who's gonna be blamed this time

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Rumad

nah the authorities never reated because of the abuse some gave him - totally inadequate and inappropriate.

They can only do so much at once. Ironic that certain FAnG individuals were abusing NB3 and co at the time that their own in-game alliance was being abused. Whilst it's not fair on the members it is poetic justice for perpetrators.

[Shadow1980]

Originally Posted by Rumad

no he ignored a problem which resulted in mass in game abuse.

I already said WA was not right, but he has his part to play here....

So in your opinion if somebody tells his login in a public channel and an admin is present, this admin has to delete the account right away? What if this login is actually from somebody else? What if its a trick to set this admin up? In any case the details would have had to be verified and by the time that was done a lot could have already happened.
And again I stress, who is nowadays moronic enough to post passwords on public places? Even your ISP warns you against this when you first sign a contract with them, any decent chat server has this in it's MOTD or User Agreement as warning etc etc.
I suppose he keeps his bank account password written with a permanent marker on his bank pass as well????
NB3 did what he was told to do. Leave the guy alone and go find something else to rant about.

Originally Posted by I am Idler

"I payed real money to play this game but the volounteer crew cannot be blamed".

so who do you complain to, really?

I should probably insert that WA is totally unknown to me and hence cannot be a important figure since I am all knowing

If you feel such an urgen need to complain 24/7, I suggest you go work for the helpdesk of UPC/Chello.
On a more serious note: the fact that you pay for something does not give you the right to be abusive towards the people who work for that same thing. Some people seem to think that if they pay for something or somewhere that they "own" the staff.
And for complaints of a serious and constructive manner there are plenty of places you can resort to. As you probably are well aware off.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Rumad

2) The admins reacted wrongly - regardless of the speed at which they reacted subsequently a small problem escalated because of a lack of judgement because a admin felt harshly treated by an alliance - totally inadequate response imho.

Well, I guess we're going to have to differ on this one. NB3 was receiving considerable abuse at time that our unidentified saboteur was doing his worst.

Originally Posted by Rumad

3) I read your posts far more than you think

Sig material.

[kaos]

Originally Posted by Shadow1980

0. Lo Kaos
1. I will not go into a long rant about it but the whole EULA is rubbish and not legally binding in any way. (Somebody studying contract law/internet related laws will be able to explain this in more detail)
2. But not even taken that into consideration: it is WIDELY known on the internet that posting your passwords of ANY kind somewhere in an even remotely public place is moronic. If such a case would be brought to court in this case WA would be the one who is responsible. Because he could have known quite well that this could/would happen.
3. So I still don't see how NB3 is responsible? If he was under an obligation to not use Admin tools for a week, then he should not have used admin tools. In any other case if he would have done, the community would have screamed POWER ABUSE etc.
4. Back in round 3 when I joined the crew myself I actualy had a major disagreement with the "leader" as you call it over some issues related to the forums. In my opinion not all having the same opinion only improves matters and as far as I know this opinion is widely shared. Nobody needs a group of people who only say yes and amen. So I guess you have a personal bad experience or heard some kind of silly story.

1. i told spinner like 3 days after the public beta started (or even before ? can't remember), that i have STRONG objections against the legality of the eula, but he said jolts doing it (yes jolt DOES care \o/)
2. well, now a simple question: you give a _bad guy_ a weapon while the police can see it, what HAS to be action of the police ? catch taht bad guy. now call nb3 the police and wa the guy handing out the weapon.
3. what does more damage to the game ? an account which broke the eula and still runs or a closed account, which broke the eula ? imho ANY pacrew member with sufficient access should use the tools in such cases, nb3s style of argumenting is the same way of argumenting the soldiers did after ww2 (i had instructions (not) to do so) and imho he has some guilt ( you can argue how much, but imho you can't say he is NOT guilty at all)
4. in r3 pa wasn't about money, i think that attitude came a bit later and i had that experience more then once

but as i said its not up for "us" to take the decision, its up to the pacrew, but it should be handled ASAP

[dabult]

Originally Posted by Shadow1980

So in your opinion if somebody tells his login in a public channel and an admin is present, this admin has to delete the account right away? What if this login is actually from somebody else? What if its a trick to set this admin up?

Yes.

As soon as anybody but yourself has access to your logininfo there is ground to delete the planet in question. Whether or not it is his own planet doesnt matter, the info is shared, be it hacking or whatever foul play involved doesnt matter either, the info was still shared.
Had it been foul play involved, tough, but your details are out in the open and hence you get closed.

