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Unread 8 Sep 2018, 08:28   #1
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The Ironborn Backstab

In there first round of playing did the mighty Ironborn pull off one of the finest backstabs of recent PA era? A backstab that will lead them to glory? Or was it a short sighted move by a cripple? Only time will tell.

"Hi all
Lots of rumours flying around so I thought you could hear it from me direct, at least then if you hate me, you can blame me from a position of knowledge.
This round, IB needed help on Ult, we were hitting ult gals. I said I was worried they would all wander off and leave us alone on Ult, they assured us they wouldn't. That is EXACTLY what happened and we continued to hit after they all stopped.
Then yesterday, they requested we rejoin on ult as it was starting again. I agreed and we hit ult gals again, with a view to joining fully as soon as possible (I had some other pols I needed to sort out).
We hit them last night.
Another of Ib's problems were they were getting hit hard, so I worked my ass off to ensure that they didn't get so much incs. IB were insistent that carn wouldnt stop hitting them. I spoke to carn, smoothed things over and got things moving with regards to a nap between IB and carn.
Carn and IB napped and IB then immedietly napped Ult with a view to coming after us for easy roids. I have supported IB a lot this round and as far as I am concerned, they backstabbed. We have been offered naps by people over the past week or two. I said no, my reason being 'we are all hitting ult and I trust your word'. This was a huge mistake by me but done is done.
Ult and IB want to roid race us. We are already putting things in place to ensure that doesn't happen.
Everyone thinks we will be smashed tonight by everyone, we are working hard to ensure that won't happen.
We may have ND and DLR incs, but they are co and we are covered. Also, it won't last. We may get otters and stellar, but again it wont last.
We will get hit by IB hard, and I would think this will continue till the end of the round. As such, all defence orders previously are now void. We will get new defence orders out tonight, but I can tell you now, they will be anti-IB.
Priority on defence will go against IB. We were in with a chance of winning but I think ult just guaranteed themselves the win.
I will update further later tonight once I m home and have sorted out a few naps..
From this point onwards, anyone in CT who can arrange an alliance nap between CT and any other alliance, please come to me asap. We have some of the best, most influential players in the game, let's make it count.
Incase I cant be clearer, IB screwed us and the aim now will be to ensure they lose.
My apoligies
Forest"


So now we have Ultores / Carnage / IB & CT in a roid race. With Ult heavily in the lead and only 2 allies that can actually hit them? Carnage politically untouchable. IB can only hit CT

What is CT's next play?

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Unread 8 Sep 2018, 09:27   #2
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

Damn, my spelling is bad.
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Unread 8 Sep 2018, 20:24   #3
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

*in their...

Next moves:
Forest goes back to school.
Astatores is currently not napped to Ironborn. Create a new super block with astatores to take down "What do I do?" and Ironborn.
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Unread 9 Sep 2018, 02:02   #4
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

Ironborn have indeed pulled off one of the finest moves in pa history and secured themselves in second place glory.
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Unread 9 Sep 2018, 12:02   #5
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

Lots of fiction in there, it was ult that sorted the carn nap. Look at ct fleet movement, hit non ult more than ult in the galaxies you hit. Sitting on the fence not properly taking a side, usually this leads to both sides hitting said alliance, happened many times in recent and long forgotten rounds. Settling for second is better than constant incoming for the rest of the round and finishing fourth. It allows members to sleep at night. If carn or norse had been neutral we could have had an interesting round since they chose not to we got another shitty round. I mostly blame pa team, nerfed xp too much in addition to choosing defensive stats. I'd rather play xp every round than blocktarion.
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Unread 9 Sep 2018, 17:39   #6
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Look at ct fleet movement, hit non ult more than ult in the galaxies you hit. Sitting on the fence not properly taking a side, usually this leads to both sides hitting said alliance, happened many times in recent and long forgotten rounds.
Not true, ct put at least 50% of all their fleets on Ult and then 50% on the rest of the gal, which was a combination of alliances.

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Settling for second is better than constant incoming for the rest of the round and finishing fourth. It allows members to sleep at night.
Really? Great job.

(And you were gaining on Ult AND more help was coming the next night, and your incs were gonna drop substantially, both of which your HC knew.

And I am fairly sure you won't finish 2nd

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If carn or norse had been neutral we could have had an interesting round since they chose not to we got another shitty round. I mostly blame pa team, nerfed xp too much in addition to choosing defensive stats. I'd rather play xp every round than blocktarion.
IB started the block war and sent 4 alliances at Ult, BEFORE carn went on IB.

The first quote in this post is you complaining about CT not blocking, this part is you saying you hate blocks.

This post says everything about IB tbh.
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Unread 10 Sep 2018, 06:25   #7
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

If you dont give 440 incs the first part, among with 3 other tags. People are happy to be more neutral.

If you even came solo, it would be another scenario.

An eye for an eye

Respect from trying to get the win tho, didnt see that coming.
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Unread 10 Sep 2018, 12:05   #8
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

I'd just like to congratulate Agar3s and Ult for being better in every single facet of the game than VecoX and StillBorn.

