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Unread 5 Apr 2007, 21:29   #1
GrandAdm Thrawn
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What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Ok, so here is me, still thinking about what race to go next round.
My thoughts so far:

Clearly ETD are a race, made for valueplayers who are used to attack downwards and search the best ships for deffing their roids. Thats definitely not my playstyle so Im not considering playing them.

Then the ZIK race, either they are extremely weak next round or their successful strategies are too complicated for me to see them, so thats no choice either.

So now we come to those interesting races:

Cat: As Cat seemed to have a very strong CR attack and some strong defships when beta started, and as Im an experienced cat player as well (rd 16-19 always cat), it seemed an obvious choice, but PA-team obv. dont like me enjoying the game, so they downgraded cat all beta long, what makes you think if its still worthwhile.

Ter: In my eyes the best attack fleet (Ter BS) and hence an xp-whoring race, what makes them look good for me. But on the other hand my ally will prolly be a bit upset about the lack of good defships there.

Xan: yeah, Xan look pretty good with 2 fine attack fleet and some good defence-ships as well + ofc the cloaking ability that always helps a bit. But then again there is this feeling that as the round progresses xan will finally be owned by the big ships (if you guess Im talking bout Cat and Ter you´re certainly right).

And exactly that is the point where my analysis start going in a circle, so we have:
Cat: ...

hmm, any advice or opinions out there to get me a clue what to do?
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Unread 6 Apr 2007, 01:28   #2
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

the problem i can see happening is the only good anti cruiser is cath, so if many people do choose cathaar (usually its below 20%) but if its up to 25-30% by tick start this number should swell as people realise they are going to need anti cruiser, and so the cathaar proportion increases and so the anti cruiser need increases and so on......

Personally i dont like not killing ships but even I cant see any other way other than cathaar cruiser atm, although the idea of stealing a mighty bs fleet with etd attracts me i fear that lots of cathaar = lots of good in galaxy anti bs
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Unread 6 Apr 2007, 08:15   #3
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

I'm tempted to go xan, but then again i always go xan, no matter how crappy the stats might look
If you got a decent ally / gal that can cover you and get good roids for a nice period of time you can turn your fleet into a fortress. Add a shitload of distorters combined with the cloak they allready have...

/me thinking of signing up
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Unread 6 Apr 2007, 14:55   #4
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

ETD will have a fun/easy time stealing TER BS, ETD are also pretty good defensively

XAN are good enough to pick this round, they can shoot

ZIK have some good stealing potential and I think are looking a bit better than last round

TER DE is also Very strong considering many peopel wont leave banshees aound for defence being apart of an attack fleet

CAT weakness as always is emp, it will be a value round and attracting incs and not holding roids will be the main problem with CAT
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Unread 7 Apr 2007, 13:21   #5
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali
CAT weakness as always is emp, it will be a value round and attracting incs and not holding roids will be the main problem with CAT
although stealing them will be a piece of piss
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Unread 7 Apr 2007, 13:35   #6
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

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Originally Posted by `mac^
although stealing them will be a piece of piss
And with a decent xp formula that might actually pay off. However, round 18 was utterly value dominated, even the xp players in top 100 had at least half their score in value.
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Unread 7 Apr 2007, 17:07   #7
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Looking at my past analysis’ of given rounds’ ship statistics, there’s one general “failure” I’ve committed. I’ve often overlooked predicting the nature of the round in favor of paying more detailed attention to the ship statistics themselves. This probably is an issue to many people doing analysis regarding ship statistics. To counter the expected issue, I’ll start analyzing the statistics by sketching a prediction of the round environment. First of all, the XP formulae has gone through a major change, and we’re back to round 18 formulae. Round 18 was, for a few given reasons, dominated by value players.