[Shadow1980]

Originally Posted by Rumad

1) I know you d and I don't try to say you aren't

2) The admins reacted wrongly - regardless of the speed at which they reacted subsequently a small problem escalated because of a lack of judgement because a admin felt harshly treated by an alliance - totally inadequate response imho.

3) I read your posts far more than you think

You have a rather twisted view on the world my friend. If somebody gets shot, are you going to blame the police officer who was a street away for not being in the right street as well?
NB3 stated and many others with him that he was under orders to NOT use admin tools. If some git (excuse me) comes along and posts his password (again I say this is the #1 no-no on internet) then how is it NB3's responsibility??

[Kjeldoran]

To clarify some of the responds I received (like Tomkat, Realjames etc). I did not leave FAnG, I only stepped down as CEO. And this has infact nothing to do with WA's action. It is all about a complete different issue, internal stuff, that made me decide to step back.

One more thing, I never ever regret apointing WA. He's one of the hardest working HC's I've worked with so far and eventhough I will never try to justify his screw-up yesterday, I still consider him a friend and I will still thank him for value he added to FAnG.

rgds Kj

[Shadow1980]

Originally Posted by kaos

1. i told spinner like 3 days after the public beta started (or even before ? can't remember), that i have STRONG objections against the legality of the eula, but he said jolts doing it (yes jolt DOES care \o/)
2. well, now a simple question: you give a _bad guy_ a weapon while the police can see it, what HAS to be action of the police ? catch taht bad guy. now call nb3 the police and wa the guy handing out the weapon.
3. what does more damage to the game ? an account which broke the eula and still runs or a closed account, which broke the eula ? imho ANY pacrew member with sufficient access should use the tools in such cases, nb3s style of argumenting is the same way of argumenting the soldiers did after ww2 (i had instructions (not) to do so) and imho he has some guilt ( you can argue how much, but imho you can't say he is NOT guilty at all)
4. in r3 pa wasn't about money, i think that attitude came a bit later and i had that experience more then once

but as i said its not up for "us" to take the decision, its up to the pacrew, but it should be handled ASAP

1. Electronic User License Agreements are currently not legally binding in all countries, and there are discussions in court about their legality as a whole. Usually these agreements are presented in an unfair way and you have no other option but to accept it. Hopefully there will be more clearly developed laws for action and interaction on the internet soon.
2. NB3 was currently a police officer off duty without the authority to arrest somebody to use your way of describing it. I still say he acted as he should have done, and I still say it is moronic to go somewhere and hand out your password. Blame the powerblock for making such a moron HC and give him access.
3. Accounts alone shouldnt be able to damage in the first place. Why dont have such things like deleting alliances entirely need confirmation from several HC?

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

To clarify some of the responds I received (like Tomkat, Realjames etc). I did not leave FAnG, I only stepped down as CEO. And this has infact nothing to do with WA's action. It is all about a complete different issue, internal stuff, that made me decide to step back.

I never posted words to that effect. I've just posted a lot on this thread today because flaming WA is more fun than work.

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

One more thing, I never ever regret apointing WA. He's one of the hardest working HC's I've worked with so far and eventhough I will never try to justify his screw-up yesterday, I still consider him a friend and I will still thank him for value he added to FAnG.

Killmark is hardworking and a nice guy. Both have greatly harmed the game.

[Shadow1980]

Originally Posted by Rumad

TWisted view on the world?

lol

All else fails go for personal insults eh?

Lol


as for your police analogy its inappropriate - if you use it he was standing over the perp with a loaded gun and was unwilling to react. he wasn't in the wrong street he was right in front of the killing.

As already stated those above him need there head read. At the end of the day this could have been avoided if some power holding egoiste had allowed him to sort it. Failure to do so is such a **** up its ridiculous.

Ah. So this means you failed and go for personal insults now then, accordingly to your own reasoning? o_O

[Zeus]

I wonder.......would this senerio have arrisen if the "Delete Account" button was put ingame from the start?


After reading this very surprising thead, its shows a very bad sequence of events, leading to not only the anger from 100 or so effected accounts, but the total 8k accounts due to ticks stopped.

For those who are shouting about the rights or wrongs of some people actions:

1. WA MUST be deleted. Even if noone entered his account, he still must be delted. For disclosing his login/password information to another. There is no justifible reason why someone else would have your login/password information. No matter if they used it or not, the person who disclosed that information MUST be closed/deleted. This goes for any other person who disclosed their login/password information on the irc network, as said by NB3 in his above post. I cant beleve someone who was actually a HC was stupid enough to disclose his login/password to public, knowing the HC tools in his account where still active. Why didnt he give HC status to others, remove himself from said alliance, before requesting it deleted, I'll never know.

