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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:18   #1
alch
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Discussion about merging.

I would like to raise few question to the community and ask the people to gently comment and discuss this in this thread without really flaming each other or the admin for doing what they have done. we dont want to make a vendetta against the admin or anything else but just put some light on what happened today.

Today, it has occured to me and to the rest of the community that Sin and ND has been merged together to form a new alliance called SINND.
If i remember right, ND was still in top10 (ranked #9) and Sin was Top15 somewhere.
After the merge, SINND is ranked #3.

The question i have to the community is:
- Do you think that such a merge will have an impact on the game and the politics in a bad or good way?
- Do you think that merging 2 alliances that were mostly out of top10 and leading them to misplace around 10 alliances out of their respective ranks (which they worked hard for) is JUST?
-Are the other alliances which are consisted of paying customers, should have a say in such merge?
-IS it a call that only one admin should take? or is it a call that the whole PATEAM should vote on it? (knowing that few Admin werent updated about the merge, i think this is a valid Questions)
- Do you think that the new dynamics of the game (having top planets hard to be taken down because of the XP factor) such an alliance ending #3 at this stage of the round will be hard to be taken down?
-Do you think that any other request from alliance in top10 or even out of top10 to merge should be granted automatically even if the outcome would be to end at rank #1 or #2?

My stand is that the admin made a mistake by merging them, they are jeopardizing the work some alliances were putting in to take down ND.
Especially alliances who were under ND for a while and fought them for a while to make sure they would pass them, but now are AGAIN under them.

Ranks should be acquired by a fight and war and not by merging like ND did with SIN.

Please post only relevant comment, straight to the point without flaming. thanks.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:31   #2
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Re: Discussion about merging.

It's definitely unfair for the admin to make such changes to the game. They should've had to gone 72 ticks without an alliance if they wanted to make a new one.

Last edited by Deceiver; 8 May 2005 at 22:37.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:32   #3
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Actually, merging like this is in the rules, and is done more often than you might think. I know of alliances in the top 20 which have merged in several instances this round.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:34   #4
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Actually, it's completely within the rules, and is a system entirely designed to not have large numbers of people completely allianceless for 3 days.
The 72tick penalty is mostly to stop rapid movements by individuals, flitting to stay in the top alliance, whereas a merge is largely a long term arrangement.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:35   #5
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Re: Discussion about merging.

I think it was a biased descision to allow a merger (which is frankly just moving members) for alliances. Why not allow members or groups of members move from tag to another while on it?
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:39   #6
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manual
Alliances can merge at the request of their HCs. This procedure involves 2 (unless there is only 1 HC) or more HCs from each alliance pamailing an admin and making the request. The request should include the names of the alliances to be merged and name of the new merged alliance. Note: All ingame ranks are maintained during a merge, but in game forums information, attacks and defence calls set up in game may be lost. A merge is also only possible if the total number of members for the new merged alliance will be less than the limit of 100. Mergers will also not be allowed in the last 4 weeks of the round.
As you can see merges are specifically allowed by the rules in the manual. Merging alliances has been in the games for a few rounds and it is an actual feature of PATeam's controls.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:39   #7
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
I think it was a biased descision to allow a merger (which is frankly just moving members) for alliances. Why not allow members or groups of members move from tag to another while on it?
That's not really the same thing... a merger creates something new (sort of), whereas moving is just moving.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:40   #8
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Re: Discussion about merging.

- Do you think that such a merge will have an impact on the game and the politics in a bad or good way?
I don't think in good or bad. It will have a minor influence. It might be good to some and bad to others.

- Do you think that merging 2 alliances that were mostly out of top10 and leading them to misplace around 10 alliances out of their respective ranks (which they worked hard for) is JUST?
It is just that within some rules alliances are allowed to merge.

-Are the other alliances which are consisted of paying customers, should have a say in such merge?
It's none of their business. If all the major alliances had an agreement about rules for merges PA team would probably be willing to follow them.