First, we can name the XP formulae. It gave, gives, little room for continuous explosive growth. Quick sprints from bottom to mid and high ranks are possible, but once you reach the peak, you’ll experience difficulties gaining sufficient amounts of XP to cope with the value players. This may or may not be underpinned by the reduced initiation costs of asteroids which will obviously result in more asteroids. While this can be seen also favoring XP hunters in terms of larger caps, it’s more likely to underpin the advantages value players experienced during round 18. Second, the steal was back on the first PAX steal style, and gave more room for value play. This can be seen in the end of round top100, which was populated by no less than 59 zikonian players. Third, the round housed eXilition and 1up, traditionally strong value alliances, of which the first dominated the late round with brutal results. The two latter facts might imply that XP play didn’t in fact suffer because of the formulae, but because of the strong alliances and value hype ship statistics. Regardless of these condemning facts, I’m leaning towards a value round given the XP formulae:

bravery_factor = (min(2,target_score/planet_score) -0.6) * (min(2,target_value/planet_value) - 0.4)

The key indicator here is the {min} tag. Instead of adding up large value and score ratios (which allows planets that keep their fleets and value low to gain large chunks of XP regardless of the fact that their score would be higher or equal to the target planet’s score), it chooses the lower of the two factors given in the formulae (2, and the division). In practice, this means, that even if you had a low value, you won’t benefit of it as much, as your score will cause your XP gains to tremendously diminish while you climb ranks. This could be strong enough a factor to prevent XP play from dominating round 21.

The ship statistics, in their current form, are tad more attack biased. Defending is possible, but gets very much more difficult than it did in rounds like 17. If we anticipate a value round, the result of weaker defense grids, would be that the few that are able to hold on to their asteroids will come out on top of things. On a XP round, it would be different, but as written, I’ve forgone the possibility of another XP heavy round. Second, the decline in the rewards of defending (regardless of the recently increased XP gains for defending, up to 300 shared amongst defenders) and the corrosion of the community (I would need to write another essay to talk about the corrosion of community in Planetarion scheme) have basically resulted in green fleets becoming even scarcer.

To summarize, I’m anticipating a value heavy round with lots of asteroid swapping going on. Race-tactically, this brings us down to the importance of passive defense while active defense (here I define passive defense as methods of avoiding getting incomings in the first place, and active defense as methods of stopping the incomings from capping asteroids) are scarcer and less effective. Because of this, I’ll review the races in the primary aspect of being able to passively defend your value, and in the secondary aspect of being able to exert offensive power.

Terrans look rather weak in this perspective. They seem to get overrun by just about everything. Eitrades can smash through them with corvettes, xandathrii with fighters, zikonian with frigates, and to a lesser extent, destroyers (the Pirate is quite potent), and Tarantula-heavy cathaars are also able to cap terrans. The major threat seems to be zikonian frigates, as the Harpy fires after the Thief, which makes it more or less useless. The predicted large amount of zikonian players (currently standing at 23% of signed up planets), backed by zikonian success in holding asteroids last round, will probably result in terrans seeing awfully lots of frigates next round. The destroyer fleet looks vastly useless, but with a lot of banshees potentially being out attacking (the cloak though can deceive, and makes landing against unknown fleets a very risky option), the Pegasus can probably break through the occasional cathaar. To add to it, some terran players found a level of success with the Pegasus last round regardless of the similar kind of setup with xandathrii fighters. The highly rated battleship fleet may suffer from the Ranger and the Scorpion. Overall, terran seems like a poor choice.

Cathaars are possibly even weaker holding on to what’s theirs in compared to terrans. Your attack fleets can only cover three classes (fighters, frigates, and battleships), and your sole conventional ship (the Scorpion) overlaps with battleships. As a result, you’re forced to build various types of EMP ships to protect your asteroids, and are in a huge danger of being flooded by team ups. This is a very real risk in a round where you can expect defense fleets to be scarce. The advantage you can gain is an explosive start early on – the stacking racial research bonus will give you a fast start in compared to other races, and if you manage to mine a lot early on, you can establish a good stockpile to protect yourself with. Offensively, the corvettes can play a role mainly picking off xandathrii, and to an extent other cathaars. Terrans, eitrades’, and zikonians have zero-loss means of stopping corvettes. The cruisers, on the other hand, are very potent, and there are no zero-loss means of stopping them. This will probably result in cruiser fleets being nigh unstoppable to an extent. Overall, cathaar is a mediocre choice, with the lack of defensive prowess being patched up a little by the immensely strong cruiser fleet.

