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Unread 3 Aug 2014, 14:16   #101
Mzyxptlk
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

Not saying there shouldn't be tweaks here and there, but they look fairly reasonable to me.
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Unread 3 Aug 2014, 15:16   #102
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Not saying there shouldn't be tweaks here and there, but they look fairly reasonable to me.
Well i personaly dont like these stats, but i can see them being playable.
I do expect a lot of whine when we come to mid round over useless stats.
The emp eff is fcked up, they need to be far more effective.
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Unread 3 Aug 2014, 15:25   #103
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

The last set that papadoc gave out was (IMO) pretty good, fairly balanced and gave every race a fair change to land against every race, after Appocos tweaks... they really aren't that anymore. Xan is now open against everything really (when co had minor difficulties in landing, and BS still may have to even teamup to land). FI in general is now obsolete (either than massing it as a defship to send on suicide missions). CO in general became a shitload stronger against everything (especially in teamups, that we all know will happen). BS is pretty sucky as well, which it was not in papadocs final set. CO/CR were the winners after Appocomasters "balancing" and CR was strong even before. FR and DE are still pretty viable imo, FI and BS became purely defships. Cath CO can solo everyone again and add to that zik/etd partner...

Will surely make a hugfest of a round, again :/
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Unread 3 Aug 2014, 15:45   #104
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

Can these stats now be viewed in-game - or are they still being worked on?
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Unread 3 Aug 2014, 15:57   #105
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
The EMP eff/res surely cant be even Close to fninished?
What's wrong with them?

and these should be final:

http://game.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats
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Unread 3 Aug 2014, 16:13   #106
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

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Originally Posted by Planetarion Manual
Cathaar (Cat)

The Cathaar race are a humanoid feline race highly progressed in the field of non harmful attack. Cathaar can only kill half of the ship types, but they can EMP (stun) any ship in the game.
... except that Cat's only anti-Cr is two (yes two) single-target, non-EMP ships.

I chose that error in the Manual to emphasise the point I was making about the Scarab and Avenger. There are doubtless many other errors including Zik being able to "steal any enemy ship".
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Unread 3 Aug 2014, 16:45   #107
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

But giving them "Normal" ships is a way of balancing the races.
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Unread 3 Aug 2014, 17:14   #108
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
...including Zik being able to "steal any enemy ship".
except for the fact that they aren't
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Unread 3 Aug 2014, 18:40   #109
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

Thank you, captain obvious.
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Unread 3 Aug 2014, 19:39   #110
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

By the way, Baliff's ERes is atrocious; it is 2.5x weaker to EMP than Etd's main Bs ships. calc

On the flipside, Rambler is insanely strong against EMP, Vipers would have it hard enough against Etd Fr, shooting second. calc

Intentional or oversight?
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 06:25   #111
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

Since they both show 'normal' efficiency in the statsanalysis, it's likely an oversight. Guess the Pods need to have around equal the costs of the other ships in their class, so these things dont happen.
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 06:50   #112
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

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By the way, Baliff's ERes is atrocious; it is 2.5x weaker to EMP than Etd's main Bs ships. calc
[/url]
i hope it was an oversight
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 06:52   #113
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

The ER RES
Guardian 109%
Dreadnaught 118%
Baliff 185%
someone should change that
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 06:54   #114
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

infact the whole emp eff needs an overhaul its way too powerful, unless we're wanting the ever popular cath domination of t100 as usual?
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 06:56   #115
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

also aesthetically Avenger has 18 guns but is a norm ship
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 06:58   #116
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

also not sure what the impacts of having the resource stealing ship stealing same init as pods. would that reduce caps depending on amount of roids stolen visa verse?
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 10:55   #117
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

Dunno whats the problem with the galleon but atm its insanely broken and stealing 25 times as much as it should so its bound to be fixed. If not the top 100 value players should be 100% zik
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 11:20   #118
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

it can only steal what's available
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 11:35   #119
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

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Dunno whats the problem with the galleon but atm its insanely broken and stealing 25 times as much as it should so its bound to be fixed. If not the top 100 value players should be 100% zik
Doesn't it steal a % of the resources the target has at landing?
Must be very good in beta and havoc, but in real round when your target is online before you land, it seems kinda pointless?
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 11:40   #120
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