2. I cant help but feel NB3's fustration here. I persume he knew people would acess these accounts, when the login/pass was pasted on irc. I pursume he tried to record all account details and get them closed to stop anyone entering the accounts and abusing them. For what its worth NB3 even if you where told not to use admin for a week by MIT, due to the seriousness of point 1 above and the simple rule of - the is no reason to disclose your login/password info EVER - there wouldnt be ANY questions of the closure/deletion as it really IS/WAS immediate closure. I would only say that if you sent all the details of the accounts which logins/password where being disclosed, to someone who would/could act on closing the nessary accounts, why wasnt it immediate? Guys you cant have a delay in closing in cases like this, you need someone online all the time with acess to act if/when needed. If you dont have a procedure in place at the moment then pls put one in place for the future as I ceriously do beleive we will now have many more spamming of login/passwords of quitters accounts, due to this mess.

3. Investigate the logs and find the ips that acessed WA account and trace them to the real planets and close those accounts also, as they too have broken the rules by entering another account other than their own.

4. I can certainly feel Fangs fustration about this situation, Im sure they all felt like giving up due to this, but when a HC goes, you have to remember its not the HC that keeps the fang community togeather, its the community which keeps itself, no single individual. I feel I must add that I do not agree the ticks should of been stopped. Setting this president, will sadly encourage others to do the same when they need a tick stop and now those running PA MUST do the same for any alliance a similar situation arrises. Think Spock "Needs of the many, outway the needs of a few" Stopping ticks gives many time to questions there commitment to PA and give them an excuse to quite PA and its community. Every tick stop or rollback does this, so you may have stopped a few fang from quiting, by stopping ticks, but unfortunately you may have lost much more players with the tick stop than any off us will be aware.

This sad state of affairs never needed to happen in the first place and for those who do not blame WA for anything.......its nice to have loyalty to someone, but please dont let that blind you. He broke the rules and should be deleted, just like anyone else who followed his action after or before him. But looking for someone to blame all of this on....wont solve the problem. PA people need to ensure an acceptible procedure is in place to avoid this ever happening again.

[kaos]

Originally Posted by Shadow1980

1. Electronic User License Agreements are currently not legally binding in all countries, and there are discussions in court about their legality as a whole. Usually these agreements are presented in an unfair way and you have no other option but to accept it. Hopefully there will be more clearly developed laws for action and interaction on the internet soon.
2. NB3 was currently a police officer off duty without the authority to arrest somebody to use your way of describing it. I still say he acted as he should have done, and I still say it is moronic to go somewhere and hand out your password. Blame the powerblock for making such a moron HC and give him access.
3. Accounts alone shouldnt be able to damage in the first place. Why dont have such things like deleting alliances entirely need confirmation from several HC?

1. yes, lets hope this shit gets illegal :]
2. well, even an officer out of duty HAS to do something against that
3. well, again who is to blame for this ? spinner & co [actually prince wanted to let the ely techies do the ally system, because we already got a quite advanced system there, but heh spinner took it all to himself and you can see the great result ...]

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by Maddix

In addition I also hear the entire cause for this was a form of 'protest' against PATeam because of some recently closures. Surely if you fix the situation (as if it never happened) it would be similar to giving in to the demands of the accused and apparently guilty?

hmm, let's just say we didn't only play against planets this round.

[Hurragutten]

Originally Posted by kaos

well, you better read was posts again, he strictly declines ANY liability for the actions done with his account. and THATS the reason why HE imho is to blame most of all. ofc everyone can do ****ups (i do enough of em myself ) but not accepting you did a ****up afterwards is the _real_ ****up.
and when i see the arrogance in those posts of the fang hcs i could just throw up

I completely agree.
As I am not a member of eet or FAnG or Dragons I feel quite neutral to this.

In my opinion no FAnGers shoul loose because one member did a stupid mistake. All FAnGers should be imediately added to the ally again. WA should be deleted. all ships grounded, tickeer start again.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I wonder.......would this senerio have arrisen if the "Delete Account" button was put ingame from the start?


After reading this very surprising thead, its shows a very bad sequence of events, leading to not only the anger from 100 or so effected accounts, but the total 8k accounts due to ticks stopped.

For those who are shouting about the rights or wrongs of some people actions:

1. WA MUST be deleted. Even if noone entered his account, he still must be delted. For disclosing his login/password information to another. There is no justifible reason why someone else would have your login/password information. No matter if they used it or not, the person who disclosed that information MUST be closed/deleted. This goes for any other person who disclosed their login/password information on the irc network, as said by NB3 in his above post. I cant beleve someone who was actually a HC was stupid enough to disclose his login/password to public, knowing the HC tools in his account where still active. Why didnt he give HC status to others, remove himself from said alliance, before requesting it deleted, I'll never know.