-IS it a call that only one admin should take? or is it a call that the whole PATEAM should vote on it? (knowing that few Admin werent updated about the merge, i think this is a valid Questions)
One admin should be able to apply the rules if he has doubt about the specific case.

- Do you think that the new dynamics of the game (having top planets hard to be taken down because of the XP factor) such an alliance ending #3 at this stage of the round will be hard to be taken down?
I think it will be hard to take them down to the bottom of the top10 again.

-Do you think that any other request from alliance in top10 or even out of top10 to merge should be granted automatically even if the outcome would be to end at rank #1 or #2?
That's what the rules seem to allow now. I have no objections against it personally. Remember that a merger is only possible upto 4 weeks before the end of the round. Another point is that SiN seemed to have lost their viability. If you are too small to stand on your own, you merge or die.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:42   #9
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Lets discuss a possible event.
Lets take the top 2 alliance with High Average score, TOT and Exilition or Angels and Exilition.
if you kick out of the 135 members ouf of theses 2 alliance merging, all the players under 3mil, then you will mostly finish with an alliance with 3mil average and up.
Which mean 100 member * 3mil AVG = an alliance with 300 million.
Take in mind the XP factor and that Taking roids out of theses 100 members (even if the whole universe will gang on them), then you wont have enough time to displace such an alliance out of top1.
Now after this merge, i think this should be a good idea to merge, as its in the "RULES" and the MANUAL.

Remember not evey rules is JUST. i am not discussing if this has been done under the rules or not, i am here to discuss wether the rules are right or not.
I claim that such rules just jeopardize the work other alliance have been doing all this round, and im saying that this is danger for a fairplay.
What would WP say about the NEW alliance taking the 1st spot and knowing they couldnt take them down? im sure half of their members would go inactives or something knowing they been defeating by such unfair tactic.

This is plain unfair, we would have won the war by a technical rule which would have allowed us to end top1 and not by a hard fought battle.

Anyone able to see my point?
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Unread 8 May 2005, 22:53   #10
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Surely if you merged with Exi, we'd be in the same position we were before, with you on top?
It's within the rules and perfectly just. You'd just have to go take that step and tell 35 people that they suck too much to be in the winning alliance, co-ordinate with another HC, agree on a name, and deal with identity issues, and merge within the next 4 days.
If you aren't prepared to do that, it's like an alliance not being prepared to wave their enemies into the dust. It's a step that some might not consider fair, but it can have a significant impact on the game.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:03   #11
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Re: Discussion about merging.

I agree. I seriously don't understand the fuss

If you dont like the fact that 2 smaller allys merged (both outside of top 10 i might add) and overtook your ally... then go and find some active peeps in a smaller ally and merge. If you dont want to do that then its your own problem really and SiN and ND cannot be held as "cheaters" or whatever because you had the option to merge but you didnt... thats tactics for you.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:10   #12
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
I agree. I seriously don't understand the fuss
Read my post again, you might get a clue and understand why i am pissed.

Quote:
If you dont like the fact that 2 smaller allys merged (both outside of top 10 i might add) and overtook your ally... then go and find some active peeps in a smaller ally and merge.
we dont need to find a smaller alliance, apparently PA would allow us to merge with any alliance an overtook you, but since you didnt acquire your rank with hard work, i dont think you will be THAT upset if another alliance would overtake you with the very same tactics, but i doubt other alliance would react like you are right now.

Quote:
If you dont want to do that then its your own problem really and SiN and ND cannot be held as "cheaters" or whatever because you had the option to merge but you didnt... thats tactics for you.
Please quote where i been stating you were cheater? i fail to see where i been claiming this up.
Cheater ? NO
Easy rank climbing? and no Fair play? YES.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:16   #13
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Re: Discussion about merging.

the thing is we did work for it. Albiet not under this name

SiN and ND both had superb avg scores for our rank which was worked hard for. Now although we may not have had the spotlight on us for that time we do now.

In actuall fact we didnt merge to piss anyone off or to get rank 3, thats just a bonus. We simply want to have a fun end of round.

