Blix VS Powell

Place your bets now?

According to Blix Powell can't possibly have any *hard* evidence to back up the theory that Iraq possesses mass destruction weapons. Blix says that the only thing Powell could have would be satellite photo's, tapped communications about Iraqi's buying weapons or unsubstantial rumours.

According to Powell...well he's supposed to present evidence later today...


How politics turn into a soap-opera, only in America.

[Bunga]

But... thats the only evidence they can have though. I mean, the only "hard" evidence possible is an actual NBC weapon, and the inspectors haven't found any...

They're having a celebrity deathmatch between those two?

[G_frog]

I predict blix will win in the Guardian and Powell will win in the Telegraph and the real world. As usual.

...

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows

Originally posted by Spüg
They're having a celebrity deathmatch between those two?

I'd LOVE to see that one

[Nodrog]

The fact Blix hasnt found any weapons is proof that they exist, because America knew Iraq had them in the first place and Blix has found no evidence that they have been destroyed.

[Spearhead]

Originally posted by G_frog
I predict blix will win in the Guardian and Powell will win in the Telegraph and the real world. As usual.

...

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows

GO GO! Mr. Leonard Cohen

[Dibdevlin]

So far two messages between Iraqi Generals and Iraq soilders about hiding vehicles and other ammos.

Score?

Colin 2

Iraq 0

[Nusselt]

ffs i cant get a feed on whats going on.

Somone keep me informed on whats going on.

[Dibdevlin]

Powell started off with two tapes conversations between Iraq Generals and soilders showing that they are hiding vehicles and ammunition.

Then when on to use what he called Human intelligence to describe movments of WMD around Iraq.

Now he is showing Satallite photos of what the US described as different chemical weapon factories in Iraq. Showing them before the inspectors returned to Iraq and how they looked afterwards.

All of them had been "cleaned up" before the Inspectors. Equiptment and vehicles removed. None of the equiptment that had been removed has yet to be shown to the inspectors.

Basically they are laying out the case that Iraq is doing their best to hide as much as possible from the inspectors.


[Sorry watching it on TV now, typing while I am listening.]

[Nusselt]

any idea what kind of vehicles and ammunition?

[Dibdevlin]

The Vehicle was a modifies vehicle. Something that had been produced that when the General heard that the soilder still have the vehicle when the inspectors were going to show up was very pissed. They weren't supposed to have the vehicle and the general made sure to get it out of there.

So no idea what it was except that the General wanted to make sure that they UN didn't find it.

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Dibdevlin
So far two messages between Iraqi Generals and Iraq soilders about hiding vehicles and other ammos.

Score?

Colin 2

Iraq 0

So its went from nuclear weapons, to chemical weapons, to 'empty warheads', down to "vehicles and ammo"?

[Dibdevlin]

Originally posted by Nodrog
So its went from nuclear weapons, to chemical weapons, to 'empty warheads', down to "vehicles and ammo"?

Most likely the vehicle is a mobile chemical weapons factory.

[Event_Horizon]

Originally posted by Dibdevlin
Most likely the vehicle is a mobile chemical weapons factory.

I like your sarcasm. If there was nothing "wrong" with the vehicle than why would they try to hide it?

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Dibdevlin
Most likely the vehicle has a trunk full of nuclear bombs and is fitted with retractable wings that they were going to use to fly it into the pentagon

fxd 4 u

[Dibdevlin]

Originally posted by Event_Horizon
I like your sarcasm. If there was nothing "wrong" with the vehicle than why would they try to hide it?

I'm not being sarcastic at all.. Colin just went on to talk about Rail Cars and vehicles that are used to make dry Anthrax.

[Dibdevlin]

Originally posted by Nodrog


I like to stick my head in the sand and think the US is wrong about everything.

Excuse me while I act like a total jerk and add nothing to this thread.

Oh you again.

[Event_Horizon]

Originally posted by Dibdevlin
I'm not being sarcastic at all.. Colin just went on to talk about Rail Cars and vehicles that are used to make dry Anthrax.

my apologies.