2. I cant help but feel NB3's fustration here. I persume he knew people would acess these accounts, when the login/pass was pasted on irc. I pursume he tried to record all account details and get them closed to stop anyone entering the accounts and abusing them. For what its worth NB3 even if you where told not to use admin for a week by MIT, due to the seriousness of point 1 above and the simple rule of - the is no reason to disclose your login/password info EVER - there wouldnt be ANY questions of the closure/deletion as it really IS/WAS immediate closure. I would only say that if you sent all the details of the accounts which logins/password where being disclosed, to someone who would/could act on closing the nessary accounts, why wasnt it immediate? Guys you cant have a delay in closing in cases like this, you need someone online all the time with acess to act if/when needed. If you dont have a procedure in place at the moment then pls put one in place for the future as I ceriously do beleive we will now have many more spamming of login/passwords of quitters accounts, due to this mess.

3. Investigate the logs and find the ips that acessed WA account and trace them to the real planets and close those accounts also, as they too have broken the rules.

4. I can certainly feel Fangs fustration about this situation, Im sure they all felt like giving up due to this, but when a HC goes, you have to remember its not the HC that keeps the fang community togeather, its the community which keeps itself, no single individual. I feel I must add that I do not agree the ticks should of been stopped. Setting this president, will sadly encourage others to do the same when they need a tick stop and now those running PA MUST do the same for any alliance a similar situation arrises. Think Spock "Needs of the many, outway the needs of a few" Stopping ticks gives many time to questions there commitment to PA and give them an excuse to quite PA and its community. Every tick stop or rollback does this, so you may have stopped a few fang from quiting, by stopping ticks, but unfortunately you may have lost much more players with the tick stop than any off us will be aware.

This sad state of affairs never needed to happen in the first place and for those who do not blame WA for anything.......its nice to have loyalty to someone, but please dont let that blind you. He broke the rules and should be deleted, just like anyone else who followed his action after or before him. But looking for someone to blame all of this one....wont solve the problem. PA people need to ensure an acceptible procedure is in place to avoid this ever happening again.

Zeus has been reading my posts.

But seriously, I once again add support to deleting WA and if the as yet unidentified saboteur is also a currently player then he/she should also be closed, deleted and hopefully named and shamed.

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

From: Headquarters Subject: Alliance Membership has been terminated Sent: Sun Dec 7 23:11:46 2003

[23:59:47] <WebAngel> <-- now close me and delete me whenever you want


For those who don't know what I'm getting at, look at the times. Both are PA time. Heh.



(Edit- To avoid further irritating problems don't actually post login details on the forums. It's just needless hassle-JBG)

did you have a fang account?
and an eclipse account?

[Shadow1980]

Ofcourse as Zeus stated there is the fact that there was nobody there who *could* act properly which caused an issue as well. I feel sorry for NB3 to have been forced into the defensive position where he currently is. It should not have been needed.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Scorpio

did you have a fang account?
and an eclipse account?

Giving you ideas Scorp?

[Hexy]

Originally Posted by Zeus

I This sad state of affairs never needed to happen in the first place and for those who do not blame WA for anything.......its nice to have loyalty to someone, but please dont let that blind you. He broke the rules and should be deleted, just like anyone else who followed his action after or before him. But looking for someone to blame all of this on....wont solve the problem. PA people need to ensure an acceptible procedure is in place to avoid this ever happening again.

loyalty yes indeed. broke the rules yes indeed. wanted his account deleted yes indeed. was refused by admin yes indeed. broke rule to get deleted yes indeed. delete feature needed yes indeed. zeus... i miss ya.. merry christmas hope all is well in your life! *huggles*

[NEWSBOT3]

Originally Posted by Rumad

close the idiots then - again you cannot hold an alliance to blame for several idiotic individuals.

as i said, i am not permitted to do so.

Yes you are pressured, but you choose to do what you do - it doesn't mean you act appropriately here and please don't play the sympathy card - you did not act appropriately regardless hwo you felt individually -

see above, if im not allowed to act, what can i do exactly ?

tbh I think you have said enough here to get yourself deletd from teh pateam and rightfully so.

really, like what exactly ?

You seem to eager to blame an entire alliance - perhaps you need a break...

i also need a holiday but im not going to get one of those anytime soon either.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

i also need a holiday but im not going to get one of those anytime soon either.

