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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 13:56   #1
Marilyn Manson
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Exclamation Democracy is bad for society
Discuss.
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 13:57   #2
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Re: Democracy is bad for society
Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
Discuss.
agreed.
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 14:00   #3
Grimble
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society is bad for democracy
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 14:00   #4
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Theoretically.
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 14:02   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grimble
society is bad for democracy
We can fix that by calling one somocracy and the other deciety, and pretending one means the other and vice versa.

Fixed.
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 14:42   #6
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so is every other political system, where's your point?
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 14:42   #7
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Throwaway statement:

It allows idiots to decide who governs them.
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 15:00   #8
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Re: Democracy is bad for society
Quote:
Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
Discuss.
just cuz it tends to lead to tyranny.

if you have an informed public (no check)

and there is a well-balanced system (check)

and the middle class is the strongest (I actually agree with Aristotle on this one:/) (check)

then you are okay (there might be other requirements too).

for us #1 never existed, #2 is temporarily out of order, and for #3 they are rapidly in the process of giving their power away:/

oh well.
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 15:00   #9
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democracy is good for society

it is bad for government

wahoo!
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 15:52   #10
Starbucks
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A Person is smart, people are stupid

therfore democracy by definition is stupid
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 16:02   #11
acropolis
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Quote:
Originally posted by Starbucks
A Person is smart, people are stupid

therfore democracy by definition is stupid
but then person would tend to smartly do whatever was good for person.

people would do what they thought was good for people. stupidly.

which isn't significantly worse for them.
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 16:55   #12
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yeah, ****ing crap **** ****er ****

(that's for MM)


Democracy, like nearly all politics and ideals, they sound good and commendable but they're usually ****e and flawed enough to **** up the good parts of it.
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 17:00   #13
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Re: Re: Democracy is bad for society
Quote:
Originally posted by acropolis
just cuz it tends to lead to tyranny.

if you have an informed public (no check)
.
The problem with systems that rely on a "well informed public" is that if the public were sufficiently "informed". they would generally reject the proposed system in the first place (either because it is an outright "bad system", or because it is redundant if the public are sufficiently intelligent).
Last edited by Nodrog; 25 Feb 2003 at 17:09.
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Unread 25 Feb 2003, 17:12   #14
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Re: Re: Re: Democracy is bad for society
Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
The problem with systems that rely on a "well informed public" is that if the public were sufficiently "informed". they would generally reject the proposed system in the first place (either because it is an outright "bad system", or because it is redundant if the public are sufficiently intelligent).
valid, unfortunately there is no indication of any system that will function well without an informed public.

so the best you can do is to create one that doesn't specifically make things worse without such a public, i.e., one with checks and balances.

your informed public, who have no such need of such a system, will be intelligent enough to foresee the possibility that for whatever reason a future public might not be as wise as they. and they will develop institutions that will prevent those ignorant pugs from really ****ing up the world.
Quote:
Originally posted by Nodrog
A system that is fundamentally incompatable with humanity is a "bad system", no matter how good it looks on paper. Surely reality is the final arbiter when it comes to defining the worth of a proposed social model, rather than how it sounds theoretically?
noting your insistence on function in reality,

one would assume you would give examples from reality to demonstrate whatever point you were making.

how wrong one would be.

ps: i agree that systems that turn out to be **** when they are used aren't good systems. i think you had a larger point though.
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