So yes we did jump many ranks
yes we did it fast
did we work for it? Yes bloody hard, but under 2 names.
do we deserve 3rd? we shall see wont we.

Not intended to be a flame just clearing some facts and trying to show points of view
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:20   #14
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Alch, you'd be correct if it weren't for the fact that every member in SiN and ND had to go through the hardships of being separated. These players played through the hostility, through the incoming, through the inactivity, and persevered.

If we had slacked off for a few months and then somehow vaulted ahead of others, then you'd have a case. As it stands, each of ND's 65 members and SiN's 35 members have played Planetarion well - and their rank reflects it.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:21   #15
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
So yes we did jump many ranks
yes we did it fast
did we work for it? Yes bloody hard, but under 2 names.
do we deserve 3rd? we shall see wont we
Let me clear something for you, you did work hard for your respective ranks, which mean #9 and #14 or something, but you never worked hard for #3. theses are the facts.
If you do deserve the rank3 or not, it will be up to you and how good you can cooperate together.
I have the feeling you wont end in top5 not because i dont think you arent good enough for it, but the political move you just made will get more fire on you.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:25   #16
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Re: Discussion about merging.

We have 100 members with an average score of about 1.6 mil.

How did we not earn that? Each of those members has played fairly, none of them have cheated or farmed. Each of those members has attacked enemies. Each of those members has defended friends.

We play the same game that you do, we just took a tactical step that you didnt. I'm sorry you're jealous.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:32   #17
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Re: Discussion about merging.

I think Alch's point is:

You were rank #11 and #17 ish (right?). Ofcourse you get your share of incomings. But don't you think that an alliance ranked #3 is MUCH closer watched by the contenders for the topspots than (with all due respect) alliances outside the top10? Ofcourse! Especially SiN with it's low rank has not been the prime target of the ongoing war. But if ND and SiN had started together, you would have likely be the largest alliance in your block, and gotten more incomings.

YES you deserved your old rankings, but NO, you have NOT (yet) prooven that you are worthy of being top3 imho.

edit: I've not bene playing this round seriously, and I have no alliance, so I'm not too involved in this. I was pissed off when FYTFO happened too.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:37   #18
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Re: Discussion about merging.

I guess we will have to prove that then
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:39   #19
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
We have 100 members with an average score of about 1.6 mil.

How did we not earn that? Each of those members has played fairly, none of them have cheated or farmed. Each of those members has attacked enemies. Each of those members has defended friends.

We play the same game that you do, we just took a tactical step that you didnt. I'm sorry you're jealous
Ok let me explain something then, maybe you will understand, maybe not but if you fail to understand my point, let just conclude that we will agree to disagree and move on to the next topic as its will just take this thread to another level which i dont want.

1)when you got alliance A and alliance B with 80 members each, you will always have some players with high average and some players with low average score. this happened somewhat because of each individual playing in some manners and also happen because of the players in the alliance.
lets say you take the 100 members you have in SINND and put them together in the same alliance at the begining of the round, i doubt they would all have get the same AVG score.
Lets take the possibility that merging TOT and Exilition top players, if you would have take theses top players and put them together in the same alliances from the begining, then i doubt they would have ended with 4mil average score or somethin. because the mix of theses players would have bring something else.
What im trying to say is that having your 2 alliances playing separatly is another story as having your 2 alliances playing together from the begining which is why i think the figure would have been different. and that why i claim your alliance together as a combined force doesnt deserve this rank, tho i cant prove mathematically what ranks you would deserve, i may aswell be wrong. i just happen to have a different point of view than yours.
This is true that every of your player deserve his own ranks right now, but playing with different players than the one he play with now, would have an impact on his ranks by now.
Anyway, i never called you cheaters, or never called you lame, i just said such merging isnt the top of the fair play.
its its a valid tactic? yes it seems to be in the manual then its in the rule, but i argue that the rule arent fair.
I dont argue if you guys made a right decision or not, for you it seems the perfect decision and i can understand why, im more pissed about the manual and the rules within that could give such alliances in the game a possibility to displace other alliance just by a button click.
my feeling would have been the same with any other alliance and that in any way related to ND or Sin specifcially.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:42   #20
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|Pony
I'm sorry you're jealous.
Sorry, dont see why i should be jealous, you just got yourself another bunch of incoming set for the next week.
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Unread 8 May 2005, 23:57   #21
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Put your money where your mouth is Alch.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:07   #22
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alch
Sorry, dont see why i should be jealous, you just got yourself another bunch of incoming set for the next week.
Nice to see Angels deciding their politics with mind matter and not emotions yet again.

