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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 13:10   #51
Idler
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post

'OH NO THEY MADE A NEW WAY TO WIN PA THAT MEANS THAT WE CANT SIT IN OUR IVORY TOWERS ANYMORE AND MAY HAVE TO ACTUALLY TRY'

There is nothing with the idea that XP can win PA. It is a strategical choice that has as many negatives as it does positives.

XP is a strategical choice. Those doing it chose to play the game that way. Because YOU DIDNT choose it DOES NOT make it wrong or broken or unfair or whatever. If anything it just makes you stupid for not choosing it.
This post is so full of hyperbole.

Lets get something clear first, the stats this round, is complete garbage. It also happens to be perfect for the XP xans of the universe. I somewhat doubt that was intended, but it baffles my mind that they didnt see it coming.

A strategical choice would mean that you can effectively choose between A and B as a means to an end. Its design by intent, which is intended to make the gameplay enjoyable.

What we have today is design by flaw, in which the dev team introduced a set of stats that favors one single race, with one single shipclass, with the fastest eta in the universe, in which the intended targets has no real way of defending themselves.

There is a thing called abuse of mechanics, its what you do when you go beyond the intents of the devs, and create a category of play that the game is not designed for. It is detrimental to the overall enjoyment of the players when this type of behavior is allowed to run rampant.

Clever use of mechanics is using a small feature to gain an advantage in a particular event. Abuse of mechanics is using huge game flaws to win the game beyond its intended path. See the difference ?

XP should indeed by a way to win PA, but it should not be determined by the smallest value fleet that can land on the biggest guy possible escorted by a series of planets built sorely for the intent of escorting you. That is an enormous flaw. XP is intended as a tool that is part of the whole endscore, not the full value.

Making up arguments such as "Well he does it so its ok stop complaining because you didnt do it" is such a useless statement, it brings nothing of value other than unsubstansiated opinion presented as fact.

When the game is won outside of its intended design, you have a design flaw. That is the very definition of broken. Until the devs come out and openly say "well we intended it to be this way", the game is broken.
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 13:13   #52
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by RaUlZiToS View Post
I totaly agree wth you Joseph.


Without Xp only people who dont have a life can win. You cant do a litle crash and all your chances to top are over.

I already saw a game die because of that, the brazilian game was a PA clone and die because nobady have time anymore to stay wakeup all nights doing Dcs.
People have their lifes to care... if game dont change will die soon too.

Xp is a way to play and still have your life.... playing for TOP

The game is the same for everyone, and with Xp is more fair because will not be the same nerds without life who will win everytime.
With the way the game is designed today, you only have to check the game once every 7 hours depending on your fleets travel time thanks to the introduction of pre-launches and "Set base fleet to run"

This arugment certainly held true 14 years ago, today you can get away with doing nothing.

The only people that can actually claim that XP is a way for them to play to win, are planets outside of alliances that cant get, or send defense. Everyone else has options that take no time out of your daily schedule
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 14:04   #53
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Idler View Post
With the way the game is designed today, you only have to check the game once every 7 hours depending on your fleets travel time thanks to the introduction of pre-launches and "Set base fleet to run"

This arugment certainly held true 14 years ago, today you can get away with doing nothing.

The only people that can actually claim that XP is a way for them to play to win, are planets outside of alliances that cant get, or send defense. Everyone else has options that take no time out of your daily schedule
You can get away with doing nothing if someone else is doing all the work of DCing, BCing, calcing, scanning, organizing, politics, calling and texting for you. But even if you are just a peon in a half-decent alliance (in a non-XP round), you're required to attend TP at whatever time the BC sets it (if you're just around for 15 minutes 3 times a day, you have no influence over this), to defend when incs commonly show up (always in the middle of the night, thanks to prelaunch), to launch your attacks as late as possible (you'll give your target time to prepare if prelaunches show too soon), to be around a tick before whatever time the BC set the land tick.

The only thing that has changed in the last 14 years is this: thanks to smart phones, you no longer need to be active for 18 hours a day. Instead, you just have to be available 24/7. Either is fine if you're a 19 year old student with no sleeping rhythm or responsibilities to speak of, but neither is if you're a 26 year old construction worker with a wife and kid.

But by all means, prove it. Play for a round logging in only between 23:55-00:05, 07:55-08:05 and 15:55-16:05. See how far you get.
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 14:46   #54
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

It would be interesting to see this rounds stats played without Pl enabled
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 15:28   #55
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
You can get away with doing nothing if someone else is doing all the work of DCing, BCing, calcing, scanning, organizing, politics, calling and texting for you. But even if you are just a peon in a half-decent alliance (in a non-XP round), you're required to attend TP at whatever time the BC sets it (if you're just around for 15 minutes 3 times a day, you have no influence over this), to defend when incs commonly show up (always in the middle of the night, thanks to prelaunch), to launch your attacks as late as possible (you'll give your target time to prepare if prelaunches show too soon), to be around a tick before whatever time the BC set the land tick.

The only thing that has changed in the last 14 years is this: thanks to smart phones, you no longer need to be active for 18 hours a day. Instead, you just have to be available 24/7. Either is fine if you're a 19 year old student with no sleeping rhythm or responsibilities to speak of, but neither is if you're a 26 year old construction worker with a wife and kid.

But by all means, prove it. Play for a round logging in only between 23:55-00:05, 07:55-08:05 and 15:55-16:05. See how far you get.
Technically, this is the only thing XP planets would ever need to do. All they genuinely require are scans, some def will come from gal, but its not really the roids they need to protect, this round they are simply swapped continously. You dont need to attend TP to find targets, if you launch at 3-4am, you have just a good a chance at getting through on a target as an alliance. If the gale happens to ahve incs at the same time, more the power to you.

" DCing, BCing, calcing, scanning, organizing, politics, calling and texting for you." - So essentially, running an alliance.

