Planetarion Forums

Ladybug · 16 Oct 2003, 03:16

I am coming to forums to start this thread for Spinner. I have been pondering all day on how I could help him in his situation. Needless to say I'm pretty upset over hearing he's had to use all of his money when he sold planetarion to Jolt and has yet to be paid for his efforts and skill. I'm very disappointed in a company that does not live up to what they committed to and here a man is losing everything because of it.

I am starting a Spinner Foundation and hoping that all will help in an efforts to decide what we can do for this man that brought us a game and a community to grow from it.. If Jolt deletes this thread I will have urls sorted with this same info so we can help in anyway possible.

I'm editing this atm only because I have sat and thought about all of the ideas that came to me. We will be discussing what would be the most appropriate matter to give Spinner for his retirement on Planetarion. Many suggestions came to me and I must say their all impressive. So we will not rush into any matters atm til we all decide what is best to do from us to him and the rest of the creators.

I came to planetarion and played for 7 rounds now. I have become friends to many many people in this game and I am still friends with many of them. I have seen many of my friends leave this game and I'm very fortunate that I have contact with many of them still. He has created a community no matter how much war we create in the game and on netgamers we all became a community and friends in many levels. Some even enemies but we have had a blast and learned much in this game about values, uniting and standing. I have enjoyed this game thoroughly.

The channel we created is #Spinner on netgamers. Please all join and have fun. I will make a post or another hc will follow up after we meet to decide what is the appropriate matter in what we want to do for showing our appreciation.

Ladybug
Seraphim HC

Zahadum · 16 Oct 2003, 03:20

Spinner deserves this he's poured his heart and soul into this game and has created a wonderful community of players. Its time for us to give back to all the effort and hard work Spinner has put into Planetarion. We are asking for any donations possible. Our hearts and prayers go out to you Spinner and your family.

rshih · 16 Oct 2003, 03:21

Yay! Go lb, I'd pay.. but I'm too young to have a credit card or I wouldn't have leeched the last like 5 paid rounds =p.

Eventh · 16 Oct 2003, 03:26

Im a student with not much money, but i'll gladly donate 20 $ to spinner as a thanks for the 3 years of playing planetarion..

bmwoody · 16 Oct 2003, 03:30

Ladybug, you are an amazing person! I'm very thankful to Spinner for making Planetarion so I could meet you and all my other friends in this community. I'll do anything I can to help Spinner, and I'm glad that you're giving me and others such a chance.

W · 16 Oct 2003, 03:31

Hint: Get accurate records of what money Spinner has and hasn't gotten first. He's been talking about losing his house and getting a real job for over 2 years. I worked in the original PAcrew so I'm not completely ignorant here, and I wasn't even willing to pay to play pa, simply because who the money would go to.

Just a heads up. I also discourage giving money to drug addicts begging on the street, even if they say they are gonna use it for the bus/coffee/food. Give it to the red cross or something instead, so people who really need it can get it.

Ladybug · 16 Oct 2003, 03:41

After all he's done and created for us it's the least we can do even if it's $5. He's put his heart and soul into this and god knows I have met some pretty wonderful people playing this game. It's something that I feel the need to do.

Thank you for the kind words. Now let's do our share =)

AzureWrath · 16 Oct 2003, 03:48

This is a great idea and would be a nice gesture to the man who gave me the best online multiplayer experience that I've ever had.

Life wont be the same without PA!

WebAngel · 16 Oct 2003, 03:50

Count me in...

Hexy · 16 Oct 2003, 03:57

Make sure you find out about a fee for currency exchange.. get the best deal "free" is nice..hehehe i will gladly send some american dead presidents to contribute... Id also like to remind anyone that reads this and thinks.. why should I.... if you ever had the chance to meet so many globally wonderful people.. have some fun.. and of course frustrations.. sharing great moments in your lives.. and also sharing sadness... all of this is greatly attributed to the PA community.. and the President/Prime Minsiter/Grand Poobah of this community is Spinner himself. So I say dont buy that coffee for a week... or dont buy that pack of cigarettes for a day.. and ToT dont buy that extra case of beer for a night :tongue: give back to the one that gave to us.