Continue to prove yourself as a top alliance like this and you may get #1 before Jolt go bankrupt.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:14   #23
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Re: Discussion about merging.

its a fact, not jealousy, sure u grew now, u seriously think you are capable of dealing with the new incs ur about to recieve compared to the incs u recieved before, and since u have memberss buddypacked together , it makes the merge alot more sensible
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:16   #24
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
its a fact, not jealousy, sure u grew now, u seriously think you are capable of dealing with the new incs ur about to recieve compared to the incs u recieved before, and since u have memberss buddypacked together , it makes the merge alot more sensible
Yeah, it's not like ND or SIN haven't been receiving en-masse incomings so far this round is it? Really, the ranks beyond #1 are worthless anyway aren't they?
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:16   #25
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Re: Discussion about merging.

To those complaining about this all I have to say is "Told you so". I've raised an issue with merging on a number of occasions as it allows an alliance to gain a rank they dont deserve and continually people like those complaining have told me that its perfectly fine as its in the rules UNTIL it directly effects you. Hey ive even mentioned to people the possability for this exact thing to happen and the rounds outcome to be changed significantly but I was ignored.

Perhaps maybe now some of you will learn that things that go on lower down arent just a small alliance issue but also raises issues for you big guys also
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:19   #26
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alch
I would like to raise few question to the community and ask the people to gently comment and discuss this in this thread without really flaming each other or the admin for doing what they have done. we dont want to make a vendetta against the admin or anything else but just put some light on what happened today.

Today, it has occured to me and to the rest of the community that Sin and ND has been merged together to form a new alliance called SINND.
If i remember right, ND was still in top10 (ranked #9) and Sin was Top15 somewhere.
After the merge, SINND is ranked #3.

u just can face the fact that we over took you. OMG U DROPPED A RANK well woopdedo deal with it
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:22   #27
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l
Nice to see Angels deciding their politics with mind matter and not emotions yet again.

Continue to prove yourself as a top alliance like this and you may get #1 before Jolt go bankrupt.

alch is speaking as alch, a player. If he has qwlams about this alliance merger then he will voice them. Much like KJ/SF and I voiced ours. We may not like the loss of rankings but its spilled milk imo. We have our own battles to fight atm and cant be getting involved ingame with this merger business atm

So as the only official Angels HC reponse to the merger, We wish ND and Sin the best of luck in the coming weeks.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:23   #28
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Re: Discussion about merging.

ah tm. what would we do without you .
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:24   #29
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l
Yeah, it's not like ND or SIN haven't been receiving en-masse incomings so far this round is it? Really, the ranks beyond #1 are worthless anyway aren't they?
oh and the rest of the alliances have been dancing around trees throwing pretty little flowers at each other, weeeee.

i saw u offered some1 a penny, well i say take ur penny back and buy urself a clue
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:25   #30
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Alki - you obviously got lost on the sarcasm.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:32   #31
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
alch is speaking as alch, a player. If he has qwlams about this alliance merger then he will voice them. Much like KJ/SF and I voiced ours. We may not like the loss of rankings but its spilled milk imo. We have our own battles to fight atm and cant be getting involved ingame with this merger business atm

So as the only official Angels HC reponse to the merger, We wish ND and Sin the best of luck in the coming weeks.
Excellent post.