Value planets cant survive on their own, but XP planets litterally only need some lucky lands from time to time, thats the difference between the time and effort you need to put in
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 15:45   #56
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
And XP does this how? your pointing at willingly crashing most of once fleet just cause your fleet doesn't really matter to get a score boost, which by the way is a permanent score boost that no one can do anything about it... yes that sounds like a brilliant way to play a game like this... bravo Joseph...
XP is an awesome way to play a war game without really doing anything...

As for not losing any ships when playing value... mmm iīm sure your right there... oh wait, not really. Plenty of people sacrifice some value for roids.. people crash.. and people get fleet catched... FCing is even an integral part of the game.. its how you de-throne someone from the top ranks... This is now not possible with the current XP mongering. Steal their roids... it does NOTHING... Kill their fleet... IT DOES NOTHING.. so Joseph how is this even remotely anything but a bad way to play...
maybe your having fun with it? the rest of the people who play and put effort into it.. doesn't.

as for your remark about being EMO... how about you grow up?

However i do agree it would be nice to see more ships blow up... i do not think XP is the way to go, however to encourage this..
Just a small thought.. how about making a round with all target for every ship.. but having different ships be more effective at certain targets.. make the ships cheap and increase income or something for large and fun wars? might be something?
"blablablabla i like value balbalbalbal"

google translate gave me this.
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 15:47   #57
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
"blablablabla i like value balbalbalbal"

google translate gave me this.
You're so edgy and amazing, please respond like this all the time. Genius
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 15:48   #58
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Idler View Post
Technically, this is the only thing XP planets would ever need to do. All they genuinely require are scans, some def will come from gal, but its not really the roids they need to protect, this round they are simply swapped continously. You dont need to attend TP to find targets, if you launch at 3-4am, you have just a good a chance at getting through on a target as an alliance. If the gale happens to ahve incs at the same time, more the power to you.

" DCing, BCing, calcing, scanning, organizing, politics, calling and texting for you." - So essentially, running an alliance.

Value planets cant survive on their own, but XP planets litterally only need some lucky lands from time to time, thats the difference between the time and effort you need to put in
surely a large part of the reason stop playing this game is because of the time consumption required to play.

Now we have a less consuming way to play and you all want to bat it down.

I never said XP didn't need nerfing because it obviously does. But it shouldn't be nerfed to the point where it's not viable to win with it. Simply cap MCs at the correct accumulator and its sorted.

The other points being made about not losing ships need to be looked into too. Having so many varying ints on stats combined with run and hide play a large part in this tho. Simple solution as always tho, run and hide is auto enabled after 48 hrs of inactivity. It comes off when you log in. Stop ppl farming dead planets and fixes the 'never lose a ship' mentality in one swoop.
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 15:56   #59
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Idler View Post
Technically, this is the only thing XP planets would ever need to do.
I should've been more clear, I guess. XP is clearly too strong this round and I don't believe for a moment it will be this way again next round. It wasn't even this bad for the last 2 rounds. My comments should only be applied to the usual type of round.
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 17:07   #60
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

the last time I played and it was a xp round was r20 which was won eventually by the ascen XP planets,

but that situation was completely different to this, there was no huge lucky lands.. it was a gradual thing, bit by bit they jumped up.. not 5mil in one go, that kinda stat is just ridiculous no?

also in r20 there was alot of value planets who could all potentially win, this round you see now it is impossible for a value planet to win, just cannot keep up

both options should be viable to win - this round, value cannot win!

i'm considering selling all my ships and spending into mass judges and xp whore the rest of the round. would be interesting haha
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 17:45   #61
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Do it!!
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 20:03   #62
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Caj View Post
both options should be viable to win - this round, value cannot win!
I'm not sure I'd even agree with that, to be honest. XP is clearly easier (never defend, never worry about fleet catches, and with SD, never worry about getting SKed), so for it to perform on par with value would still make a rational player go XP. It should be possible to perform well as an XP whore, just not necessarily as well as a dedicated value planet could.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 20:57   #63
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caj View Post
the last time I played and it was a xp round was r20 which was won eventually by the ascen XP planets,

but that situation was completely different to this, there was no huge lucky lands.. it was a gradual thing, bit by bit they jumped up.. not 5mil in one go, that kinda stat is just ridiculous no?

also in r20 there was alot of value planets who could all potentially win, this round you see now it is impossible for a value planet to win, just cannot keep up

both options should be viable to win - this round, value cannot win!

i'm considering selling all my ships and spending into mass judges and xp whore the rest of the round. would be interesting haha
Man, all the xp whores this round is playing like you sayd... bit by bit.

Only Jayzinho did that awesome land, because we planned that.
You dont saw that in round 20 because nobady think in that

Jayzinho was top 654 and did 3 lands in 3 top 20. Is that easy?

All the others top planets, the Top 1 included (brazilain too), are attcking alot an without escorts, taking 1k, 2k,3k, xp in each land.

You dont know what is going on in the game, you just saw us doing a awesome land, get sad because is not you and come here to cry =D
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 21:02   #64
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
XP is bad for the game when it's overpowered, as clearly this round it is. Last round it was not overpowered (merely strong, and only when you got a lot of escorts) and next round it won't be either. Everyone chill out.
Yeah agree. But we can say is not Xp who are overpowered, is the stats who are good only to xp whores.

Xp this round is worst then the last 3 rounds, because they reduced MC to 0,5%... so how can be Xp broken?

Last round alot people tryed to play for Xp too, like this one... but only 3 or 4 did that good, the others ones give up and go for value.

Xp is not the problem pals, stats are doing all that.
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Unread 21 Nov 2014, 21:21   #65
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
surely a large part of the reason stop playing this game is because of the time consumption required to play.
I disagree. Players will be prepared spend a lot of time playing a game if the game is enjoyable and the time spent is rewarded. (They can always take a round or two off if they need a break).

