Perhaps Britain owes it to asylum seekers..

[Zar]

I was having a chat with a friend, about asylum seekers. It came up because of Vaio's thread.

When discussing we came across this point:

Perhaps britain owes asylum to seekers, because of the trouble Britain has caused in the past, and the wealth britain accumulated due to its empire at the cost of other nations.

Look at it this way.

1) Its hard to deny - that without Britains colonies, Britain would not be as rich as it is today.

2) If britain hadn't gone around pillaging, and making a mess of the countries it "occupied", then perhaps these countries wouldnt have such a political mess, and perhaps a lot less "poor" and targeted people, who would seek asylum.

So if by cause of the British empire. the occupants of this country became even wealthier and enjoyed a better lifestyle at the expense of the people the empire made poorer, perhaps we shouldn't be complaining and give them asylum. You might ask "but how much should we give back". That is a toughy - but considering the wealth Britain gained, + the poverty it caused, i'd say britain has a lot more still to do, in repaying back the damages it caused.

This is just a point - it is not necc what i believe - before you start flaming me

Zar

[Rommel]

Originally posted by Zar

[/b]

We offered people from the Commonwealth a chance to come over here when we needed more jobs filling. Going on the assumption that these were the "lives we ruined" whilst we had an Empire.

[Matrim]

Why should we suffer when someone else could just as easily?


It all depends on how much you're willing to share.


I'm good at sharing stuff.




Matrim

[Zar]

Originally posted by Rommel
We offered people from the Commonwealth a chance to come over here when we needed more jobs filling. Going on the assumption that these were the "lives we ruined" whilst we had an Empire.

Oh, so the few thousand that were invited to fill the gaps in the british labour market are all the people that the empire had an effect on?

The empire had an effect on a few million if not 10's perhaps even 100's of millions.

Oh and lovely, britain only invites people from the commonwealth, when they will become of benefit to the british (filling the labour gap). When there is no benefit to british "aaawwwfff with his head"

Zar

[Rommel]

Originally posted by Zar
Oh, so the few thousand that were invited to fill the gaps in the british labour market are all the people that the empire had an effect on?

The empire had an effect on a few million if not 10's perhaps even 100's of millions.

Oh and lovely, britain only invites people from the commonwealth, when they will become of benefit to the british (filling the labour gap). When there is no benefit to british "aaawwwfff with his head"

Zar

Why should we invite any tom dick and harry over here? If they come over here they're expected to work, pay taxes, learn English, respect our traditions etc. Before you moan 'whatabout theirs?' - they're are mosques here, there are churches, there's a hindu temple in Neasden (at least i think it is). I think that they are covered in terms of their religion and MOST respect that, not all do but most do.

If you want to invite everyone over here then please have them ALL in your town ta.

[queball]

What are you comparing against? Britain is not a particularly rich country.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by queball
Britain is not a particularly rich country.

We're richer than most.

[Vaio]

how long do we have to be made to feel guilty for stuff that was done a long time ago ?

Vaio

[Bloomers III]

next you'll be saying we (and america) should compensate slave's descendants

[Zar]

Originally posted by Vaio
how long do we have to be made to feel guilty for stuff that was done a long time ago ?

Vaio

as long as britain and its population continue to roll around in wealth that they shouldn't have

Zar

[Zar]

Originally posted by Bloomers III
next you'll be saying we (and america) should compensate slave's descendants

the only compensation the usa can give (to the world) is to ship its entire population off to the moon. That will make us all happy.

Zar

[Rommel]

Originally posted by Zar
as long as britain and its population continue to roll around in wealth that they shouldn't have

Zar

No-one's stopping you from leaving the UK. You appear to hate it so much that perhaps you should consider applying for asylum in erm Iraq?

[Dante Hicks]

Transgenerational compensation is a stupid idea (as it transgenerational wealth).

My descendents are Irish/Jewish/English. If I have to pay Africa for European crimes, I want my slice of the potato famine/anti-semitism fund.

[Zar]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
Transgenerational compensation is a stupid idea (as it transgenerational wealth).

My descendents are Irish/Jewish/English. If I have to pay Africa for European crimes, I want my slice of the potato famine/anti-semitism fund.

jews already get their compensation, unlike anyone else

Zar

[Vaio]

Originally posted by Zar
as long as britain and its population continue to roll around in wealth that they shouldn't have

Zar

This wealth I am rolling about in, where exactly is it ?

Vaio

[Vaio]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
Transgenerational compensation is a stupid idea (as it transgenerational wealth).

My descendents are Irish/Jewish/English. If I have to pay Africa for European crimes, I want my slice of the potato famine/anti-semitism fund.