I withdraw any erronous statement to imply that Angels will be the one doing this 'increased incoming'.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:35   #32
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l
Nice to see Angels deciding their politics with mind matter and not emotions yet again.

Continue to prove yourself as a top alliance like this and you may get #1 before Jolt go bankrupt.
1) i never stated i was talking as Angels HC, in all my my discussion with people i state again and again, i am in NO position to speak as an Angels Official.
2)When i said that ND just got themselves a bunch more of incoming, i didnt stated that Angels will attack them (see point 1) but stated that they are in position that more alliance will want to overtake them, alliance #4/5/6/7/8/9/10.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:38   #33
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Personally I find it slightly silly that whole alliances can operate outside the 72 tick rule. Obviously its fair and legal and whatever and such but I don't think it's a feature I'd like to see in future rounds of planetarion.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:39   #34
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Before I start - this post is not on behalf of VGN in anyway. It simply represents the views of one VGN officer.

Any-ho. Let's ditch this crap about ND having been 11th when they merged with SiN. They were 10th, and simply kicked 20 members in order to accomodate the SiN merge. Most of these members were reasonably inactive in some way or another, so they are no great loss for ND. At the same time, SiN kicked its most inactive members.

I heard about a merger happening between ND and SiN earlier today, and assumed (as everyone else outside of the two alliances probably did) that the SiN members would have to go 72 hours without an alliance before joining ND. Of course, this would open them up to attack, and I thought about keeping an eye out for when SiN actually dissolved so that any 'easy' roids could be harvested (cynical but realistic, given how crucial ally defence is).

So I got on with covering some more incomings from the original poster's alliance , and amused myself with Barrow coming into #vgn welcoming us to 10th. It didn't last long.


I've never opposed alliance merging in the past, when I've heard about it happening among the smaller alliances. But this is different: it takes two strong alliances (just look at their average score) and creates a major force in the game (which they now have the power, if not necessarily the skills to be). When smaller alliances merge, it 'simply' takes them up a plane in the alliance hierarchy. But when two big alliances merge, there are no more planes to fight on. Instead, it dramatically skews the plane that both alliances were already on.

Do I oppose a merge? No. I will not go that far. But there could have at least been some warning of the intent to merge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrow|pony
Alch, you'd be correct if it weren't for the fact that every member in SiN and ND had to go through the hardships of being separated. These players played through the hostility, through the incoming, through the inactivity, and persevered.
Every alliance has had other alliances hostile to them. Every alliance has had major incoming at some point. Every alliance has had to deal with inactives (trust me on this one ). Most alliances have persevered. Please don't consider yourself special just because you've had to deal with these things as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyodor
So as the only official Angels HC reponse to the merger, We wish ND and Sin the best of luck in the coming weeks.
In my more offical capacity, Vengeance also wish NewDawn and SiN a Round 13 that remains enjoyable, and wish them every luck in their partnership together.


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Unread 9 May 2005, 00:39   #35
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Alki is our resident drunk, that's why he's our PR guy. Well, I like to think of him being a PR compared Kj who never shuts up
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Unread 9 May 2005, 02:13   #36
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonentity
I've never opposed alliance merging in the past, when I've heard about it happening among the smaller alliances. But this is different: it takes two strong alliances (just look at their average score) and creates a major force in the game (which they now have the power, if not necessarily the skills to be). When smaller alliances merge, it 'simply' takes them up a plane in the alliance hierarchy. But when two big alliances merge, there are no more planes to fight on. Instead, it dramatically skews the plane that both alliances were already on.
It doesnt matter what level its at its still the same. It might nor effect you lower down when it happens but it does effect others in the same way. Smaller alliance (of which btw SiN were very much part of) may not be pushing for a win but they are fighting their own battles which are just as important and when a merger throws things out of sync without any way of responding before the merge takes place and moves them out of range it hits home just as much. I mean lets look at this round from an F-Crew members point of view. Members were dissapointed to see our start with us langusing in 20th place with APA just above is. While above us they were in a challangeable reange but they were quickly merging with alliances to move them up to the 14th place they hold now. So we were langishing down their and we suddenly lose the alliance above us that we were aiming for. Then a few days later we suddenly find ourselves in 21st. It turns out coven have merged with anyone who would and are now way above us. Again it was another kick in the teeth as our ranking was poor even though the alliance was going great.