Congratulations.
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Unread 10 Sep 2018, 16:51   #9
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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I'd just like to congratulate Agar3s and Ult for being better in every single facet of the game than VecoX and StillBorn.

Congratulations.
Some of us have had children that were stillborn. That has no place here.
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Unread 10 Sep 2018, 19:16   #10
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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I'd just like to congratulate Agar3s and Ult for being better in every single facet of the game than VecoX and StillBorn.

Congratulations.
How’s your new gal emoMuffin ?

Funny thing you wouldn’t have lost roids anyway
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Unread 10 Sep 2018, 23:48   #11
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

I wasn't going to bother giving this thread the time of day since I know the majority of those involved, know full well that Forests mail to CT was full of factual inaccuracies and were quietly pleased when Forests attempts at controlling multiple blocks into a war that benefits CT, blew up right in his face but here goes anyway..

First of all, calling something a backstab implies that Forest wasn't aware of the deal about to be agreed to with Ult and Co. This is simply not the case. I'll explain..

Forest was happy for CT to quietly ride the fence and attempt to benefit from the drawn out war between IB and Ult in the hope of manoeuvring CT into a position where they could win. He would say CT will hit Ult in their gal raids and we'd end up getting just as much incomings from CT (if not more on some days) than they were putting on Ult at all. After a few days of this, a separate block channel was made without Forest/CT and we continued along without them. To be clear, Forest was claiming that he was doing this behind gm's back, that he didn't have the authority to get CT fully involved and that I shouldn't speak to gm myself because he was mad that we'd hit them in gal raids earlier in the round.

Now by the time IB agreed to nap Ult and Co, we'd had incomings from 3 alliances for near on 14 days straight. Our activity was dying, we were barely launching fleets any more and due to the various politics of other alliances, there was no sign of this status quo changing any time soon. Norse had already committed to hitting us til EOR because they saw an Ultores win as them winning too. Carnage were busy kingmaking Ult by crashing red calcs on us endlessly, sapping our morale, because we were losing ships and roids regularly, even on covered defences. And this all because apparently we'd dared to attack some of them in gal raids earlier in the round when they were napped to 75% of the universe.

My fellow HC in IB were tired and looking for a way out, I was against giving up and napping Ult. I suggested that I could attempt to get CT to finally commit to hitting Ult, tying up some more enemy fleets and making some morale boosting headway into Ults roid/value lead. I explained to Forest the full situation, that we were done, we had a deal on the table to nap Ult and that their free ride was going to be over unless they decided to get involved. Forest made promises again to actually put some fleets onto Ult and claimed some targets from our shared spreadsheet. At this point, Forest was fully aware and in complete control of the situation unfolding in front of him. All he had to do was commit the fleets he said he would and our deal with Ult was dead. The next day, after receiving a fair chunk of incomings from CT ourselves, we checked how many fleets CT put onto Ult. It was 21. The same old story as it had been all round. It was at that point I gave up trying to persuade my fellow IB HC not to take the deal with Ultores, and the deal was signed to end the war.

I am still proud of what Ironborn has achieved in our first round as a full alliance even if we ultimately fell short of winning, at least we actually gave it a shot and didn't settle for planet/galaxy ranks like everyone else did. We have learned lessons and will be back next round to try all over again.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 03:27   #12
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
lots of text
When you decided to start the blockwars, Ironborn were slightly ahead of Ultores on score, we were head to head on value and roids were almost equal. your block outnumbered ours, yet we won... And you blame this on CT? Your alliance were simply not good enough despite enjoying numerical advantage...
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 03:34   #13
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

He is not blaming CT for us losing the war, that is fully our shortcoming. Rather he is saying that we needed more from CT in order to take Ultores down. That they (effectively) declined is within their rights, but Forest can't claim ignorance afterwards and act like he has been betrayed.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 09:24   #14
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
When you decided to start the blockwars, Ironborn were slightly ahead of Ultores on score, we were head to head on value and roids were almost equal. your block outnumbered ours, yet we won... And you blame this on CT? Your alliance were simply not good enough despite enjoying numerical advantage...
Numerical yes, in fleets and commitment no. You should be more thankful that carnage were willing to suicide for you and norse were so committed to you winning else things would've gone differently. It must be nice to be so arrogant and deluded to not see past the end of your own nose though.

And yes, way to read between the lines and completely miss the point, but you couldn't miss an opportunity to boast about your own superiority and shout down those who dared to challenge you.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 09:25   #15
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

Quote:
Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
I wasn't going to bother giving this thread the time of day since I know the majority of those involved, know full well that Forests mail to CT was full of factual inaccuracies and were quietly pleased when Forests attempts at controlling multiple blocks into a war that benefits CT, blew up right in his face but here goes anyway..

First of all, calling something a backstab implies that Forest wasn't aware of the deal about to be agreed to with Ult and Co. This is simply not the case. I'll explain..