I'm overdue a holiday also. Shall we elope? That'd give the AD'ers something to post about!

[xozmal]

...bahahahahahaha!!! :lol:

:sleigh:

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by Hexy

loyalty yes indeed. broke the rules yes indeed. wanted his account deleted yes indeed. was refused by admin yes indeed. broke rule to get deleted yes indeed. delete feature needed yes indeed. zeus... i miss ya.. merry christmas hope all is well in your life! *huggles*

merry christmas to you also

[Hurragutten]

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

I didnt act for several reasons.

1. Mit asked me to not use my admin tools for a week or so, and i agreed. Oddly enough, i keep my word. As far as i am aware Mit has currently assumed 'charge' and as such all decisions need to be approved by him, so no-admin could have done anything for some time.

Strange request, but a valid argument I think.

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

Personally, i think FanG are entirely to blame, since they and their HC's were going into public channels and pasting logins to try and get closed. How they are blaming just one person for this, i don't know.

If there were several players posting user/pass, they should all be deleted. I had no idea there were more than 1 poster. However: blaming everyone in FAnG can't be justified

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

3. Fang decided to try and basically blackmail Planetarion last night, by threatening to leave with all their friends if they didnt get special treatment (such as the removal of people they dont like, and being moved into new alliances without having to wait 72 ticks like everyone else). Personally i told them they dont run Planetarion and to go away, but i can't speak for what mit has said since. (see point 1)

these players should also be deleted if you are able to resolve their identity.

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

i appear to not be allowed to make decisions anymore.

At the end of the day, i wasnt allowed to react, and i certainly wasnt inclined to break my word for people who are downright abusive to me regularly. Personally i think you should be blaming the folks that wont let me act, but hey, thats your call.

If you aren't alowed to react that's really stupid and mit or whoever makes that call is too blame and should reconsider both such stupid ideas and consider if they are entitled to having the position they have.

[omslemming]

god its just a fu***** game grow up! lol...and go outside it might open up a whole new world to you all

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by omslemming

god its just a fu***** game grow up! lol...and go outside it might open up a whole new world to you all

Sunlight causes cancer.

[sinister]

i think this is all really dumb i think the logical thing to do if these members were posting details is to let them and reap the rewards of no defence its obviously what they wanted and those that blackmail pa team should also simply be ignored and everyone just left to play there game as they want and let fang deal with there own squabbles and problems that there own are creating. it is unfair that everyone is penalised for these actions.

[Maddix]

Originally Posted by Scorpio

hmm, let's just say we didn't only play against planets this round.

Aye, playing against the stupidity of your own alliance members is not a nice thing. Oh wait I forgot they are innocenet of the crimes they are accused! Wonder what you could mean then...

[NEWSBOT3]

Originally Posted by Rumad

I think your reaction was pretty appauling. I think your response on these boards was pretty appauling (specifically blaming FAnG and the tone leading to "they got what they deserved" type comments).

my reaction was all that i could do. I wanted to do something, i was not allowed to. I can't speak for the other 3 admins that were also online at that time.

My response was telling the truth, which people don't see to do round here. Fang were trying to force PATeam do run the game how fang wanted it run last night, and everyone seems to have forgotten that fact. As a result of those actions of trying to force control over the game they got their alliance disbanded in game, frankly, i see that as being their fault. How that is not their fault is really quite beyond me.

However I agree that you should not have your hands tied. In situations like tis which require quick thinking and even quicker actions tieing yoru hands is absoluely piss poor.

[email protected] would be the person to complain to here.

I don't necessarily blame you per se - just the lack of response from anyone in any significant position of power. When things like this occur people need to be on hand that can close the account - even be it temporarily.

see above.

As for a holiday / break - get it sorted - gits good for teh soul

am trying, will probably step back from the game for a week or two.

Originally Posted by RealJames

I'm overdue a holiday also. Shall we elope? That'd give the AD'ers something to post about!

hmm, a holiday AND hotmansex0r ?

lets go baby!

[sinister]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Its unfair an entire alliance cannot defend its membership for teh actions of the few.
there can be no defined right or wrong here - all we can hope is that a sensible compromised is reached allowing the FAnG members access to adequate defence.

but those few were members of HC and other officers as far as i see they are the alliance and the people that run it so if that is the way they want to play it blame them and stop blaming pa team

[dabult]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Its unfair an entire alliance cannot defend its membership for teh actions of the few.
there can be no defined right or wrong here - all we can hope is that a sensible compromised is reached allowing the FAnG members access to adequate defence.

Shit happens and the team have NO obligations what so ever to 'help' you.

