User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Strategic Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 27 Jul 2013, 21:03   #51
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Change Log: So I fixed some of the remaining targeting from the old stats, removed a few T2's so they accurately match the stats i wanted to upload.

Changes: Buccaneer T1->T2 ; T2->T1 to better allow for fighting vs De
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28 Jul 2013, 02:44   #52
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,569
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: Round 53 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by on99 View Post
Totally agree on that. Cat are often the first targets to be picked. Though xans sometimes are unlucky aswell. Anyways, if you are in one of the top alliances, you often manage to get enought defense to keep the roids Cat steal. In smaller alliances, you are just screwed being Cat, while they are very much needed in attacking teamups....
Ofc Cat is first picked, emp is has no deterant to attackers. What it does provide tho is a good base to DC from. Bar another EMP attacker Cat outints everything that attacks it. So even if you have this kick ass fleet that smashes Co when you go against Cat some of your fleet is rendered useless, you never wage war against Cat at 100% power. Cat has the power to make a crappy def fleet enough to save its ass because it 'hugged' a decent enough percentage of the attackers.

Yes on99 you are right that if you are in a smaller alliance you might be screwed as a Cat but really it is your choice where you play and your choice how much defence you recieve through your efforts to DC yourself or get your galaxy active or even exile yourself into a decent galaxy rather than settling for semi active. We had a player in my galaxy who was in a 2 man alliance as a Cat. She finished around 120th in rank, which i think is pretty impressive, and that was down to her willingness to come online when she had incs to try and get defence and always offer ships to defend other in galaxy. This also meant that on the rare occassions she wasnt able to get her own defence that others were willing to DC for her because she had put the effort in beforehand.

I have played Cat 5 times in 15 rounds (4 Terran/6 Xan) and every time i have found it the easiest race to DC myself with and keep roids with. 9 times out of 10 it starts the round with a 3-4 ship build that targets every possible incomming before or equal to what that incomming attacks it. Other races have bigger holes, or more paper thin ships or worse ints (Etd has all 3). This is why Cat is used by defleeches and people going for the win. Because it is actually overpowered compared to other races, by design.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28 Jul 2013, 02:51   #53
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,569
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: Round 53 stats

Still not seeing the need for the t3 on the investor Tia.

De targetting De doesnt feel right and im not sure why Etd is strong against itself when all the other races look weak against atleast one of their attack fleets.

There is already too many ships that are t1 against DE or have equal or better int to make it a viable attack setup. At most the Investor will be a cool nerfing def ship against Cr/Bs.

Care to explain the reason for it please?
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28 Jul 2013, 08:26   #54
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Because that massive 48%eff is huge!!!!! if a Etd decides to get investors over Broker(kill) or Thief(steal) then by all means but because etd cant t1 De they are really weak vs it period Ter De will walk ALL over them with out much issue.

Renamed Broker-> Tycoon.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28 Jul 2013, 10:22   #55
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,569
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: Round 53 stats

It another ship that targets it and ints before it. It also makes Etds good against Terr Bs fakes. Etd now has 2 anti DE ships that target Terran De before it even shoots. This makes DE even less playable than it already was. I cant see why anyone would go DE with these stats still.

Im still not seeing past Xan still either. Both ETD/TER have non existant anti FI defence, the Wyvern is incrediby weak as a ship and ETD BS is only EMP against FR. Cat is obviously open against Xan and the Corsair is ridiculously weak for Zik. Xan FR can also attack into itself.

Are you planning anything to combat this or will we have a round that is heavily Xan again? Hopefully with the return of FOCKERS.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28 Jul 2013, 11:52   #56
Clouds
Registered User
 
Clouds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
Clouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to behold
Re: Round 53 stats

a) Why is Tia doing stats? It means you'll all have to fort up.
b) Why is it limited MT?
c) I shan't play these stats. :-)
Clouds is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28 Jul 2013, 12:39   #57
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,569
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: Round 53 stats

a) We are all asking that question still. It kind of makes you wish for PA not to return.

b) Limited MT is probably the best mix of stats currently. Full ST and full MT put off a lot of people from playing due to the inability to defend yourself (ST) and the stagnation and the ability to self cover (MT). This is the middle ground.

