Planetarion Forums

xtothez · 11 Jul 2003, 12:18

Despite them not being closed due to the evidence not being presented quickly enough, what is your stance on the exposed cheating of some of your top ranking members - NaQ (LDK) and F2F (Seraphim)?
While PA crew can't close them on circumstantial evidence for fear of setting a dangerous precedent, do you still consider them cheaters despite the fact they werent caught? Are you prepared to kick said members based on my logs, or do you believe I have fabricated this material?

I'm sure the community will be keen to see your respective positions on cheaters who are exposed but not officially punished.

Seraphim and LDK HC can feel free to contact me for copies of the logs in question

hAl · 11 Jul 2003, 12:21

LDK has not been renowned for acting upon evidence of cheating

Dave · 11 Jul 2003, 12:33

Quote:

Originally posted by hAl
LDK has not been renowned for acting upon evidence of cheating

<Sarcasm>
Of course they have, signup more accounts incase some are closed.
</Sarcasm>

Sjor · 11 Jul 2003, 12:37

im seraphim too
so include me in that thread as u included me in ur logs

hAl · 11 Jul 2003, 12:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Sjor
im seraphim too
so include me in that thread as u included me in ur logs

I think he asumes that seraphim will kick members closed for cheating for certain !!!

hAl

xtothez · 11 Jul 2003, 12:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Sjor
im seraphim too
so include me in that thread as u included me in ur logs

You'd already posted your PA retirement thread before I turned over any logs.

edit: I also recieved your actual login after I had submitted the rest. Your were never reported.

Sjor · 11 Jul 2003, 12:54

im still open

lrytas · 11 Jul 2003, 13:19

Well from those logs that xtothez showed me i dont even know what to do, cry or smile

. Conversation logs seems not to be full, so its impossible to see have naq loged in into other planet or not. But if he is still opened, then i believe he played fair ?
________
Toyota g1 history

das_experiment · 11 Jul 2003, 13:26

well X, im sure we will if you show em to my HC

atleast we should

xtothez · 11 Jul 2003, 13:29

Quote:

Originally posted by lrytas
Well from those logs that xtothez showed me i dont even know what to do, cry or smile . Conversation logs seems not to be full, so its impossible to see have naq loged in into other planet or not. But if he is still opened, then i believe he played fair ?

The multihunter I talked to on this case said that IP logs dont go back far enough to verify the log, although the scan planet in question was closed (as its l/p obviously worked).
There are also several other logs showing that NaQ benefitted form getting others to cheat for him (such as asking meddy to send draki's fleet as escort). While this is clearly not a closeable offence on NaQ's part it does prove his planet was aided by less than honest means, and personally I think it reflects badly on any alliance supporting him.

izverg · 11 Jul 2003, 13:35

Quote:

Originally posted by lrytas
Well from those logs that xtothez showed me i dont even know what to do, cry or smile . Conversation logs seems not to be full, so its impossible to see have naq loged in into other planet or not. But if he is still opened, then i believe he played fair ?

hehe, yeah, i've read them now too..hehe..
it gives me just a smile nothing else. Especially proofs like:
[15:08:40] <Lrytas> [14:25:27] <XtoTheZ> naq has mainly benefitted from getting others to cheat for him
Impossible to say from the log provided (private Naq's conversation) something constructive, as it seems simply not full and trancated, at least not only for me. Impossible to say from it did he loged in finally into other players account or not. So I assume PA crew has more powers to check have been Naq involved into such action or not, by checking their game logs.

Fleet_Multiplex · 11 Jul 2003, 13:45

I and millions of others around the world are in favour of the term innocent until proven guilty.

Scouse · 11 Jul 2003, 13:56

xtothez, trying to milk this perhaps?

Maddix · 11 Jul 2003, 14:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Fleet_Multiplex
I and millions of others around the world are in favour of the term innocent until proven guilty.

A diplomatic, if conveinient, response from HC of one of the 'offending' alliances.

In my opinion if the case is obvious enough and PA Team are just lacking proof, I mean we all know their tools are actually quite lacking, then alliances should take it upon themselves to punish cheats within their ranks.

xtothez · 11 Jul 2003, 14:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse
xtothez, trying to milk this perhaps?

Milking it would be a personalised "multi-hunter" gal banner. This is just a political stab against alliances that defend known cheaters.

Would this post lose any meaning if made by someone else?

Hicks · 11 Jul 2003, 14:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Sjor
im seraphim too
so include me in that thread as u included me in ur logs

Your hardly important enough to be included. Plus the fact you've already quit makes it rather pointless.