Forest was happy for CT to quietly ride the fence and attempt to benefit from the drawn out war between IB and Ult in the hope of manoeuvring CT into a position where they could win. He would say CT will hit Ult in their gal raids and we'd end up getting just as much incomings from CT (if not more on some days) than they were putting on Ult at all. After a few days of this, a separate block channel was made without Forest/CT and we continued along without them. To be clear, Forest was claiming that he was doing this behind gm's back, that he didn't have the authority to get CT fully involved and that I shouldn't speak to gm myself because he was mad that we'd hit them in gal raids earlier in the round.

Now by the time IB agreed to nap Ult and Co, we'd had incomings from 3 alliances for near on 14 days straight. Our activity was dying, we were barely launching fleets any more and due to the various politics of other alliances, there was no sign of this status quo changing any time soon. Norse had already committed to hitting us til EOR because they saw an Ultores win as them winning too. Carnage were busy kingmaking Ult by crashing red calcs on us endlessly, sapping our morale, because we were losing ships and roids regularly, even on covered defences. And this all because apparently we'd dared to attack some of them in gal raids earlier in the round when they were napped to 75% of the universe.

My fellow HC in IB were tired and looking for a way out, I was against giving up and napping Ult. I suggested that I could attempt to get CT to finally commit to hitting Ult, tying up some more enemy fleets and making some morale boosting headway into Ults roid/value lead. I explained to Forest the full situation, that we were done, we had a deal on the table to nap Ult and that their free ride was going to be over unless they decided to get involved. Forest made promises again to actually put some fleets onto Ult and claimed some targets from our shared spreadsheet. At this point, Forest was fully aware and in complete control of the situation unfolding in front of him. All he had to do was commit the fleets he said he would and our deal with Ult was dead. The next day, after receiving a fair chunk of incomings from CT ourselves, we checked how many fleets CT put onto Ult. It was 21. The same old story as it had been all round. It was at that point I gave up trying to persuade my fellow IB HC not to take the deal with Ultores, and the deal was signed to end the war.

I am still proud of what Ironborn has achieved in our first round as a full alliance even if we ultimately fell short of winning, at least we actually gave it a shot and didn't settle for planet/galaxy ranks like everyone else did. We have learned lessons and will be back next round to try all over again.
A very well written piece VenoX. A good explanation of what went on behind closed doors. Care to input Forest?

But CT trying to play the fence is a normal thing for last 10+ rounds so all normal there
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 09:28   #16
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
Numerical yes, in fleets and commitment no. You should be more thankful that carnage were willing to suicide for you and norse were so committed to you winning else things would've gone differently. It must be nice to be so arrogant and deluded to not see past the end of your own nose though.

And yes, way to read between the lines and completely miss the point, but you couldn't miss an opportunity to boast about your own superiority and shout down those who dared to challenge you.
VenoX don't speak to the mighty Xerxes like that nub. When you commit yourself to the game in the same way X does then you can talk down to the almighty Xerxes !!!
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 10:28   #17
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
Numerical yes, in fleets and commitment no. You should be more thankful that carnage were willing to suicide for you and norse were so committed to you winning else things would've gone differently. It must be nice to be so arrogant and deluded to not see past the end of your own nose though.

And yes, way to read between the lines and completely miss the point, but you couldn't miss an opportunity to boast about your own superiority and shout down those who dared to challenge you.
Yep, Norse is so committed to ult they got a deal with Otters and never stopped hitting Ironborn.

But Otters wasn't committed at all to Ironborn winning because they went and got a deal with Norse plus wouldn't stop hitting ult .
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 11:42   #18
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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How’s your new gal emoMuffin ?

Funny thing you wouldn’t have lost roids anyway
Gals going pretty good. Still biggest in gal, and I'm GC now, which is nice.

How's your parole going? It's a shame you're not as good at getting consent as you are at posting shitthreads.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 11:57   #19
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Yep, Norse is so committed to ult they got a deal with Otters and never stopped hitting Ironborn.

But Otters wasn't committed at all to Ironborn winning because they went and got a deal with Norse plus wouldn't stop hitting ult .
That is not what I said. ND and you (Otters) must happily admit that you were not as active and didn't get as many fleets out as you would both have liked to, there were multiple conversations to this effect in our shared channels. I appreciate both ND/Lukes and Otters/your commitment to trying to help turn things around but for Xerxes to suggest we should've won on numbers alone is naive at best, especially from a guy of his experience. In reality, Ultores had 3 of the top 5 alliances this round backing them (and crashing for them) while the 4th top 5 alliance was fence sitting.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 12:26   #20
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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tl;dr
Forest was whinging daily about prioritising Ult in raids. The simple fact of the matter is that IB planets were significantly better targets to attack, given the terrible fleet composition of IB planets.

CT had already gone out of their way to assist you, given they're a CR based alliance attacking DE targets. I'm not sure how you can cry foul at recieving some collateral targetting in gal raids, given your planets often had 200k+ Bucc fleets, with minimal anti CR, if any at all.

You have noone to blame for your members recieving inc as part of raids on Ult heavy gals but your own members and HC/BC, for failing to assure they had a reasonably self sufficient fleet composition, instead of cheesy, one dimensional anti Ult builds.

Which HC was responsible for those fleet comps? Frankly, they should be sacked for being a mug.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 13:00   #21
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Forest was whinging daily about prioritising Ult in raids. The simple fact of the matter is that IB planets were significantly better targets to attack, given the terrible fleet composition of IB planets.