Xandathrii appear like a fighter swarm with a corvette icing to the cake. With the recent upgrade of the Merchant, though, and the Thief, you might find yourself stunned and stolen pretty easily. Defensively, you’re stuck with little initial means to stop cruisers and battleships, unless you go the frigate route in which case you can stack probably enough flak to hedge out some battleship and cruiser fleets. Corvettes, fighters, and destroyers shouldn’t be able to attack you very effectively (with the given exception of Pegasus-heavy fleets). Many people rate the combination of xandathrii fighters and corvettes the strongest attack fleet in the statistics, and the cloak ability underpins the inherent strength of the fleet. Overall, xandathrii seems like a solid choice. The greatest disadvantage is the already mentioned stacking research formulae, which increases the effect xandathrii’s racial disadvantage brings them.

Zikonians are still stuck on their handicapped stealing ability. On the other hand, any given zikonian steal ship is a true monster. Even with the higher initiative (well, you would usually fire last), rates like 558-418 will, as seen last round, make up for the problem. A person intending on attacking a zikonian needs to clean out a bunch of very strong ships in order to avoid large casualties when the steal ships actually get to fire. If you gain some fleet under your belt, you’ll be a tough nut to crack. The current zikonian revolves more around the fear factor than the steal factor on the attacking edge too. The frigate fleet is good at attacking terrans, who have little means of defending themselves. The destroyer fleet is apt at flooding the given EMP correspondents, and the strong Pirate may give options to attack terrans as well. Overall, zikonians seem like a solid choice for the round. The steal options may help you overcome some weak links and produce stronger attack fleets during the round.

The last of the five, eitrades, have a remarkable salvage bonus to them. This obviously gives them some extra defensive resiliency, which shouldn’t be underestimated. They have zero-loss solutions to both battleship fleets (different ships, though), they’re tough ones for corvettes, and the Merchant hedges out xandathrii fighter swarms. Cruisers may wind up being the problem to eitrades too, and they seem the strongest option defensively. Offensively, the corvette fleet is fast and able to pick off terrans and cathaars. The battleship fleet covers xandathrii at ease, but will experience difficulties attacking any other race. Overall, eitrades seem like an excellent choice for the round, even though a slight drawback lies in attacking (what a miss there).

Last edited by Tietäjä; 7 Apr 2007 at 20:07.
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Unread 7 Apr 2007, 19:49   #8
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
The cruisers, on the other hand, are very potent, and there are no zero-loss means of stopping them. This will probably result in cruiser fleets being nigh unstoppable to an extent. Overall, cathaar is a mediocre choice, with the lack of defensive prowess being patched up a little by the immensely strong cruiser fleet.
Just to quickly point out - the existence of EMP means that anything targetted by it is automatically zero-loss. I'm not going to start working out efficiencies, but it seems likely to me that most Cathaar cruiser fleets will be Roach-heavy, meaning that both Dragons and Investors could both be very handy against cruiser fleets. Meanwhile, the combination of Mantis (to cut losses via EMP) and Shadows/Dealers against the strong Roaches could be an interesting match-up. Overall that'll be a game of chicken since all three 'normal' ships have exactly the same initiative.

As the round moves into its later stages, I'd expect the corvette fleet to come into its own again. Phoenixes probably won't be built in large quantities, so Voyagers will be the main zero-frozen weapon against Corvette fleets - obviously enough of any form of defence will be enough to flak through the EMP, e.g. massed Apparitions.