-QS- · 11 Jul 2003, 14:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Hicks
Your hardly important enough to be included. Plus the fact you've already quit makes it rather pointless.

ROFLMAO

izverg · 11 Jul 2003, 14:40

Quote:

Originally posted by xtothez
This is just a political stab against alliances that defend known cheaters.

stab? lol
its more like a try to look important person nothing else.
its not hard to open your mouth and scream loud enough caling somebody a cheater without having any evidences on hands, just to try to be heard. its pretty lame. If u think he is cheater - ok, thats your own opinion, but basing just on your opinion nobody will kick any player. actually it makes more a jerk from you, and that u gonna fool some brainless n00bs , u know doesnt hurts us, we long ago learned to ignore such widemouth boys".

Eventh · 11 Jul 2003, 14:47

Quote:

Originally posted by izverg
stab? lol
its more like a try to look important person nothing else.
its not hard to open your mouth and scream loud enough caling somebody a cheater without having any evidences on hands, just to try to be heard. its pretty lame. If u think he is cheater - ok, thats your own opinion, but basing just on your opinion nobody will kick any player. actually it makes more a jerk from you, and that u gonna fool some brainless n00bs , u know doesnt hurts us, we long ago learned to ignore such widemouth boys".

i think he got evidence of them cheating, or getting others to cheat for them.. but the evidence wasnt good enough to close the planets.. if you have read throu the thread u would have know it too..

WhiteSnake · 11 Jul 2003, 14:47

Quote:

Originally posted by xtothez

While PA crew can't close them on circumstantial evidence for fear of setting a dangerous precedent, do you still consider them cheaters despite the fact they werent caught? Are you prepared to kick said members based on my logs, or do you believe I have fabricated this material?

I'm sure the community will be keen to see your respective positions on cheaters who are exposed but not officially punished.

PA crew got the right tools (or is supposed to) for getting cheaters. You know and everyone knows that we can't simply base on a log to take any drastic decision. If its 100% sure that Frankie cheats, then we will make the correct move about it (which we already did this round when a member confessed he was multing).

It may look like stupidity, but there's a thing called 'benefit of the doubt', and when we recruit a member to an alliance, we give him this benefit, as our community is based on trust. If F2F comes to us and say that he didn't cheated, then for us, until its proven he is lieing, and if its proven he is lieing, we will believe him.

I'm not accusing you to fake logs or anything. Its just your word against his word.

In time: even if the logs are true, and I am not saying they are or they aren't, it has to be proven the member LOGGED into those planets. Around the world, law doesn't punishes intention, just action. You can think of comit a crime, you can even plan it. You just can't make it.

izverg · 11 Jul 2003, 14:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Eventh
i think he got evidence of them cheating, or getting others to cheat for them.. but the evidence wasnt good enough to close the planets.. if you have read throu the thread u would have know it too..

liddle boy, if u have read enough the thread, u would seen that i've read his so called "evidences". so maybe next time get a clue before crawling fast out in need to write something "important" ?

LordNieminen · 11 Jul 2003, 23:32

my galaxy reported f2f in the first 2 weeks already as cheater.. i gues there has been more of these reports too before/after it, or where did those escorts for him come from earlier this round(not sure are they all closed yet) or those wierd defs for he's galaxy what he said, i'll send.. and they come from universe etc..

Anyways if u cheat enough well u can't get caught.. sad but true therefore pretty many pa players acc share as we all know.

11 Jul 2003, 23:39

Can i answer for the alliances?

Seraphim: Maybe.
LDK: **** OFF NOWAY THEY BE INNOCENT MAN THIS IS HUGE PLOT AGAINST US.

Zeus · 12 Jul 2003, 00:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreadnought
Can i answer for the alliances?

Seraphim: Maybe.
LDK: **** OFF NOWAY THEY BE INNOCENT MAN THIS IS HUGE PLOT AGAINST US.

Pure Genius

Toop · 12 Jul 2003, 07:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreadnought
Can i answer for the alliances?

Seraphim: Maybe.
LDK: **** OFF NOWAY THEY BE INNOCENT MAN THIS IS HUGE PLOT AGAINST US.

aye

rshih · 12 Jul 2003, 07:46

bah....... the sad thing is seraphim could be looking even worse right now seeing as how naq started the round in seraphim and then left us around mid-round for nd, and then joined LDK like less then a day later.