CT had already gone out of their way to assist you, given they're a CR based alliance attacking DE targets. I'm not sure how you can cry foul at recieving some collateral targetting in gal raids, given your planets often had 200k+ Bucc fleets, with minimal anti CR, if any at all.

You have noone to blame for your members recieving inc as part of raids on Ult heavy gals but your own members and HC/BC, for failing to assure they had a reasonably self sufficient fleet composition, instead of cheesy, one dimensional anti Ult builds.

Which HC was responsible for those fleet comps? Frankly, they should be sacked for being a mug.
Remind for a second...

IB choose a far weaker strat.. FR (LOL)
Ult with DE makes them so hard to roid damn it. Only DE roiding DE has a realistic chance.

Also didn't IB decide to BP with Ult as well. Like JM points out. You choose to BP with the #1 competition and then you have a poor strat....
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 13:16   #22
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
Numerical yes, in fleets and commitment no. You should be more thankful that carnage were willing to suicide for you and norse were so committed to you winning else things would've gone differently. It must be nice to be so arrogant and deluded to not see past the end of your own nose though.

And yes, way to read between the lines and completely miss the point, but you couldn't miss an opportunity to boast about your own superiority and shout down those who dared to challenge you.
Well, we are superior to you - clearly, or you would have dared to fight us 1 vs 1 when we were equal on value, score and roids. But you didn't.

As for landing red calcs, your block gambled on our def being fake all the time and suicided loads of value for both sides, it's just that our morale doesn't dip because of it.

Also, I didnt miss your point - but I enjoy winding you up a bit because you were useless in ult last round but active this round in ib.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 13:21   #23
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Also didn't IB decide to BP with Ult as well. Like JM points out. You choose to BP with the #1 competition
Oh, was it you that told Ave this bullshit? Cos he spewed this rubbish too and then couldn't tell me which BP's we shared when I asked. Maybe you can?

I wonder who came up with the tick 800 nap between Ult/IB too? That was a particularly funny one.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 13:24   #24
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Remind for a second...

IB choose a far weaker strat.. FR (LOL)
Ult with DE makes them so hard to roid damn it. Only DE roiding DE has a realistic chance.

Also didn't IB decide to BP with Ult as well. Like JM points out. You choose to BP with the #1 competition and then you have a poor strat....
I understand the principle behind them building Bucc heavy, but at some point there is no difference between 180-200k Bucc and 250-300k Bucc. By that point you're covered against DE/force them off their roids, and start building to cover other classes.

As VenoX said, Carnage were willing to land 'red calcs'. If they're still willing to land, then they're not 'red' enough, which combined with the apparant susceptibility to CR from their almost allies CT, would surely lead any Mil HC worth their salt to send out the call for more anti CR.

I'm no fanboi of Forest, trust me on that, but IB have shown to be their own worst enemy.
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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 13:26   #25
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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That is not what I said. ND and you (Otters) must happily admit that you were not as active and didn't get as many fleets out as you would both have liked to, there were multiple conversations to this effect in our shared channels. I appreciate both ND/Lukes and Otters/your commitment to trying to help turn things around but for Xerxes to suggest we should've won on numbers alone is naive at best, especially from a guy of his experience. In reality, Ultores had 3 of the top 5 alliances this round backing them (and crashing for them) while the 4th top 5 alliance was fence sitting.
Well, after consulting each other's intel pages through whatsapp - we have concluded that we both had the same ammount of incs. And my point was always that we are better than you, which is evident by the fact that you didnt fight us 1 vs 1, and that our morale doesnt drop because hostile allies land red calcs in hope of def being fake
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 13:28   #26
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
Forest was whinging daily about prioritising Ult in raids. The simple fact of the matter is that IB planets were significantly better targets to attack, given the terrible fleet composition of IB planets.
Yes we were weak against CR, as your CR strat makes you weak against almost everything. Who was responsible for your strat exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
CT had already gone out of their way to assist you, given they're a CR based alliance attacking DE targets. I'm not sure how you can cry foul at recieving some collateral targetting in gal raids, given your planets often had 200k+ Bucc fleets, with minimal anti CR, if any at all.
It's obvious to me that you were not playing CR in a CR ally, since CT didn't land CR on us after what, tick 250? Yes our strat meant we had anti-CR late but after that you didn't touch us, regardless of how much you kept trying while Forest was "hitting ult".

Yes CT assistance was great, thats why we've had 500 incs from CT this round vs the 350 you put on Ultores according to the intel Xerxes just shared with me. It just goes to support everything I've said so far about Forest/CT and completely vindicates our decision to end the war.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 13:36   #27
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
As VenoX said, Carnage were willing to land 'red calcs'. If they're still willing to land, then they're not 'red' enough
How do you suggest making calcs more red than 1:3 losses during nights of 150+ incs. I would guess that CT/you don't know what actual incomings looks like or you never tried to DC a day in your life. These were not red or marginal calcs, these were complete attack crashes any which way you looked at it. At first it is funny, people enjoyed sharing the battle reports but after a week of it, it becomes pretty tiring when regardless of how good your defence is, you lose roids and ships to attacks that shouldn't be landing at all. We currently have over 300k CR in ally, none of which has been built by us, it's purely steals from Carnage (and some CT probably).
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 13:41   #28
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
I understand the principle behind them building Bucc heavy, but at some point there is no difference between 180-200k Bucc and 250-300k Bucc. By that point you're covered against DE/force them off their roids, and start building to cover other classes.
There's a second class that Buccs hit for which you may need more than just 200k y'know...

