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29 Mar 2004, 00:56
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#1
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☆ ♥
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,489
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The proposed law
To ban smoking in public places in Ireland. Your opinion?
In interest, does this apply to Irish citizens like JBG? (I realise the law doesn't stretch over to here but he's still Irish )
__________________
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29 Mar 2004, 00:57
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#2
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wild one
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: River Edge, NJ
Posts: 3,313
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Re: The proposed law
Bad idea.
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29 Mar 2004, 00:57
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#3
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: The proposed law
****ing stupid; don't want to breathe smoke? Don't go to a ****ing pub.
**** me, that seems to be a rather simple solution with no outlay. Fantastic!
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You're now playing ketchup
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29 Mar 2004, 01:02
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#4
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☆ ♥
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,489
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Re: The proposed law
I feel we should chip in to get pab to a free stress release session.
My vote goes for a meditation session.
__________________
R3: LegioN (came #32) || R4: BlueTuba
R5: WolfPack Order || R6: Wolfpack
R7: Fury
----------retired-------
R52-R55: Apprime
R56-R57: FaceLess
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29 Mar 2004, 01:05
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#5
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Has Soup On His Head
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 10,095
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Re: The proposed law
****ing great idea.
Fed up going into a pub to meet friends with an expensive shirt and coming out smelling like ive smoked 40 rollies. Anti social bastards. Make them stink out their own ****ing houses, not PUBLIC houses.
__________________
And the Banker, inspired with a courage so new
It was matter for general remark,
Rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view
In his zeal to discover the Snark
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29 Mar 2004, 01:11
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#6
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: The proposed law
Hey maybe we should ban alcohol because people get rowdy, too.
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You're now playing ketchup
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29 Mar 2004, 01:13
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#7
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BlueTuba
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima
****ing great idea.
Fed up going into a pub to meet friends with an expensive shirt and coming out smelling like ive smoked 40 rollies. Anti social bastards. Make them stink out their own ****ing houses, not PUBLIC houses.
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__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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29 Mar 2004, 01:14
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#8
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☆ ♥
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,489
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Re: The proposed law
No alcohol is the cheapest known legal way to seduce someone*
*This info is priceless to Dace kiddies.
__________________
R3: LegioN (came #32) || R4: BlueTuba
R5: WolfPack Order || R6: Wolfpack
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29 Mar 2004, 01:16
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#9
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Henry Kelly
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 7,374
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Re: The proposed law
If people want smoke-free pubs that much, the market will provide them. See? It's already happening, there's a fair few pubs and restaurants that use their non-smoking policy as an advert. Niche market, ho!
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You're now playing ketchup
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29 Mar 2004, 01:17
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#10
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☆ ♥
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,489
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Re: The proposed law
Smoking is wrong and immoral.
Getting high is not however.
__________________
R3: LegioN (came #32) || R4: BlueTuba
R5: WolfPack Order || R6: Wolfpack
R7: Fury
----------retired-------
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29 Mar 2004, 01:23
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#11
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NEWSBOT
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The enby cave!
Posts: 4,872
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima
****ing great idea.
Fed up going into a pub to meet friends with an expensive shirt and coming out smelling like ive smoked 40 rollies. Anti social bastards. Make them stink out their own ****ing houses, not PUBLIC houses.
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__________________
[20:27:47] <nodrog-aawy> **** i think my housemate just caught me masturbating
[11:25:32] <idimmu> you are a little piggy arent you
[13:17:00] <KaneED> i'm so closet i'm like narnia
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Pretty parks and funky scrap metal things here
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29 Mar 2004, 02:09
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 940
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablissimo
If people want smoke-free pubs that much, the market will provide them. See? It's already happening, there's a fair few pubs and restaurants that use their non-smoking policy as an advert. Niche market, ho!
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That doesn't work on the basis that in a group of friends going out there is always going to be some smokers and some non-smokers. So the pubs will end up empty, as everyone can sit in the Smokers Arms, but not all of them can sit happilly in the non-Smokers Arms. A problem that can only be solved by banning smoking in pubs altogether.
Also as for your other point, drinking alcohol in front of something does not effect their health directly, nor their smell. Smoking on the otherhand...
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29 Mar 2004, 02:11
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 940
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Re: The proposed law
At Bath University there is not a single place that you can smoke indoors at lunch time now, I found this a little harsh as they just stretched the ban to the one last place smokers could go when it was pissing it down with rain to smoke whilst on campus.
Oh well... they are going to die anyway so they may as well die wet.