Originally posted by Nodrog
lol made u look

Still mistah popular huh Noddy? lol

[Sub]

The 'evidence' seems as flimsy as I expected :/
An audio tape of two people talking. Bear in mind it could be any two people in the ENTIRE world on that tape. Not much proof really:/

[Nodrog]

Originally posted by Sub
The 'evidence' seems as flimsy as I expected :/
An audio tape of two people talking. Bear in mind it could be any two people in the ENTIRE world on that tape. Not much proof really:/

What would you class as "sufficient proof"?

[Dibdevlin]

Originally posted by Sub
The 'evidence' seems as flimsy as I expected :/
An audio tape of two people talking. Bear in mind it could be any two people in the ENTIRE world on that tape. Not much proof really:/

Next tape "Remove all references of Nerve Agent from all communcations."

Yeah I guess you can say "Oh the US just made that up. They just created it."

The pictures are all made up..

Some people don't belive that fire is hot till they burn themsevles with it.

[Mong]

I accuse the US* of having Nuclear, Checmical and Biological weapons!

It must allow the UN to search it now!

Mr Bush, the US President claims his is a peace loving nation, victim of persecution by religious fanatics!

But I think that's just a ploy and he really plans to bomb people the first chance he gets!

I bet they have WMD hidden all over the world!

M.

* United States Of That Bit Of N.America Between Mexico and Canada.

[Sub]

Originally posted by Nodrog
What would you class as "sufficient proof"?

A nuke hitting the White House!

Originally posted by Dibdevlin
Next tape "Remove all references of Nerve Agent from all communcations."

Yeah I guess you can say "Oh the US just made that up. They just created it."

The pictures are all made up..

Some people don't belive that fire is hot till they burn themsevles with it.

What's better:

Blindly accepting everything your government tells you
or
Questioning everything they tell you

[Sub]

Originally posted by Mong
I accuse the US* of having Nuclear, Checmical and Biological weapons!

It must allow the UN to search it now!

Mr Bush, the US President claims his is a peace loving nation, victim of persecution by religious fanatics!

But I think that's just a ploy and he really plans to bomb people the first chance he gets!

I bet they have WMD hidden all over the world!

M.

* United States Of That Bit Of N.America Between Mexico and Canada.

Definition:
A·mer·i·ca
The United States.

[Dibdevlin]

Originally posted by Sub
A nuke hitting the White House!



What's better:

Blindly accepting everything your government tells you
or
Questioning everything they tell you

Could we play poker some day?

[Bunga]

Since you seem to believe whatever people tell you with little evidence...

"Oh no I don't have a full house... raise your bet why don't you?"

[ParraCida]

There should be no action against Iraq untill there is 'hard' solid evidence.

IE a movie or an actual bomb that is outlawed there should be no actions. Having something that 'proves' they are 'hiding' something is no evidence and would be dismissed in any court.
It's a step in the right direction, though if this is all the US could come up with in all the months they have been working on this I must say I am a bit disappointed.


So far I'd have to say it is not conclusive evidence, but it's not nothing either. It meets half way, to invade any country I'd like to see the other half met too tho.

[Texan]

Originally posted by Sub
Definition:
A·mer·i·ca
The United States.

Neeeehhhhh.... Thanks for playing. The United States is the United States of America. Americans are citizens of the United States of America. America has no real meaning. Only North America and South America. You are the weakest link. Goodbye.

[Texan]

Originally posted by ParraCida
There should be no action against Iraq untill there is 'hard' solid evidence.

IE a movie or an actual bomb that is outlawed there should be no actions. Having something that 'proves' they are 'hiding' something is no evidence and would be dismissed in any court.
It's a step in the right direction, though if this is all the US could come up with in all the months they have been working on this I must say I am a bit disappointed.


So far I'd have to say it is not conclusive evidence, but it's not nothing either. It meets half way, to invade any country I'd like to see the other half met too tho.

If the United States attacks Iraq, and Iraq uses WMD against U.S. and allied forces, would you consider that sufficient proof that Iraq has WMD? Or would you say Iraq was justified in using those weapons because the allies attacked without UN sanction?