And when there's a Cr crash on it's not only value we lose - our Ziks frequently lost 80% of their Pirate and stole useless Cr.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 14:26   #29
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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There's a second class that Buccs hit for which you may need more than just 200k y'know...

And when there's a Cr crash on it's not only value we lose - our Ziks frequently lost 80% of their Pirate and stole useless Cr.
Seriously, your block crashed just as much on us so stop complaining
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 14:31   #30
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
Yes we were weak against CR, as your CR strat makes you weak against almost everything. Who was responsible for your strat exactly?
The point I'm trying to make is, you were only weak against CR because you allowed yourselves to be, and as a result of that, have noone but yourselves to blame for attracting more incs on IB planets than Ult, in Ult heavy gals.

I'd also have to disagree with the CR strat being weak againsy almost everything. The only thing 'we' (keeping in mind I'm not a HC or official representative of CT) struggled with was DE incs for one day, which was swiftly rectified by HC being humble enough to aknowledge they'd overlooked some potential vulnerabilities, and adressed it with updating build orders that same day. CT were also vulnerable to CR inc themselves, but solved that problem politicially.

That's the crux of where you've gone wrong IMO, or at least one of the ways. From a fleet perspective, CT and alliances like them adapted, while IB doubled down and kept beating their head against the brick wall. Politically, Carnage, CT et al buddied up with alliances they'd struggle against, while IB buddied up with an alliance that was Cat/Xan CO based, which is utterly udeless against your opposition. On s3cond thought, not only should your Mil HC be sacked, your political HC should too. Who was responsible for these decisions?

As for who was responsible for my allies strat, I can't say, as I wasn't there when it was decided. Needless to say, you will never see my chosing an ally strat which revolves around a single target TT+3 EMP ship, and a Ziko class where the 2 tick def shoots first. But hey, I chose Ter based on BS, so I'm not infallible.

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It's obvious to me that you were not playing CR in a CR ally, since CT didn't land CR on us after what, tick 250? Yes our strat meant we had anti-CR late but after that you didn't touch us, regardless of how much you kept trying while Forest was "hitting ult".
I'm not sure if this is adressed to me as an individual, but to adress your first statement, I can't help but compliment you for your insight. Yes, you are correct in your observation that I wasn't playing CR, given I joined CT after tick start and Terran also don't have CR pods.

As for CT not landing you after pt250: Now I know you probably won't believe it, given your somewhat paranoid perspective regarding ancillary incs on Ult gal raids, but CT didn't target you after pt250. We spent a good 300 ticks actively avoiding initiating hostilities with almost every alliance, resulting in some very lacklustre targets, and after that point attacked either Ult gals, or forts of alliances which had hit us heavily the day before. At all times, IB targets were not available other than one or two planets across multiple gals.

Now that may not fit with your perspective of CT targetting you foremost while pretending to hit Ult, but it is fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
Yes CT assistance was great, thats why we've had 500 incs from CT this round vs the 350 you put on Ultores according to the intel Xerxes just shared with me. It just goes to support everything I've said so far about Forest/CT and completely vindicates our decision to end the war.
No. All ot shows is thst Ult actually have a leadership and memberbase which is incapable of composing politics/fleets that deter incs. You built shit fleets and performed shit politics, all of which culminated in you recieving more incs from CT than they sent at Ult, even while actively targetting Ult. Forest was quite clearly pro IB the entire round, yet through your own failures as a leadership team and alliance, you've managed to construe the total opposite, and turned on one of your few allies.

Taking this as vindication for your final decision to nap Ult and turn on CT supports only one thing, and that is that you/IB have made a monumental cock up that in one fell swoop has managed to throw away any chance of a round win this round, alienated one of your few and strongest allies this round, turned them off you for future rounds, and shown yourselves to not be trustworthy in the future.

Frankly, IB members should be absolutely ****ing filthy at their HC team, and the people responsible for these countless cockups need to put their hand up and aknowledge that they're absolutely useless/inept.
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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?

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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 14:36   #31
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
How do you suggest making calcs more red than 1:3 losses during nights of 150+ incs. I would guess that CT/you don't know what actual incomings looks like or you never tried to DC a day in your life. These were not red or marginal calcs, these were complete attack crashes any which way you looked at it. At first it is funny, people enjoyed sharing the battle reports but after a week of it, it becomes pretty tiring when regardless of how good your defence is, you lose roids and ships to attacks that shouldn't be landing at all. We currently have over 300k CR in ally, none of which has been built by us, it's purely steals from Carnage (and some CT probably).
Cover the wave properly or don't cover it at all. You'd understand this principle if at any stage throughout your PA history you'd spent time as a DC, and not just a figurehead gloryboy stroking off his own ego by being the head honcho of politics.
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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 14:39   #32
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
There's a second class that Buccs hit for which you may need more than just 200k y'know...

