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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 10:49   #1
roadrunner_0
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Sony are bastards

The wife has a nice quite expensive sony vaio laptop, a laptop that broke a couple of months ago. All that was broken was the power port, so that the charger wouldnt fit in anymore, so the battery wouldnt charge, so we could no longer turn it on. Now, knowing that laptops arent the easiest things in the world to fix, we decided to send it back to sony themselves, even though it probably wouldnt be the cheapest option, but, y'know its sony, i have always been happy with them before.

not this time

we recieved a phone call from them yesterday saying that the repairs were going to cost £400, which seemed a bit excessive for a little bit of snapped plastic to say the least. When queried about the cost their reply was:

well, the laptop has obviously had a power surge as the charger is burned out and the motherboard is fried, as well as the power port being broken.


hmmmm, says me to myself, it wasn't that broken when we sent it off, fair enough, send us it back and i will get it repaired myself, oh no, it couldnt be that simple, as we don't want them to do any of the repair work, they want to charge us £50 to return our property! needless to say i'm not happy about this and am going to talk to my friend in consumer protection today as i now think that sony's repair division are a bunch of lying shits (ie, how could it have had a power surge when the connection wouldnt connect) but i just thought that i would come on here and have a bit of a whinge, as well as warning people never to trust anything to sony
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 10:55   #2
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Re: Sony are bastards

This is why you should have bought a Toshiba

Sony technical support have always been pretty good with me. Although their costs were astronomically high. When i quereied having my PS2 fixed (it started scratching cds) they basically told me that the cost of fixing it would be almost the equivalent of buying a new one (around 80-100 quid).

Now i checked on the price of parts and you could buy a new laser thing on ebay for no more than 10 quid and the housing etc for a little bit extra. THey had slapped on at least 50-60 quid in other charges for nothing. This pissed me off somewhat seeing as this is their product which is scratching the shit out of the games that i had bought and although the product wasnt 'new' it wasnt horrendously old either.

If you kick up a huge fuss and keep going up in the chain of command im fairly sure you will be able to sort the problem out if you complain about what has happened in a 'calm and collected with all the facts' type way. Sony are usually quite good at this sort of thing
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 11:10   #3
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Re: Sony are bastards

Sony have went straight to hell in the last few years, coinciding with some management changes.
on a course for self-destruction , they are.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 11:16   #4
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Re: Sony are bastards

Working as a part time tech for an import firm, I see this sort of thing every day. The full time staff work often work on a policy of "If it aint broke don't fix it - credit the customer and keep it for "spare parts" (often these go 'missing' about a day later).

JJ the problem you encountered was not so much the cost of the replacement parts, but the cost in wasted time and labour involved. If I find a chip thats fried on a cheap product then I generally bin it and credit the customer (if under warranty), or alternativly tell them it isn't worth fixing and quote some astronomical sum.

The only exceptions to my Credit + Bin policy are where somone complains to the product manager. Making a fuss does work.

RR did they mention anything about a return charge when you sent it in? If not, by holding your property they may well have converted it (theft). It seems awfully silly, but I guess that is how these giant faceless conglomerates work .
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 12:45   #5
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Re: Sony are bastards

You're putting me off from buying a Sony laptop this weekend....


But on topic, my company charges customers £15 + VAT if they want to have their handsets back unrepaired (if the damage was outside the warranty). It says somewhere in some T&Cs paper but hey.

I think a lot of retailers do this sort of thing and I find it ridiculous.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 12:52   #6
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooling
Working as a part time tech for an import firm, I see this sort of thing every day. The full time staff work often work on a policy of "If it aint broke don't fix it - credit the customer and keep it for "spare parts" (often these go 'missing' about a day later).

JJ the problem you encountered was not so much the cost of the replacement parts, but the cost in wasted time and labour involved. If I find a chip thats fried on a cheap product then I generally bin it and credit the customer (if under warranty), or alternativly tell them it isn't worth fixing and quote some astronomical sum.

The only exceptions to my Credit + Bin policy are where somone complains to the product manager. Making a fuss does work.

RR did they mention anything about a return charge when you sent it in? If not, by holding your property they may well have converted it (theft). It seems awfully silly, but I guess that is how these giant faceless conglomerates work .
To expand on the story a little.....


THe problem i was facing is a fairly common one with a certain batch of ps2's. In Sony NA they had given consumers either new playstations or free repairs at their cost to rectify the issue. What pissed me off was that when i went to them with this and asked to speak to the supervisor and began kicking up a fuss they wouldnt budge one bit.

