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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 10:19   #1
Ärketrollmannen
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Militant

Ponder this:

What if a group (6-7 people) well armed and equipped with pistols, automatic weapons and bulletproof vests just decided to tour the country and then dissapear, they have no scruokes so they fire at the smallest danger to them and they know how to use their weapons.

What can the law enforcement in your country do?

They might be travelling in a stolen Humvee or smilar, maybe a vehichle modified by themselves. Bulletproof and with good tires.

What can be done? What is allowed and what do you propose SHOULD be ok to do?


(Pardon my English, as I read through it I am actually embarrased)
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 10:27   #2
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Yanks would probably have Cygnet or MKULTRA after them.

Here in Finland, though, it'd prolly be delegated to the Military police, I guess they have some heavy weaponry for such situations.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 10:30   #3
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Did I misread, or do you mean that they drive around the country doing nothing to anyone that isnt threatening them?

If so, nothing should be 'done to them'. Why should it?
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 10:40   #4
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if i didnt missread this you mean they drive around and shoot at random people?
we have some special anti-terror-force here (since that incident in munich 1972). im pretty sure they can handle such things.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 10:42   #5
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Impossible to get that equipment in my country
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 10:44   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
we have some special anti-terror-force here (since that incident in munich 1972). im pretty sure they can handle such things.
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Quote:
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 10:46   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Proteus
GSG-9
yes, thats them
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 11:23   #8
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The SAS could always sort them out if things got that desperate. Those guys rock .
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 11:24   #9
Ärketrollmannen
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Oh **** me, I something happened in the original post there.

I meant tour the country robbing banks and people.

Well sorry folks.

Anyway.

I wrote it in Swedish a while ago and just translated it in my head, and not a very good translation either.

Next time I will write in English from the beginning
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 11:35   #10
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The SAS have close connections with Superman, he would help them out.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 11:35   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
Yes but what if they were these guys:


"In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit.These men promptly escaped a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team."

They would piss all over the SAS.
I pity the poor fools who would have to take on the A-Team

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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 11:43   #12
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but the a-team never kills anyone, so they are not much of a threat
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 11:48   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue
Admittedly not, but even if the SAS caught them they would be able to manufacture a tank out of the debris in their makeshift prison, thus escaping again. Also it would take the SAS a while to recover from the jury rigged potato cannon.

Perhaps the only person who may be able to stop the A-Team is McGuyver.
If MyGuyver and the A-Team got together no 2 bit hood holding a small town of inbreds to ransom would be safe

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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 11:58   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue


Perhaps the only person who may be able to stop the A-Team is McGuyver.
Scottish funeral directors?
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 12:00   #15
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endokuken, in wich country do you live?

I cannot imagine a country were there would be impossible to get a hold of firearms.

What are your opinions?

How many people could get hurt if for example the SAS decided to kill them (blowing the cars up?)
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 12:14   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ärketrollmannen
endokuken, in wich country do you live?

I cannot imagine a country were there would be impossible to get a hold of firearms.
Its impossible for potential criminals to get hold of firearms if you have strict enough laws banning their sale.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 12:27   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
Its impossible for potential criminals to get hold of firearms if you have strict enough laws banning their sale.
Here in Sweden we have among the "best" laws concerning that area in the world.

If you are a hunter you can have a scoped rifle, but then you have to have a licence at every gun etc.

It is still break-ins at military facilities, gunsmuggling from other countries etc.

It is not realistic to believe that we can get all guns off the hands of the criminals
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 12:43   #18
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Exclamation

I clicked on this thread on the assumption that it was concerned with 1980's Labour Party internal politics.




I'll see you in court.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 12:47   #19
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Exclamation

btw, the same thing happened in Belgium once. I think it was in the late 80's. There was a group that went around the country just robbing and basically smashing up small convienience shops and the like. I think they basically just smashed things up, and actually hardly ever stole any money, and when they did, it was a ridiculously small amount.

They were never caught.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 13:10   #20
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Re: Militant

Quote:
Originally posted by Ärketrollmannen
Ponder this:

What if a group (6-7 people) well armed and equipped with pistols, automatic weapons and bulletproof vests just decided to tour the country and then dissapear, they have no scruokes so they fire at the smallest danger to them and they know how to use their weapons.

