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12 Sep 2003, 16:58
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#1
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Twisted
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Down with the sickness
Posts: 2,484
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Vermillion or other smart history buff
Are there any sources on Russian/Soviet cryptography/analyis advances during ww2?
I seem to be having a problem finding any information on the period, is this due to a lack of effort on the ruskies part or a large amount of effort on the KGB's part to keep such things secret?
mucho thankos.
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Me
In my sleep I grind my teeth.
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12 Sep 2003, 17:01
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#2
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Old Man O Deh *****s
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In spelelpee land
Posts: 3,516
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Why bother encrypting Russian? No-one can read the bloody language anyway, especially the hordes of peasants living in the Urals.
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Dead_Meat
You dont need to keep beating a dog to get it to stop shitting on the carpet
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12 Sep 2003, 17:03
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#3
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Twisted
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Down with the sickness
Posts: 2,484
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dead_Meat
Why bother encrypting Russian? No-one can read the bloody language anyway, especially the hordes of peasants living in the Urals.
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I was thinking more of their breaking of German encryption, which was a rather important task given the whole 'Invading them and killing off lots of people' thingy.
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Me
In my sleep I grind my teeth.
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12 Sep 2003, 17:04
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#4
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Twisted
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Down with the sickness
Posts: 2,484
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
I can read cyrillic, and I have three friends who all speak fluent Russian.
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Well zippity-doo-f*cking-da for you*
*Plasma not Sarina.
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Me
In my sleep I grind my teeth.
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12 Sep 2003, 17:04
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#5
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Rawr rawr
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Upside down
Posts: 5,300
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
I can read cyrillic, and I have three friends who all speak fluent Russian.
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COMMUNIST!!
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12 Sep 2003, 17:06
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#6
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Old Man O Deh *****s
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In spelelpee land
Posts: 3,516
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
I can read cyrillic, and I have three friends who all speak fluent Russian.
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ARE THEY RUSSIAN BY ANY CHANCE ?*
* No, I don't care I they are or not, in fact, don't bother replying, or I'll delete you for 'smugness'. Go me.
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Dead_Meat
You dont need to keep beating a dog to get it to stop shitting on the carpet
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12 Sep 2003, 17:11
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#7
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Motherfracker
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,985
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dead_Meat
Go me.
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in that motorised old peoples scooter of yours!
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12 Sep 2003, 18:16
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#8
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Godfather
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
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i was under the impression that the british cracked the german enigma code and the americans cracked the japanese codes.
seeing as we were good 'buddies' with the uncle joe and the reds at the time it would make sense to share this information.
ive never read that they broke the code tbh.
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12 Sep 2003, 18:17
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#9
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Old Man O Deh *****s
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In spelelpee land
Posts: 3,516
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Quote:
Originally posted by JammyJim
i was under the impression that the british cracked the german enigma code and the americans cracked the japanese codes.
seeing as we were good 'buddies' with the uncle joe and the reds at the time it would make sense to share this information.
ive never read that they broke the code tbh.
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Good answer, to anything apart from Sarina's original question.
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Dead_Meat
You dont need to keep beating a dog to get it to stop shitting on the carpet
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12 Sep 2003, 18:19
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#10
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Godfather
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sarina_Joy
I was thinking more of their breaking of German encryption, which was a rather important task given the whole 'Invading them and killing off lots of people' thingy.
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read again old man.
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12 Sep 2003, 18:25
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#11
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Old Man O Deh *****s
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: In spelelpee land
Posts: 3,516
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But you still haven't answered her question, you've answered a question about what the Yanks and we did, but not what the Russkies did.
This is the type of thing that makes people fail exams.
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Dead_Meat
You dont need to keep beating a dog to get it to stop shitting on the carpet
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12 Sep 2003, 18:31
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#12
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Godfather
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
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to my knowledge they didnt
however alot of kgb documents are still classified.
everything ive ever read would suggest the west broke the codes at bletchley and a couple of sites dotted around the states.
however whilst googling this i did find out that a top secret american project codenamed 'verona' inflitrated the kgb and found they were running spies around the united states for soviet political means.
even during ww2.
its only just been declassified.
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13 Sep 2003, 03:18
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#13
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Quote:
Originally posted by JammyJim
seeing as we were good 'buddies' with the uncle joe and the reds at the time it would make sense to share this information.
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Sharing the info is (/was) not necessarily a good idea.