Be glad they are even looking at it and stopped the ticks, that is way more than anybody should expect. They owe FAnG NOTHING, as it was the doings of a member that ****ed them over, not the team.

[[DDK]gm]

Originally Posted by dabult

Shit happens and the team have NO obligations what so ever to 'help' you.

Be glad they are even looking at it and stopped the ticks, that is way more than anybody should expect. They owe FAnG NOTHING, as it was the doings of a member that ****ed them over, not the team.

couldnt agree more :/

[Spearhead]

the only post here that makes sense is Zeus', damn why did they let that man go

we miss you big Zed

btw : to PAD - admin gods : what you going to do if tomorrow another alliance does the same thing? oops there goes the last of your credibility

[[DDK]gm]

yes rumad and I think they should do something to help them but they are under no obligation to, there should be a safegard in the game to prevent this but since there isnt HC should not jepordise thier allinace like WA had done.

PA team should reinstate the fang members and delete the person responsable and any other people that have acted inapropriatly during this.

[dabult]

Originally Posted by Rumad

help me? I AM NOT IN FANG AND ....

That would have been enough thank you very much for shouting at me for not knowing.

Tell me how I am incorrect. The team did nothing wrong, NB3 did nothing wrong, WA did. FAnG should be damn happy they actually stopped the ticks for several thousands of players, due to ONE player ****ing it up.

I am still right even if it sucks and is unfair, PA holds ZERO responsibility to this.
It was unlucky that nobody closed WA fast enough thats all.

[Grim]

oki, after 6 pages with post I reckon its time to clear some matters up.

At 23.00 cest Fang had a meeting, a meeting where they told their members Fang was disbanding. The disbanding was a result of what they thought was an unfair multy hunting. At this point I dont think I should go into any details about how the multy hunting has been done, other than saying FAnG HC's were sick and tired of a hunting where they felt they were the biggest target.

FAnG wasnt to be disbanded forever, they was just not gonna play the rest of r10. However during the meeting, and after looking at the reaction of their members they realiced it was not a good solution to let their members just be let to die. The decision was made to continiue for the 2 weeks which is left(no actuall date for the end has been set).

Before this a few members had left in anger, we are not talking about a big number but a few.

WebAngel, which I personally think is a great guy, had decided to stop playing no matter what, he didnt want to tell his reasons in his post earlier, so I wont do it eather.

WebAngel contacted PA team, but they refuced to close his account, so in anger WA pasted his loggin info in #suport.

[23:59] <WebAngel> foxgrove/VHQFBSIF <-- now close me and delete me whenever you want
[23:59] * P sets mode: +b *!*WebAngel@*.net81-65-112.noos.fr
[23:59] * WebAngel was kicked by P ((NB3) No Reason)
[00:00] <remy|afk> rofl, nb3,m thats original, you must admit that, now he forced you to change his login
[00:00] <NB3|busy> im not changing his login
[00:00] <NB3|busy> im not touching any admin tool other than for fixing bugs or closing cheating planets

As u can view from this NB3 could have stopped it all, however he has been told not to close any planets, as from what looks to be an isance closing of planets lately, til further investigation has been done.

I personally think NB3 should closed or at least changed WA's loginn info, however he didnt because he had been told not to close any accounts. Should NB3 have done something to prevent this, and realiced that his orders was not to be followed in a case like this, I say yes..!! however whats done is done.

The pasting of WebAngels info has as most people know resulted in someone logging into WebAngels account and kicked most of the Fang players out of their alliance. As for who did this we dont know, however im sure pa team can find out, and if they need any help I got the IP to whoever logged in !!!!

The kicking of all these members resulted in half an alliance beeing left alone withouth any posible way to get def. So mit, which has been great, stopped the ticks, for then to wait for Fudge to put the Fang members back in their alliance. And I cant posible think of a better solution, I know u wouldnt like to be kicked from ur alliance by mistake, for then to be left to die.

I hope this put some light on this case, as im a bit tired of people posting rumours or other stuff, which has nothing to do with the truth what so ever. I also know most people know all this allready(but at least I put it all in once place), and what u dont know ur better off not knowing.. !!

[Salt]

3. Fang decided to try and basically blackmail Planetarion last night, by threatening to leave with all their friends if they didnt get special treatment (such as the removal of people they dont like, and being moved into new alliances without having to wait 72 ticks like everyone else)

I would understand if they had wanted to be placed back into their own alliance without that 72 hour waiting period going by but for them to demand no waiting period to be moved into other alliances is a bit silly. I feel bad for the innocent members who had no control over the actions of a retarded hc but I honestly don't see one good reason for them to avoid the waiting period if they want to change alliances entirely. Internal alliance issues causing members to want to leave is an internal fang problem and shouldn't be catered to by PATeam at all.