I emailed them links to various sites detailing exactly the same problem and SonyNA's solution but seemingly Sony Europe dont talk to their American counterparts on such issues.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 13:26   #7
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
The wife has a nice quite expensive sony vaio laptop, a laptop that broke a couple of months ago. All that was broken was the power port, so that the charger wouldnt fit in anymore, so the battery wouldnt charge, so we could no longer turn it on. Now, knowing that laptops arent the easiest things in the world to fix, we decided to send it back to sony themselves, even though it probably wouldnt be the cheapest option, but, y'know its sony, i have always been happy with them before.

not this time

we recieved a phone call from them yesterday saying that the repairs were going to cost £400, which seemed a bit excessive for a little bit of snapped plastic to say the least. When queried about the cost their reply was:

well, the laptop has obviously had a power surge as the charger is burned out and the motherboard is fried, as well as the power port being broken.


hmmmm, says me to myself, it wasn't that broken when we sent it off, fair enough, send us it back and i will get it repaired myself, oh no, it couldnt be that simple, as we don't want them to do any of the repair work, they want to charge us £50 to return our property! needless to say i'm not happy about this and am going to talk to my friend in consumer protection today as i now think that sony's repair division are a bunch of lying shits (ie, how could it have had a power surge when the connection wouldnt connect) but i just thought that i would come on here and have a bit of a whinge, as well as warning people never to trust anything to sony
tbh its not surpising they want to charge you £400 as pretty much everything is built into the laptops mobo meaning if something minor like the powerconenctor goes you need to basically buy a new mobo, gfx card, sound card, wiredlan card, wirlesslan card ect ect again. Its one of the annoyances of owning a laptop as its simply not modular and hence not cheap to fix.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 13:45   #8
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
The wife has a nice quite expensive sony vaio laptop, a laptop that broke a couple of months ago. All that was broken was the power port, so that the charger wouldnt fit in anymore, so the battery wouldnt charge, so we could no longer turn it on. Now, knowing that laptops arent the easiest things in the world to fix, we decided to send it back to sony themselves, even though it probably wouldnt be the cheapest option, but, y'know its sony, i have always been happy with them before.

not this time

we recieved a phone call from them yesterday saying that the repairs were going to cost £400, which seemed a bit excessive for a little bit of snapped plastic to say the least. When queried about the cost their reply was:

well, the laptop has obviously had a power surge as the charger is burned out and the motherboard is fried, as well as the power port being broken.


hmmmm, says me to myself, it wasn't that broken when we sent it off, fair enough, send us it back and i will get it repaired myself, oh no, it couldnt be that simple, as we don't want them to do any of the repair work, they want to charge us £50 to return our property! needless to say i'm not happy about this and am going to talk to my friend in consumer protection today as i now think that sony's repair division are a bunch of lying shits (ie, how could it have had a power surge when the connection wouldnt connect) but i just thought that i would come on here and have a bit of a whinge, as well as warning people never to trust anything to sony
I had exactly the same problem with the laptop, power cord wouldnt go in, no way of charging it etc etc. So I sent it off and the put in a new motherboard and other stuff. I have also sent my laptop away to fix the screen because I broke it.
Moral of the story is for laptops you need insurance. If mine breaks again along come UPS, they pick it up and 1 week later return at no cost apart from the original £200.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 15:05   #9
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
tbh its not surpising they want to charge you £400 as pretty much everything is built into the laptops mobo meaning if something minor like the powerconenctor goes you need to basically buy a new mobo, gfx card, sound card, wiredlan card, wirlesslan card ect ect again. Its one of the annoyances of owning a laptop as its simply not modular and hence not cheap to fix.

ah, but i wouldn't dispute that if that was what they had said, instead they are claiming that the laptop has been the victim of a power surge, when i KNOW, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that it hadn't whilst in our possesion


and i wouldnt dispute paying another £12 to get it back (the same that they charged to take it away) but £50 seems a bit steep
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 15:29   #10
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Re: Sony are bastards

Actually the moral of the story is to be me!
I have a £30 laptop and docking station I picked up 6 months ago which has the following spec:
- Toshiba Satellite Pro 4200 series
- 15" 1024x768 screen
- Celeron 500Mhz (with power management, so underclocks to 200Mhz when not in use)
- 128MB RAM (can upgrade if I can be bothered)
- 6GB harddrive (can upgrade if I can be bothered)
- Dedicated S3 Savage II video with TV out and external monitor out
- Onboard Yamaha soundcard
- Integrated floppy drive
- Integrated CD drive
- IRDA
- 1 USB port (6 with docking station)
- 2 cardbus/pcmcia slots (6 with docking station)
- All the usual (serial, printer, PS2 etc)
- 2 chargers and 2 batteries