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On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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13 Sep 2003, 04:51
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#14
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Balneário Camboriu- Santa Catarina- Brasil
Posts: 1,004
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fact is that the only army in the world that could beat the wermarcht was the red one. singlehandly
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13 Sep 2003, 19:31
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#15
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Mack Daddy
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Imperial States of America
Posts: 151
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From everything I have heard the Soviets always tended to rely more on actual agents with "boots on the ground" than electronic espionage. They had a crack spy in the German Embassy in Japan by the name of Victor Sorge. He not only predicted the German attack on the USSR but he had a date and time as well. Stalin ignored him, then sent him to die in a penal camp when his predictions came true. They also had a spy in Switzerland that corroborated this evidence (who was also "turned into camp dust"). During the actual war years some info was relayed to Moscow from Bletchley Park. However they had the "Red Orchestra" based in Paris where they got a lot of their info from.
So to summarize the Soviets relied heavily on human intelligence supplemented by Ultra intercepts from the UK. The Soviets were always very talented when it came to secret agents (they were in about every country on the globe).
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History does not repeat itself but it does rhyme a lot.
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13 Sep 2003, 19:42
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#16
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Godfather
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
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its well known that MI6 was infiltrated by the KGB for years.
they were the best espionage service the world has ever seen.
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13 Sep 2003, 19:44
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#17
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Quote:
Originally posted by JammyJim
its well known that MI6 was infiltrated by the KGB for years.
they were the best espionage service the world has ever seen.
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What made them so good?
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On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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13 Sep 2003, 19:52
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#18
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Godfather
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
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the fact they had unlimited resources usually has something to do with it.
the way in which they operated was like the gestapo. they had more power than all the politicans combined.
NOONE messed with kgb.
they had various ways of 'extracting' information if u were caught.
Gran is hungarian and there was a kgb station near to where she lived.
Noone walked on the side of the street it was on. Noone ever looked directly at it and if you ever saw anyone being escored into it you never saw them come out again.
ruthless efficiency made them the best.
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13 Sep 2003, 19:54
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#19
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so f*cking zen
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Hitting Bottom
Posts: 8,499
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Quote:
Originally posted by JammyJim
ruthless efficiency made them the best.
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What about suprise?
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On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
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13 Sep 2003, 19:55
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#20
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Godfather
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
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:duh:
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14 Sep 2003, 11:57
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#21
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cynic
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Bishop Auckland Co. Durham
Posts: 8,809
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Quote:
Originally posted by Muslim
fact is that the only army in the world that could beat the wermarcht was the red one. singlehandly
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eeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrr no.
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lazy
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14 Sep 2003, 16:51
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#22
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Ajaj Kapten!
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 638
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Then wich could?
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14 Sep 2003, 22:45
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#23
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Prince of Amber
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,313
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Quote:
Originally posted by Muslim
singlehandly
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You would be funny if you really believed that, troll.
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14 Sep 2003, 22:47
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#24
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Godfather
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
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its all to do with political will not the size of the army.
therefore the reds wouldve been able to do it but the americans wouldve suffered from 'war wearyness'.
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14 Sep 2003, 23:13
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#25
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Prince of Amber
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,313
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Quote:
Originally posted by JammyJim
its all to do with political will not the size of the army.
therefore the reds wouldve been able to do it but the americans wouldve suffered from 'war wearyness'.
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You are funny, too. Do you just make up this stuff, or do you extrapolate 21st century attitudes to determine what might have happened in the mid-20th century?
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14 Sep 2003, 23:30
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#26
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Godfather
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 5,185
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politics does not change.
if there is no political will then something cannot happen.
The soviet system was set up in a way in which political will was the will of the state because the state was the people. The state was represented by the politburo. Therefore Politburo = State = Political Will.
In america the democratic system itself undermines the willingness to goto war for an extended time. Take vietnam as a prime example.
it is termed 'war wearyness' and has been around for centuries.
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16 Sep 2003, 21:40
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#27
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Balneário Camboriu- Santa Catarina- Brasil
Posts: 1,004
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Quote:
Originally posted by JammyJim
politics does not change.
if there is no political will then something cannot happen.
The soviet system was set up in a way in which political will was the will of the state because the state was the people. The state was represented by the politburo. Therefore Politburo = State = Political Will.
In america the democratic system itself undermines the willingness to goto war for an extended time. Take vietnam as a prime example.
it is termed 'war wearyness' and has been around for centuries.
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"afeghanistan"
yet it was in a critical time of the sovjets, perestroika and glasnost on their way, economical and political mess...but nevertheless....war wearyness all over the red ones
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