The recent changes to both the game mechanics and style of play mean that putting time into the game is now often seen as a waste of effort.

Time spent online "playing" the game encourages interaction with other players - in your galaxy and in your alliance. If you only log in for a few minutes per day you will contribute nothing to the game community - especially if you don't get involved in (arranging) defence which is the part of the game which most encourages teamwork.

Without the community aspect, this game is "just" a spreadsheet. No matter how little effort is required it simply isn't worth loading it up.
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Unread 22 Nov 2014, 04:47   #66
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Buddah View Post
xp aint broken, stats is..
with real stats not roidswap ST then it wouldnt have been so many xp planets(myself included)
agreed nothing wrong with XP imo just the combination with these stats make value play somewhat pointless (if your aim is to get a "decent" planet rank).
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Unread 22 Nov 2014, 04:51   #67
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
VALUE IS BROKEN.

a war game cant allow some1 end a round losing zero ships.

war means ships or ppl get killed, u cant point a single war were a side have zero loses.
you should try spinners new game i think it would suit the Brazilian style
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Unread 22 Nov 2014, 15:29   #68
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Lets say we have 2 planets.
Planet A: top200. low xp, high value planet
Planet B: top1. high xp, low value planet

Planet A lands on B and he gains 10k score.
Planet B lands on planet A and he gains 300k score.

How is this fair in any way? There is no way to catch up with planet B unless you crash you entire fleet and hope to land with just pods.
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Unread 22 Nov 2014, 20:28   #69
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

1) No one is saying that XP whoring is balanced this round. Even Raul has posted that the stats make it OP this round. With less offensive stats for next round, it will not nearly be as strong. However, and this is important, it should still be a viable way to play!

2) You're oversimplifying your scenario. There are more differences than just in the amount of XP the planets get. The low value planet will have a harder time landing on the high value planet than vice versa. The high value planet will hold onto the roids capped, while the low value planet will just lose them again immediately. The high value planet is an asset to his alliance during defense and war, the low value planet is just empty score.

3) On top of that, the high value planet has a choice: when value is the best way to win, he can keep his fleet and beat the XP planet. If XP is the best way to win, he can crash his fleet and proceed on equal footing with the XP planet.
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 00:07   #70
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
2) You're oversimplifying your scenario. There are more differences than just in the amount of XP the planets get. The low value planet will have a harder time landing on the high value planet than vice versa. The high value planet will hold onto the roids capped, while the low value planet will just lose them again immediately. The high value planet is an asset to his alliance during defense and war, the low value planet is just empty score.
Very poetic
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 13:01   #71
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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1) No one is saying that XP whoring is balanced this round. Even Raul has posted that the stats make it OP this round. With less offensive stats for next round, it will not nearly be as strong. However, and this is important, it should still be a viable way to play!

2) You're oversimplifying your scenario. There are more differences than just in the amount of XP the planets get. The low value planet will have a harder time landing on the high value planet than vice versa. The high value planet will hold onto the roids capped, while the low value planet will just lose them again immediately. The high value planet is an asset to his alliance during defense and war, the low value planet is just empty score.

3) On top of that, the high value planet has a choice: when value is the best way to win, he can keep his fleet and beat the XP planet. If XP is the best way to win, he can crash his fleet and proceed on equal footing with the XP planet.
Point 1, XP should be a viable way to play if its insisted that it needs to be a game mechanic.. personally i would remove that aspect but hey thats just me. But if XP stays it should be made so that it is required just as much to win with XP as it is with value. At the moment this is just not true and XP is rewarded way to much for a very small amount of effort put in. This is not a case of keep it as it is for next round and hope for more defensive stats... something clearly needs to be tweaked to make it more balanced. This is a game thats always been time consuming to some degree.. while you can play this game with logging in just 3 times a day for a quicky it doesn't make you likely to win the round.. being active in the community and participating increases your chances. Just like any other game and this is how it should be.. making the game possible to win just by clicking a few buttons once or twice a day, is not a good way to play the game. If you donīt like spending time on this game then please move on to something else less time consuming.. stop whining.

point 2, yes xp planets will have a harder time landing on people with a more defensive stat set. But still all that is required from an XP player is a bit of luck or escorting.. As for the XP player not contributing much to the ally, this is not quiet true... the ally wonīt have to worry about his incoming either.. so he doesn't require much looking after anyways, while he also provides tons of score to the ally flag.

You do recognize that if a value player crashes his fleet he will also lose most of his score??? 3rd point is mute...
XP is currently to strong... yes stats make this round very easy to play for XP.. but its not just the stats, this will be possible to do with more defensive stats as well.. all an XP player needs is luck, landing on a larger player gives to much of a boost.
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 13:53   #72
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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1) No one is saying that XP whoring is balanced this round. Even Raul has posted that the stats make it OP this round. With less offensive stats for next round, it will not nearly be as strong. However, and this is important, it should still be a viable way to play!

Can you come up with a good argument as to why this should still be a viable way to play. Other than "so people who have lives can play", because thats just not true. You can still play this game and not spend your life running an alliance like someone tried to argue
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 15:20   #73
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Because variety is a good thing in games. Without variety there's no choice, and without choice, this is not a game, but a movie.

That is also one of the reasons why this round's XP dominance is bad. It forces people into playing for XP if they want to do well, limiting variety and removing choice.
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 15:43   #74
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Because variety is a good thing in games. Without variety there's no choice, and without choice, this is not a game, but a movie.

That is also one of the reasons why this round's XP dominance is bad. It forces people into playing for XP if they want to do well, limiting variety and removing choice.
I agree, variety is important.. we do have different methods to how we play the game, either through cov-op or through the standard value way, these two ways are different and somewhat balanced at least.. So there is differences in play styles. XP on the other hand is not balanced and completely and utterly broken.. its not even really a debate.. its a fact..