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29 Mar 2004, 02:19
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#14
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7 Dimensional Puddleduck
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Not where I want to be :(
Posts: 1,556
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablissimo
****ing stupid; don't want to breathe smoke? Don't go to a ****ing pub.
**** me, that seems to be a rather simple solution with no outlay. Fantastic!
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Ace.
Plus If you don't wanna be killed by a drink driver don't go anywhere near roads!
__________________
<CmdrCyrax> I'm sure GDers are bastions of the civilized world.
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29 Mar 2004, 03:22
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#15
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Re: The proposed law
Also if you don't want to be molested by a paedophile don't be a kid.
__________________
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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29 Mar 2004, 04:29
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#16
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Next goal wins!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: London
Posts: 5,406
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Re: The proposed law
smoking in public places is
and if you cant smoke in clubs. what the **** are you supposed to do? leave every time you want a ciggy. This will be very bad news for ecstacy culture. As it makes you absolutely dying for a cigarette, id have to give up before i went out again, it would be SHIT.
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bastard bastard bastard bastard
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29 Mar 2004, 08:22
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#17
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: The proposed law
We've done this debate many times, it's a bad idea. I absolutley hate the smell of smoke, but this doesn't mean we should use the law to enforce my personal preferences.
Having said that, I'd prefer more consumer pressure on pubs to provide non-smoking environments.
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29 Mar 2004, 08:23
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#18
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J to the C to the A G E
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Scúnthorpe
Posts: 5,583
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Re: The proposed law
Smoking is bad, but assuming it was right to ban smoking in public places, that still wouldn't explain banning it at work.
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29 Mar 2004, 08:26
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#19
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
Smoking is bad, but assuming it was right to ban smoking in public places, that still wouldn't explain banning it at work.
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They're working from some odd definition of "public place" which extends to any private property where the public might go.
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29 Mar 2004, 11:22
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#20
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lolly roffle
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,514
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Re: The proposed law
I dont see why i should have to breathe in someone elses Cancer fumes in a public place. The sooner they ban it the better.
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eXcessum
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29 Mar 2004, 11:28
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#21
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurashima
****ing great idea.
Fed up going into a pub to meet friends with an expensive shirt and coming out smelling like ive smoked 40 rollies. Anti social bastards. Make them stink out their own ****ing houses, not PUBLIC houses.
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Yep.
I'd also like to see some protection given for those who wish to discriminate against smokers. As a teller i'd feel it should be my personal right to refuse to serve anyone stinking of smoke.
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
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29 Mar 2004, 11:29
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#22
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
I dont see why i should have to breathe in someone elses Cancer fumes in a public place. The sooner they ban it the better.
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If I leave my front door open and have a sign on it saying "You can come in if you want, but beware, there's some smoke inside" - is my house a public place and do you have the right to stop me from smoking inside?
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29 Mar 2004, 11:40
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#23
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lolly roffle
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,514
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Re: The proposed law
Trying to say a pub is like your house and so isnt a public place is a stupid argument. That would also make a shop or restaurant a non-public place as they are "private property where the public goes" as you put it.
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eXcessum
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29 Mar 2004, 11:46
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#24
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
Trying to say a pub is like your house and so isnt a public place is a stupid argument. That would also make a shop or restaurant a non-public place as they are "private property where the public goes" as you put it.
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A restaurant is a private place (imho). It's privately owned, privately run, they only allow in who they wish (i.e. restricted entry).
Just because they have a licence to sell food doesn't make it "public".
If I hold a sale from my garage, is it public?
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29 Mar 2004, 11:48
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#25
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Re: The proposed law
a lot of this boils down to whether you consider a smoky pub, or a non smoky pub, "the normal".
I dont mind smokers in pubs a lot of the time, unless
a/ The next morning i smell my clothes and they ****ing stink
b/ I'm trying to eat and its all i can smell
Sorry, i couldnt give a shit for the rights of smokers. I think if it should be allowed at all, it should be merely yourself, and your own poor kids lungs you should fill with that shit
__________________
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29 Mar 2004, 11:48
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#26
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lolly roffle
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,514
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Re: The proposed law
So what is a public place? A field in the middle of nowhere that happens to be owned by nobody?
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eXcessum
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29 Mar 2004, 11:50
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#27
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
So what is a public place? A field in the middle of nowhere that happens to be owned by nobody?
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Something that's owned by the public. ie a government or directly government controlled area.
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29 Mar 2004, 11:51
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#28
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
So what is a public place? A field in the middle of nowhere that happens to be owned by nobody?
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No, a school, hospitals, libraries, the roads, etc. Generally in our current economy anything owned by the public (via the state) is a public place.