I'll buy you some chips

Vaio

[Zar]

Originally posted by Rommel
No-one's stopping you from leaving the UK. You appear to hate it so much that perhaps you should consider applying for asylum in erm Iraq?

im only in the UK, to make my money and exploit the stupidity of a large % of this populace

Zar

[Zar]

Originally posted by Vaio
This wealth I am rolling about in, where exactly is it ?

Vaio

in the hands of your government (in the form of the public services they hand out to you)

Zar

[Rommel]

Originally posted by Zar
im only in the UK, to make my money and exploit the stupidity of a large % of this populace

Zar

You're 1 of that "large populace"

[Rommel]

Originally posted by Zar
jews already get their compensation, unlike anyone else

Zar

So you want more wars and conflicts in this world?

[Nusselt]

Actually theres a large portion of people who were given british passports when the empire kaputted. Its why the East African Asians came here and we couldnt turn them back despite trying, they were British overseas citizens (effectively ex-pats) and as such we had a de facto obligation to take care of them.

Its also why we continue to get and will continue to get legal migration from the colonies for awhile yet.






Anyone who doesnt appriciate sophie can go burn

[Vaio]

Originally posted by Zar
in the hands of your government (in the form of the public services they hand out to you)

Zar

the ones I pay tax for ?

Vaio

[Zar]

Originally posted by Rommel
You're 1 of that "large populace"

if exploiting myself will make me rich, then so be it.

However i dont think it is good for my body. Exploiting oneself can cause irreversible harm

Zar

[Zar]

Originally posted by Vaio
the ones I pay tax for ?

Vaio

they are managed today by tax. However when the empire existed, the wealth inputted into the circular flow of income, from overseas (Colonies) greatly added to the budget of the government, and in turn its people.

Thus if the colonies didn't exist, the public services you enjoy today might not have been so good.

Zar

[Rommel]

Originally posted by Zar


Thus if the colonies didn't exist, the public services you enjoy today might not have been so good.

Zar

HAHA!!
I'd hardly call them good

[Zar]

Originally posted by Rommel
HAHA!!
I'd hardly call them good

ok -

"might have been even worse"

happy??

Zar

[Vaio]

Originally posted by Zar
they are managed today by tax. However when the empire existed, the wealth inputted into the circular flow of income, from overseas (Colonies) greatly added to the budget of the government, and in turn its people.

Thus if the colonies didn't exist, the public services you enjoy today might not have been so good.

Zar

Utter crap. Delete this thread, it's making you look stupider than the one you posted about revenge

Vaio

[queball]

I think we should try to help genuine asylum seekers whether or not they are from a country once colonised by Britain.

[Nusselt]

Originally posted by Vaio
Utter crap. Delete this thread, it's making you look stupider than the one you posted about revenge

Vaio

Hey at least he starts his threads with an argument. Sophie is so much better than you.

[Zar]

Originally posted by Vaio
Utter crap. Delete this thread, it's making you look stupider than the one you posted about revenge

Vaio

delete this thread because you don't agree with it?

awww you poor product of asininity

Zar

[Vaio]

Originally posted by Zar
delete this thread because you don't agree with it?

awww you poor product of asininity

Zar

If you want to make yourself look a bigger retard and leave it up, I dont mind

Vaio

[Vaio]

Originally posted by Nusselt
Hey at least he starts his threads with an argument. Sophie is so much better than you.

Is this where I ask who Sophie is ?

Vaio

[Zar]

Originally posted by Vaio
If you want to make yourself look a bigger retard and leave it up, I dont mind

Vaio

vaio - you see, im not particularly worried especially when imbeciles like you call me a "retard".

I feel pity and i feel sorry for your kind. Lets all say "awwww" to vaio. Theres a good little boy!

Zar

[JammyJim]

I thought World War II's technological advances gave us what we have today?

Infact we are worse off now in 'real' terms than we were 100 years ago when we ruled the entire globe with an iron fist.

The only country that can truly claim that immigrants have made it what it is, is the united states. (For obvious reasons)




Also

Why the **** should we be paying for our culture? 100-200 Years ago we carved up the world with other European powers. It was the custom. Its what we believed worked.

Oh and we are not rolling around in wealth.


Heres a better topic of conversation that has mayn more sides and is far far more 'topical' :


3rd World Debt.

Go read up about that because if we have really screwed over the third world anywhere, its with loaning them money.

[Rommel]

Originally posted by Zar

Perhaps britain owes asylum to seekers, because of the trouble Britain has caused in the past, and the wealth britain accumulated due to its empire at the cost of other nations.