c) Yes you will. You just dont know what to play and will wait to be told what is the best setup.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 28 Jul 2013, 21:15   #58
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

well the only thing ive seen is people flaming and not much, this is too good or this needs to,be fixed. im open to almost all forms of reasoning. but present your argument in the right way, with proof and facts(bcalcs).
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2013, 01:10   #59
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,569
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: Round 53 stats

Maybe it's because ppl are still playing havoc or can't be arsed to discuss a set of stats that might never be used.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2013, 01:11   #60
Clouds
Registered User
 
Clouds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
Clouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to behold
Re: Round 53 stats

I'm sure your stats will be fine, Tia, I'm just not a fan of your previous set, as you allowed certain classes of ships to have free kills of other classes.

Last edited by Clouds; 29 Jul 2013 at 01:24.
Clouds is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2013, 02:18   #61
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Well both you, Kai and Clouds seem to care enough to read a respond on forums so you could instead of making useless comments and just otherwise flaming, you could continue to play your little havoc and I will move on with-out you.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2013, 05:13   #62
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Changes:


Xan:
Banshee T2 <-> T1 , A/c and D/c increased.
Ghost Dropped Co targeting
Phantom A/c D/c increased.

Zik:
Clipper Drop Co targeting
Bucc: A/C increased D/c Decreased and De T1


Etd:
Thief Dropped Co targeting


The goal of these changes was to not have fr Free fire on cat co, with out having Cat Co getting 4 ship targets.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2013, 08:16   #63
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Few more changes:

Zik: Cutter Emp Res increased

Etd: Investor guns 9->8
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2013, 20:57   #64
WillyNilly
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 52
WillyNilly is a jewel in the roughWillyNilly is a jewel in the roughWillyNilly is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Fi - 1 (Xan)
Co - 1 (Cat)
Fr - 2 (Xan/Zik)
De - 2 (Ter/Etd)
Cr - 2 (Cat/Zik)
Bs - 2 (Ter/Etd)

Why would anyone want to go Cat Co? (Even if zik gets co pods it doesnt really help much)
WillyNilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2013, 22:19   #65
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

im not going to digify that with answer because if I make more fi co fleets the it unvalances the rest of the fleets
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 29 Jul 2013, 23:31   #66
Magnus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 36
Magnus is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round 53 stats

i currently don't see an answer to cath/zik cr. dragon e/r is awful, tycoon not much better. only saving grace is investor has better init. maybe make it t1 cr and de can be ok defense at that point.
Magnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 30 Jul 2013, 04:44   #67
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 954
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: Round 53 stats

ERes could use some more tweaking across the board, not just Bs. Tycoon wrecks Cr once it gets to fire, though.

I'd also like to see Cutlass's armor increased and damage decreased. It's fine in a Zik vs Xan match up, but the steal efficiency gets out of control once EMP is mixed in.
Patrikc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 30 Jul 2013, 04:52   #68
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Pat, can you list me a few ships that your intersted in seeing changed and by how much and ill look into it.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 30 Jul 2013, 07:08   #69
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Changes:

Zik:
Bucc Steal->norm init 5 retweaked a/c d/c to match change.

Roach:
Emp lowered

Xan:
Spectre emp lowered.

Etd:
Investor t3 removed.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 30 Jul 2013, 18:14   #70
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

New set of changes to make Etd and Ter not so buddy buddy:

Cat Cr -> Cat Bs

Roach->scarab Fr T1 bs

Etd BS -> Etd Cr

adjusted pods and sk's to match accordingly. will have to rework emp since i moved classes around.

Zik:

Cutlass t1-> Co Dropped emp eff Increased Costs

some pretty big changes Gona leave these how they are for a while and see what people think and find out.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless

Last edited by Tiamat101; 30 Jul 2013 at 18:40.
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 30 Jul 2013, 19:06   #71
Magnus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 36
Magnus is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round 53 stats

no no no no no. please change cutlass back.
Magnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 30 Jul 2013, 21:40   #72
lince
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portugal
Posts: 88
lince will become famous soon enoughlince will become famous soon enough
Re: Round 53 stats

No sk's on frigate class for etd, please.