What can the law enforcement in your country do?


I don't know but can I join the gun toting group pretty please?
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 13:18   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ärketrollmannen
endokuken, in wich country do you live?

I cannot imagine a country were there would be impossible to get a hold of firearms.

What are your opinions?

How many people could get hurt if for example the SAS decided to kill them (blowing the cars up?)

Automatic firearms are impossible to get, semi-auto's very hard, pistol's not as hard. Bullet-proof vests aren't found near civvies, and Humm-vees are a no-no.

The only way it would happen is some army dudes go renegade, then we call in Captain Havoc
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 13:43   #22
Ärketrollmannen
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wich country?
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 13:51   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Toccata & Fugue

Perhaps the only person who may be able to stop the A-Team is McGuyver.

But mcguyver doesnt like shooting people he never uses guns, and the A-Team are impossible to shoot i can only remember someone getting a flesh wound every 10 episodes and 10,000 bullets. Plus the A-Team are like impossible to find in the cool hardcore black/grey van with distinctive red strip.



And anyway the A team has MrT


Mr T > *
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 13:55   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
I clicked on this thread on the assumption that it was concerned with 1980's Labour Party internal politics.




I'll see you in court.
the what?
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Godwin's Law prov. [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 13:56   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by endokuken
Automatic firearms are impossible to get
Impossible is a ridiculously strong word.

France:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2846401.stm

UK :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2334135.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1462650.stm
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...028426,00.html

Just as a couple of examples of articles which mention the use (or posession) of automatic weapons.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 14:04   #26
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if you live in north america you can most likely get everything you want.
if you live in europe, there is russia and the former eastern block,they have LOTS of all kinds of weapons. if you live somewhere else, theres probably a country with war / civil war or militant dictatorship around and you can get some weapons there.
you can make it hard to get such weapons, but impossible is impossible
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 14:09   #27
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Re: Re: Militant

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Originally posted by Sarina_Joy
I don't know but can I join the gun toting group pretty please?
With your aim you'd probably be more of a danger to the armed group than any bystanders
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 15:02   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
btw, the same thing happened in Belgium once. I think it was in the late 80's. There was a group that went around the country just robbing and basically smashing up small convienience shops and the like. I think they basically just smashed things up, and actually hardly ever stole any money, and when they did, it was a ridiculously small amount.

They were never caught.
They shot themselves free everytime?
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 16:04   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
btw, the same thing happened in Belgium once. I think it was in the late 80's. There was a group that went around the country just robbing and basically smashing up small convienience shops and the like. I think they basically just smashed things up, and actually hardly ever stole any money, and when they did, it was a ridiculously small amount.

They were never caught.
You know your history well...they were called 'de bende van nijvel' translated 'the gang of nijvel'. nijvel is a city in the french speaking part of belgium, where they robbed there first supermarket, killed a lot of ppl in the process :| .
the trouble with this whole incident is that it was never fully investigated because 'hearsay' says a lot of political games were played arond them...read they were ordered to start havoc....why? cause the ppl who where in charge at the time wanted to decrease the military and policeforce....and with these lunatics around they ad a good excuse in getting more funds...well thats how the story goes anyway...they did caught one or two ppl involved, but they were never fully prosecuted as they died 'commited suicide' in jail...which is what they wanted us to think ;-) ..... belgium is a nice place really :P
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 18:08   #30
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I think a few men (10 maybe) whit AG3's and a grenade launcher or two could take them out.

I belive the military had been sent after them, or some special group of police, but i don't think we have much of that. (Only thing i can think of offhand is Catch, at least in the case of robberies and such, but i doubt they are that "hardcore").
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 18:26   #31
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Im fairly sure that its illegal to perform military operations on civlians even if theyre armed.

Thats why you dont see tanks patrolling the streets. It has to be a police operation. Hence things like SWAT.

Military only deal with terrorism. These guys are just armed to the teeth bankrobbers?

