Tomorrow

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

beyond a sign post saying: "there's the enemy, they're foreigners, go and kill them?

Propaganda doesn't really work like that as I'm sure you know.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Whilst there can be no doubt that the Nazis were vicious murderers, it shouldn't take too long to point the finger at US Jim Crow Laws, The European Empires and the subsequent brutal half century of Cold War. Go and tell the African people they are better off that Hitler didn't win, go and tell the people of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia and Indonesia, and Latin and South America, the Indians, the Chinese, the Palestinians, the Indiginous poeple of Australia, America and Columbia, the Kurds, the Armenians. Tell them what a ****ing great time they should be having because we fought for our freedom and spent the rest of the century ****ing them in the arse.

So the Nazis were vicious murderers, but we might have been a bit dodgy at some points as well - possibly - so who can really say?

[Marilyn Manson]

Were Maths teachers seen to be inherently subversive, and thus a safe career for 'undesirables', or something?

[Dante Hicks]

I think calling the British / American / etc conduct "a bit dodgy" is a slight understatement.

However, I would say that it's quite possible to seperate the actions of British & Allied servicemen (the vast majority who would have been from working class backgrounds) and the later (or earlier) actions of the British / American elites. It seems slightly unfair (and bizarre) to blame a coal miner who signed up (for whatever reasons) to fight the Germans and got killed on D-Day for, say, the oppression of the Kurds or whatever.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

But this thread isn't about a criticism of the Nazi's but shameless backslapping and self-adulaiton

I don't think anyone really mentioned much of the political context of the thing until Nusselt started going off it, and it was required. So I don't really see how it's "shameless backslapping" to just ask for reflections on a particular historical event.

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Are you saying 'well we were better than the Nazi's'? Is that where we are now?

I'm just pleased that we were an awful lot better than the Nazis, (And Communism for that matter.) and we managed to win. I don't think there's anything in that which seeks totally whitewash the present system; I probably don't agree that it's as bad as you do, though.

[KoeN]

Originally Posted by skiddy

No, I didn't mention them as they Jewistan is not a country who lost people. It's a religion. Many people of the Jewish faith died, you can see their resting place marked with a star as opposed to a cross in the American Cemetary at Omaha Beach.

I didn't mention Poland as the Polish troops who fought we're attached to the armies of the USA, Britain and Canada - which isn't a difficult deduction as the only Armed Forces who took part were German, American, British and Canadian. Sure, their forces were supplemented by other armed forces, but history records each of the five beaches as being taken by either American, Canadian or British.

I win.

edit - just before someone comes back with "Well the Polish defended Poland with their army..."

a - No they didn't.

the Polish army did *try* to defend their country with their army. they mainly had oldschool cavalry though, wasn't a real match against tanks.

and i've been at the American cemetary a few years ago. nice grass. too bad you forgot the Jews though.