And none of the countries in the empire benefitted? I think it's fair to say that since they gained independence (they wanted their own independence) they have gone down hill. They've had civil wars, famines etc.

Originally posted by Zar

1) Its hard to deny - that without Britains colonies, Britain would not be as rich as it is today.

Debatable, i can't be bothered to go into it.

Originally posted by Zar

2) If britain hadn't gone around pillaging, and making a mess of the countries it "occupied", then perhaps these countries wouldnt have such a political mess, and perhaps a lot less "poor" and targeted people, who would seek asylum.

They got into their own mess after they gained their independence. As far as i see it, it's no longer our problem or concern. As for you comment about less "poor" and targetted people seeking asylum that's rubbish. We had no rule in the old Yugoslavia, yet there are a lot of them over here now.

Originally posted by Zar

So if by cause of the British empire. the occupants of this country became even wealthier and enjoyed a better lifestyle at the expense of the people the empire made poorer, perhaps we shouldn't be complaining and give them asylum.

Someone pointed out in this thread that they were made British citizens - Nusselt .

Originally posted by Zar

You might ask "but how much should we give back".

We gave them their independence back. Not our problem that they can't run their own country today.

[Vaio]

Originally posted by Zar
vaio - you see, im not particularly worried especially when imbeciles like you call me a "retard".

I feel pity and i feel sorry for your kind. Lets all say "awwww" to vaio. Theres a good little boy!

Zar

It's called jealously not pity, now go crawl back underneath the rock you came out from underneath and leave the clever stuff to the grownups sonny

Vaio

[Zar]

Originally posted by Rommel
And none of the countries in the empire benefitted? I think it's fair to say that since they gained independence (they wanted their own independence) they have gone down hill. They've had civil wars, famines etc.

Debatable, i can't be bothered to go into it.

They got into their own mess after they gained their independence. As far as i see it, it's no longer our problem or concern. As for you comment about less "poor" and targetted people seeking asylum that's rubbish. We had no rule in the old Yugoslavia, yet there are a lot of them over here now.

Someone pointed out in this thread that they were made British citizens - Nusselt .

We gave them their independence back. Not our problem that they can't run their own country today.

GIving them independance, after screwing them over doesn't help you know. You can't make a mess, then hand it all down to them and say "well good luck young chappies".

India being a prime example. Britain allowed for the creation of Pakistan, and East Pakistan, even though anyone with common sense would have thought about the consequences of dividing such a large population (lets not forget, also palestinians, and those invading, unwelcome jews). Not only did it leave India in a huge mess by causing huge racial tensions, dividing it etc... Oh and you think famine didn't exist back then? Oh trust me, with the taxes britain demanded famine was rampant all over the sub-continent.

Britain didn't give much to these countries, other than being a byproduct of british development. e.g the railway in India - was not for indians, but to transport resources around the country. It just so happened that the network was still there when britain left.

adding the +ve's britain gave taking away the -ve's, i'd say the empires existence was a HUGE -ve to almost every single colony and its inhabitants

Zar

[Zar]

Originally posted by Vaio
It's called jealously not pity, now go crawl back underneath the rock you came out from underneath and leave the clever stuff to the grownups sonny

Vaio

what about you, would make me jealous in any possible way?

Zar

[Vaio]

Originally posted by Zar
what about you, would make me jealous in any possible way?

Zar

It's simple

I'm not a twat, you however with every sentence prove you are

Vaio

[Zar]

Originally posted by Vaio
It's simple

I'm not a twat, you however with every sentence prove you are

Vaio

oh and suddenly you became intellectually capable enough and dare i add "cool" enough to decide who is a twat and who isn't??

don't kid yourself vaio

Zar

[Dante Hicks]

It's quite simple. As a matter of good conscience I believe we should help all those in the world, irrespective of what we've done in the past.

Are we saying that if we somehow got to a stage of infinite wealth we would help only those we had screwed over in the past? So if there was a country which was suffering but who couldn't somehow get us on a guilt trip, we wouldn't help them?

What a bizarre philosophy.

p.s. Derailing a thread via flaming is

[Vaio]

Originally posted by Zar
oh and suddenly you became intellectually capable enough and dare i add "cool" enough to decide who is a twat and who isn't??

don't kid yourself vaio

Zar

Remember this ?

Vaio

[Zar]

Originally posted by Vaio
Remember this ?

Vaio

Yes of course i do. My memory does extend past a few days you know. In relation to that thread, i let it die away, because i sat down and considered the points people made (and other friends), and i realised, that to be honest - she isn't worth the effort i would put in to ruining her life. Plus - i was probably more of a fool for getting tied down to her (women are the spawn of the devil).