Maybe make XP and value be portrayed in two different rankings might fix part of the problem? Or make XP somehow require just as much effort to play as value is.. one thing is sure.. there should at least be some way of taking an XP players score, as you can with a value player by FCing him.. currently thats not a possibility.

As has also been discussed the time aspect and requirement to play this game should not be something that should require less time, and never as little time as it does take to play an XP planet this round.. there should always be some time required to reach the top 10, it should be an achievement not something one stumbles into by sheer luck, or exploitation, as some players are clearly doing this round.
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 17:26   #75
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

You keep saying "XP is broken" without explaining what makes it broken, and more importantly, what makes it so impossible to bring it back into balance that we're supposed to need to either split it from the poor value underdog (hah!), or remove it altogether.
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 17:40   #76
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Can someone explain to me why value play is more time consuming than xp play please. I'm interested as to why the anti xp crowd as calling it lazy/easy play. I'm not sure what a value player does different to an xp except build different cons
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 17:43   #77
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Can someone explain to me why value play is more time consuming than xp play please. I'm interested as to why the anti xp crowd as calling it lazy/easy play. I'm not sure what a value player does different to an xp except build different cons
The only difference is time potentially spent online sorting/sending more frequent defense. No one who has thought this through properly is arguing that value play takes more time.

The only question is wether or not XP is intended to be this good by design, which by all accounts its not. And thus its broken.
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 17:51   #78
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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The only difference is time potentially spent online sorting/sending more frequent defense. No one who has thought this through properly is arguing that value play takes more time.

The only question is wether or not XP is intended to be this good by design, which by all accounts its not. And thus its broken.
I don't think anyone who has thought about this issue has said that xp is fine as it is. It's way too OP atm but it is far from broken. With less offensive stats this thread would probably never gave happened.

I think that if there can be a suitable nerf to the MCS (cap them) and with different stats there is no issue at all.

Players should not be forced to play value only tho to win the game. I could spend 17 hrs a day on the game but if I sleep for the other 7 depending on my time zone I'm screwed. Maybe sorting out attacks and defence which is actually broken would be a better place to start rather than picking on something that has only been an issue for 2 rounds, and only then to ppl who like to moan.

Make the game more playable more people and not exclusively just to those outside Europe or people willing to get up at 3am to play with spreadsheets.
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 18:40   #79
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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You keep saying "XP is broken" without explaining what makes it broken, and more importantly, what makes it so impossible to bring it back into balance that we're supposed to need to either split it from the poor value underdog (hah!), or remove it altogether.
youīve then obviously not read my posts mostly but ok.. The reason why its broken is firstly they gain score that cannot be taken away somehow.. as opposed to value players.. they can be FC`ed, which will result in their score being hampered with as they lose their value... see the connection between score and value? So thats point 1 that makes XP broken, your more or less untouchable..
Point 2.. you do not need to defend yourself.. actually your fine with just sitting back and watching your roids being taken away.. no real point in having to many as you would only gain to much value through resource gathering.. this also allows a player not to really care about having to defend one self... get incoming, donīt care i can sleep through it.. a hell of a lot less effort needed to play to win. A value player if he wants to win will have to commit to def.. actually get someone to watch out or get up himself and arrange defense meaning someone is going to have to use a lot more time...
point 3.. as people are pointing out its a pretty aggressive round with meh stats which has helped to enable this form of play, yes. However this will be a persisting issue even with a cap on MC and less aggressive stats, as you can still land 3 attacks in 1 hour and go from rank 600 to top 10... this is obviously something that has pointed out a weakness in the XP formula.. something needs to be done, this should not be possible to do under any circumstance!

As for my opinion on XP, its just my opinion. As most of you seem to like the idea of XP, then sure keep it there i donīt really mind it as long as it gets balanced out with the more traditional ways of game play, and not keep it as OP. And if XP persists then find a way to incorporate loss of XP so that is possible to do something similar to FCing.. it should not be permanent and untouchable something needs to pose a threat to an XP players score.
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 18:54   #80
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

XP is "working as intended".

The combination of stats and people massing MC's is the "problem" this round.
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 19:30   #81
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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youīve then obviously not read my posts mostly but ok.. The reason why its broken is firstly they gain score that cannot be taken away somehow.. as opposed to value players.. they can be FC`ed, which will result in their score being hampered with as they lose their value... see the connection between score and value? So thats point 1 that makes XP broken, your more or less untouchable..
Point 2.. you do not need to defend yourself.. actually your fine with just sitting back and watching your roids being taken away.. no real point in having to many as you would only gain to much value through resource gathering.. this also allows a player not to really care about having to defend one self... get incoming, donīt care i can sleep through it.. a hell of a lot less effort needed to play to win. A value player if he wants to win will have to commit to def.. actually get someone to watch out or get up himself and arrange defense meaning someone is going to have to use a lot more time...
point 3.. as people are pointing out its a pretty aggressive round with meh stats which has helped to enable this form of play, yes. However this will be a persisting issue even with a cap on MC and less aggressive stats, as you can still land 3 attacks in 1 hour and go from rank 600 to top 10... this is obviously something that has pointed out a weakness in the XP formula.. something needs to be done, this should not be possible to do under any circumstance!

As for my opinion on XP, its just my opinion. As most of you seem to like the idea of XP, then sure keep it there i donīt really mind it as long as it gets balanced out with the more traditional ways of game play, and not keep it as OP. And if XP persists then find a way to incorporate loss of XP so that is possible to do something similar to FCing.. it should not be permanent and untouchable something needs to pose a threat to an XP players score.

Or just defend yourself against xp hunters.

I did read your posts they were just the same whiny bullshit as the OPs thread you just waffled more to try and make your point more insightful via volume.