Thank you LadyBug for doing the hard part of the task..the easy part is for us to send to you.

Hexy

Queen DAX · 16 Oct 2003, 04:07

very nice idea Ladybug

Cochese · 16 Oct 2003, 04:24

I'll gladly do whatever I can.

Don_Juan · 16 Oct 2003, 04:38

I must say...
Spinner is Pa
Pa is Spinner
I must give a personalt thx to Spinner too, I have played this game since r1 now... and I really have had alot of fun... Life wont be the same without PA...
*snufs*
Well I will also give Spinner this, our favourite mascot

Don_Juan sad PA player

Blazde · 16 Oct 2003, 05:17

How about... using the money to sue jolt for what they owe Spinner.

I don't think Spinner's about to die of hunger, and I'm sure he'll have no problems finding a proper job and a good living. Jolt on the other hand, shouldn't be allowed to get away without honouring their contract with him/Fudge.

Legator · 16 Oct 2003, 07:01

ill advertise it in vision

Cochese · 16 Oct 2003, 07:04

Conversely, we could raise money and buy Planetarion from Jolt.

Let that stew for a bit.

Legator · 16 Oct 2003, 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochese

Conversely, we could raise money and buy Planetarion from Jolt.

Let that stew for a bit.

and who hosts it ?

Cochese · 16 Oct 2003, 07:17

Not Jolt :tongue:

Legator · 16 Oct 2003, 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochese

Not Jolt :tongue:

we could try me, my dsl only DISconnects a few seconds every 24 hours ;-)

Ladybug · 16 Oct 2003, 07:49

LOL great and then we have to slap you around to make you stay awake. :P

Andy_r · 16 Oct 2003, 08:16

I think the ideal outcome would be for Jolt to pay Spinner.

The PA community does have considerable leverage here, since the administration and bank charges invovled in contesting a credit card transaction is huge.

If Jolt knew that 1000 of us were going to contest our credit card payments for this round on the grounds that the product is not of merchantable quality, I'm sure they would be forced to back down and pay Spinner what they owe him.

Even if (and it's a big if) the user agreement does technically protect them, the paperwork, bank charges and probably removal of their credit card payment system by the bank would probably be enough to kill the company.

Kal · 16 Oct 2003, 08:27

Ladybug: will u be accepting paypal?

Ladybug · 16 Oct 2003, 08:39

I will investigate more into paypal later in the day I have lots to sort out before then. So until all hc come to an agreement on how we are going to do this so it works for everyone and goes to him directly then we will not disclose anything til then.

The_Fish · 16 Oct 2003, 09:41

I'll send some of my cash of xure...

berten · 16 Oct 2003, 09:49

fs i'm bankrupt as it is :s

i'll try to look into it tough :d

nice work ladybug

Remy · 16 Oct 2003, 10:07

Get real peeps.

Spinner is a great guy, but it was his own choices. And furthermore, since r5 its a paying game.

No1 forced him to invest money of his own.

BTW: Spinner, i thank for all your efforts

The_Fish · 16 Oct 2003, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remy

Get real peeps.

Spinner is a great guy, but it was his own choices. And furthermore, since r5 its a paying game.

No1 forced him to invest money of his own.

BTW: Spinner, i thank for all your efforts

no-one is demanding you give him some money, if you dont want to, dont, but **** off out of the thread please ta.

Hicks · 16 Oct 2003, 10:41

If I donate a penny can Spinner buy himself a clue and admit that PAX is useless, that he's sold an inferior incomplete product and that he alone has stuffed up Planetarion ? To be honest I've heard the "I'm going to lose my house" one too many times now it seems an excuse for incompetence but if you want to believe it and let him off for 3 years of it.