Anyway we spend our time making inroads into the alliances above us, G.O.A.T are quickly dispatched, as are IRON and then SiN. hirr and rock would then fall soon after. All this was acheived by sheer hard work by all the alliance and we were all immensly proud. Then we suddenly see SiN sittting in 3rd place. An alliance we all put alot of effort into getting past is above us with no realy effort being put in for that ranking.

All these 'hurt' for us just as much as the jump by ND with this merge has inflicted on the higher level alliance.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 02:44   #37
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Somehow I doubt F-Crew could have destroyed SiN on their own.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 02:53   #38
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neferti
Somehow I doubt F-Crew could have destroyed SiN on their own.
Someone at ND has clearly been selling their members some big stories about SiN actual quality

Rankings before today were
16th F-Crew
17th hirr
18th Rock
19th SiN

We went past them about 5-7 days ago and had pulled out over 10mill lead over them and it was growing daily
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Unread 9 May 2005, 02:56   #39
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Re: Discussion about merging.

isn't it kinda unprofessional to merge midround?
you deserve 72 ticks of unallianceness then.
what if all top 100 planets wanna merge the last tick?
(i didn't read allthe posts..i bet someone posted something similar)
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Unread 9 May 2005, 03:44   #40
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Re: Discussion about merging.

alch, here's a free tip for you:
Shut down your computer. Go out. Meet real people. Have a beer or something with human beings. Realise there's more to life than PA.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 03:48   #41
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Someone at ND has clearly been selling their members some big stories about SiN actual quality
Looked at the F-Crew average score lately, wakey?
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Unread 9 May 2005, 03:53   #42
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Re: Discussion about merging.

lol, u complete and utter idiot, do you know alch? no. do you know his real life situation? no. does he play pa? if u call his account playing pa.

pleaseeeeee get a clue.

alch was merely pointing out his thoughts onto an wait for it..........










alliance discussion board. who would of thought. Heres a tip for you, think before you post
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Unread 9 May 2005, 04:04   #43
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
lol, u complete and utter idiot, do you know alch? no. do you know his real life situation? no. does he play pa? if u call his account playing pa.

pleaseeeeee get a clue.

alch was merely pointing out his thoughts onto an wait for it..........
Me? complete and utter idiot? Takes one to know one..
No, you're absolutely right, I don't know alch, I do not know his real life situation and I'll take a wild guess and say that he play PA

What I do know is that he gives the impression of taking PA way to seriously.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 04:19   #44
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Re: Discussion about merging.

no it doesnt take 1 to know 1, but gr8 comeback.
he plays pa yes that is true. he logs in once every 3 days? yes thats also true.

Id also like to take a wild guess that he has more of a rl than you, considering your hc of the alliance on today's topic, but since when did having a rl become an issue? i dont know i tell thee i just dont know
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Unread 9 May 2005, 05:08   #45
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedlind
Looked at the F-Crew average score lately, wakey?
And your point is? We have always had a low average score, its something thats somewhat unavoidable with the belief system we emply when it comes to playing PA. You cant be an alliance like we are that gives lowbies a chance and invest time in less skilled players rather than kicking them at first sign of weakness and expect a high average score.

If we really wanted to we could drop around 20 members, drop 1mill in score but push our avg upto a mill or even drop 40 members drop 3 mill and stay in our current rank and see our avg move to just under 1.4mill

We are more than capable and able to put up a fight with those atleast around us and no doubt above us even if our avg suggests otherwise and could show it if we wished but we dont. Lowbies need a place to learn and grow and we offer them that and we arent about to suddenly stop after 13 rounds just to give our average a boost
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Unread 9 May 2005, 05:26   #46
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
And your point is? We have always had a low average score, its something thats somewhat unavoidable with the belief system we emply when it comes to playing PA. You cant be an alliance like we are that gives lowbies a chance and invest time in less skilled players rather than kicking them at first sign of weakness and expect a high average score.