You can land 3 attacks in 1hr as a value player and fly up the ranks, it all depends when you do it. The first 3 days of the round are full of ppl xp hunting to jump the rabks, some of those ppl have even clung to t10 till round end. This has happened as long as I have played, 30 rounds now, and no one has moaned till then.

Capping MCs does fix the issue of OPness a lot. It then has a ceiling value that means that someone can't go way out and build xp accumulators at the cost of all else. Just like value whores can't build 250 fcs.

On the point of less effort through lack of defending. How is that not good thing in a game where the majority of the playerbase have to for go sleep to defend themselves. Put more effort into fixing that and not whining about xp and we might get somewhere.

Value is NOT traditional gameplay btw, it was just the ONLY way to play until mcs allowed xp play to be competitive over 1200 ticks with value.

Finally regarding effort required, you go and create a escort party and make sure they all recall. This is very time intensive and requires a lot of effort. Just the effort is offensive rather than defensive for a change.


In summary I still believe xp isn't broken and those against it are still whining. You are being forced to change how you play the game and you don't like it... Well ****ing tough!!!!
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 20:01   #82
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Oki.. so I spent more time reading this thread than ive been using ingame for half a week( and I still didnt get through it all) in short:
Xp is broken.
In offensive rounds its more broken than defensive rounds(would still be broken in "normal" round)
Im also sad to say that alot of people posting here have lost all respect.
The way the game works atm gives way bigger issues vs cheating compared too crashing ships on people for salvage.
Final note: when you fail on the login question, you shouldnt come to a thread like this and post your retarded ideas of how the game works
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 20:53   #83
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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I don't think anyone who has thought about this issue has said that xp is fine as it is. It's way too OP atm but it is far from broken. With less offensive stats this thread would probably never gave happened.

I think that if there can be a suitable nerf to the MCS (cap them) and with different stats there is no issue at all.

Players should not be forced to play value only tho to win the game. I could spend 17 hrs a day on the game but if I sleep for the other 7 depending on my time zone I'm screwed. Maybe sorting out attacks and defence which is actually broken would be a better place to start rather than picking on something that has only been an issue for 2 rounds, and only then to ppl who like to moan.

Make the game more playable more people and not exclusively just to those outside Europe or people willing to get up at 3am to play with spreadsheets.
Something being "way too OP" is the definition of broken (same is true if something is on the other end of the scale)... When you force a result outside of the intended design, then something is broken.

The shipstats are complete garbage and whoever designed them should just not do it again. Allowing xan FI to be able to anihiliate all classes except terrans is somewhat of a outstanding joke.

The argument that you have to spend so much time on a valueplanet is such a garbage argument, because you continue to insist that you have to "sort out attacks, defense, bcalcs, bla bla".

Honestly you can do just *amazing* by simply logging in at TP, take a target, launch, go to bed, repeat. There will always be people that do the hard labor because thats how they enjoy the game. Filling out a bcalc takes what, 30 seconds, a couple copypastes and done. Requesting scans ingame. Done.

There is literally no reason why a XP planet and a value planet *need* to spend more time on the game than another unless you think that value planets each run their own alliance 24/7.

"rather than picking on something that has only been an issue for 2 rounds, and only then to ppl who like to moan."

Only 2 rounds hu. 2354 ticks, or 98 days. That is totally not enough time for people to whine about a issue thats affecting the whole round. Damn whiners who want balance.

Mabe come up with some examples as to whats broken with attack and defence, other than the obvious stat issues.

One last thing: the argument that "this wouldnt be a problem" if the stats were more defensive. What exactly is it about a XP planet that is ever defensive ? For a planet to work it needs to have at least 1 or 2 classes/races that it will overrun, and a XP planet will do that 24/7, no matter what the stats are
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 20:55   #84
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Or just defend yourself against xp hunters.

Im sure most xans with a standard fleet of 60k DE will stay at home vs. your generic 450k banshee fleet
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 21:07   #85
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Im sure most xans with a standard fleet of 60k DE will stay at home vs. your generic 450k banshee fleet
What is it with this insistence on commenting on this round's ****ed up stats? They're ****ed up! We know! Stop basing your argument on ****ed up stats!
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 21:25   #86
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Mabe come up with some examples as to whats broken with attack and defence, other than the obvious stat issues.

Everyone likes driving for 9 hours to get a cheeseburger, then drive 9 hours home because it was a really good cheeseburger.

Makes sense.
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Unread 23 Nov 2014, 23:30   #87
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Idler View Post
Something being "way too OP" is the definition of broken (same is true if something is on the other end of the scale)... When you force a result outside of the intended design, then something is broken.

The shipstats are complete garbage and whoever designed them should just not do it again. Allowing xan FI to be able to anihiliate all classes except terrans is somewhat of a outstanding joke.

The argument that you have to spend so much time on a valueplanet is such a garbage argument, because you continue to insist that you have to "sort out attacks, defense, bcalcs, bla bla".

Honestly you can do just *amazing* by simply logging in at TP, take a target, launch, go to bed, repeat. There will always be people that do the hard labor because thats how they enjoy the game. Filling out a bcalc takes what, 30 seconds, a couple copypastes and done. Requesting scans ingame. Done.

There is literally no reason why a XP planet and a value planet *need* to spend more time on the game than another unless you think that value planets each run their own alliance 24/7.

"rather than picking on something that has only been an issue for 2 rounds, and only then to ppl who like to moan."

Only 2 rounds hu. 2354 ticks, or 98 days. That is totally not enough time for people to whine about a issue thats affecting the whole round. Damn whiners who want balance.

Mabe come up with some examples as to whats broken with attack and defence, other than the obvious stat issues.