SO

ID call out SWAT



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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 18:29   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snurx
I think a few men (10 maybe) whit AG3's and a grenade launcher or two could take them out.

I belive the military had been sent after them, or some special group of police, but i don't think we have much of that. (Only thing i can think of offhand is Catch, at least in the case of robberies and such, but i doubt they are that "hardcore").
Politiets beredskapstropp...

Basically, any country with a decent police force has a special swat unit.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 18:31   #33
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i read in some army book that were popular in the mid to late 90s that in britain at least the army can and has been deployed against civlilans, i think churchill even did it, and iirc from this book i cant remember the sas has been used to end some prison seiges. Its because the UK doesnt have a para military police force, we have armed officers, but no equivalent to swat, i think in those circumstances they just call the army in. That Heathrow example a ew months back is a case in point, when they thought there was a terrorist threat they didnt call in a heavily armed police force, they just deployed the army.


If the shít hits the fan the goverment can use the army against us
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 18:34   #34
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they have to pass a special bill to get it done tho.


Do you really think that a country like the UK doesnt have a SWAT type team?

SWAT is merely 'Special Weapons and Tactics'. Im sure we have our own version.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 18:35   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by JammyJim
they have to pass a special bill to get it done tho.


Do you really think that a country like the UK doesnt have a SWAT type team?

SWAT is merely 'Special Weapons and Tactics'. Im sure we have our own version.
im pretty sure we dont


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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 18:41   #36
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not explicit but does suggest it


http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sta...ime/police.stm


Quote:
There is no doubt that in recent years people in Britain have become more used to seeing police officers carrying guns. The weapons are a visible deterrent to terrorists at airports like Heathrow, and attract little comment when carried by officers mounting guard on major trials at the Old Bailey. Almost every force now has armed response vehicles, ready to go to the scene of a robbery or siege.

But it is still a world away from the US, where the armed police officer is a fact of life, and most forces have paramilitary-style SWAT teams on call for major incidents.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 19:37   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by endokuken
Impossible to get that equipment in my country
would you please be a nice guy and tell us what kind of pansy country do you live in?
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 21:51   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by W
Politiets beredskapstropp...

Basically, any country with a decent police force has a special swat unit.
Oh, so they do other things than beating up poor Blitzers?

Actually, i had no idea they did that kind of stuff. Shows how much i know about the norwegian police

Hey endokuken, i also wonder what country you live in. Even in poor old norway, im sure i would be able to get almost anything, if i had the money and the connections.
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 23:43   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nusselt
im pretty sure we dont


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All police forces have armed response units. That's pretty much the same as SWAT isn't it ?
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Unread 3 Sep 2003, 23:53   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hicks
All police forces have armed response units. That's pretty much the same as SWAT isn't it ?
nah armed responce units stay behind their cars and shout

'STOP OR ILL SHOOT'

at which point they shoot anyway.


SWAT as is implied in the link i posted is a paramilitary force, its a 'third way' option between the police and the military, armed police are policemen that are armed, ok they have rapid responce units but they're still essentially police units on active patrol. SWAT is used as a third way in which heavier weapons and equipment can be used by the police. In britain we'd just call the army out - ultimately under civilian control - but the army none the less.

I think in america you need a state of emergancy in the said state to get the national guard in, and iirc in germany the army wasnt even allowed to intervene in the '72 olympics, thats why the german police fcked it up. Now they do have a paramilitary police force, im not sure if the rule regarding the army is still in force though.

It was 1910 btw when churchill sent in the army against striking miners.
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 00:06   #41
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we have them police type bods who hang about the airports i seen them when i'm going on my hols to button moon.

they have like body armour on and carry machine guns, and its not just since 9/11 either they've always being there(international airports anyway)

and for the most part the uk gov just deploys the army any if things get hairy

and i think the police have the counter-terrorist police
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 00:16   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deathjam
we have them police type bods who hang about the airports i seen them when i'm going on my hols to button moon.

they have like body armour on and carry machine guns, and its not just since 9/11 either they've always being there(international airports anyway)
yeah but they're just armed policemen all police are given body armour its just those ones have guns and they've always been there because certain irish individuals arent as friendly towards the british as mr JBG in the last few decades

Quote:
Originally posted by Deathjam

and for the most part the uk gov just deploys the army any if things get hairy

and i think the police have the counter-terrorist police
im not sure but i think the counter-terrorist are essentially intelligence based, ie they link up with MI5/6 and everyone else and try and find whats going on, then they'll call in the normal police to go and help arrest someone.