Aside from that, nice summary Keizari.
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Unread 7 Apr 2007, 19:57   #9
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

I would have to pretty much agree with keiz, even for me terran isnt an option ( I aint having a go at the stat maker btw) one thing I can say from a DC point of view it will be harder to wing def calls and will be more dependant on the old battle calc due to the arm/damage v costs
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Unread 7 Apr 2007, 20:05   #10
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
Just to quickly point out - the existence of EMP means that anything targetted by it is automatically zero-loss.
Yeah, technically. If you feel like it, I could come up with another term, but stating "there is nothing that would not get shot by cruisers that targets cruisers" is so much longer than "no zero-loss anti-cr".
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Unread 8 Apr 2007, 03:40   #11
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

I actually beleive Zik will be better because of the drop of cost with the Terran ships
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Unread 8 Apr 2007, 11:37   #12
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
I'm not going to start working out efficiencies, but it seems likely to me that most Cathaar cruiser fleets will be Roach-heavy, meaning that both Dragons and Investors could both be very handy against cruiser fleets. Meanwhile, the combination of Mantis (to cut losses via EMP) and Shadows/Dealers against the strong Roaches could be an interesting match-up. Overall that'll be a game of chicken since all three 'normal' ships have exactly the same initiative.

As the round moves into its later stages, I'd expect the corvette fleet to come into its own again. Phoenixes probably won't be built in large quantities, so Voyagers will be the main zero-frozen weapon against Corvette fleets - obviously enough of any form of defence will be enough to flak through the EMP, e.g. massed Apparitions.
Surely its gonna be ziks that hold their roids, in which case tuals are the way to go imo. The CO fleet will ofc come into its own aswell as it generally does.
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Unread 8 Apr 2007, 11:49   #13
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

you don't need to work out the efficiencies when there's /statanalysis.pl
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Unread 9 Apr 2007, 00:21   #14
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome
you don't need to work out the efficiencies when there's /statanalysis.pl
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Unread 9 Apr 2007, 00:46   #15
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

statSanalysis.pl my bad

ie. http://beta.planetarion.com/statsanalysis.pl
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Unread 9 Apr 2007, 07:31   #16
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
I would have to pretty much agree with keiz, even for me terran isnt an option ( I aint having a go at the stat maker btw) one thing I can say from a DC point of view it will be harder to wing def calls and will be more dependant on the old battle calc due to the arm/damage v costs
oh how nice of you to turn up, we missed y ou last round you seemed to dissapear for some apparent reason, god only knows why I dont think anyone really cares what you have to say, not after last round, or even before that tbh
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Unread 9 Apr 2007, 10:27   #17
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
The cruisers, on the other hand, are very potent, and there are no zero-loss means of stopping them. This will probably result in cruiser fleets being nigh unstoppable to an extent. Overall, cathaar is a mediocre choice, with the lack of defensive prowess being patched up a little by the immensely strong cruiser fleet.
With current stats i do not agree that the Cat CR fleet is decent. Sure you will probably need defence when being hit by Cat (as you need defence for any fleet type you are hit by), but the EMP efficiency of the CR ships is poor at best with a stun ratio between 110-125% of its own value (which is even outperformed by kill ships in some cases). Considering that except for Terran, every race will have a reasonable amount of FR ships, it will be relatively easy to outflak the Roach. Dealers can only be stunned at 81% of the Roach its own value and the Scarab stuns Roach before they fire. And for the Tarantula, both Dragons and Marauders can't be stunned efficiently either. It seems to be that next to Cathaars always weak defensive stats (even weaker than usual now), they lost their offensive advantage aswell, making it one of the worst races to play.
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Unread 9 Apr 2007, 11:01   #18
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wandows
but the EMP efficiency of the CR ships is poor at best with a stun ratio between 110-125% of its own value (which is even outperformed by kill ships in some cases).
Yeah. Take it, it gets even worse for Broker. Yet, cathaars will be flying around with large cruiser fleets, and they will get hard to stop - for example for xandathriis that will focus on fighters and corvettes (unless there's a sudden shift). Marauders have no native flak for them, so building even 25% marauders in compared to tarantula is a decent chunk off your offensive prowness. Eitrades experience it especially heavy: they will be tempted to build lots of those nifty defensive gadgets, but while their both attack fleets are prone to sucking arse, they will find roids harder. Cathaar cruisers isn't brilliant, but suffice to say it'll be good.