One last thing: the argument that "this wouldnt be a problem" if the stats were more defensive. What exactly is it about a XP planet that is ever defensive ? For a planet to work it needs to have at least 1 or 2 classes/races that it will overrun, and a XP planet will do that 24/7, no matter what the stats are
I agree to be honest. If all you want to do to play the game in an alliance and value is working properly then all you need to do is log in for TP, log in to get a scan and pull if you have to, and send defence when people ask for your fleet. We are not playing in a universe where fierce battles are taking place like back in the day, so commitment doesn't need to be big if you aren't responsible for stuff in an alliance. There are players who are fantastic at balancing their fleet and picking the right targets, and it's their judgement that gets them far in the game.

The game should ways favour value on the basis of risk and reward: you can't lose xp but you can certainly lose value. If the formulae don't reflect this then the game is broken.
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Unread 24 Nov 2014, 00:30   #88
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idler View Post
Something being "way too OP" is the definition of broken (same is true if something is on the other end of the scale)... When you force a result outside of the intended design, then something is broken.
I disagree with your first statement, something being way too OP does not mean it is broken, it means it is flawed. When something is broken, you need to replace it entirely, when something is flawed you just need to twist a few screws and fine-tune it until it works as intended.

XP has been a 'working' concept for the major part of it's existence due to a high number of pretty strict limits. The introduction of MCs changed these strict limits to something almost limitless. In it's first existence you could improve your standard XP gains by 250%, which means you would get 3.5 times the XP you could get before that. It was never really possible to go from rank 600 to top 10 at a crucial stage of the round, at best you could gain 1.5m score in the way Jayzinho landed, and only once to that effect. Now you can effectively gain 2.25 times that 1.5m score. Clearly the 2.25 times is still too high in a round that is so horridly offensive as this round, and it obviously needs a further nerfing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Idler View Post
One last thing: the argument that "this wouldnt be a problem" if the stats were more defensive. What exactly is it about a XP planet that is ever defensive ? For a planet to work it needs to have at least 1 or 2 classes/races that it will overrun, and a XP planet will do that 24/7, no matter what the stats are
The fact this wouldn't be a problem in a more defensive round stems from the fact it is way easier(or rather 'possible') to stop the small fleets that are needed for XP scores of this magnitude in defensive(or 'normal') rounds. Thus killing the effectiveness of the tactic in a pretty dramatic fashion. It would not have an effect on the general style of play of an XP oriented player.
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Unread 24 Nov 2014, 10:15   #89
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idler View Post
Something being "way too OP" is the definition of broken (same is true if something is on the other end of the scale)... When you force a result outside of the intended design, then something is broken.

The shipstats are complete garbage and whoever designed them should just not do it again. Allowing xan FI to be able to anihiliate all classes except terrans is somewhat of a outstanding joke.

The argument that you have to spend so much time on a valueplanet is such a garbage argument, because you continue to insist that you have to "sort out attacks, defense, bcalcs, bla bla".

Honestly you can do just *amazing* by simply logging in at TP, take a target, launch, go to bed, repeat. There will always be people that do the hard labor because thats how they enjoy the game. Filling out a bcalc takes what, 30 seconds, a couple copypastes and done. Requesting scans ingame. Done.

There is literally no reason why a XP planet and a value planet *need* to spend more time on the game than another unless you think that value planets each run their own alliance 24/7.

"rather than picking on something that has only been an issue for 2 rounds, and only then to ppl who like to moan."

Only 2 rounds hu. 2354 ticks, or 98 days. That is totally not enough time for people to whine about a issue thats affecting the whole round. Damn whiners who want balance.

Mabe come up with some examples as to whats broken with attack and defence, other than the obvious stat issues.

One last thing: the argument that "this wouldnt be a problem" if the stats were more defensive. What exactly is it about a XP planet that is ever defensive ? For a planet to work it needs to have at least 1 or 2 classes/races that it will overrun, and a XP planet will do that 24/7, no matter what the stats are
It seems youīve not read most posts in this thread.. there have been several suggested alteration, and the whyīs for XP being a bit to OP has been clearly state..
As for testing, clearly 2 whole rounds should be more than enough time to test if it works or not, and the result is XP is to OP.. look at top 100 most of the top players are pure XP and most of the rest figured out that XP was going to be needed and stopped building value and became a mix of value/XP play style.. now the last one i don`t really mind. But what it does is completely undermine other play styles.. to win this round you need to be pure XP player.
As for the time constraints you so aptly point out is that it does take long to sort out defense and you have other people that might be willing to do it for you.. While you are correct in some of these conclusions.. however a value player will almost always benefit more from trying to cover one owns incoming than hoping someone else does it for you in alliance. You might have gotten someone else to watch out for your incoming and so forth... the point is that still the time consumed for ally/you to operate your planet is still a lot more time intensive than an XP planet which can be left alone and no need to worry about. It doesn't really matter weather or not that one person uses more time the interesting part is how much time is spent by players to help you with your planet.. TIME ASPECT DOES MATTER, you might not use to much time but someone else is likely using their time to cover you.

For reasons to why XP is op i will not recite them again please read other posts and figure them out.
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Unread 24 Nov 2014, 12:48   #90
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Atilla View Post
Point 1, XP should be a viable way to play if its insisted that it needs to be a game mechanic.. personally i would remove that aspect but hey thats just me. But if XP stays it should be made so that it is required just as much to win with XP as it is with value. At the moment this is just not true and XP is rewarded way to much for a very small amount of effort put in. This is not a case of keep it as it is for next round and hope for more defensive stats... something clearly needs to be tweaked to make it more balanced. This is a game thats always been time consuming to some degree.. while you can play this game with logging in just 3 times a day for a quicky it doesn't make you likely to win the round.. being active in the community and participating increases your chances. Just like any other game and this is how it should be.. making the game possible to win just by clicking a few buttons once or twice a day, is not a good way to play the game. If you donīt like spending time on this game then please move on to something else less time consuming.. stop whining.

point 2, yes xp planets will have a harder time landing on people with a more defensive stat set. But still all that is required from an XP player is a bit of luck or escorting.. As for the XP player not contributing much to the ally, this is not quiet true... the ally wonīt have to worry about his incoming either.. so he doesn't require much looking after anyways, while he also provides tons of score to the ally flag.