Ok, it's not that much, but for that £30 I can:
- Play DivX/XviD (yes it is actually fast enough believe it or not)
- Use WinXP and Office 2003 absolutely fine
- Play a few games (GTA 1 and 2, Worms World Party etc)

Really I don't see what else people need from a laptop.
The battery lasts 4 hours or so when word processing, about 2 and a half when watching a film. I have a wireless PCMCIA card to connect to the internet when I'm around uni with it (we have very handy free wifi access) and a standard PCMCIA ethernet card to connect it to my PC in my room. If I take it on the train for entertainment it's fine.
Most of all, I don't care if I scratch it or mark the screen, as it only cost £30. I've even taken it apart (motherboard out etc) a few times to see if I can make any improvements - so far I've found I can swap the CD drive for a DVD drive if I can find the right one on ebay.
6GB is enough to dual boot XP and linux, and I can use my MP3 player as an external harddrive (20GB iRiver).

I have my desktop for playing games, so this does me just fine tbh.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 15:42   #11
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
When i quereied having my PS2 fixed (it started scratching cds) they basically told me that the cost of fixing it would be almost the equivalent of buying a new one (around 80-100 quid).
Wasn't/isn't that a common issue with PS2's? At least from what I read in the newspaper once they would repair that for free in Norway because it was a common flaw. Sounds weird to me that you actually had to pay for having their problem fixed.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 15:59   #12
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Exclamation Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
ah, but i wouldn't dispute that if that was what they had said, instead they are claiming that the laptop has been the victim of a power surge, when i KNOW, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that it hadn't whilst in our possesion
Could the broken power port have caused a surge...?
Quote:
and i wouldnt dispute paying another £12 to get it back (the same that they charged to take it away) but £50 seems a bit steep
I suspect the £12 just covers shipping and insurance.

I've never used Sony, but most computer repair places I'm familiar with will charge a fee just to look at your computer. Most will apply the fee to the cost of repairs. £50 does seem high but, as already noted, laptops are expensive to repair.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 16:11   #13
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Actually the moral of the story is to be me!
I have a £30 laptop and docking station I picked up 6 months ago which has the following spec:
Where do you get this kind of deal?

Might be time to upgrade from my pII whatever..
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 16:12   #14
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
Could the broken power port have caused a surge...?
The problem seems to have been that the power cable stopped working, so the battery just ran down - a powers surge would have been impossible in those circumstances.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 19:09   #15
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
The problem seems to have been that the power cable stopped working, so the battery just ran down - a powers surge would have been impossible in those circumstances.


what he said

plus, as noted before, if at any point £50 had been mentioned, i wouldn't now be getting trading standards to have a look at this for me
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 20:03   #16
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tactitus
£50 does seem high but, as already noted, laptops are expensive to repair.
if i read that correctly, 50 was what it would cost for them to not repair it and just send it back.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 20:36   #17
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolis
if i read that correctly, 50 was what it would cost for them to not repair it and just send it back.
That's what I read too.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 20:43   #18
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Re: Sony are bastards

I'm presuming by courier it would cost what... £15 with insurance on it? £35 in very extreme cases.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 21:09   #19
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Sony have went straight to hell in the last few years, coinciding with some management changes.
on a course for self-destruction , they are.
Playstation > xbox.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 21:21   #20
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Re: Sony are bastards

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Originally Posted by s|k
Playstation > xbox.
Oh god not this again.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 21:54   #21
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Oh god not this again.
Well considering that I've never played either of the next gen consoles, and have really read very little about it and am not really very well informed at all, feel free to discount anything I say as complete nonesenese.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 22:29   #22
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Exclamation Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolis
if i read that correctly, 50 was what it would cost for them to not repair it and just send it back.
Yes, that's how I read it too; but I assumed that included their charge for looking at it.

Of course, if they weren't up front about such a charge then their bad.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 23:11   #23
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Well considering that I've never played either of the next gen consoles, and have really read very little about it and am not really very well informed at all, feel free to discount anything I say as complete nonesenese.
The playstation 3 has not been released, the xbox 360 has barely been released, and it's subjective anyway.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 23:33   #24
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Re: Sony are bastards

I worked for the call centre that handles those Sony calls.
I working on the Sony account itself briefly. It's entirely possible you talked to someone I know.