If we really wanted to we could drop around 20 members, drop 1mill in score but push our avg upto a mill or even drop 40 members drop 3 mill and stay in our current rank and see our avg move to just under 1.4mill

We are more than capable and able to put up a fight with those atleast around us and no doubt above us even if our avg suggests otherwise and could show it if we wished but we dont. Lowbies need a place to learn and grow and we offer them that and we arent about to suddenly stop after 13 rounds just to give our average a boost

I was just looking through the alliance stats before you posted this and thought to meself, F-crew and Coven have alot of members. Wtf they have such a low score. Then I remembered you guys took in the new players.

Both F-Crew and Coven perform a great service for PA and dont get enough thanks from the universe. So Lemme say than you for all of us
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Unread 9 May 2005, 05:27   #47
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Re: Discussion about merging.

We've spent a round doing that, and our lowbies aren't really that low any more, which means we tightened up a little. That combined with increased competition for skilled new players means we also churn through a lot of chaff. There's less of a point to training people who don't have potencial.

Cedlind, and myself came through the SiN system, and we're both above the average score of all but the top 3 average scores. And I didn't play for the first 2 weeks. Having a low average score and being a training alliance don't always go hand in hand.
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Unread 9 May 2005, 07:54   #48
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
Members were dissapointed to see our start with us langusing in 20th place with APA just above is. While above us they were in a challangeable reange but they were quickly merging with alliances to move them up to the 14th place they hold now. So we were langishing down their and we suddenly lose the alliance above us that we were aiming for. Then a few days later we suddenly find ourselves in 21st. It turns out coven have merged with anyone who would and are now way above us. Again it was another kick in the teeth as our ranking was poor even though the alliance was going great.

So your complaining that other alliances now have the same number of people in their alliance as you now?
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Unread 9 May 2005, 08:03   #49
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumbie
We've spent a round doing that, and our lowbies aren't really that low any more, which means we tightened up a little. That combined with increased competition for skilled new players means we also churn through a lot of chaff. There's less of a point to training people who don't have potencial.

Cedlind, and myself came through the SiN system, and we're both above the average score of all but the top 3 average scores. And I didn't play for the first 2 weeks. Having a low average score and being a training alliance don't always go hand in hand.
Exactly, ive seen many people on our channels, such as Kila who now have a better score than me


Even I, while not a total ***** to PA, came to SiN in and quickly learned the ropes again thanks to the helpful MO's and HC's
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Unread 9 May 2005, 09:13   #50
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Re: Discussion about merging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumbie
We've spent a round doing that, and our lowbies aren't really that low any more, which means we tightened up a little. That combined with increased competition for skilled new players means we also churn through a lot of chaff. There's less of a point to training people who don't have potencial.

Cedlind, and myself came through the SiN system, and we're both above the average score of all but the top 3 average scores. And I didn't play for the first 2 weeks. Having a low average score and being a training alliance don't always go hand in hand.
Yeah ofc you can have a good scoreand start the round off as a training alliance but as soon as you 'tighten' controls you cease to be a training allliance and your point goes out of the window. What are you doing to help newbies who enter the game, what are you doing to help lowbies who got stuck in an alliance who couldnt help them learn. Clearly nothing as your tighter controls exclude such players joining in any great numbers. As it is most of those 20 we could remove and put our avergae to the mill mark are brand new players in the last 7 days. Some of them dont even use IRC yet although we are trying to get them to do and all are pretty raw. A number of them wont make it in the alliance as they wont be willing to help themselves (for example those who dont use irc and dont supply a reason for not doing so) and hence we cant really help people who wont put any effort into helping themselves but all will be giving a chance and the information they need to start trying to improve their own chance
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