You do recognize that if a value player crashes his fleet he will also lose most of his score??? 3rd point is mute...
XP is currently to strong... yes stats make this round very easy to play for XP.. but its not just the stats, this will be possible to do with more defensive stats as well.. all an XP player needs is luck, landing on a larger player gives to much of a boost.
Why you say Xp whores login 3 times in a day?


Rank Planet X:Y:Z Launches
1 HeiMuEr 3:10:6 226
2 HAVING JUMPER INGAL 2:6:7 212
3 My Homie 2:4:10 199
4 A NON ABUSIVE NATURE 2:2:9 189
5 Quantum Break 5:10:11 178


Thats the top 5 launchs in Uni.

3 10 6 = Xpwhore - Top 6 in XP
2 4 10 = Xpwhore - Top 4 in Xp
2 2 9 = Xp Whore - Top 1 in Xp
5 10 11 = Xp whore - Top 5 in Xp

So they are inactives? They are top launchs in all game and you still saying to be a Xpwhore dont need much effort?

Lets the Planets ranking?


Rank Change Coords Ruler Planet Race Size Score
1 2:2:9 ENDLESS NAP OFFER MAILS A NON ABUSIVE NATURE Xan 926 7,866,923
2 5:6:9 End Terminus Xan 231 7,159,243
3 5:8:3 _Tche_ Testing MH Xan 401 7,120,522
4 5:10:11 Black Sigma Quantum Break Xan 603 6,719,500
5 3:2:4 House Cards Cat 702 6,372,352
6 2:4:10 NitinAs My Homie Xan 324 6,235,526
7 6 2:2:6 Fenrir Aasgaard Cat 2,099 6,130,927
8 7:1:1 Speed Iight Etd 1,376 6,118,826
9 2 3:10:6 DiaoSi HeiMuEr Xan 370 6,051,084
10 1 2:2:1 ank0 tirisfall Xan 1,400 5,926,717


2 2 9 - Top 4 launches
5 6 9 - Top 8 Launches
5 8 3 - Top 11 Launches
5 10 11 - Top 5 Launchs
3 2 4 - Top 16 Launches
2 4 10 - Top 3 Launches
2 2 6 - Top 94 Launches
7 1 1 - Not in Top 100
3 10 6 - Top 1 Launches
2 2 1 - Top 6 Launches

Have only 2 planets in top 10 who are not in top launches, and this 2 ARE NOT XPWHORES


So why you say Xpwhores dont make effort? Say me a decent argument... because the numbers dont show it.
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Unread 24 Nov 2014, 13:22   #91
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaUlZiToS View Post

So why you say Xpwhores dont make effort? Say me a decent argument... because the numbers dont show it.
Lets say im Xan

I have 500k banshee, that will obliterate most xan DE fleets

I have 10 minutes to spare before tick. Scroll through universe, find 3 xans in galaxies that isnt 2:2, move ships between fleets if you need to to avoid newsscan detectives, 2 fakes 1 real, launch. jpg whenever.

Im not saying XP planet doesnt make an effort, but for xans this round you really dont need that much of a mammoth effort to be top launcher, you can just wildly launch at any xan and chances are he's going to run as far away from you as entirely possible if you get through gal defense.

Get defended? Recall, repeat
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Unread 24 Nov 2014, 13:32   #92
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaUlZiToS View Post
Why you say Xp whores login 3 times in a day?


Rank Planet X:Y:Z Launches
1 HeiMuEr 3:10:6 226
2 HAVING JUMPER INGAL 2:6:7 212
3 My Homie 2:4:10 199
4 A NON ABUSIVE NATURE 2:2:9 189
5 Quantum Break 5:10:11 178


Thats the top 5 launchs in Uni.

3 10 6 = Xpwhore - Top 6 in XP
2 4 10 = Xpwhore - Top 4 in Xp
2 2 9 = Xp Whore - Top 1 in Xp
5 10 11 = Xp whore - Top 5 in Xp

So they are inactives? They are top launchs in all game and you still saying to be a Xpwhore dont need much effort?

Lets the Planets ranking?


Rank Change Coords Ruler Planet Race Size Score
1 2:2:9 ENDLESS NAP OFFER MAILS A NON ABUSIVE NATURE Xan 926 7,866,923
2 5:6:9 End Terminus Xan 231 7,159,243
3 5:8:3 _Tche_ Testing MH Xan 401 7,120,522
4 5:10:11 Black Sigma Quantum Break Xan 603 6,719,500
5 3:2:4 House Cards Cat 702 6,372,352
6 2:4:10 NitinAs My Homie Xan 324 6,235,526
7 6 2:2:6 Fenrir Aasgaard Cat 2,099 6,130,927
8 7:1:1 Speed Iight Etd 1,376 6,118,826
9 2 3:10:6 DiaoSi HeiMuEr Xan 370 6,051,084
10 1 2:2:1 ank0 tirisfall Xan 1,400 5,926,717


2 2 9 - Top 4 launches
5 6 9 - Top 8 Launches
5 8 3 - Top 11 Launches
5 10 11 - Top 5 Launchs
3 2 4 - Top 16 Launches
2 4 10 - Top 3 Launches
2 2 6 - Top 94 Launches
7 1 1 - Not in Top 100
3 10 6 - Top 1 Launches
2 2 1 - Top 6 Launches

Have only 2 planets in top 10 who are not in top launches, and this 2 ARE NOT XPWHORES


So why you say Xpwhores dont make effort? Say me a decent argument... because the numbers dont show it.
Well firstly remember you can launch 3 fleets at a time so if a player launches 3 fleets at a time, one could possibly have achieved many more launches than what the top players have atm.. however the top 1 player has launched 226 fleets, averaging about 6 launches per day.. this means he could potentially have done the launches with 2 loginīs but yes ok we will also assume he actually checks his targets meaning a whopping 4 logins. Also do remember this type of play does not require caring for incoming fleets.. which in most cases are where time is spent, either by yourself or by someone in your ally.