As cathaars won't probably be building lots of defensive array anyways, as it can be a waste of time. Good points though, to all of it, maybe cathaar should go to the par with terrans as a poor choice. Or maybe even below terrans, as with the recent changes.
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 02:48   #19
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

so most people are saying that ter aint good and cat aint good either because of a lack of defence in both cases - and cat cr aren't useful as hell either

so the advice would be "strength in numbers" i.e. xan?

and etd for the fence-sitting fraction
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 14:08   #20
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

My opinion of the races for Round XXI - Below the race, is the Zik perspective:

Terran: The armor of their ships IS a nice figure, and this round their ships are actually affordable from what I can tell off the ship stats.
Zik Perspective - YAY, Terran Ships are finally cheep enough to steal without major loss of fleet numbers in the process. WHOOHOOO!!!

Cathaar: The EMP success ratio is low, granted..but now that ships are cheaper, you also have a PsudoXan thing going on with the ability to have mass numbers of those EMP ships, after all, Cathaar is the race with the second cheapest ships in the game.
Zik Perspective - Never turn down stealing from a Cathaar, EMP ships mean you lose less ships yourself, and since they don't destroy, you don't lose the ability to steal other ships.

Xandathrii: Mass numbers, cheapest ships, fastest ships that actually do damage. With their prices also being lower, you can expect the numbers to go up even more, making for even more of a complex situation saving your roids effectively, not to mention the cloaked aspect will drive Free Players through the wall. Only downside is they budget cut the armor...so a small fleet of...err...anything can cause devastation to your value.
Zik Perspective - The cloaked aspect is nice, the low ship value is nice...but honestly...are these worth letting my ships die to steal them? I try to avoid it...but yeah

Eitraides: The jack of all trades, literately. They have a little bit of everything, and don't focus on anything either. They do have the most cost effective Pod and Siege ships, I will admit that...but those are the only perks I can see from it outside of the ability to build any type of ship and a few other perks here and there.
Zik Perspective - Only a few ships worth my time, however, I'll show them how to steal the right way, amatures >.>

Zikonian: Ahh, finally onto the Ziks, These are the ones who if you see a fleet heading your way, their goal is NOT only your roids, but your ships as well. This race is also the one I'm working with for round 21. It has a few other perks, such as faster production time and higher stealth. The only real drawback is the low salvage they get. But then again, who needs salvage when you have your attackers fleet as well?
Zik Perspective: Umm...err...wait, it's me >.> Honestly, isn't stealing from a Zik as a Zik a little...I dunno, redundant...it's literately a ship exchange. Oh well, can't hurt to mess around with further down the road.
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 14:23   #21
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandAdm Thrawn
so most people are saying that ter aint good and cat aint good either because of a lack of defence in both cases - and cat cr aren't useful as hell either

so the advice would be "strength in numbers" i.e. xan?

and etd for the fence-sitting fraction
Fence-sitting? Etd will be among the most valuable defence players in an alliance, and they will have their share of incomings as well.
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 14:30   #22
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celis
My opinion of the races for Round XXI - Below the race, is the Zik perspective:

Terran: The armor of their ships IS a nice figure, and this round their ships are actually affordable from what I can tell off the ship stats.
Zik Perspective - YAY, Terran Ships are finally cheep enough to steal without major loss of fleet numbers in the process. WHOOHOOO!!!

Cathaar: The EMP success ratio is low, granted..but now that ships are cheaper, you also have a PsudoXan thing going on with the ability to have mass numbers of those EMP ships, after all, Cathaar is the race with the second cheapest ships in the game.
Zik Perspective - Never turn down stealing from a Cathaar, EMP ships mean you lose less ships yourself, and since they don't destroy, you don't lose the ability to steal other ships.