Just another thing: zik with full kill attack fleet is a nonsense. Besides, only 2 fi's hit fr, being Pulsar the only threat to zik fr, which has decent D/c but really low A/c. Changing Clipper to steal init 19 would make no difference, besides zik able to steal fi, which would let Cutlass change to t1-> co only, as before.
If this change on Clipper is done, improve A/c D/c on Clipper.

Last thing: Cutlass empres 0? even Banshee has empres 30 and it's co class and xan. For instance, Thief is stealer also and has empres 52. Change it to smoething meaningful.

Last edited by lince; 30 Jul 2013 at 22:04.
lince is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 04:02   #73
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 954
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: Round 53 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by lince View Post
Last thing: Cutlass empres 0? even Banshee has empres 30 and it's co class and xan. For instance, Thief is stealer also and has empres 52. Change it to smoething meaningful.
ERes values alone don't mean a thing. Right now, the only EMP ship targeting Co is the Spider, and it has a 110% efficiency vs the Cutlass. If anything, every other Co needs their ERes dropped.

Not entirely sure about ships stealing their own class (at least t1), but I don't see any huge issues with it at the moment.
Patrikc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 04:53   #74
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Space Invaders Champion, Alien Invasion Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion, Squid Hunter Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,452
Mzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Round 53 stats

I always work with an E/C column, which shows how many resources each EMP gun freezes. For example, a Pulsar with 0 ERes that cost 400 resources has an E/C of 400 * (1 - 0/100) = 400 * 1 = 400 resources/gun, while a Harpy with 60 ERes that costs 1000 resources also has an E/C of 1000 * (1 - 60/100) = 1000 * 0.4 = 400 resources/gun.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 05:14   #75
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

I wanted the cutlass to have balls low E/R so that its not just an auto win vs cat co in the round. If ziks were to poor alot of value into Co then so be it they will be able to stop cat co's pretty much solo, but that will only be a few planets out of the 600 that play every round.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 10:07   #76
lince
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portugal
Posts: 88
lince will become famous soon enoughlince will become famous soon enough
Re: Round 53 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
ERes values alone don't mean a thing.
True. But when you have same class teamups, it does. As it is, at the moment, cutlass simply flaks the other ships.
An example: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=0pl0mxllxu6f08p
Meaning, the only zik ship that can target co gets fully emped, while the other races Co ships shoot nowhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Right now, the only EMP ship targeting Co is the Spider, and it has a 110% efficiency vs the Cutlass. If anything, every other Co needs their ERes dropped.
Lowering it won't solve the question. You can't lower anything below 0. You would need to change resource costs on all the co. Then things will be completely unbalanced and you would need to redo damage and resource costs on the other ships targetting co, to balance it.
For instance, Beetle has high empeff but has init disadvantage vs spider. To lower Beetle empres while keeping efficiency, you would need to change guns or resource cost. Else, viper gets free kills on the cath co attack fleets.
It would be much easier to just improve empres on the Cutlass than to change resource costs on all of the co.

Last edited by lince; 31 Jul 2013 at 10:34.
lince is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 10:13   #77
lince
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portugal
Posts: 88
lince will become famous soon enoughlince will become famous soon enough
Re: Round 53 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
I wanted the cutlass to have balls low E/R so that its not just an auto win vs cat co in the round. If ziks were to poor alot of value into Co then so be it they will be able to stop cat co's pretty much solo, but that will only be a few planets out of the 600 that play every round.
True. But Cutlass is a defense ship, which ziks won't build much. Unless ziks try to get a co attack fleet, but that's another issue.
As it is at the moment, it's just empfodder.