[Deffeh]

You give me evidence.

Ill consider supporting the war

Its not justifiable until they find anything, end of story

[xtrasyn]

Originally posted by Texan
If the United States attacks Iraq, and Iraq uses WMD against U.S. and allied forces, would you consider that sufficient proof that Iraq has WMD? Or would you say Iraq was justified in using those weapons because the allies attacked without UN sanction?

Heh

Nice idea

[Bunga]

Originally posted by Texan
If the United States attacks Iraq, and Iraq uses WMD against U.S. and allied forces, would you consider that sufficient proof that Iraq has WMD? Or would you say Iraq was justified in using those weapons because the allies attacked without UN sanction?

That would be sufficient proof, yes.
An yes, Iraq would be justified in using them on the US. Any country has the right to defend itself against agressors. The US has stated that it considers using WOMD in wars in the future, and NATO will not rule out using NBC.

[Sub]

Originally posted by Texan
Neeeehhhhh.... Thanks for playing. The United States is the United States of America. Americans are citizens of the United States of America. America has no real meaning. Only North America and South America. You are the weakest link. Goodbye.

That was from a dictionary.

Twat.

[Texan]

Originally posted by Bunga
That would be sufficient proof, yes.
An yes, Iraq would be justified in using them on the US. Any country has the right to defend itself against agressors. The US has stated that it considers using WOMD in wars in the future, and NATO will not rule out using NBC.

And yet the United States has agreed to destroy most of its WMD and is in the process of doing so; whereas, Iraq agreed as part of a cease fire to destroy all of its weapons of mass destruction and has since done everything in its power to avoid the agreement of the cease fire.

I think your analysis is false. Iraq does not have the right to use weapons it claims it would destroy 12 years ago but has not because the United Nations is too weak to enforce its resolutions.

The UN will shortly go the way of the League of Nations. That is my opinion

[Bunga]

Yes... most. So the US will have only 5 times as much WOMD as Iraq, instead of 50 times. Big deal.

Iraq is a soverign nation. I remember a ear ago, discussing sovreignty with the other US supporters we had here. As far as I remember, IB, DavinBrahm, WarFalcon and Cuddley_Battleship all thought that nothing superceded the sovereignty of a nation. I know you are not they (luckily) but I have detected some anti-UN sentiments in your posts, too.

[Sub]

I can't see any reason for having so many countries now, other than utterly pathetic reasons like "national identity". I'd much rather Europe, North America, South America, Africa, South-East Asia, Middle East (and so on) all became 'blocs'. (So that governing is easier - for instance, the South-East Asia economies are farely in-sync with each other, so wouldn't collapse. The Europe part is a problem, as the UK economy is almost in anti-phase with the rest of Europe, but I'm sure that can be rectified)

[Texan]

Originally posted by Sub
That was from a dictionary.

Twat.

I suspect it was not from a dictionary and that you just lied about it. The reason you used a vulgar phrase here is because you hoped I would forget about the fact that you were wrong and just call you a name in return.

I checked three resources I have on my book shelf. The dictionary did not even have the word America. The Thesauras did not have a listing for America. The German/English dictionary described America as the American continent.

It is possible you did not lie. Maybe you just have a bad dictionary.

Whatever the case may be, I have a degree in English. I worked as a journalist for many years. I have been editing copy since 1988.

The basic understanding among people who make a living by writing in English is that America does not mean the United States. If you mean the United States, you must write the United States. If you mean the United States government, you can write the U.S. government. If you write I live in the U.S., you are wrong. You must write I live in the United states. If you write, I live in America, you are wrong, unless of course you mean that you live somewhere on the North or South American Continents.

[MrL_JaKiri]

HEY

LANGUAGE IS STATIC

WE'LL HAVE NONE OF YOUR COLLOQUIALISMS MR CYRAX

[Sub]

what

It is generally accepted that when people say America, they mean the United States. Have you been living on Mars with your fingers in your ears and your eyes sealed shut?