And when there's a Cr crash on it's not only value we lose - our Ziks frequently lost 80% of their Pirate and stole useless Cr.
Judging by the numbers IB built them, it must have been CR. As for Pirates, lol.

You sure you were even looking at this round's stats?
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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 14:49   #33
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

Ah why did I even bother responding to a troll.

Xerxes: I'm not complaining about the crashes themselves, though there is a difference between crashing on one of our four ships vs two of your three - that's a strength of your strat - but it hurts more than usual when you're Zik.

Your block was stronger than ours, and yes, that's including the lead alliance. I don't see anyone deny that.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 14:56   #34
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

Minions please..

Many mistakes have been made this round, politically and otherwise. Now not much of that matters.
From Ults POV:

1. Otters were the most hostile and the best attacking alliance.
2. ND/DLR were totally outmatched due to strat choice and did not have the proper fleets to go into a war.
3. CT was always going to play both sides if they were trying to win, they play to their own strengths.
4. IB neglected to see past Ult, even when it had been obvious for long that you couldn't roid us. So after you napped us, you could only properly roid Otters with those fleets.

In short, IB (ab)used and killed multiple alliances this round that were not ready for a war with over eager blocking. I am not saying they weren't willing, but they sure weren't ready. Now IB could have easily continued on the path they were on and let other allies prepare for the war and gain more advantages before going in. But you didnt, 600 ticks from the end you started a war with an alliance that untill then had 0 DC activity, being overly confident cause you landed some waves when there was no one to send defense.

PS: Ofcourse Xerx will feel superior, this is one of the weakest political moves he has ever seen from an alliance trying to beat Ult.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 14:56   #35
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Seriously, your block crashed just as much on us so stop complaining
They were crashing on me at tick 130 for 350k losses, to which VenoX responded 'who cares/big deal' or something similar. Frankly, it's testament to the culture of IB and it's HC, IMO. Not really a strong culture to have in an alliance if you're crashing from the get go, eh?

Perhaps some critical reflection is in order, instead of blaming everyone else for their failures? TBH, it stinks of Narcissism.
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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 15:04   #36
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Ah why did I even bother responding to a troll.
Play a stupid game, win a stupid prize.

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Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 17:52   #37
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

Good post to explain situation by Venox.


I'd like to add that yes, we made some strategical mistake when taking on Ult. But neither myself or Venox have much experience leading an alliance of our own. We learn from those mistakes, we move on, and we will be back stronger and wiser.


Let's not forget as well that Ult did receive defense from Norse and Asta; a luxury that we did not have, and we have handled between 150 and 200 incs ourselves very finely. We were certainly on point defensively and we can see this as a successful part of our round.



Muffin, keep your mouth shut until you come back down from c200.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 18:05   #38
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

Quite a bit of bullshit here but just to add to what Venox said.

Yes you laid it down on the line for me but I then presented you with a plan for you to win, that also gave CT a chance, and would have been a 5-way fight in the last 3 days between Ult/IB/CT/Norse/Carn.
And you led me to believe that I would have time to action that plan.

It would have worked.

At the end of the day, I was always completely open with you about my intentions to try and win, I made that very clear.

The way I see it, CT as an alliance could never have won this round, we lacked in certain, important areas. We took hardly any naps and attacked who we wanted, when we wanted. That isn't fencing, we faced way more random incs as well. We were open to attacks from all sides.

But through careful military, targetting and politics, we got ourselves into a position where we could have won if things had fallen for us, without having a block behind us.

IB were the opposite. They had the skills, players and a big block behind them and chose to forget the win and nap for an easy two weeks. No alliance I have any say in will ever do that, I don't see the point.

Things changed for us when you handed the win to Ult, but I know which alliance I would rather play for.

I am damn proud of CT and nothing will change that. We played our hand, we went for the win, and we did it without a block behind us.

People keep throwing this 'omg you are fencing' thing at me, but I would prefer no blocks, as I always make clear.

I have done the block thing and owned pa, it is dull and boring.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 18:28   #39
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

Generally most people who try for a win with a weaker alliance fail.

But you generally have the choice between an easy round and coasting in an ordinary position or taking a risk. For me taking a risk may be futile but if you do pull it off its a pretty good achievement. And you will always have people criticising this and that, but they are mainly those who lack the creativity to even get things set up in the first place and maybe don't appreciate that ****ing things up is pretty much guaranteed in hindsight. Not a reference to this thread, but just my experience.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 18:51   #40
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

Quote:
Forest was whinging daily about prioritising Ult in raids.
As someone who knows absolutely nothing about what's going on (what the **** am I doing on AD?), this seems to me like the missing link between VenoX' point of view and Forest's:

Forest tries his best to get CT members to do what he said they would do, but when they instead choose the course of action that's best for their planets (ie, hitting down), he's powerless to change it. Your homework for the day: why?