I was just emotionally hung-up, such things happen vaio, and if you weren't spending all day wanking to pictures of britney spears, you would perhaps understand. Emotions can sometimes make you irrational.

If anything at least i thought about it before doing it on impulse. The conclusion being, that i will "get over it" (hopefully - eventually)

Zar

[Rommel]

Originally posted by Zar
GIving them independance, after screwing them over doesn't help you know. You can't make a mess, then hand it all down to them and say "well good luck young chappies".

India being a prime example. Britain allowed for the creation of Pakistan, and East Pakistan, even though anyone with common sense would have thought about the consequences of dividing such a large population (lets not forget, also palestinians, and those invading, unwelcome jews). Not only did it leave India in a huge mess by causing huge racial tensions, dividing it etc... Oh and you think famine didn't exist back then? Oh trust me, with the taxes britain demanded famine was rampant all over the sub-continent.

Britain didn't give much to these countries, other than being a byproduct of british development. e.g the railway in India - was not for indians, but to transport resources around the country. It just so happened that the network was still there when britain left.

adding the +ve's britain gave taking away the -ve's, i'd say the empires existence was a HUGE -ve to almost every single colony and its inhabitants

Zar

How would you sort out the Israel/Palestine conflict then? If you remember then you'll know that Israel was smaller than it is today. The Arabs started a war on Israel in 1967 and lost quite miserably and Israel gained a lot of land from it. We should just leave them at their own devices and let them sort it out themselves. Israel could quite easily wipe the Arab world out by itself.

With regards to India and Pakistan, it was written into the Indian Independence Act that Pakistan would be proclaimed a dominion. Pakistan is an islamic country, India is not, there would've been civil wars, like there was. The problem between these 2 countries, or country as it was at the time, stemmed back from the 19th century, and not because "we" created 2 different countries from 1, well 3 including Bangladesh.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally posted by Rommel
Israel could quite easily wipe the Arab world out by itself.

No. The Israeli army could defeat the various "Arab" armies, yes.

"Wiping out the Arab world" is a slightly different matter.

[Weeks]

Strongly agree with Zar.

Besides economically we are so rich beacuse of our workforce. Which is made up in part by immigrants.

And we have the largest part-time workforce in Europe, which is largly made up from overseas students.

France is twice the size of us. But yet we still outperform them in GDP. In my opinion this can be explained by the fact we have around the same (slightly bigger if i recall) population than them.

Contray to what i read in the Sun etc. most of the oversea visiters actually work that i've met because they have to to survive.

I was working as a Warden in my student halls (which has a very high overseas student population) and i saw that very few home students worked (mainly cos mummy and daddy paid for their car, rent, etc) whereas most of the overseas students HAD to work to survive. Mainly in pretty awful jobs. Thus helping our economy. Only doing this so they can afford to give us about 7 times more than home students do to study here.

And yeah i agree. In past centry we completly messed up about every country we went into, so it makes sense that the population of those countries would come to the place were all their countries riches ended up.

[Rommel]

Originally posted by Dante Hicks
No. The Israeli army could defeat the various "Arab" armies, yes.

"Wiping out the Arab world" is a slightly different matter.

True, ok Israel could defeat the various Arab armies . Sounds more feasable.

[Vaio]

Originally posted by Zar
Random dribblings

Zar

I wank over Debby Harry, not Britney

Vaio

[Zar]

Originally posted by Rommel
How would you sort out the Israel/Palestine conflict then? If you remember then you'll know that Israel was smaller than it is today. The Arabs started a war on Israel in 1967 and lost quite miserably and Israel gained a lot of land from it. We should just leave them at their own devices and let them sort it out themselves. Israel could quite easily wipe the Arab world out by itself.

With regards to India and Pakistan, it was written into the Indian Independence Act that Pakistan would be proclaimed a dominion. Pakistan is an islamic country, India is not, there would've been civil wars, like there was. The problem between these 2 countries, or country as it was at the time, stemmed back from the 19th century, and not because "we" created 2 different countries from 1, well 3 including Bangladesh.

I didn;t say the british caused problems now (in present day) in the former colonies, i said they caused problems back then. The creation of Israel was the problem in itself, and owes a large part of it to the British.

The british were mostly responsible for causing the heightened (i say heightened, because tensions always existed - albeit less violently) tensions and civil wars between Muslim's and Hindu's in India.

Zar

[Weeks]

Zar, as you also place your name at the end of your post.
Are you actually the alter-ego of Viao?

If so, very clever, but you should probably get out more.

Love, Weeks.