[General1]

I think u are all retarted :lol: , get a life.

It happened nothing we can do about it ANYMORE

[Hexy]

Originally Posted by Salt

I would understand if they had wanted to be placed back into their own alliance without that 72 hour waiting period going by but for them to demand no waiting period to be moved into other alliances is a bit silly. I feel bad for the innocent members who had no control over the actions of a retarded hc but I honestly don't see one good reason for them to avoid the waiting period if they want to change alliances entirely. Internal alliance issues causing members to want to leave is an internal fang problem and shouldn't be catered to by PATeam at all.

I feel badly for the innocent too, but maybe you should try to expand on your vocabulary because using an analogy of being retarded is just not right. I personally give more respect to someone who can state thier OPINION eliquently and not resort to slanderous degrating terms. If this was only a FAnG problem I would agree with you. But maybe Im a bit more enlightened then you are on all the causes.. admin have been unfair. ~

[mjrTorspo]

Who does officially represent an alliance if not the hc? then no war declarations have ever been official either if they were announced by a hc, just induviduals talking bs in ad.

Next thing to do is delete WA and all other fangers who posted theirs logins in public, and if you decide to give them special treatment from having idiots as hc(the ppl who are trusted to run their alliance?) then put those fang planets that were kicked(NOT the ones that left ingame themselves!) back into fang if they really were kicked by some1 else then fang personnel.

Originally Posted by NEWSBOT3

Fang were trying to force PATeam do run the game how fang wanted it run last night, and everyone seems to have forgotten that fact. As a result of those actions of trying to force control over the game they got their alliance disbanded in game, frankly, i see that as being their fault. How that is not their fault is really quite beyond me.

I still vote for opening the game up and letting them have their 72hour delay at rejoining, was their stupidity(not just 1 induvidual) that caused for the game to stop for every1, no1 elses.

[kaos]

[00:00] <NB3|busy> im not touching any admin tool other than for fixing bugs or closing cheating planets

Quote from the EULA point 4: You may not disclose your password to any third party.

so multihunters don't even know the rules of the game ?

[mjrTorspo]

Covert 1946 1 agents hacked into our system and left our alliance. Our IQ average has been raised.

[evil one]

Funny how things can get out of hand like this. The way I see it NB3 acted too inflexible in this situation. Knowing a HC had pasted his login info should have made him change the password at least, even though he had been told not to use his admin superpowers. But let's not forget that he isn't the idiot who decided to paste his (HC) login info in a public IRC channel. Direct your (verbal) abuse to the HC in question, instead of a PA team volunteer.

Even though HC's represent their alliance and their actions affect their members I don't think the members should have to suffer from such an extreme and unusual case of stupidity. But that's why the ticker has been stopped, isn't it? The PA team didn't have to stop the ticker. They could have just let it run and let the fang members clean up the mess their leader(s?) made.

Also, if I noticed a HC of another alliance pasting login info I would at least try to log in to see for myself if it works. I might even steal the coords list .

[Salt]

Originally Posted by Hexy

I feel badly for the innocent too, but maybe you should try to expand on your vocabulary because using an analogy of being retarded is just not right. I personally give more respect to someone who can state thier OPINION eliquently and not resort to slanderous degrating terms. If this was only a FAnG problem I would agree with you. But maybe Im a bit more enlightened then you are on all the causes.. admin have been unfair. ~

So you believe that because a fang HC member cheated that PA should not only undo the damage he caused but give them a free pass to join whatever other alliance they want? Sorry but if your members no longer wish to be in the in game alliance for Fang then there's exactly zero reason for them to not adhere to the 72 hour waiting period. As I said, I totally understand wanting to be placed back into the in game fang alliance without the waiting period since that would undo what direct damage the cheating caused. Fang's internal problems that would cause people to actually want to leave the alliance are fang's problems alone.

[Rimmerz]

time to add my 2 cents i believe -

1st of all - WebAngel - if u cannot admit ur in the wrong here u are not a man, trying to take the blame off yourself for your actions here - tis quite easy to just leave ur account for a week and watch it blip away - noone asked u to c/p ur login details in a public channel and since ur in a position of authority (obviously not a happy one of that) u really should have known better.
2nd the person who accessed the account should come clean since he's also to blame about ticks going down
3rd why FAnG were disbanding is also a mystery (and why Jurgen and Grim were there too) - u guys are the #1 alliance and hold the main accounts in game, if there is a problem at least leave it until end of the round. If Jurgen and Grim| were there to recruit the remaining FAnG then it's a very lame way of possibly winning a bet there Mads - then again i thought the way u tried to recruit me was too.....