Last edited by lince; 31 Jul 2013 at 11:24.
lince is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 13:44   #78
WillyNilly
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 52
WillyNilly is a jewel in the roughWillyNilly is a jewel in the roughWillyNilly is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Still don't see how people will play Cat co with no teamup and 7 ships that target Co.....
WillyNilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 14:24   #79
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Space Invaders Champion, Alien Invasion Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion, Squid Hunter Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,452
Mzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Round 53 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by lince View Post
Lowering it won't solve the question. You can't lower anything below 0. You would need to change resource costs on all the co. Then things will be completely unbalanced and you would need to redo damage and resource costs on the other ships targetting co, to balance it.
Lowering a ship's ERes is the same as raising its cost, dmg and arm. Ship A with (an impossible) -20 ERes that costs 1000 resources, has 10 dmg and 10 arm is roughly equivalent to ship B with 0 ERes that costs 1200 resources, has 12 dmg and 12 arm. The only difference between those ships is that ship A is better at flakking.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 14:52   #80
lince
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portugal
Posts: 88
lince will become famous soon enoughlince will become famous soon enough
Re: Round 53 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Lowering a ship's ERes is the same as raising its cost, dmg and arm. " ... " The only difference between those ships is that ship A is better at flakking.
Don't want to waste too much time discussing formula.
Check bcalc: http://beta.planetarion.com/bcalc.pl?id=8x4056e2lxqelxp

1k phoenix (~4k value) can't get fully frozen by 20k spider (78k value) when they are flaked by 10k cutlass (36k value), while the 10k cutlass get fully frozen.
It just means, cutlass (T1 CO) can't even fire on cath CO (only cutlass target). And lowering empres on CO, as Patrick suggested, will affect beetle.
Ok, spider efficiency is 110% vs cutlass, not that great, but it's just 69% vs beetle and it should just stay like that. Why lower beetle empres?
It will open fighter defense even more, due to init disadvantage over Spider, meaning cath can self-cover more easily vs CO with just Spider and a small amount of Viper.
Solving an issue (spider efficiency) by just changing what shouldn't be changed (lower empres on CO) to equal what's wrong (low empres on cutlass) it's bad.

Last edited by lince; 31 Jul 2013 at 15:13.
lince is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 15:08   #81
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Space Invaders Champion, Alien Invasion Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion, Squid Hunter Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,452
Mzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldMzyxptlk spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Round 53 stats

I made no statements about how well or badly these stats are balanced, nor about how they should or could be improved, so I'm not sure why you're responding as if I did.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 17:27   #82
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 954
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: Round 53 stats

I think you're missing my point, lince, which is that Cutlass's ERes is not low. Spider's efficiency vs the other Co (specifically, Mosquito) is only 62%, which is horrible for EMP.
Patrikc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 19:39   #83
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,569
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: Round 53 stats

Is anyone actually going to bother playing CO with these stats?? These are Tia stats, they aimed towards fr/de/cr/bs fort play. Like always, i can tell from that OTT Etd Emp ship that Tia will be playing ETD already.
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 20:06   #84
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Actually Kia I'm going to either be zik or xan what ever my ally lets me play.

And I'm open to suggestions as to what you want to see other than 2 more fi/co fleets.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 20:23   #85
lince
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portugal
Posts: 88
lince will become famous soon enoughlince will become famous soon enough
Re: Round 53 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
I think you're missing my point, lince, which is that Cutlass's ERes is not low. Spider's efficiency vs the other Co (specifically, Mosquito) is only 62%, which is horrible for EMP.
I'm not, really.
I'm fine with lowering empres for other CO's. As long as beetle init is set to 2, same as spider.
lince is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 20:25   #86
lince
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portugal
Posts: 88
lince will become famous soon enoughlince will become famous soon enough
Re: Round 53 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Actually Kia I'm going to either be zik or xan what ever my ally lets me play.

And I'm open to suggestions as to what you want to see other than 2 more fi/co fleets.
Not needed more fi/co fleets, in my opinion.
As soon as Etd and Zik happen to steal fi/co pods, that will change. Just a guess though.
lince is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 21:03   #87
Kaiba
Valle is my hero
 
Kaiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,569
Kaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud ofKaiba has much to be proud of
Re: Round 53 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Actually Kia I'm going to either be zik or xan what ever my ally lets me play.

And I'm open to suggestions as to what you want to see other than 2 more fi/co fleets.
1 more fi/co fleet. Either etd or zik should have a sufficient fi or co fleet that relays on them stealing pods only, they should not have to steal another co/fi ship to be playable
Kaiba is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 31 Jul 2013, 23:16   #88
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Both Etd and Zik are playable as they are regardless of what steals they do or dont get.