Then, when CT's reluctance to hit Ultores becomes clear, Venox, overestimating Forest's influence in/over CT, sees them failing or refusing to follow up on the promises they had made by mouth of Forest, assumes they are (or he personally is) acting malicously, which he considers a valid reason to pull out of the agreement as well, seeing as it had already fallen apart.

However, Forest doesn't see it as having fallen apart, he's hard at work trying to keep to the deal. He's suddenly faced with IB pulling out, interprets this as a backstab, and that makes him write the mail quoted in the OP.

PA politics. PA politics never changes.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 19:51   #41
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

Spot on.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 20:02   #42
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by ChroNOS View Post

Muffin, keep your mouth shut until you come back down from c200.
Keep my mouth shut until I come down from top 10 you mean?

Keep your mouth shut until you learn how to play the game, random.

Actually, who are you, do you even play PA?
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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?

Last edited by [JungleMuffin]; 11 Sep 2018 at 20:56.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 20:43   #43
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
As someone who knows absolutely nothing about what's going on (what the **** am I doing on AD?), this seems to me like the missing link between VenoX' point of view and Forest's:

Forest tries his best to get CT members to do what he said they would do, but when they instead choose the course of action that's best for their planets (ie, hitting down), he's powerless to change it. Your homework for the day: why?

Then, when CT's reluctance to hit Ultores becomes clear, Venox, overestimating Forest's influence in/over CT, sees them failing or refusing to follow up on the promises they had made by mouth of Forest, assumes they are (or he personally is) acting malicously, which he considers a valid reason to pull out of the agreement as well, seeing as it had already fallen apart.

However, Forest doesn't see it as having fallen apart, he's hard at work trying to keep to the deal. He's suddenly faced with IB pulling out, interprets this as a backstab, and that makes him write the mail quoted in the OP.

PA politics. PA politics never changes.
He wasn't powerless to stop members 'hitting down'. The morning of the political shift he went on a rant (which was ultimately the straw thst broke the camels back and resulted in my move to c200) about hitting Ult and hence forth going to PT them, after I had attempted to escort some lowbies on an Otters.

As history has shown, IB lacked the steadfastness and longevity to allow that to come to fruition, clearly, because they were desperate. That isn't CT's failure, it is IB's.

CT weren't reluctant to hit Ult. I myself had begun to hit Ult by that point, after avoiding both Ult and IB where possible. People were more than happy to hit Ult, they were doing so already, unfortunately IB were much more attractive targets. If IB didn't want us to target their lone planets in gal raids, perhaps they should have made strides to remove the flashing neon sign that said 'free roids here', through either adjusting fleet comps, or getting on top of politics.

It is the responsibility of IB planets to ensure their fleet comps are decent enough to deter incs on gal raids directed everywhere except towards IB planets. It's not Forest's responsibility to talk our members down from free roids.

If IB wanted no CT incs whatsoever, they should have arranged a NAP. CT was already doing their dirty work for them.

IB's actions reek of desparation, and in that desparation they've managed to cut their nose off to spite their face. Not only that, but they've done so for several rounds into the future.
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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?

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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 21:25   #44
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
He wasn't powerless to stop members 'hitting down'. The morning of the political shift he went on a rant (which was ultimately the straw thst broke the camels back and resulted in my move to c200) about hitting Ult and hence forth going to PT them, after I had attempted to escort some lowbies on an Otters.
From the outside looking in, I would say if Forest wasn't powerless, he was obviously unwilling, or at the very least not willing enough to enforce his promises. And that contradicts VenoX's claim that Forest 'promised' to commit more to hitting Ult at that time.

From past experience with both VenoX and Forest, and the uncontested claims VenoX made about incoming CT fleets to both IB and Ult, I'm more inclined to side with VenoX on this one.


Personally, had I made a 'promise' about committing to hit Ult, I would not have put up IB targets. Especially when considering target/strategy compatibility, and ults reputation as a defensive powerhouse. Then again, ranting at your members when they don't comply with the 'promises' that he made out of their purview sure sounds like true commitment!
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 21:44   #45
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by VenoX View Post
Carnage were busy kingmaking Ult by crashing red calcs on us endlessly, sapping our morale, because we were losing ships and roids regularly, even on covered defences. And this all because apparently we'd dared to attack some of them in gal raids earlier in the round when they were napped to 75% of the universe.
We had 0 naps when we entered the round. Then the bombing started from u, vgn, ult and otters. Ofc we were fat too, had a good start which was to be expected with CR strat. Atleast you and VGN seemed to coordinate, since u never hit the same places.

The 4 alliances inc killed our lead and we went napping in order to direct inc back at you. But that had little to no effect.

You avoided or napped all DE alliances, had napped all co tags. Took nap from HR. Theres the 75% back at you

I dont mind 440 incs if u come alone, but u didnt, nor u were hitting anyone else really as you wanted to fight strategy that suits u. So dont give me any gal raid stories. I don't keep it as personal, but I neither can let u walk away with it.