5k galleon steal over 6mil resources
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 11:42   #121
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

yeah its very hard to find idle players..
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 13:52   #122
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

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Doesn't it steal a % of the resources the target has at landing?
Must be very good in beta and havoc, but in real round when your target is online before you land, it seems kinda pointless?
Will still steal a ticks worth of resources.
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 14:24   #123
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

There is no maxcap for resources?
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 16:08   #124
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

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There is no maxcap for resources?
25% of planets stock + income from tick you land.
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 16:29   #125
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

Time for "the cousins" to start "playing" again?
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 17:55   #126
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

To void further confusion with ship names.
I suggest next round.

Terran Fighter Ship One
Terran Fighter Ship Two
Terran Corvette Ship One
ETC ETC

But, more importantly
Cathaar Figther EMP Ship One
Cathaar Fighter KILL Ship One

Zikonian Fighter Steal Ship One
Zikonian Fighte Kill Ship One

This will avoid Mantis being a confused with EMP. Or even a random ship for cath called "Avenger".( I googled Avenger Bug... nothing) Thiefs confused as a Kill ship. Or any other confusion there has been over the rounds. Each race has a "Theme". The ship names are supposed to follow that theme.

Cath
Emp = Bugs with Venom
Kill = Bugs that kill without venom

Zik (should be straight forward)
Clipper kills
Thief steals
Cutter kills
Rogue kills (war ship)
Pirate steals
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 18:30   #127
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

Cat has never been purely about bugs, not even if we (incorrectly) take that term to include the arachnids. See the Viper, Avenger, Guardian, Defender and Window Maker, all of which have been used by Cat before, and many multiple times.

Etd, at various points in their history, including round 57, took not just ship types from other races, but the associated race's ship names as well.

And finally, there has never been a name split between kill and steal ships for Zik. That said, the Thief as a non-stealing ship does seem a little odd, for how unambiguously it's named.
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Unread 4 Aug 2014, 23:43   #128
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

indeed mz, the originality of the ship name is just Down to wich round you were a part of.
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Unread 5 Aug 2014, 00:27   #129
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

Baliff was an oversight, it should be brought in line.

My bad.

Also werent the ship names thrown out the window when we stopped using the full xan names how many so rounds ago?
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Unread 5 Aug 2014, 01:07   #130
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Cat has never been purely about bugs, not even if we (incorrectly) take that term to include the arachnids. See the Viper, Avenger, Guardian, Defender and Window Maker, all of which have been used by Cat before, and many multiple times.

Etd, at various points in their history, including round 57, took not just ship types from other races, but the associated race's ship names as well.

And finally, there has never been a name split between kill and steal ships for Zik. That said, the Thief as a non-stealing ship does seem a little odd, for how unambiguously it's named.
yes sorry i screwed that up. Not bugs with venom but, "things that stop moment before killing/eating prey"

either way. the other names you listed. Avenger, Guardian, Defender and Window Maker <-- mistakes with naming.
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Unread 6 Aug 2014, 11:20   #131
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

Avenger still has 18 guns
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Unread 6 Aug 2014, 11:48   #132
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

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avenger still has 18 guns
they are final - deal with it
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Unread 6 Aug 2014, 13:59   #133
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

Why does ETD not have an SK!

FFS :<
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Unread 6 Aug 2014, 14:35   #134
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

because they are the only race with 3 pods
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Unread 6 Aug 2014, 14:54   #135
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

You can always steal termites or liquidators if you really have to sk as an etd
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Unread 10 Aug 2014, 16:40   #136
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Re: R58 Papadoc Stats discussion

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On the flipside, Rambler is insanely strong against EMP, Vipers would have it hard enough against Etd Fr, shooting second. calc
I hadn't even noticed that at the time, but the Rambler's simply much more expensive than its other classmates. This shouldn't be much of an issue later on for killships, since you'd need to crash a lot of value, but for EMP this will stay an issue throughout the round.

I've already ran into this though, which showcases why the difference is too big. It takes twice as many (unfrozen) Bombers to kill off the pods as it does for Rangers.
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