We've never really needed a thirdway because we dont have as much of a gun crime problem than say in america where SWAT is needed and calling out the army all the time would be troublesome, nor do we have an issue with using the army against civilians. We basically dont need SWAT, armed police are enough for most things, if not get the army. In america they need a heavier option, and in europe i suppose they dont like seeing the army deployed on the streets (as i said im sure theres a law regarding the german armys ability to intefere in civilian life or enter the capital or cities or something - can somone german confirm or tell me more?)
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 00:18   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nusselt
and iirc in germany the army wasnt even allowed to intervene in the '72 olympics, thats why the german police fcked it up. Now they do have a paramilitary police force, im not sure if the rule regarding the army is still in force though.
thats right, although i have no doubt the army would have ****ed it up just as much as the police did. the parliament is not allowed to use the army for anything within the country (except shooting teh evil russians that is).
they are trying to change that law for a while now though, they want to use the army to protect such things as transports of nuclear waste (and to protect us from the evil terrorists ofc.), but ill doubt theyll ever get though with that.
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 00:39   #44
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Road block.
If they leave the van to remove the road block- sniper them.
Else they'll just run out of food and get fed up.
It's not really a huge challenge. Too small for the SAS i reckon.
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 03:00   #45
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To answer the original posters question :

The men would be unstoppable.

If they truly have the resources you said,

They would simply blow thru anything, and would shoot thru any person.

Well trained men are immensly difficult to stop.

Case in point : ancient battle of Thermoplyae.

1,000,000 Persians lost 20,000 yet still failed to disarm just 300 Spartans.
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 03:38   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by QazokRouge5
To answer the original posters question :

The men would be unstoppable.

If they truly have the resources you said,

They would simply blow thru anything, and would shoot thru any person.
What about a REALLY BIG road block?
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 03:44   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by QazokRouge5
To answer the original posters question :

The men would be unstoppable.

If they truly have the resources you said,

They would simply blow thru anything, and would shoot thru any person.

Well trained men are immensly difficult to stop.

Wrong. Send in 20 equally trained men with government backing and bam, they're done for. The government will obviously have more resources then 6-7 guys, so its not at all impossible to stop them.
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 03:54   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by QazokRouge5
To answer the original posters question :

The men would be unstoppable.

If they truly have the resources you said,

They would simply blow thru anything, and would shoot thru any person.

Well trained men are immensly difficult to stop.
Where were you with your expert advice when the silly yanks were fighting their little silly vietnam war?

'Put some well-trained men in a car and give them guns.. gaaaawwdd... they'd be unstoppable, why didn't we think of that?!' - imaginery quote from high-ranking general after you advised them on the finer points of how to kill people.
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 04:27   #49
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally posted by QazokRouge5
To answer the original posters question :

The men would be unstoppable.

If they truly have the resources you said,

They would simply blow thru anything, and would shoot thru any person.

Well trained men are immensly difficult to stop.
Heh. I think one Apache helicopter trumps the Humvee filled with well-trained/-armed men.
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Unread 4 Sep 2003, 06:53   #50
Ärketrollmannen
Ajaj Kapten!
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sweden
Posts: 638
Ärketrollmannen is just really niceÄrketrollmannen is just really niceÄrketrollmannen is just really niceÄrketrollmannen is just really niceÄrketrollmannen is just really nice
Quote:
Originally posted by Snurx
I think a few men (10 maybe) whit AG3's and a grenade launcher or two could take them out.

I belive the military had been sent after them, or some special group of police, but i don't think we have much of that. (Only thing i can think of offhand is Catch, at least in the case of robberies and such, but i doubt they are that "hardcore").
Wich country do you live in?

And what is Catch?

And AG3's?

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