WebAngel and the person who accessed his account - plz come up clean as saying u lot were in the wrong and can we can get back to playng - instead of flaming pateam and NB3 especially

[Razorback]

i dont think anyone can blame nb3 for not acting, Fang has not the best track record with pa support team (getting called morons, idiots, fags) and constantly whinning "if you dont do this we all leave the game" (lo jurgen and kj) and last but not least the threats towards mrbrick (lo kjeldoran "break up eet or we all leave") in combination with the permanent inability to accept a cheater was caught ( webangels hillarious webpage accusing anyone and especially pateam for the failures of fang) will certainly leave in the denial of a free service. Something which is understandable. Especially since webangel didnt post the login by accident, he did it on purpose to provoke nb3 so he could have another dig at "those ****in admins messing with our planets and closeing ppl".

Webangel called that all on himself and acted pretty stupid and damaged fang like leff and irvine aswell who are apparently also closed.
This throws a bad light on fang and this is NOT the fault of the normal members.
Those who cry loudest how unfair pacrew is did infact in the past the most to damage their alliance because ppl like webangel will be seen as a representative of fang and this image you cant switch on or off whenever you feel like it.
So in the end of the day this will be a fang cheating scandal (3 hc closed) how much that hurts the innocent regular fanger who only tried to win the damn round.
Tu was alteast smart enough to step down from everything and to take the blame on itself where webangel is defiant and pretends all mistakes ( HIS mistakes) were caused by others and shows off total arrogance and a lack of responsibility for his actions.

That ticks are stopped is amuseing as i dont recall a single occasion of such an action before, tho imo justified in its result to protect those who are just victims for a day and to make the whole situation as easy to swallow for every1.

[Razorback]

towards nb3's statement of mit haveing a special deal with fang incase they disband, i honestly hope this is not the case because imo the 72h limit is a known fact for everyone and those who have or would have changed in the past (some ppl didnt leave their alliance because they feared to get roided without defence) would be ****ed over for the sake of just 100 players.
If fang "disband" or "swap" players they must eat the meal they have ordered.

[Yeggstry]

Originally Posted by Rumad

Totally agreed

you can't have your cake and eat it as the saying goes.

Exactly.

AS a former ViruS member having to move into Eclipse, those three days were absolute hell for me and my fellow ex-ViruS members that became Eclipse. Not only could we not offer defence to our new alliance m8s but also we couldn't get any defence ourself. I myself was hit at least 4 times during those 72 hrs, losing a lot of the ships and roids that I had.

And now the fact that FAnG want to move to a new alliance without this 72 hrs makes me very mad. If you dont like it, dont leave. Otherwise shut the **** up and suffer like the rest of us have had to.

YOU made the bed, YOU can sleep in it.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Grim

WebAngel, which I personally think is a great guy, had decided to stop playing no matter what, he didnt want to tell his reasons in his post earlier, so I wont do it eather.

WebAngel contacted PA team, but they refuced to close his account, so in anger WA pasted his loggin info in #suport.

[23:59] <WebAngel> foxgrove/VHQFBSIF <-- now close me and delete me whenever you want
[23:59] * P sets mode: +b *!*WebAngel@*.net81-65-112.noos.fr
[23:59] * WebAngel was kicked by P ((NB3) No Reason)
[00:00] <remy|afk> rofl, nb3,m thats original, you must admit that, now he forced you to change his login
[00:00] <NB3|busy> im not changing his login
[00:00] <NB3|busy> im not touching any admin tool other than for fixing bugs or closing cheating planets

As u can view from this NB3 could have stopped it all, however he has been told not to close any planets, as from what looks to be an isance closing of planets lately, til further investigation has been done.

I personally think NB3 should closed or at least changed WA's loginn info, however he didnt because he had been told not to close any accounts. Should NB3 have done something to prevent this, and realiced that his orders was not to be followed in a case like this, I say yes..!! however whats done is done.

The PAteam failed to react in time, they did not cause this. To try to take the focus of blame away from WA for whatever reason is somewhat foolhardly, be your reasons personal or political, I have strong evidence to suggest the latter.

[RealJames]

Originally Posted by Rimmerz

If Jurgen and Grim| were there to recruit the remaining FAnG then it's a very lame way of possibly winning a bet there Mads - then again i thought the way u tried to recruit me was too.....

I resisted this one for so long!