About Cochese's idea, and the hosting issue, ask Ado how much it costs, I'm under the impression it's hardly a huge amount, the players owning Planetarion in trust and appointing someone to develop it is one of the few ways forward from here although asking for concenus on that is like asking for rain in the Sahara

Andy_r I doubt 1000 of you clowns contesting credit card payments would be enough to collapse Jolt, in fact I doubt your capable of organising a 1000 clowns to contest credit card payments since your one of the people who should be squarely blamed for PA Xs failure (Beta testers who accepted the beta and told Spinner it was the best thing in the world, rather than point out the gapping flaws). If you did actually manage to collapse Jolt you'd be hurting European online gaming in a huge way but I'm sure you could live with hurting the enjoyment of tens of thousands of people so that someone who's done much the same can get paid. How about I donate you a penny to.

I've said it before and shockingly I'll say it again while I sympathise with Spinner's situation it's entirely of his own making I'm sure over the years enough people have told Spinner that the only way he can really make money is to get a real job and run Planetarion part time as the creators of so many other online games do, I mean what exactly does Spinner do in the days ? The time it takes him to get online when there's a problem suggests he isn't locked and loaded at a keyboard, in fact I'd not be surprised if he had has another job already. Let me put this another way I loved Half Life it gave me years of enjoyment and participation in one of the best communities I've ever been in but if Gabe Newell (That is his name right ?) goes bankrupt I don't feel I need to send him some money to make it better I paid him my dues when I bought the game just like I paid Spinner my dues when I bought his game round after round, when I clicked banners tick after tick, when I got friends to play, when I bought people accounts.

Ladybug you are far far too nice and good luck to you all.

Remy · 16 Oct 2003, 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Fish

no-one is demanding you give him some money, if you dont want to, dont, but **** off out of the thread please ta.

Hehe, aren't we friendly :-)

I decide if i go off the thread, not you :-)

As i said, Spinner did a great job, and it was his choice to invest money. I appreciate all his work, of course, but a fund to get Spinner through the winter .... Nah.

If ppl feel the urge to fund Spinner, thats their own free choice. I was merely stating the fact that Sinner did it himself. And as for Jolt not paying him, that sux. Maybe spinner wud have more use of a good lawyer, in stead of a few bucks...

masochist · 16 Oct 2003, 10:54

i paid 10 accounts this round. pa/ pa crew will never get anything from me anymore.

Koyochi · 16 Oct 2003, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legator

and who hosts it ?

Let the alliances themselves host it. All big alliances have webhosts/webservers and techies already, and I dont think any HC is charging their members for it. Let spinner create some kind of decentralised version of the game, where every alliance provides the bandwidth and game interface for their players only (a few hundred at max per host, so no proffesional stuff needed). Dont put the alliances into the game , put the game into the alliances. They helped made the game big anyway.

(ok its a lot more complicated than this, and I once wrote 3 pages about this to describe how it should all work, but never finished it...)

Remy · 16 Oct 2003, 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyochi

Let spinner create some kind of decentralised version of the game....

Hehe, Spinner won't do anything, he... is... no... longer... part... of... pa....

AndroX · 16 Oct 2003, 12:29

This idea is one of the idea's more people seem to have.
I came to the conclusion its idd one hell of an idea and a nice suggestion to Spinner aswell.

Cant some1 set up an N.V. where we all donate some money, this way you dont pay to much money transfers and the little tax we pay is less the the banktransfers cost. That way the ammount is higher. Als a company bankaccount has higher interest ratio's. So might be an idea that doesnt cost to much work. And this idea also makes it easier to track all the money. So none is spend a wrong way or a way its not meant to be spend. We could even hand the account to Spinner itself so he can do with it what he wants. (probably buy a new washing machine

)

Just a thought. If more is known .. Ill be happy to do my part of the donation.

AndroX out.

W · 16 Oct 2003, 12:32

Short comment: What if Spinner rejects the offer? Do you take the cost of sending everyone their money back? How do people know that you won't cheat them? Why not just contact Spinner and have him give you his paypal details so everyone can donate directly to him if they really want to?

