releasing the fixed up stuff or guide on how to install it

hehe, it doesn't matter really
i've kinda abandoned the old code already anyways to rewrite everything from scratch

[Altor]

Originally Posted by furball

How come there's now a login screen for the Vision Bcalc?

See my announcement here