Aaranaf · 12 Jul 2003, 21:23

Quote:

Originally posted by rshih
bah....... the sad thing is seraphim could be looking even worse right now seeing as how naq started the round in seraphim and then left us around mid-round for nd, and then joined LDK like less then a day later.

wasnt he LDK the whole time? he was multi alliancing for other sources of defence.

he was kicked from seraphim cos he was caught doin it too, didnt leave

rshih · 12 Jul 2003, 23:03

Ya... didn't think he was double alliancing while in LDK tho, but he was in ND while he was in Seraphim. And then when HC found out they kicked him out.

"Left us" is a nice term for kicked =p

Wrath of Azure · 13 Jul 2003, 02:46

this is all very interesting

naq had no choice but to double alliance or lose his top 10 spot (im not condoning cheating btw), with the way the round went, seraphim couldnt defend him alone.

Back on topic tho, while I was HC i kicked a member for multiing and all the HC supported me.

I have since stepped down however, but we didnt tolerate cheating whilst I was active. (I'm an inactive bum now)

Storebo · 13 Jul 2003, 03:14

Is LDK... the word means cheating.. I'd belive anyone telling me they cheat. Because it's 99% chance it is true.

Storebo · 13 Jul 2003, 03:17

Quote:

Originally posted by lrytas
Well from those logs that xtothez showed me i dont even know what to do, cry or smile . Conversation logs seems not to be full, so its impossible to see have naq loged in into other planet or not. But if he is still opened, then i believe he played fair ?

Just admitt u don't want to act on it because u are friends with em.. atleast that can be respected =)

Storebo · 13 Jul 2003, 03:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Fleet_Multiplex
I and millions of others around the world are in favour of the term innocent until proven guilty.

That sucks... I'm for standing em up against the wall.. pumping em full of lead..
If it proves their not guilty.. we won't charge the family for the bullet.

Wishmaster · 13 Jul 2003, 04:38

guilty untill proven innocent..

Kinda like that:-)

(said whil I weas drunk:-) )

NaQ · 13 Jul 2003, 04:40

i can tell you i havent logged into another planet \o/

Banned · 13 Jul 2003, 07:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Storebo
Is LDK... the word means cheating.. I'd belive anyone telling me they cheat. Because it's 99% chance it is true.

Lrytas cheats*.

*I have no idea if this true whatsoever, but since he's LDK there's a 99% chance of it being true. In conclusion, Storebo is a raging moron.

rshih · 13 Jul 2003, 17:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Wrath of Azure
(I'm an inactive bum now) [/b]

Ya you are lleggs =p.

Klendau II · 14 Jul 2003, 00:44

Quote:

Originally posted by xtothez
While this is clearly not a closeable offence on NaQ's part it does prove his planet was aided by less than honest means, and personally I think it reflects badly on any alliance supporting him.

Escorting is a very valid military tactic.

If you consider aiding your allies in order for them to grow substancially enough to acquire a top10 position is deemed "less than honest", then you have a much different perspective to that of most of the community.

Shev · 14 Jul 2003, 02:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Klendau II
Escorting is a very valid military tactic.

If you consider aiding your allies in order for them to grow substancially enough to acquire a top10 position is deemed "less than honest", then you have a much different perspective to that of most of the community.

If you read his post again, you will notice it says that he asked for someone to launch yet another players fleet as an escort - therefore asking someone to account share for his benefit.

As xtothez says, this isn't actually a directly closeable offence, however if you consider it not to be "less than honest" when he asks someone to help him by directly breaking the rules I worry about your perception, I really do.

Spearhead · 14 Jul 2003, 09:02

NR1 closed also

my my he must be pissed off

was my pleasure reporting you :-) you should have stayed away from me :-) now you closed aaah better then the promised
retal :-)

Gerbie · 14 Jul 2003, 09:06

/me wonders who will be called the winner if at the end a closed planet is #1.

Spearhead · 14 Jul 2003, 09:18

he wont stay nr1, as he wont be able to spend his resources in the end, and the nr2 - 3 etc will be able too, thisround has been quite a joke, all planets who attacked me with dubious escorts got closed....all of em

i reported about 6 top players all of which got closed within days...heh to be quite honest, i only lost roids to cheaters this round :| wont be playing R10...

Gerbie · 14 Jul 2003, 09:28

He can't be attacked. The highest ranked player that isn't closed will most definately be attacked once or twice the comming days. I'm not sure being unable to spend your resources will be bad as long as you can still continue to grow. In previous rounds top players didn't hit vacation mode for nothing in a universe like the one we are now. It's better to lose from a closed cheater then from a cheater that got away with it.