In short, are you doing this just for the fame and trying to look good? It doesn't sound very thought trough to me.

Gayle29uk · 16 Oct 2003, 12:33

I kinda quit rather suddenly as PAX was starting (real life stuff) but the 18 months PA was a huge part of my life are worth giving something back to the man who made it all possible. Especially if it's payable via paypal.

Gayle29uk · 16 Oct 2003, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by W

Short comment: What if Spinner rejects the offer? Do you take the cost of sending everyone their money back? How do people know that you won't cheat them? Why not just contact Spinner and have him give you his paypal details so everyone can donate directly to him if they really want to?

That makes a certain amount of sense.

Quote:

In short, are you doing this just for the fame and trying to look good? It doesn't sound very thought trough to me.

I don't think that does though. Ladybug isn't an attention whore, I just think she genuinely thinks this is something worth doing.

Ohm · 16 Oct 2003, 12:41

http://skatt.bt.no/

Spinner makes money, only a little less than previous years.....

He had 10 times higher income than me last year.

only one thing can boost this game....make it FREE !!!

AllFather|away · 16 Oct 2003, 12:47

Im in dire need of some drinking money.
How´s about setting up an account for me,and all of you monkeyturds put in a certain ammount of cash to it (lets say $50).

In return i promise to spend it all on myself and i wont laugh (to mutch) about spinner beeing broke

Ohm · 16 Oct 2003, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllFather|away

Im in dire need of some drinking money.
How´s about setting up an account for me,and all of you monkeyturds put in a certain ammount of cash to it (lets say $50).

In return i promise to spend it all on myself and i wont laugh (to mutch) about spinner beeing broke

Please write more, you make me smile....

SystemShock · 16 Oct 2003, 12:52

I kinda agree with Hicks here. If only Spinner had listened to all the complaints we posted on beta forums ... The part about him 'loosing his house' etc is overused now. But Jolt aren't saints either. Frankly, this sounds as good as a scam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hicks

STuff.

Do you even have that many pennies?

Billy No Mates · 16 Oct 2003, 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ladybug

Ladybug
Seraphim HC

I am happy to send some money but it might be better to set up a PO Box for Spinner in Norway where we can send money? For all I know, you could be a Lithuanian.

If Spinner get enough capital out of this, he could invest in a new on-line game :eek:

Bashar · 16 Oct 2003, 13:21

I have my reservations about this idea. I do not deny that Spinner has put a lot in, and does deserve to have/have had some form of return from it, however, to me, this seems to be a bunch of people climbing on the "Spinner is leaving and is wonderful" bandwagon without much real thought.

The first problem I see is the fact that this is all being done for Spinner. I am holding nothing against Spinner here, and not saying he is undeserving, I do not know enough to be able to pass judgement on this, however I would like to point out a few other names here. Vish, Oreo, Zeus, Prince (I know he was sacked and abused his position, however again it is not really my place to pass judgement on his level of deserving), Kloopy and of course fudge. Now these people ALL put lots into PA. They all lost out through it. I know for a fact that Kloopy and Prince never saw a penny for their work, I know that Fudge, Oreo, Zeus and Vish got paid very little if anything for their work, and had to put in effort well above the call of duty. Basically what I am saying here is that Spinner is not the only creator, and that he is also not the only creator who lost a lot through planetarion. And also, I know that some of the ways he handled the other creators as employees was not right by any stretch of the imagination (although I shall not pass judgement on this as hard times do require hard measures, and such times may have forced his hand).

The second problem I see is the appropriateness of this whole idea. Accepting money of the quantity that such a venture may well lead to is possibly not something that Spinner would like to do, and for various reasons it may be something that causes him problems through taxation and various other things (it would be classed as a gift, and I know that you get taxed on gifts in the UK over a certain amount). As a result, it could put Spinner in a very awkward position and cause him a great deal of embarassment and possibly even trouble. He would be left with a dilema, should/can/will he say no? If he does say no for whatever reason, what would you do with the money? I really do not think an idea such as this should have been made without first checking with Spinner to see if it is appropriate.