Xandathrii: Mass numbers, cheapest ships, fastest ships that actually do damage. With their prices also being lower, you can expect the numbers to go up even more, making for even more of a complex situation saving your roids effectively, not to mention the cloaked aspect will drive Free Players through the wall. Only downside is they budget cut the armor...so a small fleet of...err...anything can cause devastation to your value.
Zik Perspective - The cloaked aspect is nice, the low ship value is nice...but honestly...are these worth letting my ships die to steal them? I try to avoid it...but yeah

Eitraides: The jack of all trades, literately. They have a little bit of everything, and don't focus on anything either. They do have the most cost effective Pod and Siege ships, I will admit that...but those are the only perks I can see from it outside of the ability to build any type of ship and a few other perks here and there.
Zik Perspective - Only a few ships worth my time, however, I'll show them how to steal the right way, amatures >.>

Zikonian: Ahh, finally onto the Ziks, These are the ones who if you see a fleet heading your way, their goal is NOT only your roids, but your ships as well. This race is also the one I'm working with for round 21. It has a few other perks, such as faster production time and higher stealth. The only real drawback is the low salvage they get. But then again, who needs salvage when you have your attackers fleet as well?
Zik Perspective: Umm...err...wait, it's me >.> Honestly, isn't stealing from a Zik as a Zik a little...I dunno, redundant...it's literately a ship exchange. Oh well, can't hurt to mess around with further down the road.
You do realize that zik ships die after stealing, so now you actually have to consider if it's worth landing on someone, when it means losing more than what you get back. On the other side, i think we will see a lot of zik de fleets in the universe, which could be quite annoying, but i am counting on stealing terran bs if i end up going etd.
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 15:29   #23
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
but i am counting on stealing terran bs if i end up going etd.
Seconded. I think everyposter so far has missed this point. I, and every other etrd i spoken to so far plans spending first month or so hunting terran bs fleets. Hell im even going after as many rogues as i can fake frg as bs landings on. Any of the top etr players will for certain have a terran/etr bs roiding fleet and any of those smart or lucky enough will have a fair share of cr too. So those theories about etr being hard to get roids is nonsense. Chuck in 140% salvage, the ability to build a ship to cover just about every class and the goverment bonusus means i for 1 am going etr, finance centre whore and build a nice stockpile once i have 600+ roids first week etc
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 15:45   #24
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

what rinoa said is exactly how i had planned to play etd this round, i also think the stealing of rogues cannot be understated as an etd, if you can get a fair few it will prevent the cath cr incs (although cath not a huge percentage in universe as we speak, although the cath players are usually good quality players, unlike the terran ones of which half are casual) and witha bit of luck you can harvest some cath cruisers for a 2nd/3rd attack fleet,

i think the etd corvettes will dissappear later in the round just due to the huge amount of phantom (better e/r against the cath and etd) that will prolly be in the universe by then
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 16:25   #25
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinoa
Seconded. I think everyposter so far has missed this point. I, and every other etrd i spoken to so far plans spending first month or so hunting terran bs fleets. Hell im even going after as many rogues as i can fake frg as bs landings on. Any of the top etr players will for certain have a terran/etr bs roiding fleet and any of those smart or lucky enough will have a fair share of cr too. So those theories about etr being hard to get roids is nonsense. Chuck in 140% salvage, the ability to build a ship to cover just about every class and the goverment bonusus means i for 1 am going etr, finance centre whore and build a nice stockpile once i have 600+ roids first week etc
Yes, we've all missed the point. Where 234 eitrades players manage to steal an awesome battleship fleet from 352 terran players during the first week. Good job.
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 17:00   #26
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

numbers will rise in the next few days upto 2000 as it usually does anyway so you can hope for 400 terran players if not 500
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 17:01   #27
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinoa
I think if u check my post keizari youll find i said the first month+ spent stealing bs. Also i said the top etr players.,So im thinking about 50 planets trying to steal from say 250 hittable terrans. I dont see where my logic is wrong there tbh
Of course your logic isn't wrong, but it's still a strategy that requires the first strategy to succeed in order to function. This means, it's not, at "large", a viable eitrades tactic, given if you approximate one fifth of eitrades players will actually manage to pull it through *somewhat*.
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 17:02   #28
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juffled
numbers will rise in the next few days upto 2000 as it usually does anyway so you can hope for 400 terran players if not 500
Yeah. And you can expect more eitrades players, too. A larger share of the eitrades will participate in the active universe, while a fair share of those terrans might never reach siege weapons.
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 17:54   #29
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

well thanks to all moaning looks like theve changed stats in new beta to make cath cr vs etr a zero loss option. Ie making the cath cr that targets frg an emp ship and giving it init of 2 against a now defunct etr anti cr with an init of 8. Cheers guys from all the etr players
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 17:59   #30
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinoa
well thanks to all moaning looks like theve changed stats in new beta to make cath cr vs etr a zero loss option. Cheers guys from all the etr players
To me, this sounds like: "My mommy never loved me when I was young" :whine: :whine:

I just hope they won't mess up stats that much more. PA Team basically skipped a week of "testing" stats (and as was already proven a few rounds ago on PD, it won't give you good figures this way as speedgames are played differently, stats-wise), why would they now want to make something bad even worse?
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 18:30   #31
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Decreasing the ERES of certain ships would have done the job, just to make them more efficient, this change was quite unnecessary.
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Unread 10 Apr 2007, 18:42   #32
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Have to say, this round im having real problems deciding on what race to go. Theres som emajor pros\cons to every race(wether its bad at attacking, bad at defending or simply fking boring to play).
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Unread 11 Apr 2007, 00:17   #33
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

zik is where its at.
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Unread 11 Apr 2007, 15:12   #34
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinoa
well thanks to all moaning looks like theve changed stats in new beta to make cath cr vs etr a zero loss option. Ie making the cath cr that targets frg an emp ship and giving it init of 2 against a now defunct etr anti cr with an init of 8. Cheers guys from all the etr players
Whats drugs are you on? Caths anti-fr has been emp during the whole beta.
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Unread 11 Apr 2007, 15:55   #35
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

Quote:
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Whats drugs are you on? Caths anti-fr has been emp during the whole beta.
Nope, for a short while both the Viper and Roach were tested as kill ships, but apparantly not worth to keep.
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Unread 12 Apr 2007, 04:34   #36
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

If you go for Cath, rush for CR, build loads and keep attacking. If you start by trying to build def, you'll never get the benefit of a potentially unstoppable CR roiding fleet (though the Tara is a bit weak vs Dragon, i guess Etd will be trying to get those pretty bad). You'll be attacked by everybody, so it's really about being prepared for that, choose Feudalism for cheaper ships, and 3 fleet in attack (1 fleet go for XP, 2 others for easy roids to make up for your losses).

I'll still go for Etd coz (in addition to the good stats) I like their salvage bonus combined to Feudalism. You buy ships at 75% of normal cost, you get + 40% salvage on ships at their normal cost... being fleetcatched or oversleeping is no more a drama.

Xan will be emped to death (if that is possible...), you'll need to concentrate on Fis to overcome the power of EMP but beware the FCs... some merchants + Zik stealers and you're back to tick 0...

Zik is the best race imho, but it demands patience to build up a nice fleet. Surely they'll get loads of Xan Fi early on. Andthey'll be a pain to def against (or to attack) if they dist whore (as they should).

Terran is the weakest race around, saved from being crap by their armour... not fun to play, but always good to have a terran buddy to suck EMP on your Cath inc.
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Unread 12 Apr 2007, 14:43   #37
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

I quite liked xand from my quick scan of the stats. If it weren't my exam period and I was playing, I'd probably pick them.

Merchants and ingal thieves are going to be a pain in the ass, but FI can theoretically hit anything in the game.

Terrans are likely to BS rush or, later in the game, concentrate on BS. So mass banshee should have little problem scaring off pegs. Fi/Co can hit zik easily enough (and you can send bombers along against terrans and, theoretically, caths as well). Caths and Etd can only EMP you, and you're free to play chicken with other xands if you want.

Defence wise you're not too shabby either. A good xand/etd alliance would be quite tough to crack.


EDIT: zik init 6 steal ship, did I read that right? o_O
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Unread 12 Apr 2007, 15:16   #38
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Re: What race to go rd 21: any advice out there?

yeah but the only fi with a higher init than it is the harpy lets face it, whos gonna want them.



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