Anyway, the point is never EVER EVER buy a Sony laptop or handheld. They screw the living daylights out of everyone. Warranty isn't worth shit. The repair centre is a joke. The costs are rediculously large...up to €700 for a motherboard. Alone.
The batteries die easliy and are not covered by warranty. Things that go wrong such as lip sync going out when recording with a computer home theatre system are "expected" and "a feature".

As you've found out they charge you to send stuff back to you. Stupidly easy stuff to repair is always more complex once it gets to the depot in europe.

The call centre staff don't work directly for Sony, they just apply Sony polices, but are driven harshly by the management, there are 70 people in the centre to look after ALL of europe, africa and the middle east.
The place is non-union and the turnover is rediculous.

So....

Dont buy a ****ing Sony.

Oh and there's no way around having to pay, they'll just keep your laptop otherwise.
Unless your Daniel Bedingfield, he rand up and told em who he was and got a free repair and shipping. Wanker.
I don't think he's even signed to Sony.
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Unread 2 Dec 2005, 23:55   #25
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Re: Sony are bastards

Laptops are just shit in general. Use a note pad.
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 04:55   #26
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Re: Sony are bastards

I like daniel bedingfield

Quote:
Originally Posted by danny b
I gotta get thru this...dum di dum...I gotta get thru this
man im dreunk.
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 05:02   #27
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
<snip>
Im beginning to worry now. Sent my laptop (acer) off for repair with a lcd screen problem. it SHOULD be covered in the warranty but i cant afford it if they charge me anything for it, plus ive not got insurance for it yet
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 10:48   #28
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
Im beginning to worry now. Sent my laptop (acer) off for repair with a lcd screen problem. it SHOULD be covered in the warranty but i cant afford it if they charge me anything for it, plus ive not got insurance for it yet
Acer is Sony, breaking news!
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 11:06   #29
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Oh and there's no way around having to pay, they'll just keep your laptop otherwise.

oh there is, having friends in trading standards is fun worst comes to worst i will hire a courier to collect it for me, which will probably cost nearly as much, but at least the money wont be going to sony
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 11:35   #30
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Acer is Sony, breaking news!
thats not quite what i was meaning, what i was trying to imply, is that "what if acer are like sony in that regard"
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 12:17   #31
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
oh there is, having friends in trading standards is fun worst comes to worst i will hire a courier to collect it for me, which will probably cost nearly as much, but at least the money wont be going to sony
Mmm well you'll have to complain so unbelievably bitterly to get anywhere past floor monkeys and their evil overlords to somone who can actually affect the outcome. Good luck at any rate.
And isn't Trading Standards just for the UK? Sony Europe are based in Belgium, god only knows where they are sending the laptops for repair these days, might not be as clear cut as you think. Will probably cost £50 to get it back on your own too...but take heart in not giving that shower of bastards any more money.
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 12:18   #32
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Re: Sony are bastards

trading standards deal with anything bought in the UK, as sony trade in the UK they are bound by applicable laws etc so its all good.


and im good at complaining
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 12:20   #33
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
thats not quite what i was meaning, what i was trying to imply, is that "what if acer are like sony in that regard"
Well I've had no experience with Acer so god only knows what they are like. I doubt they'll be as bad as Sony, after all computers are their business. It would pay them not to piss off customers. Sony on the other hand, they have brand name recognition, and a billion other products to keep them afloat. They don't mind screwing anyone over.

So, from this and my previous advice two things should be clear. One, don't buy a Dell computer and two, don't buy a Sony laptop.

For my next trick I'll be working in a Nike factory....
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 12:24   #34
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
trading standards deal with anything bought in the UK, as sony trade in the UK they are bound by applicable laws
Well mention that at least. Though keep in mind some specific legislation that would help your cause if they rebuff you.

Quote:
so its all good.
Words cannot express how much vitriolic hatred I have for that phrase.

Quote:
and im good at complaining
Complaining is what they hear most, they can tune it out. Remember to be assertive and not whiney.
Oh and if you offer to 'come round and punch your boss out' they might take you up on it.
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 12:50   #35
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Re: Sony are bastards

lol, will have to remember that one.

nah, i'm good at complaining in a 'i will hound you unto the very ends of the earth - or at least until you lose your job if you **** me over' kind of way
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 12:58   #36
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Re: Sony are bastards

I sent my laptop back a couple of months ago because my HD stopped working. They gave me a new HD, replaced my fan and gave me a new battery.

For free Acer customer service is great!
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 13:10   #37
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by paolo
I sent my laptop back a couple of months ago because my HD stopped working. They gave me a new HD, replaced my fan and gave me a new battery.