Basically, to sum up, I believe that this is an impulsive gesture that hasn't been properly thought through, and I urge the people who are planning it to think it through properly before proceeding, and to halt the idea until they have properly researched the idea and its consequences, and made sure that it is appropriate.

Bashar

Tomkat · 16 Oct 2003, 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bashar

I believe that this is an impulsive gesture that hasn't been properly thought through

Exactly. It was something somene thought up, and now everyone is jumping on the charitable bandwagon.

I can't see you making a significant amount of money for Spinner from this. Sure, everyone says they'll pay - but in reality I doubt many people will. I know I wouldn't.

Yes it's a crying shame that Spinner won't be able to run the game anymore. But it isn't our fault, it is his. He can find another job. I agree with Hicks, I have some coppers here and he can have those. Hooray.

Zh|l · 16 Oct 2003, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

Exactly. It was something somene thought up, and now everyone is jumping on the charitable bandwagon.

I can't see you making a significant amount of money for Spinner from this. Sure, everyone says they'll pay - but in reality I doubt many people will. I know I wouldn't.

Yes it's a crying shame that Spinner won't be able to run the game anymore. But it isn't our fault, it is his. He can find another job. I agree with Hicks, I have some coppers here and he can have those. Hooray.

I'll buy the rights to using the Planetarion name in fiction stories and/or game systems.

Eventh · 16 Oct 2003, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohm

http://skatt.bt.no/

Spinner makes money, only a little less than previous years.....

He had 10 times higher income than me last year.

only one thing can boost this game....make it FREE !!!

2000 -> He earned 552.400 Nok, 76.010 USD
2001 -> He earned 416.700 Nok, 57.338 USD
2002 -> He earned 239.200 Nok, 32.914 USD

Dont tell what he has made this year..
240k nok is not much for norwegian standars..

A student get 80.000 Nok (11.000 USD) to live for..

n4m3l355 · 16 Oct 2003, 18:08

hmm i thought i payed R5 to R9 to as far as i remember that money didnt went to Jolt yet they didnt manage to run a game of it either. paying Jolt for this game which was in start already an argue by the beta's while nothing happened isnt a reason to pay for either.

all i can say its utterly rediculous to pay for a person who knows the riscs of what he's doing + if you put in your own money while you should be payed your already to late.

anyways pld LB by trying to be nice & crap :P

Judge · 16 Oct 2003, 18:19

To all the people knocking the idea in regards to possible flaws (legal) and scams, let me say that this is the start of the process.

Spinner has been contacted, and we await his reply.

The necessary financial checks and balances will be put in place.

Trustees appointed/elected to manage the account.

Legal matters will be looked into.

And the possible/probable tax implications thoroughly looked into.

The "idea" is in it's infancy, it may come to nothing or it may be unviable for any of the above reasons. However the people involved thus far are prepared to give of their time, effort and some cash to make it possible.

If it comes to nothing, then so be it.

But Spinner has given and given to us all, imho it would not be too much to ask to give a little back.

Judge

LORD-NIKO · 16 Oct 2003, 18:27

Nice idea LadyBug

Spinner is a great guy

I will never pay a jolt game anymore

fk off jolt...

Dworak · 16 Oct 2003, 18:27

My VISA will never ever again pay Spinners bills.

BTW: that goes for Jolt aswell.. they still owe me 100 NOK for this round.

G.K Zhukov · 16 Oct 2003, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eventh

2000 -> He earned 552.400 Nok, 76.010 USD
2001 -> He earned 416.700 Nok, 57.338 USD
2002 -> He earned 239.200 Nok, 32.914 USD

That means an average of 402.766 NOK per year... over 50k USD.
Far more than my parents have ever made, even for work who took a heavier toll then Spinners work.

Stop beeing so nice Ladybug, Spinner has enough money

(Agree with W and Hicks)