However i do recognize that probably many XP players are active in the community so i donīt doubt their ability to be active.. what i am arguing is that there are simply so many sides of the game you can ignore by playing XP that the actual time spent on watching out for your planet is minimal compared to other play styles.

Plenty of XP players says that playing XP is a joke.. even one among top 3 planets is saying its a joke.. i donīt understand whats so difficult to understand here.. and why you would want to promote this type of play.

Again, personally i donīt really care for XP type of play as i think it promotes a bad way of playing this game, the "keeping your fleet artificially small just so you can land on bigger value players that has a gap" kinda thing doesn't really appeal to me.. but if its insisted that it stays in the game it needs to be balanced with the other ways of playing the game.. and a glaring flaw is that XP players canīt lose their score, once they have it they canīt lose it..

So to sum it up here for you, i think a value players will always have to spend more time on his planet than an xp player on AVERAGE, average being the operational word.. however my biggest issue with XP is that there is no way to counter it.. no way of stopping an XP planet.. it is atm a broken mechanic which some players are using to the extent that its abuse, in my eyes <-- important thats my view.
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Unread 24 Nov 2014, 18:54   #93
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

I am shocked there are not more xpwhores in the top100.
Clearly alot of them fail miserably at it.
Take a look at 5:9:11 (joined my gal a week+ ago)
Not played PA for 10 years, had no idea what to do or what to attack. I just showed him in the right direction, and told him to get mcs / dists. He got 25k fi now, and will be top 100 this time tomorrow.
Its a joke. It requires no skills - you just have to attack other xpwhores. The smart xpwhores have an even lower value than the other xpwhores, so that they can in turn gain even more retarded xp.

XP was added to stop nubbashing, or to give an extra incentive to attack bigger targets. It was never added as a new "way to play".
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Unread 24 Nov 2014, 19:53   #94
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Low ranked XP whores are helped tremendously by the fact that the top planets are exclusively covering each others' incs, and letting everyone else land. Stops the opposition from growing while keeping your value low at the same time. It's a win/win.
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Unread 24 Nov 2014, 22:58   #95
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Low ranked XP whores are helped tremendously by the fact that the top planets are exclusively covering each others' incs, and letting everyone else land. Stops the opposition from growing while keeping your value low at the same time. It's a win/win.
Clearly a win/win. Thats how PA was meant to play!
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Unread 24 Nov 2014, 23:25   #96
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Wich baffles me is that the XP whores dont mind people stealing their roids, they dont bother defending against it.
I dunno how far we are from borderline farming, but i guess it just depends on who looks at it.
XP whoring can be used to create another form of pyramide farming, and i dont see how the already "useless" MH team is gonna even begin to investigate "dobious" attacks.
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Unread 24 Nov 2014, 23:26   #97
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher
Wich baffles me is that the XP whores dont mind people stealing their roids, they dont bother defending against it.
I dunno how far we are from borderline farming, but i guess it just depends on who looks at it.
XP whoring can be used to create another form of pyramide farming, and i dont see how the already "useless" MH team is gonna even begin to investigate "dobious" attacks.
They don't need the roids, so why put in the effort?
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Unread 25 Nov 2014, 00:29   #98
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

What i have noticed in this last page is that what the issue actually is has become massively diluted by the likes of Idler and Atilla.

The idea that you just log in and chuck 3 fakes to attack someone big is probably a little true in this round but is not how xpwhoring works. Its how PLAYING XAN IN GENERAL WORKS.

Apart from the last 2 rounds Xan has been pretty woeful for quite a while and not very useful for gathering XP. Its just the fact that cloak + big xp has coincided for 2 rounds and everyone has thrown a fit.

Notoriously tho Xan is a very weak race and it means you struggle to land fakes on larger planets because they would kill/hug swathes of your paper thin fleet if it was actually there or if you even had one.

In the past 10-12 rounds i have witnessed that infact ETD and Cat and to a lesser extent Terran have actually been the better races to XPwhore with. Disguising some beetles and pods with 1 hornet has proved far more profitable over the rounds and far more sustainable for the planet in question than these flash in the pan Xan planets.

Yet no one has run here crying about XP being broken then. No one ran here 3 rounds ago when MCs were introduced. No XPwhores ran here when MCs were actually nerfed for this round. So if the formulae for XP hasnt changed since it was introduced (as far as im aware) and it wasnt a problem for all of those rounds how is it magically broken? Surely other things that are impacting on XP are broken instead and they are what need fixing??????

Many simple ideas have been put forward to to solve all the XP issues but maybe this one will finally turn the tide. Take Score out of the XP equation. Base it on value only... if you wanna be a big brave boy and get some monster XP they you are gonna have to be a hero to do it (plus this stops the XPwhores landing on each other... no fleet=no value=no XP)
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Unread 25 Nov 2014, 01:26   #99
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

Im not sure if you are paying attention.
A lot of us have thought XP has been flawed for quite sometime.
These stats just underlines it to the extreme. XP has so far brought this round way off balance, and normal things dont seem to apply this round.
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Unread 25 Nov 2014, 07:26   #100
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Re: XP is broken. fix it

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Im not sure if you are paying attention.
A lot of us have thought XP has been flawed for quite sometime.
These stats just underlines it to the extreme. XP has so far brought this round way off balance, and normal things dont seem to apply this round.
Please stop making things up. At no point have you ever mentioned this in all the 2000 posts you have made. Seeing as you like to moan about everything unfair in the game there is no way if you and your hundreds of pa friends that thought this that you wouldn't have brought it up before.....
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