Yes we did kingmake Ult, but out of our own interests. We crashed a few by purpose, as u couldnt rebuild the BS. Most we crashed due to work and life and stuff like that Something we never wanted to happen ofc. We are bold but not stupid.

If you want guidance, don't give me "block inc" and then ask for support for the win. As a future lesson You let the best tag grow in peace for 600 ticks. While half the universe has perfect strategy to land them early on. We did, you could have also, instead of making an effort to damage us.

Respect for eventually going for the win tho, as I said, didnt see it coming, so you have come far.

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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 21:45   #46
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by Wouter View Post
From Ults POV:

1. Otters were the most hostile and the best attacking alliance.
Heh, thanks for that, reads nicely - but unfortunately we are paying hard for this now.

Credits to Kheros and Team, was a pleasure flying for you and securing your members dont get demotivated with the round and all the incs they had.

Congratz on your rank achievement,i´d be freaking proud if i only was a member of your heroic alliance (good name fitting aswell).

cya next round
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 21:49   #47
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post

Personally, had I made a 'promise' about committing to hit Ult, I would not have put up IB targets. Especially when considering target/strategy compatibility, and ults reputation as a defensive powerhouse. Then again, ranting at your members when they don't comply with the 'promises' that he made out of their purview sure sounds like true commitment!
The night before we joined on ult, IB sent a shed load at us. I was quite upfront at all times that I wouldn't avoid IB because of that.
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Unread 11 Sep 2018, 23:38   #48
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
The night before we joined on ult, IB sent a shed load at us. I was quite upfront at all times that I wouldn't avoid IB because of that.
That would make sense for a day or 2, but any longer and it would certainly seem asif you were playing both sides, whilst your memberbase chose Ults side (for fair tactical reasons).

From VenoX' story, however, it seems to me this lasted for a longer period, after which a renewed commitment was asked to focus on Ult. Supposedly you were then 'explained' there was a possible end to war coming, unless that commitment was solid. Apparently you still gave such a promise, yet failed to deliver. As such, crying wolf and calling IB out on backstabbing is a fair stretch from the actual events.

Once again, this is outside (far far outside) looking in. In fact all I based my previous post on was this thread, and past experiences with the both of you.

P.S. I don't comdemn playing both sides in CT's apparent situation. It was likely your only (remote) shot at winning. This thread just seems a bit of a stretch tho.


P.P.S. (edit): An eye for an eye makes the world go blind, or in this case gives Ult another (easy) win.
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Unread 12 Sep 2018, 09:16   #49
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
From the outside looking in, I would say if Forest wasn't powerless, he was obviously unwilling, or at the very least not willing enough to enforce his promises. And that contradicts VenoX's claim that Forest 'promised' to commit more to hitting Ult at that time
The argument that CT was consistantly putting more waves on the one or two IB available on raids is horseshit. It might have happened as a once or twice off, if at all, but that would be about the full extent of it. Anyone claiming otherwise is being disingenuous to suit their agenda.

From my own observations in this thread and elsewhere, it certainly appears as if IB were looking to turn on CT at the first available opportunity, given they were being substantially beaten by Ult on roid count, and saw CT as a free meal.

IB revoking their agreement to work alongside CT before CT had exhausted all of their options, is a reflection on IB's lack of commitment, not CT/Forest. The only accusation that IB can make towards CT/Forest is that the options available weren't utilised fast enough, which again, reeks of desperation.

This isn't a case of CT being unwilling or unable to uphold their end of the bargain, it is a case of IB essentially giving CT an ultimatum of declaring all out war on Ult, and then turning on them when it didn't happen fast enough. That is weak, bully boy politics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post
From past experience with both VenoX and Forest, and the uncontested claims VenoX made about incoming CT fleets to both IB and Ult, I'm more inclined to side with VenoX on this one
From past experience of spending multiple rounds in every alliance VenoX has HC'd, including BP'ing with him, I would be very reluctant to take his claims at face value. He is a person that will put on a great facade to your face, while being venomous when he can remain anonymous. Hence the name, Venomous X. Forest on the other hand, is about as forthright as myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post
Personally, had I made a 'promise' about committing to hit Ult, I would not have put up IB targets. Especially when considering target/strategy compatibility, and ults reputation as a defensive powerhouse. Then again, ranting at your members when they don't comply with the 'promises' that he made out of their purview sure sounds like true commitment!
As you're probably able to figure out by now, CT's strategy appears to have been one step short of declaring all out war on alliances at that point in the round. Removing all other targets from raids and PTargetting Ult is doing just that, declaring war.

Forest made a statement regarding being worried about being left holding the baby if and when CT did chose to go all in on Ult. As we've seen, those fears were well placed, given IB's decision to turn on CT at the first available opportunity.
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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Can people please stop pretending they have no chance of winning at tick 300, you just end up looking retarded later.
^^^^ Can you blv that sh*t?

Last edited by [JungleMuffin]; 12 Sep 2018 at 09:26.
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Unread 12 Sep 2018, 11:50   #50
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Re: The Ironborn Backstab

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post

P.P.S. (edit): An eye for an eye makes the world go blind, or in this case gives Ult another (easy) win.
Or avoidance of 600 ticks 😊
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