AndroX · 14 Jul 2003, 09:42

I honestly dont see the point in having this conversation at this stage of the round. It was already pretty clear who was cheating at the start of this round. Now because people got bashed over and over again they start to complain. Do yourself and the community a favor for the following free rounds; report those things in the first few weeks of the round and not in the last. That would keep the game nice and fair. Complaining afterwards wont do any good except getting more angry by the fact that nothing can be done about it because its to late for that.
We all know (the community) that especially LDK cheated, tho also a few of them tried to play fair. (which is hard when another alliance member with 15 accounts sends defence to ya). And Im sure LDK has some good players that dont need to cheat to gain a nice possition in the rankings. Like every other alliance does.

But I must admit, those anti LDK banners where the best thing of this round (LDC .. lifeform designed to cheat). So I can say that at least I had some fun this round.... tho it was more due to those banners then the game itself.

Time for round 10, and hopefully PA creators/hunters gonne do a little more afford to get those cheators in the 2 'training' weeks from that round. And when the real round 10 start and we all have payed .. well Im sure there are some legal ways to either make sure they grab all/most the cheators or give some money back garantee.

Wandows · 14 Jul 2003, 10:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Gerbie
/me wonders who will be called the winner if at the end a closed planet is #1.

i believe i read something somewhere in a creators log a while back about all closed planets being deleted 1 or 2 ticks to the end of a round r not taken in the top ranking or something, don;t know that for sure though

Gerbie · 14 Jul 2003, 10:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Wandows
i believe i read something somewhere in a creators log a while back about all closed planets being deleted 1 or 2 ticks to the end of a round r not taken in the top ranking or something, don;t know that for sure though

Too bad :P

Well in that case it would be nice if the Havoc handout would be exactly (or twice) the amount of resources (including the amounts invested in ships/amps etc.) and roids taken from people that were caught cheating, then divided over those that did not cheat/were not caught. It would be a miserably low handout, but I'm convinced it will be very satisfactory to those that played (relatively) honest. It might give people a feeling of justice being done.

Lanceman · 14 Jul 2003, 10:56

Quote:

Originally posted by AndroX
[...] Do yourself and the community a favor for the following free rounds; report those things in the first few weeks of the round and not in the last. That would keep the game nice and fair. Complaining afterwards wont do any good except getting more angry by the fact that nothing can be done about it because its to late for that.

How can you at the start of a round know who wil lcheat and who not? You might be able to have suspicions.
And in most cases you have at first to discover where the suspected cheater is, until then you can't report him.

Quote:

We all know (the community) that especially LDK cheated, tho also a few of them tried to play fair. (which is hard when another alliance member with 15 accounts sends defence to ya). And Im sure LDK has some good players that dont need to cheat to gain a nice possition in the rankings. Like every other alliance does.

We all know that some BGs are worse than some alliances in the past..to say it in your words. Though few of them try to not cheat, but the restriction to get into those BGs is to leave your conscience behind and put FRIENDS > * (so in fact you are not allowed to say something against cheats as it could hurt your FRIENDS).
LDK isn't like other alliances as they are far more dedicated than most others, so don't try to compare them, because that leads to the cheat & bot suspicions.

Quote:

But I must admit, those anti LDK banners where the best thing of this round (LDC .. lifeform designed to cheat). [...]

And why exactly? Another example of: in one round celebrate them, in the other hate them. Why is LDK now the bad guy again? I thought we'd left that behind since R8.
They may have made a mistake by allowing "suspicious persons" into their ranks.

Quote:

[...]well Im sure there are some legal ways to either make sure they grab all/most the cheators or give some money back garantee.

I cannot see how this could/should be done, as you can't tell at the start of the round how many cheaters there are (despite the fact that new players join through the round).
The most important thing about this is: not all cheaters can be discovered and so they can't say "I caught all/most cheaters" and so there is no way for you as a customer to say that they didn't catch all.

Jormalai · 15 Jul 2003, 16:04

I really dont get this i have been playing since round 3. And u guys talk about cheating talk about some1 should do something about it.

But the matter off fact is that every round i have been in i have seen some kind off cheating. Account sharing or scan planets u name it. But thing is this is happening in every level off the game and in every alliance.

Sure u can plame ldk as much u like but first have good look to yourself and to your friends. Cheating and mostly account sharing is wery much part off this game like it or not