If someone said "Public buildings are in a shocking state of disrepair" would you think they meant private offices?
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29 Mar 2004, 11:54
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#29
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King of The Fat Boys
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,332
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Re: The proposed law
Restaurants & pubs are already strictly regulated. You are only allowed to sell alcohol until a certain time, you have to meet certain hygiene standards if you want to serve food, you have to make sure that your employees are not taking undue risks, etc...
Stopping people smoking in these places is not much of an extra stretch.
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29 Mar 2004, 11:58
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#30
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
Stopping people smoking in these places is not much of an extra stretch.
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So basically, we've already got so little freedom, who cares about another bit?
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29 Mar 2004, 11:58
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#31
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
Restaurants & pubs are already strictly regulated. You are only allowed to sell alcohol until a certain time, you have to meet certain hygiene standards if you want to serve food, you have to make sure that your employees are not taking undue risks, etc...
Stopping people smoking in these places is not much of an extra stretch.
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That's different. It's making something that is illegal elsewhere (selling alcohol for example) legal, not making something that is legal elsewhere illegal.
How about the government makes it illegal to wear football tops in bars? Or the wearing of the colour blue?
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29 Mar 2004, 12:04
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#32
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King of The Fat Boys
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,332
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
So basically, we've already got so little freedom, who cares about another bit?
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Well, depends how you look at it really.
After all I don't see regulations on hygiene standards in kitchens as loss of freedom. Do I want to have the freedom to eat in some skanky, run down hell hole, where I will probably contract multiple weird and wonderful diseases? Er.... no!
In Ireland the smoking ban is marketed as protecting the health of the workers, which the government is perfectly entitled to do. I don't personally agree with the ban but you can't say the ban is wrong because a pub is not a public place.
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29 Mar 2004, 12:07
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#33
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King of The Fat Boys
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,332
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
That's different. It's making something that is illegal elsewhere (selling alcohol for example) legal, not making something that is legal elsewhere illegal.
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What's the difference? Either way it's a double standard.
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29 Mar 2004, 12:07
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#34
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChubbyChecker
Well, depends how you look at it really.
After all I don't see regulations on hygiene standards in kitchens as loss of freedom. Do I want to have the freedom to eat in some skanky, run down hell hole, where I will probably contract multiple weird and wonderful diseases? Er.... no!
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I don't particularly want the freedom to smoke, that means everyone else doesn't want to so we can ban smoking can't we?
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29 Mar 2004, 12:08
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#35
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Rawr rawr
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Upside down
Posts: 5,300
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Re: The proposed law
People putting a smoking stick in their mouth and sucking on it.
COME ON!!! It's probably the stupidest habbit ever invented.
__________________
"Yay"
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29 Mar 2004, 12:09
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#36
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King of The Fat Boys
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,332
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I don't particularly want the freedom to smoke, that means everyone else doesn't want to so we can ban smoking can't we?
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The issue is about public health, not personal preference
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29 Mar 2004, 12:22
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#37
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
So basically, we've already got so little freedom, who cares about another bit?
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Freedom is overrated
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
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29 Mar 2004, 12:28
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#38
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lolly roffle
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 5,514
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
So basically, we've already got so little freedom, who cares about another bit?
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I'm quite happy for people to kill themselves in anyway they want in their own home but i dont see why i should suffer from their smoke in a place i have to go to if i wish to drink draught beer with my friends, none of whom smoke.
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eXcessum
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29 Mar 2004, 12:59
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#39
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
I'm quite happy for people to kill themselves in anyway they want in their own home but i dont see why i should suffer from their smoke in a place i have to go to if i wish to drink draught beer with my friends, none of whom smoke.
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Noone's forcing you to go to the pub.
'They should ban smoking because I like going to a friends house and he smokes and I don't like smoking and why should I have to go somewhere smokey'
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29 Mar 2004, 13:03
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#40
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Re: The proposed law
why should it be a smokers right to smoke in a pub? You presume smoking is the normal and non smokers should have to deal accordingly.
__________________
Believe in me, cause i don't believe in anything
And i wanna be someone, to believe, to believe in
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29 Mar 2004, 13:08
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#41
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deffeh
why should it be a smokers right to smoke in a pub? You presume smoking is the normal and non smokers should have to deal accordingly.
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Smoking being legal IS the normal.
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29 Mar 2004, 13:11
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#42
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: The proposed law
Personally I disagree with the decision. The government has no right to tell pub owners what they are permitted to allow occur on their own property.