[Texan]

Originally posted by Bunga
Yes... most. So the US will have only 5 times as much WOMD as Iraq, instead of 50 times. Big deal.

Iraq is a soverign nation. I remember a ear ago, discussing sovreignty with the other US supporters we had here. As far as I remember, IB, DavinBrahm, WarFalcon and Cuddley_Battleship all thought that nothing superceded the sovereignty of a nation. I know you are not they (luckily) but I have detected some anti-UN sentiments in your posts, too.

My anti-UN thoughts have only started recently because the UN cannot enforce resolutions. Two years ago, I did not think much about the UN resolutions on Palestine. Now I think they should be enforced. I also think Resolution 1441 should be enforced, but it appears the UN is not willing to do so. The UNSC would rather continue 280 more years of inspection rather than authorize military force, even though those 280 years of sanctions will cause many more deaths than use of military force to enforce the resolution.

It seems to me that the people of the world have evolved to the point where they say, "It matters not how many people die, so long as we don't have a war."

The United States is meeting its agreements. Iraq is not.

Iraq cannot win no matter what it does. It could force the United States to nuke Baghdad, though, by using biological weapons on Tel Aviv or Amman. Wouldn't that be a wonderful result of the UN refusal to enforce its resolutions?

[Texan]

Originally posted by Sub
I can't see any reason for having so many countries now, other than utterly pathetic reasons like "national identity". I'd much rather Europe, North America, South America, Africa, South-East Asia, Middle East (and so on) all became 'blocs'. (So that governing is easier - for instance, the South-East Asia economies are farely in-sync with each other, so wouldn't collapse. The Europe part is a problem, as the UK economy is almost in anti-phase with the rest of Europe, but I'm sure that can be rectified)

I agree with you almost completely, but that subject needs a separate thread. Why don't you make one? I will be happy to contribute my thoughts, for what they are worth, to the subject. Don't be surprised if I go one step further though.

[Sub]

Aren't the US disobeying the ABM treaty or something?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Sub
Aren't the US disobeying the ABM treaty or something?

Indeed (see: Son of Star Wars)

[Texan]

Originally posted by Sub
what

It is generally accepted that when people say America, they mean the United States. Have you been living on Mars with your fingers in your ears and your eyes sealed shut?

I have been living in the world where you write what you mean, not what most people will understand.

Have you ever been to an America House in Germany. You will normally hear more Spanish spoken than any other language. That is because the peoples of North and South America living in Germany consider themselves to have come from America (not the United States). I have not been living on Mars. I have lived in the United States for 21 years, Mexico for one year, Germany for 13 years and Belgium for two years.

Where have you lived?

[MrL_JaKiri]

You do realise that words can have more than one meaning, yes?

[Sub]

Originally posted by Texan
I have been living in the world where you write what you mean, not what most people will understand.

Have you ever been to an America House in Germany. You will normally hear more Spanish spoken than any other language. That is because the peoples of North and South America living in Germany consider themselves to have come from America (not the United States). I have not been living on Mars. I have lived in the United States for 21 years, Mexico for one year, Germany for 13 years and Belgium for two years.

Where have you lived?

As I've only been alive for a fairly brief period of time, only the UK and the US.

But about the first point - that's not a very strong arguement really. A lot of English words don't make any sense, but people will know what you mean when you say it. I can't think of any examples other than Guinea Pig atm. Also, when people say Gigabyte I think they mean Gigabit. Or something like that.

[Texan]

Originally posted by Sub
Aren't the US disobeying the ABM treaty or something?

The ABM treaty has a clause in it that indicates anyone wishing to withdraw from the treaty may do so with sufficient notice.

The United States gave sufficient notice.

Many media failed to report the clause or the notice. What was reported was only the withdrawal. Of course, withdrawing from a treaty has a different meaning than breaking or disobeying. Hussein has broken the initial terms of the cease fire and has done everything in his power to avoid the requirements of multiple UN resolutions.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Ooh, I missed the bit about understanding.

HAHAHAHAHAHA