As For Lowing emp effs.... I might just lower all but the beetle leave it at 60% and put the rest of the co at ~~ 70-90% ofc leaving cutlass where it is. But I want the option to be there so that fi/co can roid into cath late in the round if they needed to.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Aug 2013, 12:58   #89
Magnus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 36
Magnus is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round 53 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba View Post
1 more fi/co fleet. Either etd or zik should have a sufficient fi or co fleet that relays on them stealing pods only, they should not have to steal another co/fi ship to be playable
surprisingly like this idea. what about merging predator and thief? give thief init 19, and t1 de t2 fi. that way it has a chance at self sustained lands and also gives etd the much needed ship of ally eta anti fico.

to fill the hole, im thinking another de ship with t1 cr steal and dropping investor t2. this gives etd the chance to get a really solid cr fleet late game while still weakening their de teamup.

Last edited by Magnus; 1 Aug 2013 at 12:59. Reason: typo
Magnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Aug 2013, 14:57   #90
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 954
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: Round 53 stats

How exactly would it be 'self sustained' if every other race had a killship that shoots before it does?
Patrikc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Aug 2013, 15:42   #91
Magnus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 36
Magnus is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round 53 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
How exactly would it be 'self sustained' if every other race had a killship that shoots before it does?
maybe self sustained was the wrong term, but meant usable the same way zik fico fleets usually are, which is: very powerful when teamed with xan/cath.
Magnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Aug 2013, 18:45   #92
Patrikc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 954
Patrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant futurePatrikc has a brilliant future
Re: Round 53 stats

I think Etd with Fi pods has some nice options as it is, although it's pretty weak defensively (except vs bs/cr of course).
Patrikc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 1 Aug 2013, 20:56   #93
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

id be open to changing thief to t2 fi steal but then id have to remodel predator

pred change?
class: de
t1 co
steal init 20{before thief)


drop co from gryphon


thoughts?
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2013, 00:17   #94
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Ok,

So i changed Etd Around a bit:

Thief: T2 Fi Init -> 21
Updated d/c a/c a bit on thief to compensate for the new change.

Predator : Class-> De T1: Co Init 20
Updated d/c and a/c to compesate and gave higher ER

Gryphon: Droped Co T1
D/c Dropped a bit because no longer needed to fire on co. Might consider upping the armor just a bit more.



Change was given to allow Etd to succesfully have ally def fleets so that alliances can safely go etd.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2013, 22:27   #95
Ritzko
The Ant Knight
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 12
Ritzko is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round 53 stats

Do cutlass really not have any E/R? Or is that a typo on the ship stat sheets?
Ritzko is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 2 Aug 2013, 22:29   #96
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

it's all about cost ratios so yes cutlass cost requires the to have 0 er so it has the desired emp eff.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 3 Aug 2013, 19:54   #97
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Last changes and about 99% final the only thing from here on out will be e/r

Cath:

Locust added T2 Cr To better give cat co a 4ship build .

Cutlass d/c A/c fixed a bit to make it not so strong since it only fires on non-kill ships.

Tycoon D/C A/C dropped a bit as it was too strong E/R decreased a bit.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Aug 2013, 00:56   #98
Magnus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 36
Magnus is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Round 53 stats

interesting that you fight for 4 ship builds when xan is now the only race required to have 5 ships minimum and likely 6 by end of round.

consider this (though a bit of a wacky idea, ill admit): merge pulsar and phantom and keep xan fi pods. this gives fi a very interesting play style and likely the buff fico needs to be playable. also, if you make the t2 co, that class also becomes very playable.
Magnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 4 Aug 2013, 07:07   #99
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Ter:
Phoenix d/c increased so it is atleast 100% vs xan fi after they fire




STATS ARE FINAL !!!!!! The only changes that will be made now will be by Appocomaster and are out of my hands.

I hope we can enjoy a round of some nice roidswaps and unforgetabble defwhores
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 8 Aug 2013, 02:33   #100
Papadoc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 154
Papadoc is a jewel in the roughPapadoc is a jewel in the roughPapadoc is a jewel in the roughPapadoc is a jewel in the rough
Re: Round 53 stats

Swap thief target to fi-de plz. Its outrageous not to
__________________
BOOM
Papadoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2002 - 2018