For free Acer customer service is great!

thats made me feel a whole lot better, thx
though - are you sure they just didnt replace the whole laptop while they were at it?
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 20:50   #38
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^

thats made me feel a whole lot better, thx
though - are you sure they just didnt replace the whole laptop while they were at it?
Yeah i'm sure, the scratches and dents were still there
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 02:03   #39
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Re: Sony are bastards

i second the query regarding where to find the £30 laptops.
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 08:43   #40
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_
i second the query regarding where to find the £30 laptops.

Look for a guy in a tracksuit, baseball cap, lit fag in one hand, shiftly moving about outside a shopping centre.
I'm sure he'll oblige.
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 14:24   #41
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_
i second the query regarding where to find the £30 laptops.
I believe he got it from his work (or similar), so it's about the same as claiming you got a laptop for free because someone gave it to you for Christmas.
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 16:38   #42
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Re: Sony are bastards

It was sold in an auction at work.
You can pick up exactly the same laptop on ebay for around ~£60-80, which is quite a bit more but is still considerably cheaper than anything new and does the job just fine.

Search for Toshiba Satellite Pro 4200 (any laptop in the series) or Satellite Pro 4270 for mine in particular.
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Unread 11 Dec 2005, 21:17   #43
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Re: Sony are bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
To expand on the story a little.....


THe problem i was facing is a fairly common one with a certain batch of ps2's. In Sony NA they had given consumers either new playstations or free repairs at their cost to rectify the issue. What pissed me off was that when i went to them with this and asked to speak to the supervisor and began kicking up a fuss they wouldnt budge one bit.

I emailed them links to various sites detailing exactly the same problem and SonyNA's solution but seemingly Sony Europe dont talk to their American counterparts on such issues.

PS2's are utter crap. I feel sorry for every poor sod I have to talk too regarding problems for it. As soon as you're out your warranty, you're living on borrowed time. PS2's are VERY good to reach 2 years and anything past that is a miracle.

The laser is by far the most common problem for PS2's - 1 out of 10 issues is to do with reading discs. It so happens to be the repair that Sony charges the most for. They charge you to even establish there is a problem and if you can't meet the cost of the repairs then you're screwed.

Out of all the console's, the PS2 is by far the worst for problems - and Sony has the worst customer service. It's pretty bad really when Sony are the market leader and really makes you wonder how many of the 80 million PS2's sold since launch are ones people have bought for the second or third time around. Don't forget that MANY MANY people bought Slim line PS2's due to their old one being on the way out and to be that's just bad.

Rue the day when retailers like GAME will stop honouring the warrantry and swapping it for a brand new console and forcing you to go through the respective companies - it's already started. PSP's, Nintendo DS' and Xbox 360's HAVE to go through Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft due to stock issues.

When your PS2 stops reading blue discs, it's a sign of the decaying state for the laser, that's when its going to be cheaper buying a new one - so I suppose at least that's a sign that you've got to save up for a new console.
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Unread 11 Dec 2005, 21:24   #44
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Re: Sony are bastards

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Originally Posted by Zh|l
When your PS2 stops reading blue discs, it's a sign of the decaying state for the laser, that's when its going to be cheaper buying a new one - so I suppose at least that's a sign that you've got to save up for a new console.
Erm, last time I checked Sony repair PS2's within warranty for free, and if the PS2 is out of warranty (or you can't prove it is in warranty), they will replace it with a repaired console for a flat fee (possibly 40 pounds?). So no real need to save up for a brand new one.

More on topic, the Sony laptop people are really a joke. They wanted to charge my department 400 pounds to repair a 2 year old laptop and refused to even consider giving us a discount, even though we were Sony as well
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Unread 15 Dec 2005, 00:48   #45
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Re: Sony are bastards

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Originally Posted by SbOlly
Erm, last time I checked Sony repair PS2's within warranty for free, and if the PS2 is out of warranty (or you can't prove it is in warranty), they will replace it with a repaired console for a flat fee (possibly 40 pounds?). So no real need to save up for a brand new one.

More on topic, the Sony laptop people are really a joke. They wanted to charge my department 400 pounds to repair a 2 year old laptop and refused to even consider giving us a discount, even though we were Sony as well
Out of warranty and no proof it is in warranty is near enough the cost in the UK for a new PS2. Its around £90 or so and considering a brand new one will cost you £100 - its mostly worthwhile just to buy a brand new one.

My comment doesnt stand for in warranty items - the customer service is more linked to what the manufacturers do for after warranty which is where both Nintendo and Microsoft (suprisingly) triumph.
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