However I must admit I'm surprised to see dante arguing this point of view seeing as I recall him arguing for rules to be set in place on factories which release pollution into the environment and therefore impact on anyone living nearby. Surely this would just be a similar case to that one, albeit on a smaller scale?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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29 Mar 2004, 13:20
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#43
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Personally I disagree with the decision. The government has no right to tell pub owners what they are permitted to allow occur on their own property.
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Agreed.
Quote:
However I must admit I'm surprised to see dante arguing this point of view seeing as I recall him arguing for rules to be set in place on factories which release pollution into the environment and therefore impact on anyone living nearby. Surely this would just be a similar case to that one, albeit on a smaller scale?
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Don't be ridiculous. Issues like this are all about what's reasonable. For instance, let's say I live next door to a man, and I play music at 5000 decibels all night every night. I think it's fair enough that the man should be able to restrict my right to do this (either through some sort of tort, or through criminal law, whatever). However, this doesn't mean that you allow government to regulate what people can listen to full-stop, or other such nonsense.
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29 Mar 2004, 13:24
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#44
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The Twilight of the Gods
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 23,481
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
However I must admit I'm surprised to see dante arguing this point of view seeing as I recall him arguing for rules to be set in place on factories which release pollution into the environment and therefore impact on anyone living nearby. Surely this would just be a similar case to that one, albeit on a smaller scale?
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I'd say it's different, because it's a restriction on corporate liberty as opposed to individual liberty. It's not just a difference in scale, either, because in happiness terms, noone is gaining anything (other than a small amount of money) from polluting the atmosphere, whereas tobacco has obvious plusses to the users.
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29 Mar 2004, 13:26
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#45
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Agreed.
Don't be ridiculous. Issues like this are all about what's reasonable. For instance, let's say I live next door to a man, and I play music at 5000 decibels all night every night. I think it's fair enough that the man should be able to restrict my right to do this (either through some sort of tort, or through criminal law, whatever). However, this doesn't mean that you allow government to regulate what people can listen to full-stop, or other such nonsense.
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We're hardly proposing banning smoking in a submersible on the ocean floor here. However there are medical studies which clearly show that close proximity to smokers can lead to the same health problems that afflict them. I'm pretty sure the guy with lung cancer won't consider it reasonable that you allowed everyone to smoke in his favourite pub.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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29 Mar 2004, 13:28
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#46
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I'd say it's different, because it's a restriction on corporate liberty as opposed to individual liberty. It's not just a difference in scale, either, because in happiness terms, noone is gaining anything (other than a small amount of money) from polluting the atmosphere, whereas tobacco has obvious plusses to the users.
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Fine then. If I decided to release fourteen cubic tons of methalayted hydroxiline from my roof every day because I enjoyed the way it smelled would that be okay?
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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29 Mar 2004, 13:30
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#47
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NEWSBOT
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The enby cave!
Posts: 4,872
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
smoking in public places is
and if you cant smoke in clubs. what the **** are you supposed to do? leave every time you want a ciggy. This will be very bad news for ecstacy culture. As it makes you absolutely dying for a cigarette, id have to give up before i went out again, it would be SHIT.
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oh yeah, that LEGAL ecstacy culture.
cant forget them.
__________________
[20:27:47] <nodrog-aawy> **** i think my housemate just caught me masturbating
[11:25:32] <idimmu> you are a little piggy arent you
[13:17:00] <KaneED> i'm so closet i'm like narnia
__________________
Pretty parks and funky scrap metal things here
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29 Mar 2004, 13:33
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#48
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
We're hardly proposing banning smoking in a submersible on the ocean floor here. However there are medical studies which clearly show that close proximity to smokers can lead to the same health problems that afflict them. I'm pretty sure the guy with lung cancer won't consider it reasonable that you allowed everyone to smoke in his favourite pub.
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That's the point though. Some guy smoking in a pub doesn't affect me unless I make a conscious effort to go there (and so long as it's signed I can hardly be surprised if people smoke). If he comes into my home and blows smoke into my face then obviously it's a different matter.
With factories producing smoke, I can hardly move to a different Earths atmosphere can I?
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29 Mar 2004, 13:33
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#49
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Re: The proposed law
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3
oh yeah, that LEGAL ecstacy culture.
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Why does that matter?
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29 Mar 2004, 13:38
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#50
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Angry Young Man
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Posts: 7,518
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Re: The proposed law
I cant believe you are using the "you dont have to go to xyz pub" line. Why should life be made difficult for non smokers? They arent the ones polluting the air etc, life should be made as difficult for smokers as possible
__________________
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